Where does the Pope get his authority?

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BarneyFife

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Please share any scripture that says any specific day of the week should be deemed “holy” to a Christian?

Hi, Aunty!
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God in Christ just made it holy full stop. It was the first thing that was specifically mentioned in the Bible to be made holy by God Himself.

And for some strange reason, that idea is lost on 99% of Christians.

There is no Sabbath dispensation—just like there's no sanctity-of-life dispensation, property rights dispensation, sexual purity dispensation.

There's just law and lawlessness. It's simple. I mean, it's really hard to do a lot of explaining about something that's just so simple.

:hearteyes:
.
 

Brakelite

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My thoughts on that are this...

We cannot live by faith in what Christ has done for us and still think our obedience to written laws are necessary. To do so takes away from the perfect work of Christ and places salvation and righteousness back in our own hands.
So Christ's Atonement takes away any obligation to obey?
If a traffic officer tickets you for speeding, then in mercy writes a cheque to pay your fine, does that remove your obligation to observe traffic rules in the future, or enhance that obligation?
 
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BarneyFife

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And being so simple, it takes ultra complicated theories and ideas in order to resist acknowledging it's relevance.

It's just so obvious. Murderers don't go to as much trouble to justify their misdeeds.

I didn't put the Sabbath law on the same list. God did that.

But I'm glad He did. I would never have "gotten it" otherwise.

:hearteyes:
.
 

Peterlag

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So Christ's Atonement takes away any obligation to obey?
If a traffic officer tickets you for speeding, then in mercy writes a cheque to pay your fine, does that remove your obligation to observe traffic rules in the future, or enhance that obligation?
When I use the word Law I'm referring to the Mosaic Law and I assume if I'm talking to adults on a Christian site that they will realize this.
 
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RedFan

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His disciples were Jewish. Christians did not exist until Jesus left the planet.
Obviously there were no Christians yet when Jesus made this speech to his disciples. But he was speaking of a future end-time, when there WOULD be Christians -- lots of them (including the disciples he was addressing) -- and he was suggesting prayer that flight would not be necessary on the Sabbath THEN.

My Bible's version of Matthew's speech to his disciples in chapter 24 does not say "The Jews should pray that it doesn't happen on the Sabbath, but you guys won't need to concern yourself with that." Does yours?
 

Peterlag

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Obviously there were no Christians yet when Jesus made this speech to his disciples. But he was speaking of a future end-time, when there WOULD be Christians -- lots of them (including the disciples he was addressing) -- and he was suggesting prayer that flight would not be necessary on the Sabbath THEN.

My Bible's version of Matthew's speech to his disciples in chapter 24 does not say "The Jews should pray that it doesn't happen on the Sabbath, but you guys won't need to concern yourself with that." Does yours?
Maybe this will help...

The different time periods in the Bible are called dispensations. The Greek word for “dispensation” is “oikonomia” meaning the act of administering. The word “o’kos” means house, and “nemo” means to dispense, to weigh or deal out, as a steward or housekeeper. Therefore, the word was used to manage or administrate a household. The word is used three times in Luke 16:2-4, where it's translated “stewardship.” In four other places it's translated “dispensation.” I like the word administration because it communicates very well with our current English language. We must understand these administrations have different time periods in the Bible and each have their own beginning and their own ending—with the exception of the last one.

The first is called the Paradise administration. It was the time of innocence, the time before the fall that ends with Adam and Eve being expelled from the garden of the original paradise.

The second is the Patriarchal administration. It was the time after the fall from the Garden of Eden, but before the Law was given. This second administration ended with the coming of the Law to Moses.

The third is the Legal administration. It's suited only to Israel under the Law, and is sometimes called the Mosaic Law that terminated when Jesus Christ died.

The fourth is the Christ administration that overlapped and functioned within the Law administration. Both the Law and the Christ administration officially ended with the coming of Pentecost.

The fifth started on the day of Pentecost as recorded in the second chapter of the book of Acts. This is the present administration of Grace that is for the Church of God. It's the time period you and I now belong to because it's the Grace administration, without any distinction made between the Jew and the Gentile, which will end with the appearing of Jesus Christ.

The sixth begins with the appearing of Jesus Christ, and the gathering together of the saints. Believe it or not, this administration ends with Satan destroyed, and the great white throne judgment.

The seventh is the Glory or Paradise administration, which will not have an ending.

Administrations must be adapted to the time periods in which they are carried out. The administration with Adam before the fall was different from the one with his immediate family after the fall. The administration with Israel “under the law” was carried out on different principles from the present administration of Grace. This present administration is different from the one that will characterize the return of Christ. The administration of Judgment will be different from the one that will belong to the administration of Glory, when all things shall be gathered together in one under the headship of Christ.

We will never understand the truth of God’s Word if we neglect to rightly divide the subject matter. As far as we are concerned in this Grace administration, what happened to Israel in the Old Testament was written for our learning. If we do not rightly divide to whom it's addressed—the Jew, Gentile, or the Church of God, we will use one truth to contradict another truth, and we will use what is true for one group in contrast to what is also true for another group.
 
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RedFan

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Maybe this will help...

The different time periods in the Bible are called dispensations. The Greek word for “dispensation” is “oikonomia” meaning the act of administering. The word “o’kos” means house, and “nemo” means to dispense, to weigh or deal out, as a steward or housekeeper. Therefore, the word was used to manage or administrate a household. The word is used three times in Luke 16:2-4, where it's translated “stewardship.” In four other places it's translated “dispensation.” I like the word administration because it communicates very well with our current English language. We must understand these administrations have different time periods in the Bible and each have their own beginning and their own ending—with the exception of the last one.

The first is called the Paradise administration. It was the time of innocence, the time before the fall that ends with Adam and Eve being expelled from the garden of the original paradise.

The second is the Patriarchal administration. It was the time after the fall from the Garden of Eden, but before the Law was given. This second administration ended with the coming of the Law to Moses.

The third is the Legal administration. It's suited only to Israel under the Law, and is sometimes called the Mosaic Law that terminated when Jesus Christ died.

The fourth is the Christ administration that overlapped and functioned within the Law administration. Both the Law and the Christ administration officially ended with the coming of Pentecost.

The fifth started on the day of Pentecost as recorded in the second chapter of the book of Acts. This is the present administration of Grace that is for the Church of God. It's the time period you and I now belong to because it's the Grace administration, without any distinction made between the Jew and the Gentile, which will end with the appearing of Jesus Christ.

The sixth begins with the appearing of Jesus Christ, and the gathering together of the saints. Believe it or not, this administration ends with Satan destroyed, and the great white throne judgment.

The seventh is the Glory or Paradise administration, which will not have an ending.

Administrations must be adapted to the time periods in which they are carried out. The administration with Adam before the fall was different from the one with his immediate family after the fall. The administration with Israel “under the law” was carried out on different principles from the present administration of Grace. This present administration is different from the one that will characterize the return of Christ. The administration of Judgment will be different from the one that will belong to the administration of Glory, when all things shall be gathered together in one under the headship of Christ.

We will never understand the truth of God’s Word if we neglect to rightly divide the subject matter. As far as we are concerned in this Grace administration, what happened to Israel in the Old Testament was written for our learning. If we do not rightly divide to whom it's addressed—the Jew, Gentile, or the Church of God, we will use one truth to contradict another truth, and we will use what is true for one group in contrast to what is also true for another group.
It doesn't help at all. Jesus told his disciples "privately" (Matt. 24:3) to pray that the end times would not require a Sabbath flight (Matt. 24:20), knowing that they would be Christians at that time (whether occurring during the Fifth Administration or Sixth Administration or whatever you want to designate it). It's clear that Christians being required to keep the Sabbath doesn't fit your philosophy, so you are going to ignore the logical meaning of Matt. 24:20 no matter what. So be it.
 

Peterlag

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It doesn't help at all. Jesus told his disciples "privately" (Matt. 24:3) to pray that the end times would not require a Sabbath flight (Matt. 24:20), knowing that they would be Christians at that time (whether occurring during the Fifth Administration or Sixth Administration or whatever you want to designate it). It's clear that Christians being required to keep the Sabbath doesn't fit your philosophy, so you are going to ignore the logical meaning of Matt. 24:20 no matter what. So be it.
I'm going to ignore Matthew 24:20 because it does not agree with the entire New Testament that started with the book of Acts. I would have to rip the book of Romans, Galatians, and Ephesians right out of the Bible to try to fit Matthew 24:20 into the Christian doctrine.
 

Brakelite

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When I use the word Law I'm referring to the Mosaic Law and I assume if I'm talking to adults on a Christian site that they will realize this.
I'm very glad to hear that, but I wouldn't be as confident as you in forum members being so discerning. Most, because they are opposed to the 4th Commandment, are too prone to admit to any difference between God's law and the Mosaic law.
 

RedFan

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I'm going to ignore Matthew 24:20 because it does not agree with the entire New Testament that started with the book of Acts. I would have to rip the book of Romans, Galatians, and Ephesians right out of the Bible to try to fit Matthew 24:20 into the Christian doctrine.
So, you are revising your position as you go along. First you say Matt. 24:20's admonishment was addressed only to Israel (Post #479), and when called out on the illogic of that interpretation, you now say that Jesus's admonishment is to be ignored -- because other NT writers (as you interpret them) disagree with it.

To pick and choose which parts of the NT to believe and which to reject makes the written word's validity subject to your own caprice. I urge you to rethink that approach. I know you are fully invested in a particular "Christian doctrine" due to having written a self-published book you have made available online (it claims to be award-winning; which award is that?) but this is not the way, my friend!
 
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Peterlag

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So, you are revising your position as you go along. First you say Matt. 24:20's admonishment was addressed only to Israel (Post #479), and when called out on the illogic of that interpretation, you now say that Jesus's admonishment is to be ignored -- because other NT writers (as you interpret them) disagree with it.

To pick and choose which parts of the NT to believe and which to reject makes the written word's validity subject to your own caprice. I urge you to rethink that approach. I know you are fully invested in a particular "Christian doctrine" due to having written a self-published book you have made available online (it claims to be award-winning; which award is that?) but this is not the way, my friend!
From the award winning book...

What is written directly to the Jews, belongs to and is for the Jews. What is written directly to the Gentiles, belongs to and is for the Gentiles. What is written directly to the Church of God, belongs to and is for the Church of God. What does God mean when He tells us that the visions shown to Isaiah was concerning Judah and Jerusalem? It was not addressed to us or written concerning us, but it was addressed to and concerning Judah and Jerusalem. It would be dishonest for the Church of God to interpret to the Church of God what God said concerns Israel.

The present administration of God is in the time period of the New Testament known as Grace. It deals with the new covenant, and it belongs to the time that is called the administration of the mystery. It's a period in time that was not made known to any one prior to this administration because God kept it a secret since the world began. From this our Grace administration, we learn God’s secret purpose that He had placed in Himself, according to the administration of Grace, which was first revealed to the apostle Paul.

From the eighth chapter of the book of Romans, it's written to those who live in this present Grace administration, “There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus” and “that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.”

From the sixth chapter of the book of Deuteronomy, it was written to those who lived under the Law administration, “it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the Lord our God, as he hath commanded us.” However, from the third chapter of the book of Romans, it's written to those who live in this present Grace administration, “by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight.” What was written to those who lived under the Law administration is the complete opposite of what is written to us who live under the Grace administration.

We will always be in darkness and confusion regarding the truth of God’s Word if we do not understand the different administrations in the Bible. All hope for our redemption is in Jesus Christ, who was born into this world, died, and in the resurrection, he became the head of a new creation. The living resurrected Christ Jesus has become the one great subject that occupies the Word of God that the church belongs to. It's this Christ Jesus that is the key to the divine revelation in the Word of God for this our Grace administration. The contents of the New Testament must be understood in reference to Christ Jesus our Lord because the doctrine and nature of God for this our Grace administration are centered in His Christ.
 

Peterlag

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I'm very glad to hear that, but I wouldn't be as confident as you in forum members being so discerning. Most, because they are opposed to the 4th Commandment, are too prone to admit to any difference between God's law and the Mosaic law.
I wonder what the age group is on here. Most seem to want to believe immature biblical concepts not even knowing that the present administration of God is in the time period of the New Testament known as Grace. That it deals with the new covenant, and it belongs to the time that is called the administration of the mystery. They have no understanding that this is a period in time that was not made known to any one prior to this administration because God kept it a secret since the world began. They think the words of Jesus in the gospels are written to them and that which deals with our Grace administration does not apply to them. I wonder how old they are. It seems like I'm talking to children at times.
 

Aunty Jane

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Jesus told his disciples "privately" (Matt. 24:3) to pray that the end times would not require a Sabbath flight (Matt. 24:20), knowing that they would be Christians at that time.
Since Jesus was addressing Jews who were still bound to the law and the old covenant, Sabbath rules would apply until the law was done way with by Jesus’ sacrificial death. When giving his instructions, his Jewish disciples would likely have wondered about traveling on the Sabbath. Prayer would put their mind at ease. But when instituting the new covenant, Jeremiah foretold that it was not going to be like the old one. (Jer 31:31-32)

Since this was prophesied, why assume that anything under the old covenant was going to be binding on those who came under the new one?
“Christ is the end of the law” because he fulfilled it. All of the main principles of the laws were contained in Jesus’ teachings and covered under ‘the law of love’……love for God and neighbor…..no longer a written law but now engraved on hearts and governed by conscience.
For Jews, who had spent their whole lives observing the Sabbath, there was no mandate to cease doing so. But for Gentiles, there was no mandate to observe a Sabbath.

So, retaining the Sabbath law that only applied to Jews, was not incumbent on Gentiles. The majority of Christians in the first century were Jews, but once the Gentiles were brought into the Christian arrangement, there was no reason to keep a law that God applied only to his covenanted people and observed only after their release from slavery in Egypt, when they entered into the old covenant through its mediator, Moses.
It's clear that Christians being required to keep the Sabbath doesn't fit your philosophy, so you are going to ignore the logical meaning of Matt. 24:20 no matter what.
Logically, if there was a mandate for Christians to keep the Sabbath, the apostles, who were the first to be included in the new covenant, would have conveyed it in their teachings, which were for Jews as well as Gentiles.

When a group of former Pharisees who had converted to Christianity wanted to mandate circumcision and observance of the law of Moses (which included the Sabbath) to Gentile converts to Christianity, (as that was the law for Jewish converts) it caused quite a lot of controversy.…..but when the apostles and elders met in Jerusalem to sort out the dilemma…..

Read Acts 15:1-33….
”So the apostles and the elders gathered together to look into this matter. 7 After much intense discussion had taken place, Peter rose and said to them: “Men, brothers, you well know that from early days God made the choice among you that through my mouth people of the nations should hear the word of the good news and believe. 8 And God, who knows the heart, bore witness by giving them the holy spirit, just as he did to us also. 9 And he made no distinction at all between us and them, but purified their hearts by faith. 10 So why are you now making a test of God by imposing on the neck of the disciples a yoke that neither our forefathers nor we were capable of bearing? 11 On the contrary, we have faith that we are saved through the undeserved kindness of the Lord Jesus in the same way that they are.” . . . .
13 After they finished speaking, James replied: “Men, brothers, hear me. 14 Symʹe·on has related thoroughly how God for the first time turned his attention to the nations to take out of them a people for his name. 15 And with this the words of the Prophets agree, just as it is written: 16 ‘After these things I will return and raise up again the tent of David that is fallen down; I will rebuild its ruins and restore it, 17 so that the men who remain may earnestly seek Jehovah, together with people of all the nations, people who are called by my name, says Jehovah, who is doing these things, 18 known from of old.’ 19 Therefore, my decision is not to trouble those from the nations who are turning to God, 20 but to write them to abstain from things polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from what is strangled, and from blood.

All of the recommendations given at that meeting pertained to Gentiles, because the Jews already observed those things under their law. No Sabbath observance was part of the “necessary things” outlined by the apostles (Vs 28-29)……if it was “necessary”, they would have said so.

If SDA’s wish to observe a Sabbath, then no one is going to say that they cannot, because there is no law against it…..but if SDA’s want to mandate it for others, then that is a problem because they are then doing what those Jewish Christians did to their gentile brothers in the first century, trying to force on them the observance of a law that was not given to them and which the Jews themselves were not capable of observing perfectly anyway. The account in Acts is I believe, the principle upon which all of this hinges.

Jesus is “Lord of the Sabbath”, because it is his rulership in the administration of God’s Kingdom government, that will bring the 7th day of God’s rest to a successful completion. There are no specific “holy days” for Christians, who can serve God every day, by the way they live their lives 24/7.
 

Brakelite

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I wonder what the age group is on here. Most seem to want to believe immature biblical concepts not even knowing that the present administration of God is in the time period of the New Testament known as Grace. That it deals with the new covenant, and it belongs to the time that is called the administration of the mystery. They have no understanding that this is a period in time that was not made known to any one prior to this administration because God kept it a secret since the world began. They think the words of Jesus in the gospels are written to them and that which deals with our Grace administration does not apply to them. I wonder how old they are. It seems like I'm talking to children at times.
You are aware I hope that no-one, either in the OT or NT , whether Jew or Gentile, was saved by anything else other than grace right?
 

Peterlag

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Tell us about the award. Who bestowed it? And why wasn't your book published through a commercial publisher? Did you try, only to have it rejected?
They are my Christian notes and I add to them every other month. I once printed 1,000 of them to share with people. Now I use this data to respond to you folks. I decided I wanted to advertise my data so I created the website that you ask about to do just that. There's no publishing people involved and I don't sell anything. These are my Christian notes and you can look at them for free.
 
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Peterlag

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You are aware I hope that no-one, either in the OT or NT , whether Jew or Gentile, was saved by anything else other than grace right?
My understanding is there was no grace in the Old Testament. They had the Law.