What is Mystery Babylon?

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David H.

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Amen, seven attributes to attain, to add to our faith. You prompted me to do a search for the number 7 in scripture. How it pertains on a personal level. His word in us tried 7 times......7 seals opened in our hearts, one at a time.....furnace heated 7 x hotter.....judgment beginning with His house, with us. 7 sprinklings of cleansing. There is lots...happy hunting.
What was the old quote, I prayed for love God gave me someone who was hard to love?

Here it is:
I asked for strength,
And God gave me difficulties to make me strong;

I asked for wisdom,
And God gave me problems to learn to solve;

I asked for prosperity,
And God gave me brain and brawn to work;

I asked for courage,
And God gave me dangers to overcome;

I asked for love,
And God gave me people to help;

I asked for favors,
And God gave me opportunities.

I received nothing I wanted – I received everything I needed.
My prayer has been answered!
 
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Taken

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What is Mystery Babylon?

A WICKED world Governing System.

“Peace and Safety”….exclaimed BY MEN…
“HOW” is nothing NEW;

Of the world…kings have historically, made men soldiers, plotted, bull rushed, confiscated lands, gained wealth, power, position, killed the opposed, Oppressed and Controlled the people at large, and Eliminated the People at Large determined to be no further useful.

In 1945, a NEW intragoverning Power was established…by agreement OF FIVE outstanding in Nations IN POWER and. LAND CONTROL….WHO designated “THEMSELVES” PERMANENT Members; to whit THEY would decide WHO could JOIN, and WHO THEY could EXPEL from their EXCLUSIVE “gang”.

THEY ARE….by their own DEGREE…
“THE” United Nations “SECURITY COUNCIL”… (peace and safety THEIR MISSION, by all means possible)

FIVE PERMANENT MEMBERS…
Head Quarters…New York, USA.
United Kingdom
United States of America
France
* Republic of China….changed to:
** People’s Republic of China
* Union of Soviet Socialists Republics…
** Changed to: Russian Federation

SUB-NATIONS UNIONS…(for example)
Arab Nations Unions
European Nations Unions.

European Nations Union…
Headquarters…Brussels, Belgium
Woman riding Bull Statue. (Europa…backstory of mythical gods)

IN Short;
Men have established NATIONS over NATIONS…under the guise of PEACE and SAFETY.

Nations ARE referenced in the FEMININE connotations.

Conflicts, Disputes Between Nations have Continued SINCE the establishment of the UN… with the council meeting and deciding which SIDE they will FUND!

Nothing new with MEN sitting in Governing Seats…orchestrating wars!

World powers of “men” have risen and fallen.
Currently the UN is a world governing power.
Israel is continuously in a conflict holding a defense line.
Israel is in Completion of All things necessary to Re-BUILD a Temple. (Stymied by LAND Location).

Men are equipped to SET one Person IN a Permanent “king” (or whatever title), Position over the WHOLE World.
(Currently, they elect and appoint an “appeasing” new “President” ( I believe it is every 6 months).

Whomever becomes the “person”, elected or appointed to a Permanent “king” of the UN, governing over all World Nations…
WILL suffer a Mortal Wound, for all the World (with modern technology) to see.

Miraculously, the mortal dead “king”…SHALL (be supposed) to resume Living (again the world shall see (modern technology)…

AND (SHALL be the spirit of “THE” anti-Christ….Satan)….and people SHALL be in AWE. At a given point in Time, He SHALL, stand in the “TEMPLE”….(not yet constructed)….and proclaim Himself to be…
“GOD”.

What is the BEAST?
Corrupted Nations
,
headed up by Corrupt Wicked men….
Who is the BEAST?
An EVIL world empire.

Headed up by Evil Satan.

For HOW LONG?
A little season.

Glory to God,
Taken













 

Lizbeth

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What was the old quote, I prayed for love God gave me someone who was hard to love?

Here it is:
I asked for strength,
And God gave me difficulties to make me strong;

I asked for wisdom,
And God gave me problems to learn to solve;

I asked for prosperity,
And God gave me brain and brawn to work;

I asked for courage,
And God gave me dangers to overcome;

I asked for love,
And God gave me people to help;

I asked for favors,
And God gave me opportunities.

I received nothing I wanted – I received everything I needed.
My prayer has been answered!
Amen. It is through much tribulation that we enter the kingdom of heaven. Ask to be better in whatever way and the Lord sends the right tribulation along that we need to have our prayer answered. :) Eg, afflictions teach patience.
 
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Ronald David Bruno

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What is Mystery Babylon?

A WICKED world Governing System.

“Peace and Safety”….exclaimed BY MEN…
“HOW” is nothing NEW;

Of the world…kings have historically, made men soldiers, plotted, bull rushed, confiscated lands, gained wealth, power, position, killed the opposed, Oppressed and Controlled the people at large, and Eliminated the People at Large determined to be no further useful.

In 1945, a NEW intragoverning Power was established…by agreement OF FIVE outstanding in Nations IN POWER and. LAND CONTROL….WHO designated “THEMSELVES” PERMANENT Members; to whit THEY would decide WHO could JOIN, and WHO THEY could EXPEL from their EXCLUSIVE “gang”.

THEY ARE….by their own DEGREE…
“THE” United Nations “SECURITY COUNCIL”… (peace and safety THEIR MISSION, by all means possible)

FIVE PERMANENT MEMBERS…
Head Quarters…New York, USA.
United Kingdom
United States of America
France
* Republic of China….changed to:
** People’s Republic of China
* Union of Soviet Socialists Republics…
** Changed to: Russian Federation

SUB-NATIONS UNIONS…(for example)
Arab Nations Unions
European Nations Unions.

European Nations Union…
Headquarters…Brussels, Belgium
Woman riding Bull Statue. (Europa…backstory of mythical gods)

IN Short;
Men have established NATIONS over NATIONS…under the guise of PEACE and SAFETY.

Nations ARE referenced in the FEMININE connotations.

Conflicts, Disputes Between Nations have Continued SINCE the establishment of the UN… with the council meeting and deciding which SIDE they will FUND!

Nothing new with MEN sitting in Governing Seats…orchestrating wars!

World powers of “men” have risen and fallen.
Currently the UN is a world governing power.
Israel is continuously in a conflict holding a defense line.
Israel is in Completion of All things necessary to Re-BUILD a Temple. (Stymied by LAND Location).

Men are equipped to SET one Person IN a Permanent “king” (or whatever title), Position over the WHOLE World.
(Currently, they elect and appoint an “appeasing” new “President” ( I believe it is every 6 months).

Whomever becomes the “person”, elected or appointed to a Permanent “king” of the UN, governing over all World Nations…
WILL suffer a Mortal Wound, for all the World (with modern technology) to see.

Miraculously, the mortal dead “king”…SHALL (be supposed) to resume Living (again the world shall see (modern technology)…

AND (SHALL be the spirit of “THE” anti-Christ….Satan)….and people SHALL be in AWE. At a given point in Time, He SHALL, stand in the “TEMPLE”….(not yet constructed)….and proclaim Himself to be…
“GOD”.

What is the BEAST?
Corrupted Nations
,
headed up by Corrupt Wicked men….
Who is the BEAST?
An EVIL world empire.

Headed up by Evil Satan.

For HOW LONG?
A little season.

Glory to God,
Taken
Thanks for getting this thread back on track , we'll maybe.
As I also brought to the attention of Episkopos in posts #69 & # 82, BABYLON IS THE EVIL WORLD SYSTEM composed of all false religions, philosophies, the occult, Astrology, all generated out of that ancient city, Babylon. When God confused their languages, they scattered and brought with them all the junk that evolved into what we see today.
And as you also suggest the formation of this One World Government is where secular man had come along with his false beliefs.
It seems this "United Nations" long ago set out to accomplish what it first began with a tower to heaven, to shape the world, create a Utopia, be like God.
This One World secular government cannot create a Utopia either - with sin in the world.
But make no mistake, all the nations and people's have fornicated with this prostitute, Babylon.
Christians have been taken out of this world, though we live in it, we are not of it.
 

APAK

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Mystery Babylon is identified and much spoken of in the scriptures.....here I'll share what the Lord has been gracious to show me thus far on this:

Rev 18:2

And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

Jer 5:22-31

Fear ye not me? saith the LORD: will ye not tremble at my presence, which have placed the sand for the bound of the sea by a perpetual decree, that it cannot pass it: and though the waves thereof toss themselves, yet can they not prevail; though they roar, yet can they not pass over it?

But this people hath a revolting and a rebellious heart; they are revolted and gone.

Neither say they in their heart, Let us now fear the LORD our God, that giveth rain, both the former and the latter, in his season: he reserveth unto us the appointed weeks of the harvest.

Your iniquities have turned away these things, and your sins have withholden good things from you.

For among my people are found wicked men: they lay wait, as he that setteth snares; they set a trap, they catch men.

As a cage is full of birds, so are their houses full of deceit: therefore they are become great, and waxen rich.

They are waxen fat, they shine: yea, they overpass the deeds of the wicked: they judge not the cause, the cause of the fatherless, yet they prosper; and the right of the needy do they not judge.

Shall I not visit for these things? saith the LORD: shall not my soul be avenged on such a nation as this?

A wonderful and horrible thing is committed in the land;

The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love to have it so: and what will ye do in the end thereof?



Rev 18:12

The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,

Rev 18:16

And saying, Alas, alas, that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!



Exo 25:4

And blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine linen, and goats' hair,

Exo 26:1

Moreover thou shalt make the tabernacle with ten curtains of fine twined linen, and blue, and purple, and scarlet: with cherubims of cunning work shalt thou make them.

Exo 26:31

And thou shalt make a vail of blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen of cunning work: with cherubims shall it be made:

Exo 26:36

And thou shalt make an hanging for the door of the tent, of blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen, wrought with needlework.

Exo 27:16

And for the gate of the court shall be an hanging of twenty cubits, of blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen, wrought with needlework: and their pillars shall be four, and their sockets four.

Exo 28:5

And they shall take gold, and blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine linen.

Exo 28:6

And they shall make the ephod of gold, of blue, and of purple, of scarlet, and fine twined linen, with cunning work.





Rev 18:24

“And in her was found the blood of prophets and saints, and of all who were slain on the earth.”


Luk 11:47-51

Woe unto you! for ye build the sepulchres of the prophets, and your fathers killed them.
Truly ye bear witness that ye allow the deeds of your fathers: for they indeed killed them, and ye build their sepulchres.
Therefore also said the wisdom of God, I will send them prophets and apostles, and some of them they shall slay and persecute:
That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation;
From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias, which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required of this generation.



MYSTERY BABYLON IS A HOUSE OF MERCHANDISE, OF BUYING AND SELLING:



Rev 18:9-19

And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,

Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.

And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:

The merchandise
of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,

And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.

And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all.

The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing,

And saying, Alas, alas, that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!

For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,

And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!

And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.

(These kings and merchants of the earth are talking about the fleshly/earthly/worldly “kings”- priests, pastors, ministers within God’s own house, who bear rule by their own means, not by the Spirit – speaks to Israel of old as well as the church - it’s not talking about those of the world.)

Rev 13:17

And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.



Rev 18:3

For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.



Mark 11:12-17

And on the morrow, when they were come from Bethany, he was hungry:

And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find any thing thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not yet.

And Jesus answered and said unto it, No man eat fruit of thee hereafter for ever. And his disciples heard it.

And they come to Jerusalem: and Jesus went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves;

And would not suffer that any man should carry any vessel through the temple.

And he taught, saying unto them, Is it not written, My house shall be called of all nations the house of prayer? but ye have made it a den of thieves.

And the scribes and chief priests heard it, and sought how they might destroy him: for they feared him, because all the people was astonished at his doctrine.

And when even was come, he went out of the city.

And in the morning, as they passed by, they saw the fig tree dried up from the roots.



Jhn 2:13-17

And the Jews' passover was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem,And found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting:

And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables;

And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father's house an house of merchandise.

And his disciples remembered that it was written, The zeal of thine house hath eaten me up.



2Pe 2:1-4

But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.

And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;…………..
Excellent revelation Liz...sounds like and describes only one place on the earth, the city of Jerusalem, the seat of
world (known world) corruption and iniquity of all kinds, inhabitants like hateful birds and spirits, living within the walls, as a cage, along with its useless Temple, as a market place of wares to buy and sell, and all destroyed by 70 AD......who could figure this out....? Evidentially not too many by what I read on these threads on this site alone.
 
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APAK

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Yes, very true. Mystery Babylon and mystery of iniquity/lawlessness is about the house of God turned into a sinful and covetous house of merchandise......important to understand that it manifested first with Israel/Jerusalem which was judged/destroyed and house left desolate in 70 AD, and it manifests also in Christendom...which is awaiting a day of judgment. Those scriptures are describing so clearly today's church too, unfortunately. Many false teachers/prophets waxing rich in the trafficking/trading of their wares of false doctrines, and capturing souls of men. And I believe this is all sadly leading back to Jerusalem again, so we need to be watchful and awake!
Yes, the single, dual and triple meanings of a different time, and a different space or place, and different purpose in prophecy is clear, well to some at least.

That the 2nd Babylon Yahshua and John and others spoke about was crucial because of it impending doom, in that generation, as spoken of in Rev. The time for Jerusalem and its imminent destruction as the center of evil in their time. To then make way for the final version of rebellion up to when the earth and the lost are destroyed.

And depending on your version of Eschatology and I'm not pre-mill type, we are now living in the post 70 AD era of a longer symbolic 1000 year time frame that is obviously longer than a literal 1000 years. Of the eventual final destruction of the 3rd Babel/Babylon.

And as you said, in part, with my own words, it comes to and initially by this deceptive thing we call Christendom (Catholicism and Protestantism and the many strays) and along with other major religions (Judaism, Islam etc.) and philosophies of belief (including Confucianism), even Darwinism, I might say. They are all a part of the final and and grandest of the three Babylonian deceptions and rebellions against their Creator.

Its final form might be logically a major compromise of all religions and beliefs in a form of humanism of a new and final state. I see many shades of it today coming about. And this global religion is not labelled as a religion of old, as before and easily recognizable. It will be infused over time into society, as it is now happening, as the norm, the way of belief, the way to fill the void of belief that all humans are wired for. It will fill the void of identity and legitimacy in this life only I'm afraid, that is fleeting and terminal.

And to think this thing called Babylon all started from the Garden and then continued after the Flood with the erection of a 'high tower' of self-centeredness, self-identity, as the height of rebellion, over and towards their all loving Creator God, our one and only true Father of all spirits.....
 
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Episkopos

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Thanks for getting this thread back on track , we'll maybe.
As I also brought to the attention of Episkopos in posts #69 & # 82, BABYLON IS THE EVIL WORLD SYSTEM composed of all false religions, philosophies, the occult, Astrology, all generated out of that ancient city, Babylon. When God confused their languages, they scattered and brought with them all the junk that evolved into what we see today.
And as you also suggest the formation of this One World Government is where secular man had come along with his false beliefs.
It seems this "United Nations" long ago set out to accomplish what it first began with a tower to heaven, to shape the world, create a Utopia, be like God.
This One World secular government cannot create a Utopia either - with sin in the world.
But make no mistake, all the nations and people's have fornicated with this prostitute, Babylon.
Christians have been taken out of this world, though we live in it, we are not of it.
The bible is not very good at commenting on our various political situations...no mention of republicans or democrats...yet is it very good at going into an in depth analysis of the state of the church and God's people. Degrading the biblical warnings to political events...is precisely what unbelievers do. The Jews will right-off the passages about Lucifer as a historic king of Babylon. They don't see anything beyond what can be plainly understood by the inquiring carnal mind. Those who have a deeper understanding of spiritual matters will see that the devil reigns over the confusion that we create for ourselves as we try to build God's kingdom for Him.

When Jesus declared that unless people ate of His flesh and drank of His blood they could have no life in them...many Jews...very practical people...forsook Him. Of course we have many of those same practical minded people in the pews today. But rather than forsake Jesus...these simply ignore Him as if He was a mute Lamb that only came here to serve the needs of mankind. As such He is very popular. Not so as Lord.

But Jesus asks...If you love Me why don't you listen to Me?

John 14:15 “If you love me, keep my commandments.”


Is Jesus a reporter of current or past political events? Or does He have a more spiritual and eternal purpose?
 

Ronald David Bruno

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What a long day.
I think I pee'd off every nurse and therapist and technician I could get my hands on at the hospital today.
The system is broken.
There is nothing more frustrating than me having to remind them how to do their jobs.

Babylon is fallen.
MENE, MENE, TEKEL, UPHARSIN.

The industry that should have the most compassion, I find, now has the least.
The care and attentiveness has turned to neglect and absentmindedness.

I'm angry today, and I don't know where to set it down.
I do, but I don't want to. I can't fix the system. They look in your eyes and they lie to you, they patronize you.
And you tell them you know why the system is broken, but they can't fix it either.

I waited for hours for answers. I looked for some kind of empathy or understanding, and I found we'll take care of it, and they never did.

I had to ask for dad's lunch for 2 hours after I saw the meal cart going down the hall. Where is dad's lunch?
Oh, we'll call it in. When, tomorrow? The nurse finally showed up who never read the board to put dad's amplifiers on so he could hear.
I kindly took her elbow and directed her to the board and pointed to the words written there for ALL to see.
Oh, he has trouble hearing? I held my tongue, but my mind was screaming. You know he is, but wait, no you don't because again this is the first time in four days that you ever met him, Just like the nurse the day before and the day before that and the day before that.
Ofcourse you don't know, you've never seen him.
The system is broken..

As I left today I pointed out that dad's urine is really cloudy since this morning. His kidneys are acting up. His back hurt.
And they told me they don't test unless he has an infection.
I said, HOW DO YOU KNOW IF HE HAS AN INFECTION UNLESS YOU TEST!!!?????

They will be moving him to rehab in two days. He can't sit up, he can't stand up, he can't even scratch his chin.
He cant feed himself, he cant get on the pot, it's all he can do to keep his eyes open.
And they say he's ready for rehab.

Well, HALELUIA!! Maybe there be people there that know how to take care of people rather than worry about their DEI agenda.

We read about a lot of things in the bible and we can see the justice or injustice of what's written.
But when you walk in the land of Babylon everything is fallen.

I think they are sending him to rehab so they don't have to hear me rant everday when he asks for water and they give him none, or he needs a change and says they will be there but it takes hours. Dad needs water even if a sip every hour because he is highly dehydrated.
And his IV bag is disconnected. He has rashes on his butt, and his legs hurt and they do NOTHING.


And I can't be there 24/7 which really scares me. Because I don't know what I don't know.
And at least when I'm there I can push for what he needs. YOU WOULD THINK THEY WOULD KNOW HOW TO DO THEIR JOB!!!


Don't mind me I'm just ranting. And I don't know how to set it down.
I'm tired and I can't sleep. I'm hungry but I don't want to eat.
I'm angry and I'm upset, and it's raging inside me.

I only have one dad and I don't think I'll have him much longer. And I can't do what I want to do to fix it.

The System is Broken.
Babylon has fallen.
And nobody cares except for themselves and their paycheck.

Appreciate your shoulders.
Hugs
Sorry about your Dad. Strokes happen to people of all ages. Our bodies fall apart as we get closer to death. It may sound like a coincidence, that the vaccines caused the stroke, but I don't think so. The Covid vaccine causes blood clots and that is a fact. My 18 year old nephew had a blog clot in his lungs and had to go to the emergency. They called it some rare disorder - sure. My mother-in- law had two clots in her heart - after the vax. My uncle who was an athlete all his life, just had stroke after the vaccine. My wife is now suffering from rheumatoid arthritis, (that is common with older folks), but "auto immune disease" is something that some doctors were claiming hitches a ride with the Covid vaccine too!
You can't prove it, and Big Pharma is immune to any lawsuits, so we just need to move on. I warned my wife not to take it, but she did and now she is suffering. Oh well. Your Dad is 89 years old, he lived a long life. It is common that at that age, your appetite goes, you don't drink enough water and it's all downhill ... but then it's upward, to heaven. This is our hope.
 
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Ronald David Bruno

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Is Jesus a reporter of current or past political events? Or does He have a more spiritual and eternal purpose?
Oh I think Jesus is very precise when it comes to who is in charge, where and how long and all current events are under His authority.
Romans 13:1 Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God.
All events throughout history have led to this moment where the world is right now. It has been prophesied exactly what will happen and we can see it happening.
The world system is being judged and will go down.

Of course He has the eternal spiritual purpose, salvation of His sheep, but judgment of sin, the world and then a major overhall transformation of the world is on His agenda.
 
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APAK

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Oh I think Jesus is very precise when it comes to who is in charge, where and how long and all current events are under His authority.
Romans 13:1 Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God.
All currents throughout history ha e led to this moment where the world is right now. It has been prophesied exactly what will happen and we can see it happening.
The world system is being judged and will go down.
I second that motion to say the Christ our lord and Savior with access to his father, with full authority today, knows the exact stroke of time when all these events are occurring and in the future, till the end of it all.
 

Ronald David Bruno

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Those who have a deeper understanding of spiritual matters will see that the devil reigns over the confusion that we create for ourselves as we try to build God's kingdom for Him.
Satan certainly reigns over the unbelievers confusion and the false religions outside of Christianity, atheism, occult etc. Btw, we aren't building His Kingdom, He is. He let's us participate, but His will, His perfect plan, is done and always has been done and will be done as He ordained it so. That is His sovereignty and providence.
 
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Episkopos

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Satan certainly reigns over the unbelievers confusion and the false religions outside of Christianity, atheism, occult etc. Btw, we aren't building His Kingdom, He is. He let's us participate, but His will, His perfect plan, is done and always has been done and will be done as He ordained it so. That is His sovereignty and providence.
I see this kind of head-in-the-sand position from a number of posters here. Everything that is bad or wrong is done exclusively by unbelievers.

The Laodiceans?...whom the bible calls a church?...well the bible is wrong...they are obviously non-believers. :oops:

Those who are judged personally by Jesus AS IF they were His people...who claim to have done miraculous things in His name (basically ministers of the gospel)...and told "get away from Me...I never knew you". OBVIOUSLY these are unbelievers. ;):rolleyes:

Or the natural branches being cut off and the wild branches (us) being grafted in ...and that we can just as easily be cut off? Obviously not me. It's those unbelievers again. :ummm:

Judgment day is going to be a real shock to so many.
 
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Ziggy

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What was the old quote, I prayed for love God gave me someone who was hard to love?

Here it is:
I asked for strength,
And God gave me difficulties to make me strong;

I asked for wisdom,
And God gave me problems to learn to solve;

I asked for prosperity,
And God gave me brain and brawn to work;

I asked for courage,
And God gave me dangers to overcome;

I asked for love,
And God gave me people to help;

I asked for favors,
And God gave me opportunities.

I received nothing I wanted – I received everything I needed.
My prayer has been answered!
Today I asked for Peace and God gave me a sword.

And I didn't want to use it, but I was having so much trouble convincing the doctor that my dad needed anti-biotics and fluid, AFTER CONFIRMING THIS MORNING HE HAD A URINE INFECTION WHICH I MENTIONED 2 DAYS AGO....

So while they are telling me I need to listen to the science...
I told her she better listen to me or I'll sue the hospital for malpractice and neglect and she'd be the first one I'd subpeona.

2 hours later...

Dad is on antibiotics and they got the IV going with the fluid.
Maybe I can now find the Peace I prayed for this morning.
I know I feel better knowing he isn't dyhydrating to death and his kidneys shutting down.

Thank You Lord Jesus
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Ziggy

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Excellent revelation Liz...sounds like and describes only one place on the earth, the city of Jerusalem, the seat of
world (known world) corruption and iniquity of all kinds, inhabitants like hateful birds and spirits, living within the walls, as a cage, along with its useless Temple, as a market place of wares to buy and sell, and all destroyed by 70 AD......who could figure this out....? Evidentially not too many by what I read on these threads on this site alone.
The physical was destroyed, but is it possible that this is the spirit of iniquity that is still moving about through the world?
thinking
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Ronald David Bruno

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I see this kind of head-in-the-sand position from a number of posters here. Everything that is bad or wrong is done exclusively by unbelievers.
Head in the sand? Oh, and you are on the higher walk -- in the clouds?
We are all sinners and have done the same things as the unbelievers. What's the difference? We have been forgiven and follow Christ AND soon will be taken out of the world. Trip and fall we may, but as my Pastor used to say, " Fall forward, get up and continue the walk". Jesus' yoke is easy and His burden is light.
Obviously, if we are walking in the Spirit and cooperating with the Holy Spirit, then we will do things differently than the world does. It is and has been a better life for me. I have a different perspective, different values, faith and hope that unbelievers do not. I have been reconciled to God ( which is our soul purpose in life btw) and I commune with Him, it is very comforting to know why we are here and where we are going.
So the unbleievers live for other things. I focus on things above.
The unbelievers are not following Him, they don't know Him and so go their own ways, led by Satan.
The Laodiceans?...whom the bible calls a church?...well the bible is wrong...they are obviously non-believers. :oops:
They were rich, neither hot nor cold. Real believers? Not likely, they were the types who go to be seen, go through the motions, put on the smiley faces, but are not really plugged into he Lord. Why do I say that?
>> I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see. As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be zealous and repent. Rev. 3:18-19

You see, they were not believers, born again. They were blind, not clothed in Christ - but He loves them, still knocking, telling them to repent. I believe some of them listened and came around - just needed to be rebuked, chastised.

Those who are judged personally by Jesus AS IF they were His people...who claim to have done miraculous things in His name (basically ministers of the gospel)...and told "get away from Me...I never knew you". OBVIOUSLY these are unbelievers.
This is a common misinterpretation of Matthew 7:22-23. Matthew was written to Hebrew Christians ( not only), but it has a Hebrew theme and messages all through it. It begins with a Hebrew geneology, an introduction to their Messiah. Gentiles initially would not relate to this.
This particular passage is a case in point, where the context speaks of those who have been given knowledge, prophecies, they, throughout their history have seen miracles, were given the Law, tasted the work of God - the Hebrews experienced all this.
"Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’
And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

The Gentiles never knew God, they didn't have the privilege that the Hebrews had, nor the experiences. They did not take part in the chosen nation. They wouldn't be making these claims as the Jews. So it will be, (even though they had this history with God), for many of the Jews in the end times, who will still reject Jesus to their death, a conviction of guilty will come upon them and they will attempt to plead innocent . Their argument will be "works related". They lived by the Law and so will he judged by the Law. . Of course they will then address Him as "Lord, Lord ... didn't we do this, didn't we do that ...", "When did we see You naked and did not feed you?"
Jesus says "I never knew you" ( meaning we did not have a relationship) and so away from me.
A Jewish remnant will be saved ( Rom. 11), but many will not. And they will plead with Him on the Great White Throne Judgment Day.
During their lives, they supported eachother and did not give to Christians, did not support their cause or feed them, they only helped their own, which is why many despise them. Jesus explains to them, "in as much as you helped the least of my sheep, you helped Me." So their works are judged and they failed.

Or the natural branches being cut off and the wild branches (us) being grafted in ...and that we can just as easily be cut off? Obviously not me. It's those unbelievers again
God warns us, as a a parent puts fear into us to keep us in line. Even sometimes a threat like, "I will cut you off if you do not abide in me". We are to fear God. Once He makes that clear, we begin to take Him seriously.

*Sorry, this post needed editing corrections, mostly spelling.
 
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Ziggy

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They were rich, neither hot nor cold. Real believers likely the were the types who go to be seen, go through the motions, put on the smiley faces, but are not really plugged into he Lord. Why do I say that?
>> I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see. As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be zealous and repent. Rev. 3:18-19
This reminds me of the young man who asked what must I do to be saved, and Jesus says keep the commandments.
The young man says he does them all, and Jesus says he still lacked one thing.

Now Jesus mentions a couple things here.
1. Sell all you have
2. give to the poor
3. take up your cross and follow me.

So we see that this young man had a zeal for the law, but he had no knowledge as to what pleased God.

And when Jesus showed the young man what pleased God, he walked away sorrowful because he was very rich.
His own richness or righteousness he determined should have been enough, seeing he had done all was commanded him of the law.

This I see is the Hot.

His lack of wanting to obey the "voice" of the Lord and follow him/ Which included not relying on his own riches or his own righteousness, and having hospitality and charity. He was very self-ish.

This I see is the Cold.

So what then? The Laodiceans were very zealous for the law, Hot, but had no charity, Cold. Or they had a little of both?

Rev 3:14
And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
Rev 3:15
I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
Rev 3:16
So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
Rev 3:17
Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

So there is a letter from Paul directed to the church of the Laodiceans:
And that would be the letter to Colossians:

Col 4:15
Salute the brethren which are in Laodicea, and Nymphas, and the church which is in his house.
Col 4:16
And when this epistle is read among you, cause that it be read also in the church of the Laodiceans; and that ye likewise read the epistle from Laodicea.
Col 4:17
And say to Archippus, Take heed to the ministry which thou hast received in the Lord, that thou fulfil it.

And appearently Archippus is the candle of that church?

Col 4:15
Salute the brethren which are in Laodicea, and Nymphas, and the church which is in his house.
Col 4:16
And when this epistle is read among you, cause that it be read also in the church of the Laodiceans; and that ye likewise read the epistle from Laodicea.
Col 4:17
And say to Archippus, Take heed to the ministry which thou hast received in the Lord, that thou fulfil it.

Chapter 2 Paul begins with what great conflict I have for you. The conflict between Hot and Cold.
Listen:

It speaks of following Christ and not being caught up in the rudiments of the world.
Which is basically what Jesus to the young man who believed he had the right to eternal life through the law,
But Jesus told him he would need to have faith to follow him.

I believe this is the message to the church at Laodicea.

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Ziggy

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Mat 19:20
The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
Mat 19:21
Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
Mat 19:22
But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.
Mat 19:23
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 19:24
And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
Mat 19:25
When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?
Mat 19:26
But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

But with God all things are possible:

Rev 3:18
I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
Rev 3:19
As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
Rev 3:20
Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
Rev 3:21
To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
Rev 3:22
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

I counsel thee. Behold I stand at the door and knock.

Col 3:1
If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
Col 3:2
Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
Col 3:3
For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
Col 3:4
When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

Col 3:12
Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
Col 3:13
Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.
Col 3:14
And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.
Col 3:15
And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful.
Col 3:16
Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
Col 3:17
And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

Rom 13:14
But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.
And with God all things are possible.


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Ronald David Bruno

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So what then? The Laodiceans were very zealous for the law, Hot, but had no charity, Cold. Or they had a little of both?
I interpret "hot" as inspired by the Lord, hungry for His Word, seeking Him earnestly.
I see "cold" as uninterested, lack of motivation, complacent, but also unloving.
I see the rich Laodiceans, in need of nothing as not really evil but not really doing much good for anybody but themselves. They may be law abiding citizens (like most Americans for example who think they are good people), giving a little out of their abundance, going to church, pleasant, amiable, sociable. But the Lord sees them as "wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked". The Laodicean church certainly got off the path, a contrast from their beginings.

Actually, by the world standards, Americans are rich. Even our middle class would be considered rich, always wanting more but not really in need of much. Likely all Americans have more and live financially better than the 1st century Laodiceans.
Most Americans might consider themselves Christians and "good people". I think a recent poll claimed 63% of Americans claimed to be Christians. My guess would be more like 40% - but I don't know. I always figured that percentage equivalent to regular Church goers.
Nevertheless, I see the Seven Churches of Revelation as Church types through the Church Age. We can see the same strengths and weaknesses today.
Hopefully, you are attending a Philadelphia type church. But generally there is a mixed bag within each Church.
I can tell you, I have been in churches like Ephesus and Sardis, met people like the Laodiceans (many), heard of churches like Smyrna in countries like South Sudan ...

So there is a letter from Paul directed to the church of the Laodiceans:
And that would be the letter to Colossians:
Keep in mind Paul wrote that letter in the early 60's. The Laodicean Church was in good shape then. Revelation was written around 95AD. Lots of things happened in 30 years. Many of those people might have been dead? Needless to say, a congregation can quickly go off track, especially when the true believers depart, tares come in and corrupt it.
 
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Episkopos

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This reminds me of the young man who asked what must I do to be saved, and Jesus says keep the commandments.
The young man says he does them all, and Jesus says he still lacked one thing.

Now Jesus mentions a couple things here.
1. Sell all you have
2. give to the poor
3. take up your cross and follow me.

So we see that this young man had a zeal for the law, but he had no knowledge as to what pleased God.

And when Jesus showed the young man what pleased God, he walked away sorrowful because he was very rich.
His own richness or righteousness he determined should have been enough, seeing he had done all was commanded him of the law.

This I see is the Hot.

His lack of wanting to obey the "voice" of the Lord and follow him/ Which included not relying on his own riches or his own righteousness, and having hospitality and charity. He was very self-ish.

This I see is the Cold.

So what then? The Laodiceans were very zealous for the law, Hot, but had no charity, Cold. Or they had a little of both?

Rev 3:14
And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
Rev 3:15
I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
Rev 3:16
So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
Rev 3:17
Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

So there is a letter from Paul directed to the church of the Laodiceans:
And that would be the letter to Colossians:

Col 4:15
Salute the brethren which are in Laodicea, and Nymphas, and the church which is in his house.
Col 4:16
And when this epistle is read among you, cause that it be read also in the church of the Laodiceans; and that ye likewise read the epistle from Laodicea.
Col 4:17
And say to Archippus, Take heed to the ministry which thou hast received in the Lord, that thou fulfil it.

And appearently Archippus is the candle of that church?

Col 4:15
Salute the brethren which are in Laodicea, and Nymphas, and the church which is in his house.
Col 4:16
And when this epistle is read among you, cause that it be read also in the church of the Laodiceans; and that ye likewise read the epistle from Laodicea.
Col 4:17
And say to Archippus, Take heed to the ministry which thou hast received in the Lord, that thou fulfil it.

Chapter 2 Paul begins with what great conflict I have for you. The conflict between Hot and Cold.
Listen:

It speaks of following Christ and not being caught up in the rudiments of the world.
Which is basically what Jesus to the young man who believed he had the right to eternal life through the law,
But Jesus told him he would need to have faith to follow him.

I believe this is the message to the church at Laodicea.

Hugs
Being either hot or cold are seen by the Lord as good things. It's being neither that is the problem. I'm referring here to the Laodicean church mentioned in Rev. 3.

Being hot (on fire) I think is easy to understand...this means being holy. Our God is a consuming fire.

What I think is less understood concerns righteousness. COLD is righteousness. How? People who wrote the bible lived in a hot place....even desert conditions. For them a cup of cold water is refreshing. A welcomed break in the heat of the day. Like a glass of iced lemonade on a hot day. So then cold is about being refreshed by acts of righteousness.

Jesus even uses this idea when He says...

"And whosoever shall give to drink unto one of these little ones a cup of cold water only in the name of a disciple, verily I say unto you, he shall in no wise lose his reward." Matt. 10:42

In the above verse it just says "a cup of cold" (no mention of what is cold being offered). So then cold is a good thing.

The disciple represents holiness (hot). Those who refresh the disciples (with cold)...these are righteous.

Now, the way people have mixed up doctrines of the bible to twist them into something the carnal mind can understand...thus destroying both holiness and righteousness...both hot and cold..so that all we are left with is the lukewarm compromise that has no value to God or His people.
 
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Lizbeth

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The bible is not very good at commenting on our various political situations...no mention of republicans or democrats...yet is it very good at going into an in depth analysis of the state of the church and God's people. Degrading the biblical warnings to political events...is precisely what unbelievers do. The Jews will right-off the passages about Lucifer as a historic king of Babylon. They don't see anything beyond what can be plainly understood by the inquiring carnal mind. Those who have a deeper understanding of spiritual matters will see that the devil reigns over the confusion that we create for ourselves as we try to build God's kingdom for Him.

When Jesus declared that unless people ate of His flesh and drank of His blood they could have no life in them...many Jews...very practical people...forsook Him. Of course we have many of those same practical minded people in the pews today. But rather than forsake Jesus...these simply ignore Him as if He was a mute Lamb that only came here to serve the needs of mankind. As such He is very popular. Not so as Lord.

But Jesus asks...If you love Me why don't you listen to Me?

John 14:15 “If you love me, keep my commandments.”


Is Jesus a reporter of current or past political events? Or does He have a more spiritual and eternal purpose?
But is the Lord limited to speaking on only one level? His is a voice of many waters....and His wisdom is manifold. The Spirit leads us into all truth but also tells us things to come....so that we will be warned and also not lose heart but recognize God's power and sovereignty over things that happen in this world.