John 6 and the bread from heaven

[Eternally Grateful]

It does nourish us, Spiritually.

When you do what Jesus tells you to do and believe him when he says it IS his body you stay alive SPIRITUALLY!

When you reject what Jesus tells you to do and don't believe what he says you Spiritually DIE!

Are you the former or the latter?

Where does it say in John 6 about rejecting what Jesus tells you to do?

And how can this be food that endures forever. By your own confession here. You claim that food can and does die.

 

[Marymog]

Where does it say in John 6 about rejecting what Jesus tells you to do?

And how can this be food that endures forever. By your own confession here. You claim that food can and does die.

It doesn't say anywhere in John 6 about rejecting what Jesus tells you to do.

Yes, I confess that food can and does die.

No, I will not use any other passage from Scripture to show that if you reject what Jesus tells you to do what will happen to you. I will adhere to your narrow rules.

Once again you are right (as long as we don't look at the rest of Scripture).

Mary

 

[Marymog]

What is food that endures forever. Can you give me your defenition

Jesus body is the food that endures forever. And we are told by Jesus to eat that food. He then shows us HOW to eat that food that endures forever.

Ooops...I referenced The Last Supper which is not in John 6....Sorry. We are only supposed to talk about john 6...my apologies.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

It doesn't say anywhere in John 6 about rejecting what Jesus tells you to do.

thank you

Yes, I confess that food can and does die.

Not the food Jesus gave, he said it will endure forever.

No, I will not use any other passage from Scripture to show that if you reject what Jesus tells you to do what will happen to you. I will adhere to your narrow rules.

Once again you are right (as long as we don't look at the rest of Scripture).

Mary

If you need to go to outside verses to understand what Jesus said in John 6

you do not understand what he said

As i said. I can go outside too. And prove John 6 is saying what I think it says..

but I would rather just stick to John 6. In fact. That is what my faith is in, the promise of God. Thats why I have been given the rest he promised.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Jesus body is the food that endures forever. And we are told by Jesus to eat that food. He then shows us HOW to eat that food that endures forever.

Ooops...I referenced The Last Supper which is not in John 6....Sorry. We are only supposed to talk about john 6...my apologies.

If his body is the food which endures forever.
then once we eat it. We will never die. As he promised

The only reason we would need to keep eating it. Is because it does not endure forever.

He did not show us how to eat that food. get off that nonsense

1. He said the same thing in John 1.

But as many as have RECEIVED HIM (come to him) to THEM he gave the right to become children of God (born again) been to those who believe..

it is through belief we are made children of God.

2. He said in John 3, we must be born again, then he tells us how

As moses lifted the serpent so to must the son of man be lifted up that whoever BELIEVES in him will NEVER PERISH but will LIVE FOREVER. For God sent his ony son that whoever believes h in him WILL NEVER PERISH, but has ETERNAL LIFE (will live forever) He who believes is not condemned, but he who does not believe is condemned ALREADY

It is through faith that we are born again, those born again will never die and has eternal life

3. Later John the Baptist says

35 The Father loves the Son, and has given all things into His hand. 36 He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

Again, it is through faith that we have eternal life


4. In john 4. Jesus speaking to the Samaritan woman, speaks of the water that endures to everlasting life. And all we have to do is ASK..

13 Jesus answered and said to her, “Whoever drinks of this water will thirst again, 14 butwhoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life.”

Again, it is through faith and asking him, we are given what will give us eternal life

5. In john 5. again, jesus uses the same words, whoever hears the WORDS and BELIEVES has eternal life, and passed from death to life. (Born again)

Again, through faith we have eternal life

24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.25 Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is

Again, it is through faith, in what? THE WORDS (You have to eat the words)
The same words spoken in John 6, Only john 6 wants goes far deeper.

food that endures forever. Whoever eats will never hunger or thirst. Will never perish, has eternal life, will live forever. And will be raised on the last day.

5 chapters. The disciples knew all these things.. Yet you want me to focus on three verses about flesh and blood and say I am ignoring what God said, if I would to know I have to go to the last supper.

The last supper does not explain anything Jesus said in John 1, John 3 John 4 John 5 or John 6

You can say it does 1000 times, it will not make it true

 

[Ziggy]

my point was in what you said, He lost none (i assume by what you said he meant non of the 5000)

its confusing because while they ate the food and were fed. They were mostly unbelievers. Their unbelief just had not been exposed. It would be the next day when it would be exposed and they would leave.

They still got fed the fish and bread. And they still were offered the living bread. Sadly they did not eat the bread that mattered, and walked away lost.

Strait and norrow is the way that leads to life, and few there be that find it.
Jesus didn't lose any that the God sent him. Maybe God sent only one out of the 5000.
Hugs

 

[Ziggy]

Ziggy and Eternally Grateful - you guys need to explain this . . .​

John 6:53-56
“Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.
Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day. For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him.”

Find ANY other verse where Jesus is talking about the “flesh and blood” where He doesn’t mean flesh and blood.
Take your time . . .

Also, the normal Greek word used for human eating is “phagon”, however, this is NOT the word used in these passages. John uses the word, “trogon”, which means, to “rip apart” and to “gnaw” one’s food - like an animal. Jesus was again using hyperbole as he often did to drive his point across so that the crowd would understand that he was NOT speaking symbolically. He meant what he said.

Just as the Jewish Passover Lamb was to be eaten, it is also true for the Lamb of God.

So, when the disciples went to the tomb on the first day of the week and the body was missing....
And then he met them multiple times after that. And then they saw him go into heaven.
Which time did they sit down and dine on his flesh and blood.
Can you show me that?

 

[BreadOfLife]

Take my time?

Thats not hard. read the rest of john 6. He did not talk about literal flesh and blood. And more than he is in the part of the passage your talking about.

He explained what he meant in the passage. And it was NOT his literal flesh and blood

You want to discuss this. Break my comments down. Otherwise. We have nothing to discuss

WRONG.

You are referring to verse 63:
John 6:63
It is the spirit that gives life, while the flesh is of no avail. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and life.

Unless you read the next TWO verses – you cannot possibly understand what Jesus was talking about:
John 6:64-65
But there are some of you who do not believe." Jesus knew from the beginning the ones who would not believe and the one who would betray him.

And he said, "For this reason I have told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by my Father."

In the verses that precede this (60 & 61), we see the crowd losing faith:
John 6:60
Then many of his disciples who were listening said, "This saying is hard; who can accept it?"

What does Jesus say? Does He try to explain His “symbolism”?
NO – He looks at them and says, "Does this shock you?? (v. 61)

YOUR fleshly thinking profits you nothing because it keeps you from understanding what He was saying. The people who left Him in verse 66 had the same problem as YOU.

Jesus’s flesh profits us EVERYTHING because it was HIS sacrifice that redeemed us.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

WRONG.

You are referring to verse 63:
John 6:63
It is the spirit that gives life, while the flesh is of no avail. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and life.

Unless you read the next TWO verses – you cannot possibly understand what Jesus was talking about:
John 6:64-65
But there are some of you who do not believe." Jesus knew from the beginning the ones who would not believe and the one who would betray him.

And he said, "For this reason I have told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by my Father."

In the verses that precede this (60 & 61), we see the crowd losing faith:
John 6:60
Then many of his disciples who were listening said, "This saying is hard; who can accept it?"

What does Jesus say? Does He try to explain His “symbolism”?
NO – He looks at them and says, "Does this shock you?? (v. 61)

YOUR fleshly thinking profits you nothing because it keeps you from understanding what He was saying. The people who left Him in verse 66 had the same problem as YOU.

Jesus’s flesh profits us EVERYTHING because it was HIS sacrifice that redeemed us.

Jesus flesh endures forever

if you keep eating it, you mock him.

 

[BreadOfLife]

So, when the disciples went to the tomb on the first day of the week and the body was missing....
And then he met them multiple times after that. And then they saw him go into heaven.
Which time did they sit down and dine on his flesh and blood.
Can you show me that?

For starters, on the night of His Resurrection, His 2 disciples on the Road to Emmaus received His body (Luke 24:13-35). There are many other times in the NT.

John 21:25 tells us that Jesus did MANY other things that are NOT written down.

Paul tells the Thessalonians:
2 Thess 2:15
"Stand firm and hold fast to the Traditions you were taught, whether by an ORAL STATEMENT or by a LETTER from us."

Under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, Paul declared that sacred Tradition had the same Authority as Scripture. This is something that YOU and most Protestants completely ignore or otherwise reject.

This is the SAME authoritative Tradition that gave us the Canon of Scripture that YOU and ALL of your Protestant brethren adhere to.


PS – Don’t think I didn’t notice that you couldn’t address a SINGLE point I made about John 6 . . .

 

[Eternally Grateful]

For starters, on the night of His Resurrection, His 2 disciples on the Road to Emmaus received His body (Luke 24:13-35). There are many other times in the NT.

John 21:25 tells us that Jesus did MANY other things that are NOT written down.

Paul tells the Thessalonians:
2 Thess 2:15
"Stand firm and hold fast to the Traditions you were taught, whether by an ORAL STATEMENT or by a LETTER from us."

Under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, Paul declared that sacred Tradition had the same Authority as Scripture. This is something that YOU and most Protestants completely ignore or otherwise reject.

This is the SAME authoritative Tradition that gave us the Canon of Scripture that YOU and ALL of your Protestant brethren adhere to.


PS – Don’t think I didn’t notice that you couldn’t address a SINGLE point I made about John 6 . . .

If tradition and history states that 2 + 2 = 5. Then we must ignore tradition and history..

 

[BreadOfLife]

Jesus flesh endures forever

if you keep eating it, you mock him.

His GLORIFIED Body endures forever.

As first century Bishop appointed by Peter - and the lifelong student of the Apostle John, Ignatius of Antioch wrote on the way to his martyrdom in Rome:
Ignatius of Antioch

Take note of those who hold heterodox opinions on the grace of Jesus Christ which has come to us, and see how contrary their opinions are to the mind of God. . . . They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, flesh which suffered for our sins and which that Father, in his goodness, raised up again. They who deny the gift of God are perishing in their disputes (Letter to the Smyrnaeans 6:2-7:1 [A.D. 107]).

 

[BreadOfLife]

If tradition and history states that 2 + 2 = 5. Then we must ignore tradition and history..

That wouldn't be Tradition OR History. It's just a LIE.
Sacred Tradition doesn't lie . . .

 

[Ziggy]

I could show you where sacred tradition was absolutely forbidden to eat human DUNG let alone flesh.
And Blood was definately not on the menu.

Jesus said those around him that couldn't hear it, was because he was talking about his spirit.

Jesus would never tell his people to do something that His Father absolutely forbidded them to do.

Jhn 14:10
Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

Let's see what the Father says...

Gen 9:4
But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat.

Lev 19:26
Ye shall not eat any thing with the blood: neither shall ye use enchantment, nor observe times.

Deu 12:23
Only be sure that thou eat not the blood: for the blood is the life; and thou mayest not eat the life with the flesh.

Psa 16:4
Their sorrows shall be multiplied that hasten after another god: their drink offerings of blood will I not offer, nor take up their names into my lips.

Rev 16:6
For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.

I believe Jesus was MOCKING them.

Hugs

 

[Philip James]

Not the food Jesus gave, he said it will endure forever.

What Bread did Jesus give us?

Then he took the bread, said the blessing, broke it, and gave it to them, saying, "This is my body, which will be given for you; do this in memory of me."

Alma Redemptoris Mater

 

[The Learner]

????

A member said the word was not given so we can privately interpret it. He said it was given and we have leaders who will tell us what it means

My point is that the Bible is not always that hard to understand

if a teacher tells his student that 2 + 2 = 4

then hear another teacher else say to their students

2 + 2 = 5

though study, everyone on earth has the ability to determine that 2 + 2 does not equal 5. So we can determine that the one saying it is in error. And trying to decieve his followers.

Granted a small child may not yet know that 2 + 2 = 4, and we have teachers to teach them these things.. But there will come a time in that childs life when he will mature enough and gain enough knowledge that he can discern that he has been lied to by his teachers, who teach him that 2 + 2 = 5.

Just like John spoke that he gave us the words so each person can determine if someone was trying to deceive them

my purpose is to use that formula to show John 6 is really not that hard to understand.

Most new believers tend to follow the ones who led them to christ, and do not know better, so in trust of those who are teaching them, take them as fact.

I am seen, and done this myself. That every child of Christ (Unless their christian growth was stunted by their refusal to study the word, or by their church, that everyone who has changed something they believed in, did so because when they grew. And studied the word. They found something did not add up. So they question what they have been taught. And in the end. They determine what they were taught was in error. So they changed their view

very few people changed their view because they just decided to leave a church, or the church did something to them that made them mad..

3^0 = 1 is the Trinity higher math. weird cults go with 1+1+1=3. 3^0 = 1 is any number raised to any positive number equals one.

 

[The Learner]

not keeping up

 

[The Learner]

2 Thessalonians 2:15
Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the[apolostolic] traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

2 Thessalonians 3:6
Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.

1 Corinthians 11:17-33

Easy-to-Read Version

​

The Lord’s Supper​

17 In the things I tell you now I don’t praise you. Your meetings hurt you more than they help you. 18 First, I hear that when you meet together as a church you are divided. And this is not hard to believe 19 because of your idea that you must have separate groups to show who the real believers are!
20 When you all come together, it is not really the Lord’s Supper[a] you are eating. 21 I say this because when you eat, each one eats without waiting for the others. Some people don’t get enough to eat or drink, while others have too much. 22 You can eat and drink in your own homes. It seems that you think God’s church is not important. You embarrass those who are poor. What can I say? Should I praise you? No, I cannot praise you for this.
23 The teaching I gave you is the same that I received from the Lord: On the night when the Lord Jesus was handed over to be killed, he took bread 24 and gave thanks for it. Then he divided the bread and said, “This is my body; it is for you. Eat this to remember me.” 25 In the same way, after they ate, Jesus took the cup of wine. He said, “This cup represents the new agreement from God, which begins with my blood sacrifice. When you drink this, do it to remember me.” 26 This means that every time you eat this bread and drink this cup, you are telling others about the Lord’s death until he comes again.
27 So if you eat the bread or drink the cup of the Lord in a way that does not fit its meaning, you are sinning against the body and the blood of the Lord. 28 Before you eat the bread and drink the cup, you should examine your own attitude. 29 If you eat and drink without paying attention to those who are the Lord’s body, your eating and drinking will cause you to be judged guilty. 30 That is why many in your group are sick and weak, and many have died. 31 But if we judged ourselves in the right way, then God would not judge us. 32 But when the Lord judges us, he punishes us to show us the right way. He does this so that we will not be condemned with the world.
33 So, my brothers and sisters, when you come together to eat, wait for each other.
Read full chapter

Footnotes​

1. 1 Corinthians 11:20 Lord’s Supper The special meal Jesus told his followers to eat to remember him. See Lk. 22:14-20.
2. 1 Corinthians 11:21 have too much Literally, “get drunk.”

 

[The Learner]

John 6:25-70

Easy-to-Read Version

​

Jesus, the Bread of Life​

25 The people found Jesus on the other side of the lake. They asked him, “Teacher, when did you come here?”
26 He answered, “Why are you looking for me? Is it because you saw miraculous signs? The truth is, you are looking for me because you ate the bread and were satisfied. 27 But earthly food spoils and ruins. So don’t work to get that kind of food. But work to get the food that stays good and gives you eternal life. The Son of Man will give you that food. He is the only one qualified by God the Father to give it to you.”
28 The people asked Jesus, “What does God want us to do?”
29 Jesus answered, “The work God wants you to do is this: to believe in the one he sent.”
30 So the people asked, “What miraculous sign will you do for us? If we can see you do a miracle, then we will believe you. What will you do? 31 Our ancestors were given manna to eat in the desert. As the Scriptures say, ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’[a]”
32 Jesus said, “I can assure you that Moses was not the one who gave your people bread from heaven. But my Father gives you the true bread from heaven. 33 God’s bread is the one who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”
34 The people said, “Sir, from now on give us bread like that.”
35 Then Jesus said, “I am the bread that gives life. No one who comes to me will ever be hungry. No one who believes in me will ever be thirsty. 36 I told you before that you have seen me, and still you don’t believe. 37 The Father gives me my people. Every one of them will come to me. I will always accept them. 38 I came down from heaven to do what God wants, not what I want. 39 I must not lose anyone God has given me. But I must raise them up on the last day. This is what the one who sent me wants me to do. 40 Everyone who sees the Son and believes in him has eternal life. I will raise them up on the last day. This is what my Father wants.”
41 Some Jews began to complain about Jesus because he said, “I am the bread that comes down from heaven.” 42 They said, “This is Jesus. We know his father and mother. He is only Joseph’s son. How can he say, ‘I came down from heaven’?”
43 But Jesus said, “Stop complaining to each other. 44 The Father is the one who sent me, and he is the one who brings people to me. I will raise them up on the last day. Anyone the Father does not bring to me cannot come to me. 45 It is written in the prophets: ‘God will teach them all.’ People listen to the Father and learn from him. They are the ones who come to me. 46 I don’t mean that there is anyone who has seen the Father. The only one who has ever seen the Father is the one who came from God. He has seen the Father.
47 “I can assure you that anyone who believes has eternal life. 48 I am the bread that gives life. 49 Your ancestors ate the manna God gave them in the desert, but it didn’t keep them from dying. 50 Here is the bread that comes down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will never die. 51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my body. I will give my body so that the people in the world can have life.”
52 Then the Jews began to argue among themselves. They said, “How can this man give us his body to eat?”
53 Jesus said, “Believe me when I say that you must eat the body of the Son of Man, and you must drink his blood. If you don’t do this, you have no real life. 54 Those who eat my body and drink my blood have eternal life. I will raise them up on the last day. 55 My body is true food, and my blood is true drink. 56 Those who eat my body and drink my blood live in me, and I live in them.
57 “The Father sent me. He lives, and I live because of him. So everyone who eats me will live because of me. 58 I am not like the bread that your ancestors ate. They ate that bread, but they still died. I am the bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever.”
59 Jesus said all this while he was teaching in the synagogue in the city of Capernaum.

Many Followers Leave Jesus​

60 When Jesus’ followers heard this, many of them said, “This teaching is hard. Who can accept it?”
61 Jesus already knew that his followers were complaining about this. So he said, “Is this teaching a problem for you? 62 Then what will you think when you see the Son of Man going up to where he came from? 63 It is the Spirit that gives life. The body is of no value for that. But the things I have told you are from the Spirit, so they give life. 64 But some of you don’t believe.” (Jesus knew the people who did not believe. He knew this from the beginning. And he knew the one who would hand him over to his enemies.) 65 Jesus said, “That is why I said, ‘Anyone the Father does not help to come to me cannot come.’”
66 After Jesus said these things, many of his followers left and stopped following him.
67 Jesus asked the twelve apostles, “Do you want to leave too?”
68 Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, where would we go? You have the words that give eternal life. 69 We believe in you. We know that you are the Holy One from God.”
70 Then Jesus answered, “I chose all twelve of you. But one of you is a devil.”

 

[The Learner]

Matthew 26:17-30

Easy-to-Read Version

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The Passover Meal​

17 On the first day of the Festival of Unleavened Bread, the followers came to Jesus. They said, “We will prepare everything for you to eat the Passover meal. Where do you want us to have the meal?”
18 Jesus answered, “Go into the city. Go to a man I know. Tell him that the Teacher says, ‘The chosen time is near. I will have the Passover meal with my followers at your house.’” 19 They obeyed and did what Jesus told them to do. They prepared the Passover meal.
20 In the evening Jesus was at the table with the twelve followers. 21 They were all eating. Then Jesus said, “Believe me when I say that one of you twelve here will hand me over to my enemies.”
22 The followers were very sad to hear this. Each one said, “Lord, surely I am not the one!”
23 Jesus answered, “One who has dipped his bread in the same bowl with me will be the one to hand me over. 24 The Son of Man will suffer what the Scriptures say will happen to him. But it will be very bad for the one who hands over the Son of Man to be killed. It would be better for him if he had never been born.”
25 Then Judas, the very one who would hand him over, said to Jesus, “Teacher, surely I am not the one you are talking about, am I?”
Jesus answered, “Yes, it is you.”

The Lord’s Supper​

26 While they were eating, Jesus took some bread and thanked God for it. He broke off some pieces, gave them to his followers and said, “Take this bread and eat it. It is my body.”
27 Then he took a cup of wine, thanked God for it, and gave it to them. He said, “Each one of you drink some of it. 28 This wine is my blood, which will be poured out to forgive the sins of many and begin the new agreement from God to his people. 29 I want you to know, I will not drink this wine again until that day when we are together in my Father’s kingdom and the wine is new. Then I will drink it again with you.”
30 They all sang a song and then went out to the Mount of Olives.