NEWSFLASH: Abraham was not a Jew. Neither was Isaac. Neither was Jacob.

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Eternally Grateful

Well-Known Member
Feb 27, 2020
15,024
8,385
113
58
Columbus, ohio
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Yes, still in effect in Christ.

You're welcome.

Not in land for Israel, which appears nowhere in the New Will/Testament.
It would not appear anything, It has nothing to do with the new covenant or the new testament. the new testament is about the salvation of the world. Not restoring Israel to her land.
Do you find it impossible to type the word "Testament"?
why would I need to worry about that?

Matthew 26:28

For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Covenant - greek diathekes -a covenant, an arrangement, a treaty, a law. a legal provision, a testament.

1 Corinthians 11:25
In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.”

Why are you stuck on words?
 

WalterandDebbie

Well-Known Member
Dec 14, 2009
4,581
3,193
113
77
USA
firstthings1sttab.tripod.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
This post was placed up long before I ever read anything you said, so if you thought it was in response to something you said, relax. It was in response to the squabble between others that I saw taking place in many threads. Which ended up between me and those who hate what I said in this OP also. It's not an uplifting thread.​
I understand
 
  • Like
Reactions: Zao is life

covenantee

Well-Known Member
Feb 22, 2022
4,722
1,919
113
73
Canada
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
the new testament is about the salvation of the world. Not restoring Israel to her land.
Of course. So that, which was in the old will/testament, no longer appears in the New Will/Testament, and is thus null and void under the principles of operation of wills/testaments.
why would I need to worry about that?

Matthew 26:28

King James Version

28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.


I wouldn't want you to worry.
 
Last edited:

Zao is life

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2020
3,193
1,256
113
Africa
zaoislife.blogspot.com
Faith
Christian
Country
South Africa
Hello Fullness of the Gentiles, Yes, you are correct, checking different sources from Bing

Abraham was not born a Jew. He was born in Ur of the Chaldees, which is now modern-day Iraq However, he is considered the founding father of the Jewish nation in Judaism. In Christianity, he is the spiritual progenitor of all believers, whether Jewish or non-Jewish In Islam, he is a link in the chain of Islamic prophets that begins with Adam and culminates in Muhammad.
Just to add to the above: The above statement in the encylopdedias of the world regarding what religion believes regarding Abraham makes no difference. It's what God believes regarding Abraham that matters. I'm sure you would agree to that.
 
Last edited:

Eternally Grateful

Well-Known Member
Feb 27, 2020
15,024
8,385
113
58
Columbus, ohio
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Of course. So that, which was in the old will/testament, no longer appears in the New Will/Testament, and is thus null and void under the principles of operation of wills/testaments.
No, it’s not null and void. Because the NT does nto replace it or have anythign to do with it.

the abrahamic covenant as a whole is still valid today.


Matthew 26:28

King James Version

28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.


I wouldn't want you to worry.
Why would I worry. Covenant or testament fit perfectly well there. The greek word can be translated both ways

again, why are you stuck on words?
 

Eternally Grateful

Well-Known Member
Feb 27, 2020
15,024
8,385
113
58
Columbus, ohio
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Just to add to the above: The above statement in the encylopdedias of the world regarding what religion believes regarding Abraham makes no difference. It's what God believes regarding Abraham that matters.
Romans 4 tells us that whoever had the same faith Abraham will also be saved as Abraham was. As David said, blessed is the man with whome God will not impute sin, It is far batter if God imputes to us righteousness like he did Abraham.

No matter who we are in the world, Jew or Gentile We can have that same righteousness Abraham had. And be secure in our knowledge We are Gods child.
 

Zao is life

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2020
3,193
1,256
113
Africa
zaoislife.blogspot.com
Faith
Christian
Country
South Africa
Of course. So that, which was in the old will/testament, no longer appears in the New Will/Testament, and is thus null and void under the principles of operation of wills/testaments.

Matthew 26:28

King James Version

28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.


I wouldn't want you to worry.
1. Abrahamic Covenant: Unconditional and eternal. Unsolicited by Abraham, and depends only upon God's faithfulness. Was made 430 years before the law - Galatians 3:17-18. It was sealed by God's oath - Hebrews 6:16-18.

2. Covenant of law. Conditional an temporary. Ratified by blood, and depended equally on the faithfulness of the people, who promised to obey, as it did upon God's faithfulness. Broken by Israel.

3. Davidic Covenant. Unconditional and eternal. Promising the eternity of David's royal family line. Depends only on God's faithfulness.

4. The New Covenant. Ratified by blood (the blood of Christ). Unconditional and eternal, and replaces the second covenant (the covenant of law). Fulfills the promises contained in the Abrahamic Covenant and the Davidic Covenant. Faith in the Word of God like Abraham had is needed to inherit the blessings it contains. Jesus is the Word of God.

There are not only two Testaments (Covenants). The New Testament does not replace the Abrahamic Covenant, or the Davidic Covenant. It fulfills the promises contained in both, and the fulfillment of the promises are through Christ.

Whether the restoration of the house of Israel (now all Gentiles in Christ) and the house of Judah (Jews in Christ) to the land of their fathers will take place in the new heavens and new earth (Amillennialism), or a millennial Kingdom of Christ (Pe Millennialism), is a matter of debate. But how many covenants (Testaments) there are, is not subject to Christian debate.

The actual promises contained in the Abrahamic Covenant cannot be debated, but how the promises are fulfilled is for the jury to conclude on, and the jury will never agree before Jesus comes back.
 

Eternally Grateful

Well-Known Member
Feb 27, 2020
15,024
8,385
113
58
Columbus, ohio
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
1. Abrahamic Covenant: Unconditional and eternal. Unsolicited by Abraham, and depends only upon God's faithfulness. Was made 430 years before the law - Galatians 3:17-18. It was sealed by God's oath - Hebrews 6:16-18.

2. Covenant of law. Conditional an temporary. Ratified by blood, and depended equally on the faithfulness of the people, who promised to obey, as it did upon God's faithfulness. Broken by Israel.

3. Davidic Covenant. Unconditional and eternal. Promising the eternity of David's royal family line. Depends only on God's faithfulness.

4. The New Covenant. Ratified by blood (the blood of Christ). Unconditional and eternal, and replaces the second covenant (the covenant of law). Fulfills the promises contained in the Abrahamic Covenant and the Davidic Covenant. Faith in the Word of God like Abraham had is needed to inherit the blessings it contains. Jesus is the Word of God.

There are not only two Testaments (Covenants). The New Testament does not replace the Abrahamic Covenant, or the Davidic Covenant. It fulfills the promises contained in both, and the fulfillment of the promises are through Christ.
Agree 100 % to here
Whether the restoration of the house of Israel (now all Gentiles in Christ) and the house of Judah (Jews in Christ) to the land of their fathers will take place in the new heavens and new earth (Amillennialism), or a millennial Kingdom of Christ (Pe Millennialism), is a matter of debate. But how many covenants (Testaments) there are, is not subject to Christian debate.
Here is where we can not agree

The house of Israel is NOT the gentiles. It is the house of Israel. Or the northern kingdom which was scattered according to Gods warning in Lev 26

The house of Judah is the house of the southern kingdom. Of who was scattered according to the warning Lev 26 twice. Once when Nebachadnezar destroyed the city and temple. and the other when Titus destroyed the temple and city in AD 70.

God told the people.

Jeremiah 30:3

For behold, the days are coming,’ says the Lord, ‘that I will bring back from captivity My people Israel and Judah,’ says the Lord. ‘And I will cause them to return to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they shall possess it.’ ”

Jeremiah 33:14

‘Behold, the days are coming,’ says the Lord, ‘that I will perform that good thing which I have promised to the house of Israel and to the house of Judah:

Isaiah 11:12

He will set up a banner for the nations, And will assemble the outcasts of Israel, And gather together the dispersed of Judah From the four corners of the earth.

Ezekiel 37:19-22

say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Surely I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel, his companions; and I will join them with it, with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they will be one in My hand.” ’21 “Then say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Surely I will take the children of Israel from among the nations, wherever they have gone, and will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land; 22 and I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king over them all; they shall no longer be two nations, nor shall they ever be divided into two kingdoms again.



The actual promises contained in the Abrahamic Covenant cannot be debated, but how the promises are fulfilled is for the jury to conclude on, and the jury will never agree before Jesus comes back.
If the promise of salvation to all nations of the world are continuing to be fulfilled today. So are all the promises.. They are not done.

Saying that one part of the promise is done, and the other is no longer valid is as bad as saying the parts of Jesus first advent is literal. the parts of the second coming and reign on earth is spiritual (it will nto happen, it is fulfilled in the church, Jesus is ruling now etc etc.
 

covenantee

Well-Known Member
Feb 22, 2022
4,722
1,919
113
73
Canada
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
1. Abrahamic Covenant: Unconditional and eternal. Unsolicited by Abraham, and depends only upon God's faithfulness. Was made 430 years before the law - Galatians 3:17-18. It was sealed by God's oath - Hebrews 6:16-18.

2. Covenant of law. Conditional an temporary. Ratified by blood, and depended equally on the faithfulness of the people, who promised to obey, as it did upon God's faithfulness. Broken by Israel.

3. Davidic Covenant. Unconditional and eternal. Promising the eternity of David's royal family line. Depends only on God's faithfulness.

4. The New Covenant. Ratified by blood (the blood of Christ). Unconditional and eternal, and replaces the second covenant (the covenant of law). Fulfills the promises contained in the Abrahamic Covenant and the Davidic Covenant. Faith in the Word of God like Abraham had is needed to inherit the blessings it contains. Jesus is the Word of God.

There are not only two Testaments (Covenants). The New Testament does not replace the Abrahamic Covenant, or the Davidic Covenant. It fulfills the promises contained in both, and the fulfillment of the promises are through Christ.

Whether the restoration of the house of Israel (now all Gentiles in Christ) and the house of Judah (Jews in Christ) to the land of their fathers will take place in the new heavens and new earth (Amillennialism), or a millennial Kingdom of Christ (Pe Millennialism), is a matter of debate. But how many covenants (Testaments) there are, is not subject to Christian debate.

The actual promises contained in the Abrahamic Covenant cannot be debated, but how the promises are fulfilled is for the jury to conclude on, and the jury will never agree before Jesus comes back.
The Abrahamic et al covenants are testamentary promises and bequests under a set of covers called the Old Testament.

A New Testament completely replaces an old testament and all of its promises and bequests under the principles of operation of wills and testaments. This is seen in the first clause of your own will and testament, and dates back to jurisprudence established in ancient Biblical times.

Christ is the complete fulfillment and replacement of all old testament promises and bequests. 2 Corinthians 1:20
 

Eternally Grateful

Well-Known Member
Feb 27, 2020
15,024
8,385
113
58
Columbus, ohio
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The Abrahamic et al covenants are testamentary promises and bequests under a set of covers called the Old Testament.

A New Testament completely replaces an old testament and all of its promises and bequests under the principles of operation of wills and testaments. This is seen in the first clause of your own will and testament, and dates back to jurisprudence established in ancient Biblical times.

Christ is the complete fulfillment and replacement of all old testament promises and bequests. 2 Corinthians 1:20
Abrahams promise was eternal.

As is Gods promise to David

The NT does not replace those promises..
 

covenantee

Well-Known Member
Feb 22, 2022
4,722
1,919
113
73
Canada
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Abrahams promise was eternal.

As is Gods promise to David

The NT does not replace those promises..
An NT replaces an OT.

That's how wills/testaments work.

Hebrews 9 makes it clear that the NT is a will/testament, hence the name New Testament.

There is nothing for unbelieving national Israel in the New Testament.
 

Eternally Grateful

Well-Known Member
Feb 27, 2020
15,024
8,385
113
58
Columbus, ohio
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
An NT replaces an OT.
No

the new covenant purchased with blood, replaces the old covenant which could not save anyone.

The ot was about Gods dealing with Israel. the NT is about the church
That's how wills/testaments work.

Hebrews 9 makes it clear that the NT is a will/testament, hence the name New Testament.

There is nothing for unbelieving national Israel in the New Testament.
Heb 9: 16 For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. 17 For a testament is in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives. 18 Therefore not even the first was dedicated without blood. 19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and goats, with water, scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book itself and all the people, 20 saying, “This is the blood of the covenant which God has commanded you.” 21 Then likewise he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle and all the vessels of the ministry. 22 And according to the law almost all things are [h]purified with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no [i]remission.

Nice try, This is talking about the old covenant or testament (the law of Moses) dedicated with the blood of bulls and goats,

and a better new testament/covenant dedicated with the blood of Christ.
 

Eternally Grateful

Well-Known Member
Feb 27, 2020
15,024
8,385
113
58
Columbus, ohio
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
An NT replaces an OT.

That's how wills/testaments work.

Hebrews 9 makes it clear that the NT is a will/testament, hence the name New Testament.

There is nothing for unbelieving national Israel in the New Testament.
so, if the whole nation of Israel repented and received Christ

Your saying God would not remember his covenant with Abraham and return them to their land?
 

Zao is life

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2020
3,193
1,256
113
Africa
zaoislife.blogspot.com
Faith
Christian
Country
South Africa
The Abrahamic et al covenants are testamentary promises and bequests under a set of covers called the Old Testament.
This is false. If it were true then we have no promise made to Abraham's seed, who are heirs according to the promise contained in the Abrahamic Covenant:

Galatians 3
29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise.

It's the promise made to Abraham in the Abrahamic Covenant that is being referred to, that you say has been replaced.

If what you say were true, then it would not matter whose seed we are, and we would not be heirs according to the promise made to Abraham.

@covenantee The first testament below is talking about the Mosaic Covenant of Law only:

13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
18 Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.

But praise God, we are heirs of the promise contained in the everlasting Abrahamic Covenant, and because God swore by oath when He made the promise to Abraham, we have strong consolation:

Hebrews 15
16 For men truly swear by the greater, and an oath for confirmation is to them an end of all strife.
17 In this way desiring to declare more fully to the heirs of promise the immutability of His counsel, God interposed by an oath,
18 so that by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us,
19 which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and steadfast, and which enters into that within the veil,
20 where the Forerunner has entered for us, even Jesus, having become a high priest forever after the order of Melchizedek.

Without the everlasting covenant to Abraham it would not even matter that Jesus is the promised seed of Abraham through whom all nations of the earth are blessed, and it would not even matter that God promised king David that his throne would remain in one of his descendants forever.

That promise to king David is also based on the everlasting Abrahamic Covenant.

You are indeed making an error by failing to know the distinction between a covenant and a will.

The Old Testament = the Mosaic Covenant/covenant of law. No other covenant.

A New Testament completely replaces an old testament and all of its promises and bequests under the principles of operation of wills and testaments. This is seen in the first clause of your own will and testament, and dates back to jurisprudence established in ancient Biblical times.

Christ is the complete fulfillment and replacement of all old testament promises and bequests. 2 Corinthians 1:20
 
Last edited:

Zao is life

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2020
3,193
1,256
113
Africa
zaoislife.blogspot.com
Faith
Christian
Country
South Africa
An NT replaces an OT.

That's how wills/testaments work.

Hebrews 9 makes it clear that the NT is a will/testament, hence the name New Testament.

There is nothing for unbelieving national Israel in the New Testament.
There aren't only two covenants. Only one of the first three covenants was replaced.

The only reason why Israel continued to exist in the believing remnant of the natural branches as a nation is because the Abrahamic Covenant still stands. That's the Olive tree.
 

covenantee

Well-Known Member
Feb 22, 2022
4,722
1,919
113
73
Canada
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
You are indeed making an error by failing to know the distinction between a covenant and a will.
I've been consistently emphasizing that distinction. The error arises from those denying that the NT promises are a will, of which Christ and those in Christ are the heirs.
 

Zao is life

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2020
3,193
1,256
113
Africa
zaoislife.blogspot.com
Faith
Christian
Country
South Africa
I've been consistently emphasizing that distinction. The error arises from those denying that the NT promises are a will, of which Christ and those in Christ are the heirs.
Nope. We are heirs of the Abrahamic Covenant through the New Covenant in Christ's blood and in which the covenant of law was abolished in His flesh.

We are the seed of Abraham. You want to abolish that everlasting promise with the Old Testament of law. But you cannot.

@covenantee Christ is the seed of Abraham.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Eternally Grateful

covenantee

Well-Known Member
Feb 22, 2022
4,722
1,919
113
73
Canada
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
There aren't only two covenants. Only one of the first three covenants was replaced.
The covenants are the promises and bequests of the testaments. They are not themselves wills/testaments. They don't appear alone in separate sections of Scripture entitled e.g. Abrahamic Testament, Davidic Testament.

There are only two wills/testaments, the old and the New. The New replaces the old.

That's how wills/testaments work.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Reggie Belafonte

covenantee

Well-Known Member
Feb 22, 2022
4,722
1,919
113
73
Canada
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Nope. We are heirs of the Abrahamic Covenant through the New Covenant in Christ's blood and in which the covenant of law was abolished in His flesh.

We are the seed of Abraham. You want to abolish that everlasting promise with the Old Testament of law. But you cannot.

@covenantee Christ is the seed of Abraham.
Is the NT a will?