John 6 and the bread from heaven

[Eternally Grateful]

A few of us have been discussing John 6 and the roman church with @Marymog and @Augustin56 in the thread if you think mary remained.....

In this thread, @Augustin56 said the following about the bible

Jesus trained and formed men to spread His message. He didn't write a book to be self-interpreted to do so.

My reply to him was that God did not give us a letter that we could not read. In fact. John tells us that the words are written to us so we may not be decieved

lol.. yeah, he gave us a book we can't read or understand.

ok.

like I said, any excuse to keep yourself under the guidance of men.

lets just say this

when a word says 2 + 2 = 4

And someone comes in and says 2 + 2 = 5

then you walk away from the person who can not do basic math

The bible is not really all that complicated. Especially when you are born of God. What does the word say?

26 These things I have written to you concerning those who try to deceive you. 27 But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him.

John makes a point here we should all take heed. The word is written to us concerning those who try to deceive us. We have an anointing (if we do) then we do not need people to teach us, The same anointing that saved us will also teach is.

I wanted to go deeper into this. But I did not want to keep taking a thread someone made about Mary and keep trying to discuss something else. So I thought I would continue this conversation and show what I meant about the math equation and how we can use it to see if someone is trying to lead us astray, or to better yet. show how John 6 is not really all that complicated.


I am going to look at different aspects of the conversation and put them into rows. and use what Jesus said to make up this equation.

2 + 2 = X

where the first 2 will be all the things Jesus named about this food.

the second 2 will be what God told us to do

and the X will represent what will happen if we add these two things together.

Now I know some people think this may be foolish. But my hope is to show that John 6 is really not that complicated that people make it seem to be. and the difference between those who think X = 4 and those who think X = 5

 

[Eternally Grateful]

For this I will try to color code each digit so it is easier to see

two plus two equals X

John 6: 26 - 27 Jesus answered them and said, “Most assuredly, I say to you, you seek Me, not because you saw the signs, but because you ate of the loaves and were filled. Do not labor for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to everlasting life, which the Son of Man will give you, because God the Father has set His seal on Him.”

Food + (nothing yet) = eternal life


vs 32 - 33 - Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, Moses did not give you the bread from heaven, but My Father gives you the true bread from heaven. For the bread of God is He who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”
- Then they said to Him, “Lord, give us this bread always.” And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst.

Bread (he who comes from heaven) + He who comes to me and he who believes in me = You will never hunger and you will never thirst

36 But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe. 37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.

Me (christ) + comes to me = never be cast out

40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

Me (christ) + sees and believes = everlasting life and the promise he WILL raise them the last day


47 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that one may eat of it and not die. 51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world.”

Bread of life + Believes in him, he who eats this living bread (his flesh) = will live forever


vs 53 - 58 Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For My flesh is food indeed,and My blood is drink indeed. He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who feeds on Me will live because of Me. This is the bread which came down from heaven—not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead. He who eats this bread will live forever.”

Flesh and blood + eat and drink (literally gnaw and chew) = will live forever, promised to be raised on the last day, will live because of him (as long as Spirit (words of Christ) lives they will live


vs 61 -63 When Jesus knew in Himself that His disciples complained about this, He said to them, “Does this offend you? What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before? It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.

Spirit (words of Christ) + It is assumed believe or see and believe here) = Gives life,


vs 67 - 71 - Then Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you also want to go away?” But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. Also we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?” He spoke of Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon, for it was he who would betray Him, being one of the twelve.

the words of eternal life the Christ, the son of the living God + believing = eternal life

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Now lets put it all together. The yellow plus the blue = purple

I will give both views..

view 1

yellow we have

food, Bread (he who comes from heaven) bread from heaven, Christ, Bread of life, Flesh and blood, Words of the spirit

These are actually different names God gives for the same thing, this food he Mentioned in the first verse, that endures forever

Blue we have

comes to Christ, sees Christ, believes in Christ, eats the living bread (his flesh) Eat and drink (gnaw and chew) believe

these all represent we must do with the first group.

when we add these all together, we come up with X

I will give both views of X

first view

X we have

Eternal life, Never hunger, never thirst, Never be cast out. the promise to be raised the last day. will live forever. will live because of him, Given life (passed from death to life) and eternal life.

the second view believes the same things are given, although they add something to the equation, which makes it different from the first view.

Must continue to eat, weekly, If you continue to do this, you MAY recieve these things (there is more to the equation that is discussed in the rest of scripture)

 

[Eternally Grateful]

As you can see. John 6 is not that hard to understand at all. If you just break it down to its basic components.

Just like you should never believe that 2 + 2 = 5. You should never believe a vew that says you have to add things to the final result and you may not even then get what Jesus promised.

 

[Ziggy]

1Co 2:9
But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
1Co 2:10
But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
1Co 2:11
For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
1Co 2:12
Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
1Co 2:13
Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
1Co 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Hugs

 

[Ziggy]

I used to frequent another forum many many years ago.
Star was her name. I don't know where she is today, but we got talking about the Bread.
And all of a sudden it dawned on me. Jesus' words are the Bread.
His Words are the Bread.
Blew my mind, I made that connection. I hadn't seen it before.
Now I can't not see it.

I am the Bread of Life, I am the Word of God.
Spiritual food indeed, if you can recieve it.
What an awesome day that was. And I have found so many more pearls since then.
I'm not so much surprised anymore as it is an.. aha.. moment.

Bless you for trying to explain it. Somethings the world just aren't able to chew on.


Here try this:

Hugs

 

[Marymog]

A few of us have been discussing John 6 and the roman church with @Marymog and @Augustin56 in the thread if you think mary remained.....

In this thread, @Augustin56 said the following about the bible


My reply to him was that God did not give us a letter that we could not read. In fact. John tells us that the words are written to us so we may not be decieved

I wanted to go deeper into this. But I did not want to keep taking a thread someone made about Mary and keep trying to discuss something else. So I thought I would continue this conversation and show what I meant about the math equation and how we can use it to see if someone is trying to lead us astray, or to better yet. show how John 6 is not really all that complicated.


I am going to look at different aspects of the conversation and put them into rows. and use what Jesus said to make up this equation.

2 + 2 = X

where the first 2 will be all the things Jesus named about this food.

the second 2 will be what God told us to do

and the X will represent what will happen if we add these two things together.

Now I know some people think this may be foolish. But my hope is to show that John 6 is really not that complicated that people make it seem to be. and the difference between those who think X = 4 and those who think X = 5

Ummmm.....I don't see anything in your post about John 6 so I will read your next post.

Mary

 

[amigo de christo]

my words are spirit and they are life . and lambs do eat of his words . Just a friendly reminder .
For many can indeed lip His name and yet their meat and their drink cometh of a harlots cup . That wont bode well
for those on the day of the LORD . You all be blessed now . Remember the most deadly wolf
is not the wolf that lives in the forest and cometh to prey on the lambs
for that wolf is clearly seen for what it is and those who watch over the SHEPARDS flock
as the SHEPARD gaurds his own , SEES the wolf and hurls a great stone to drive it away .
The wolf that is most dangerous is the one in wool who holds a staff in his hand and sayeth
I am here to gaurd the flock . For that hirling will see the wolves coming and allow them entrance in
and much destruction do they bring to that flock . Watch out for the devil can indeed wear more than prada
HE can wear WOOL and so can his ministirs who decieve the flocks they so called watch over . watch out . yea
i say watch out for those for they be many ..........

 

[amigo de christo]

1Co 2:9
But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
1Co 2:10
But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
1Co 2:11
For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
1Co 2:12
Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
1Co 2:13
Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
1Co 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Hugs

Dance a jig of praise and thanksgivings unto the glorious Lord . The LORD is with and watches over the sheep of HIS pasture .
But many hirelings , who have come in the Shepards name have sprung from within christendom .
And they feed their flocks to the mouth of the deciever . BUT the lambs do not hear them , nor follow them .
FOR JESUS has the sheep and HE , HIS VOICE they do follow , HE keeps His own . Stay DUG in that bible ziggy .

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I used to frequent another forum many many years ago.
Star was her name. I don't know where she is today, but we got talking about the Bread.
And all of a sudden it dawned on me. Jesus' words are the Bread.
His Words are the Bread.
Blew my mind, I made that connection. I hadn't seen it before.
Now I can't not see it.

I am the Bread of Life, I am the Word of God.
Spiritual food indeed, if you can recieve it.
What an awesome day that was. And I have found so many more pearls since then.
I'm not so much surprised anymore as it is an.. aha.. moment.

Bless you for trying to explain it. Somethings the world just aren't able to chew on.


Here try this:

Hugs

Its amazing.

Peter did not understand yet, He would not understand until after Christ was raised.

Yet he did not depart why? He understood. Jesus had the words of eternal life. In that was the christ, the son of the living God.

It’s also amazing, they will say the ones who left believe jesus spoke of his literal flesh and blood. As did everyone else.

Although there is no proof anyone else took him literally. If anything, Peters words destroys the theory he thought it was literal.

He equated, as done above. Everything, the bread, the flesh and blood. To the words of life.. Not the literal thing

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Ummmm.....I don't see anything in your post about John 6 so I will read your next post.

Mary

Look forward to your response. My second posts quotes much of John 6 and Jesus words.

 

[amigo de christo]

Until the veil o rome is taken from off the eyes , they cannot see nor behold the true glory of GOD .
The veil will be removed in CHRIST and in HE ALONE . now tis time for folks to get in them bibles .
I say this out of great concern for many . For we do have us many decievers all over and all about even the very realm of christendom itself .
They are very well spoken , very highly learned men , who though they have learned much cannot come to the TRUTH .
But what they can do is claim to hold the keys , claim to hold the knowledge of the HOLY GOD and of CHRIST
and yet they KNOW NOT and SEE NOT . but these men are great oracles . they can speak and sound like the wisest of men
but their knowledge cometh not of GOD , ,not of the mind of Christ but of the minds of men . Beware , for they are many .

 

[Taken]

@Eternally Grateful

You are being tempted to enter a web and then to defend that web…

Scripture teaches to open your ears, Listen, and then VERIFY, TEST, see what you Hear is Scripturally True.

That is NOT interpreting !

It not a Secret, men speak, men hear, men hear things that make them wonder.

Again, verify, test, see if it is Scripturally True.

That is NOT interpreting !

Individual men DECIDE what APPLIES to them….by, through, of WHAT they DO BELIEVE, and Scripture Verifies WHAT APPLIES to them.

That is NOT interpretation !

Interpretation IS NOT the knowledge of scripture…
Interpretation IS the MEANING of the Knowledge.

Many things that had been KEPT SECRET for centuries WAS Revealed by Jesus’ teaching.
That is NEW Knowledge.

Whatever Scripture does NOT reveal the MEANING of the Knowledge…
Then the MEANING (the UNDERSTANDING) of the Knowledge….REMAINS SECRET.

Jesus Offered to mankind…Mankind’s OWN freewill Choice to Believe IN Him (or not, as they could freely choose.)

Jesus Offered to mankind…A WAY for mankind…to CONFESS their True Belief IN Him.

Jesus ALSO Offered to ANY MAN….who:
Freely chose to Believe IN Him…
AND
Freely chose to Confess true Belief IN Him…
AN EXPRESS GIFT…of Communication to ASK HIM HIS interpretation of His own Word.

Not a big Secret…Communication from a man to Christ Jesus, IS by, through, of Prayer, OF the mans “BORN AGAIN” spirit, TO the Spirit of God.

A (Born Again) man reading the KNOWLEDGE of the Word of God….and Wondering the Meaning/Understanding of that KNOWLEDGE ….
Has no need, cause, to ask other men, trust other men, believe other men, make up his own interpretation…….
But rather….to simply ASK the Lord God Himself….AND WAIT for His response.

The response may be immediate, may be hours, days, weeks, months later….out of the blue that becomes your own ah ha moment.

I read, I wonder, I ask all the time. I keep a mental record of WHAT I ask….and WHEN I receive the ANSWER, I go back to the Scriptures that puzzled me, re-read, and APPLY the Lords interpretation He gives me, TO His own Word.

You are trying to be backed into an “irrelevant” corner…. Of course you hear other men speaking….of course you wonder…of course you can verify the knowledge…of course you can agree or disagree……that is not interpreting….that is hearing…and discussing…and agreeing with knowledge or not.

The Knowledge is either there in scripture or it isn’t.
And Many passages IN Scripture do apply to you….by what YOU believe and do.
And Many passages IN Scripture do Not apply to you…by what YOU believe and do.

I am not a follower of MEN, nor have I a requirement to Believe IN MEN.

Other people ARE expressly taught and told to follow, believe in other MEN, and expressly taught WHAT Men to follow, to believe, to uphold as their Truth, and in some cases they are upheld in equal status as Christ Jesus Himself… Not my agreement.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[amigo de christo]

TIS LORD PRAISING TIME in the building .

 

[Ziggy]

There was/is the same kind of ceremony in the OT concerning the Bread of the Presence.
I believe this is the same bread that was given to David when he was on the run from King Saul.


1Sa 21:2
And David said unto Ahimelech the priest, The king hath commanded me a business, and hath said unto me, Let no man know any thing of the business whereabout I send thee, and what I have commanded thee: and I have appointed my servants to such and such a place.
1Sa 21:3
Now therefore what is under thine hand? give me five loaves of bread in mine hand, or what there is present.
1Sa 21:4
And the priest answered David, and said, There is no common bread under mine hand, but there is hallowed bread; if the young men have kept themselves at least from women.
1Sa 21:5
And David answered the priest, and said unto him, Of a truth women have been kept from us about these three days, since I came out, and the vessels of the young men are holy, and the bread is in a manner common, yea, though it were sanctified this day in the vessel.
1Sa 21:6
So the priest gave him hallowed bread: for there was no bread there but the shewbread, that was taken from before the LORD, to put hot bread in the day when it was taken away.

I believe according to the law of Moses, this hot hallowed bread was placed on a table signifying God's presence among them.
Then when they removed it it was given to Aaron the Priest and his sons to eat of the holy things.

Wow try putting this into context with what he told them about eating his flesh and drinking his blood.
Maybe it wasn't so much about the food as it was who could partake of it.
thinking....

Lev 21:16
And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
Lev 21:17
Speak unto Aaron, saying, Whosoever he be of thy seed in their generations that hath any blemish, let him not approach to offer the bread of his God.
Lev 21:18
For whatsoever man he be that hath a blemish, he shall not approach: a blind man, or a lame, or he that hath a flat nose, or any thing superfluous,
Lev 21:19
Or a man that is brokenfooted, or brokenhanded,
Lev 21:20
Or crookbackt, or a dwarf, or that hath a blemish in his eye, or be scurvy, or scabbed, or hath his stones broken;
Lev 21:21
No man that hath a blemish of the seed of Aaron the priest shall come nigh to offer the offerings of the LORD made by fire: he hath a blemish; he shall not come nigh to offer the bread of his God.
Lev 21:22
He shall eat the bread of his God, both of the most holy, and of the holy.
Lev 21:23
Only he shall not go in unto the vail, nor come nigh unto the altar, because he hath a blemish; that he profane not my sanctuaries: for I the LORD do sanctify them.
Lev 21:24
And Moses told it unto Aaron, and to his sons, and unto all the children of Israel.

he that hath a flat nose... I never seen that before...

So who is Jesus talking to about eating his flesh?

He is talking to the Jews, who have kept these rituals for thousands of years. No wonder they was like, huh?

Jhn 6:52
The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat?
Jhn 6:53
Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
Jhn 6:54
Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Jhn 6:55
For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
Jhn 6:56
He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
Jhn 6:57
As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.

Remember the Holy Bread is the Bread of the Lord's presence. And only Aaron and his sons could partake of it, and only if they were perfect.
So even if they could relate the very flesh of Jesus with the Bread of Presence, they would have to meet a bit of criteria first.

I'm digging into new ground...
This gets more and more interesting everytime I pick up my pic and shovel and go digging.
But these verses, I don't have them memorized, they just come to me.....
God' puts the story or the verses or even the idea and tells me where to look for them.

He is my pic and shovel

Hugs

 

[Eternally Grateful]

@Eternally Grateful

You are being tempted to enter a web and then to defend that web…

Scripture teaches to open your ears, Listen, and then VERIFY, TEST, see what you Hear is Scripturally True.

That is NOT interpreting !

It not a Secret, men speak, men hear, men hear things that make them wonder.

Again, verify, test, see if it is Scripturally True.

That is NOT interpreting !

Individual men DECIDE what APPLIES to them….by, through, of WHAT they DO BELIEF, and Scripture Verifies WHAT APPLIES to them.

That is NOT interpretation !

Interpretation IS NOT the knowledge of scripture…
Interpretation IS the MEANING of the Knowledge.

Many things that had been KEPT SECRET for centuries WAS Revealed by Jesus’ teaching.
That is NEW Knowledge.

Whatever Scripture does NOT reveal the MEANING of the Knowledge…
Then the MEANING (the UNDERSTANDING) of the Knowledge….REMAINS SECRET.

Jesus Offered to mankind…Mankind’s OWN freewill Choice to Believe IN Him (or not, as they could freely choose.)

Jesus Offered to mankind…A WAY for mankind…to CONFESS their True Belief IN Him.

Jesus ALSO Offered to ANY MAN….who:
Freely chose to Believe IN Him…
AND
Freely chose to Confess true Belief IN Him…
AN EXPRESS GIFT…of Communication to ASK HIM HIS interpretation of His own Word.

Not a big Secret…Communication from a man to Christ Jesus, IS by, through, of Prayer, OF the mans “BORN AGAIN” spirit, TO the Spirit of God.

A (Born Again) man reading the KNOWLEDGE of the Word of God….and Wondering the Meaning/Understanding of that KNOWLEDGE ….
Has no need, cause, to ask other men, trust other men, believe other men, make up his own interpretation…….
But rather….to simply ASK the Lord God Himself….AND WAIT for His response.

The response may be immediate, may be hours, days, weeks, months later….out of the blue that becomes your own ah ha moment.

I read, I wonder, I ask all the time. I keep a mental record of WHAT I ask….and WHEN I receive the ANSWER, I go back to the Scriptures that puzzled me, re-read, and APPLY the Lords interpretation He gives me, TO His own Word.

You are trying to be backed into an “irrelevant” corner…. Of course you hear other men speaking….of course you wonder…of course you can verify the knowledge…of course you can agree or disagree……that is not interpreting….that is hearing…and discussing…and agreeing with knowledge or not.

The Knowledge is either there in scripture or it isn’t.
And Many passages IN Scripture do apply to you….by what YOU believe and do.
And Many passages IN Scripture do Not apply to you…by what YOU believe and do.

I am not a follower of MEN, nor have I a requirement to Believe IN MEN.

Other people ARE expressly taught and told to follow, believe in other MEN, and expressly taught WHAT Men to follow, to believe, to uphold as their Truth, and in some cases they are upheld in equal status as Christ Jesus Himself… Not my agreement.

Glory to God,
Taken

All I want to do is read a passage and determine what God said in that passage

 

[Ziggy]

All I want to do is read a passage and determine what God said in that passage

yeah but it never ends at one passage. It's like taking a trip through time from one end of the bible and back again.
Hold onto your hat, your in for the ride of your life!

 

[Marymog]

For this I will try to color code each digit so it is easier to see

two plus two equals X

John 6: 26 - 27 Jesus answered them and said, “Most assuredly, I say to you, you seek Me, not because you saw the signs, but because you ate of the loaves and were filled. Do not labor for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to everlasting life, which the Son of Man will give you, because God the Father has set His seal on Him.”

Food + (nothing yet) = eternal life


vs 32 - 33 - Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, Moses did not give you the bread from heaven, but My Father gives you the true bread from heaven. For the bread of God is He who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”
- Then they said to Him, “Lord, give us this bread always.” And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst.

Bread (he who comes from heaven) + He who comes to me and he who believes in me = You will never hunger and you will never thirst

36 But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe. 37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.

Me (christ) + comes to me = never be cast out

40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

Me (christ) + sees and believes = everlasting life and the promise he WILL raise them the last day


47 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that one may eat of it and not die. 51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world.”

Bread of life + Believes in him, he who eats this living bread (his flesh) = will live forever


vs 53 - 58 Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For My flesh is food indeed,and My blood is drink indeed. He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who feeds on Me will live because of Me. This is the bread which came down from heaven—not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead. He who eats this bread will live forever.”

Flesh and blood + eat and drink (literally gnaw and chew) = will live forever, promised to be raised on the last day, will live because of him (as long as Spirit (words of Christ) lives they will live


vs 61 -63 When Jesus knew in Himself that His disciples complained about this, He said to them, “Does this offend you? What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before? It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.

Spirit (words of Christ) + It is assumed believe or see and believe here) = Gives life,


vs 67 - 71 - Then Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you also want to go away?” But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. Also we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?” He spoke of Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon, for it was he who would betray Him, being one of the twelve.

the words of eternal life the Christ, the son of the living God + believing = eternal life

I want to thank you EG for starting this thread so that we can have a more in-depth discussion on this matter. Let's put John 6 in CONTEXT with what ALL of what John 6 has to say about this matter.

John 6 starts out with the feeding of BREAD to 5,000 followers of Him. He took 5 loaves and MIRACUASLY fed all of them until they were full, with some fragments left over. The fragments were 'gathered up so that nothing was lost'. The Church still does that today! The next day Jesus said to those that were seeking him out because of this MIRACLE her performed (miraculous multiplication of bread), “26 Most assuredly, I say to you, you seek Me, not because you saw the signs, but because you ate of the loaves and were filled. 27 Do not labor for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to everlasting life, which the Son of Man will give you, because God the Father has set His seal on Him.”

Later in John 6 He explains vs 27 by telling them that He is the "food which endures to everlasting life". Further equating himself to bread saying that we must eat him. Using hermeneutics, we KNOW that when he used the word 'eat' it literally meant to chew. They KNEW that he meant they had to literally eat Him. That is why some walked away. That is why today some Protestants STILL walk away. They do not understand what He meant by literally eating Him. Jesus even told them it is a hard saying. Why was it a hard saying if all he meant that we must, according to you EG, eat his word (read Scripture daily)? Why would they walk away if they thought that eating him meant reading daily Scripture. That makes ZERO sense and is not logical! It all comes back to hermeneutics.

In summary thus far Jesus miraculously changed 5 loaves of bread into enough bread to feed 5,000 people with some left over. He then equated himself to that miraculous bread saying that we must eat Him. Those that thought he was talking of cannibalism walked away. The ones that stuck around found out HOW to eat Him.

What did he do to teach us HOW to eat Him? At The Last Supper Jesus, once again, equated himself to bread saying eat (this bread) in remembrance of me, this IS my body. He didn't say like some of you Protestants say that it is a SYMBOL of his body. He said it IS his body. Me and my ilk believe Him. You and your ilk don't. I can't explain to you HOW he does it, but it is truly a miracle.

Now to put more of Scripture into context on this matter we need to see what the NT Christians practiced AFTER Jesus died and gave them these instructions. They broke bread DAILY. Why daily? Well, Jesus taught them to pray for their daily bread in The Lord's Prayer. He also told them to do it in memory of Him, so DAILY they did what he told them to do. Fast forward about 30 years later and Paul asked a rhetorical question to the Christians in Corinth, The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ? Paul later says, whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. How can one eat the word of the Lord in an unworthy manner? It's not logical and it does not fit into the CONTEXT of that entire chapter. Paul is CLEARLY talking about EATING REAL BREAD, not reading Scripture + believing= eating him!

So, Jesus TOLD us that we must eat him and that we will have eternal life if we do. He then SHOWED us how to eat Him. And then Paul told the 1st century Christians that when they eat the bread in remembrance of Him the bread IS (miraculously) his body just like Jesus said it was.

 

[Marymog]

For this I will try to color code each digit so it is easier to see

two plus two equals X

John 6: 26 - 27 Jesus answered them and said, “Most assuredly, I say to you, you seek Me, not because you saw the signs, but because you ate of the loaves and were filled. Do not labor for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to everlasting life, which the Son of Man will give you, because God the Father has set His seal on Him.”

Food + (nothing yet) = eternal life


vs 32 - 33 - Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, Moses did not give you the bread from heaven, but My Father gives you the true bread from heaven. For the bread of God is He who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”
- Then they said to Him, “Lord, give us this bread always.” And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst.

Bread (he who comes from heaven) + He who comes to me and he who believes in me = You will never hunger and you will never thirst

36 But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe. 37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.

Me (christ) + comes to me = never be cast out

40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

Me (christ) + sees and believes = everlasting life and the promise he WILL raise them the last day


47 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that one may eat of it and not die. 51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world.”

Bread of life + Believes in him, he who eats this living bread (his flesh) = will live forever


vs 53 - 58 Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For My flesh is food indeed,and My blood is drink indeed. He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who feeds on Me will live because of Me. This is the bread which came down from heaven—not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead. He who eats this bread will live forever.”

Flesh and blood + eat and drink (literally gnaw and chew) = will live forever, promised to be raised on the last day, will live because of him (as long as Spirit (words of Christ) lives they will live


vs 61 -63 When Jesus knew in Himself that His disciples complained about this, He said to them, “Does this offend you? What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before? It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.

Spirit (words of Christ) + It is assumed believe or see and believe here) = Gives life,


vs 67 - 71 - Then Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you also want to go away?” But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. Also we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?” He spoke of Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon, for it was he who would betray Him, being one of the twelve.

the words of eternal life the Christ, the son of the living God + believing = eternal life

continued...

Now that I have used ALL of Scripture to put this matter in CONTEXT, let's look at OUR Christian history. As you will see, our Christian history is in line with what Jesus said, Paul taught and the NT Christians practiced.

Ignatius of Antioch, who was a student of the Apostle John wrote; "I have no taste for corruptible food nor for the pleasures of this life. I desire the bread of God, which is the flesh of Jesus Christ . . . and for drink I desire his blood, which is love incorruptible” (Letter to the Romans 7:3 [A.D. 110]).​

“Take note of those who hold heterodox opinions on the grace of Jesus Christ which has come to us, and see how contrary their opinions are to the mind of God. . . . They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, flesh which suffered for our sins and which that Father, in his goodness, raised up again. They who deny the gift of God are perishing in their disputes” (Letter to the Smyrnaeans 6:2–7:1 [A.D. 110]).

IN SUMMARY: Scripture does not support what you have been taught or what you have taught yourself
Context of Scripture does not support what you believe
Hermeneutics does not support what you believe
Christian history does not support what you believe

Now I could go on and on and quote the first several hundreds years of what The Church taught on this matter, but it will just be a repeat of what a student of an Apostle taught and opposite of what some Protestant men started teaching 1,500 years after the death of Christ.

Mary

 

[Marymog]

my words are spirit and they are life . and lambs do eat of his words . Just a friendly reminder .
For many can indeed lip His name and yet their meat and their drink cometh of a harlots cup . That wont bode well
for those on the day of the LORD . You all be blessed now . Remember the most deadly wolf
is not the wolf that lives in the forest and cometh to prey on the lambs
for that wolf is clearly seen for what it is and those who watch over the SHEPARDS flock
as the SHEPARD gaurds his own , SEES the wolf and hurls a great stone to drive it away .
The wolf that is most dangerous is the one in wool who holds a staff in his hand and sayeth
I am here to gaurd the flock . For that hirling will see the wolves coming and allow them entrance in
and much destruction do they bring to that flock . Watch out for the devil can indeed wear more than prada
HE can wear WOOL and so can his ministirs who decieve the flocks they so called watch over . watch out . yea
i say watch out for those for they be many ..........

@Eternally Grateful I would like to apologize for the trolls that have already infiltrated our discussion.