Sorry, I don't understand. What position?
Pearl: The two Nicene Creeds are in play or 'acceptable'
to the best of my knowledge.
The issue seems to be about two versions of the Nicene Creed; the later version made the Holy Spirit seem as part of, or sourced from the person of the Father and the Son,
inferior to the Father and Son, and then not actually a stand-alone, completely separate person of the Trinity. I may be completely wrong on this point.
Nicene Creed
The original Nicene Creed is a statement of Christian faith that was first adopted at the
First Council of Nicaea in 325 AD. It is a concise summary of the orthodox faith of the early Christian church and is still used in the liturgy of many Christian denominations today.
Also interesting, the original Nicene Creed ends with anathemas against Arian propositions, preceded by the words: “We believe in the Holy Spirit” which terminates the statements of belief. The creed refutes the heresy of the Arian Controversy and was designed to settle the controversy. The Arian doctrine taught that Jesus was not God, but rather a created being. And then I also believe as Arian in this position.
And for this purpose here, in this thread, I do not have an issue as if it's an impediment to learning something new.
Here is the original text of the Nicene Creed (without the Arian rebuke):
"We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of all things visible and invisible.
And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, begotten of the Father, only-begotten, that is, of the essence of the Father, God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father, by whom all things were made, both in heaven and on earth; who for us men and for our salvation came down and was incarnate, and was made man, suffered and was crucified, and was buried, and the third day rose again, ascended into heaven, from thence He shall come to judge the living and the dead.
And in the Holy Ghost.
We believe in one holy Catholic and apostolic Church; we acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins; and we look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen."
Here is the later text of the Nicene Creed:
The later Nicene Creed, also known as the Niceano-Constantinopolitan Creed, was
adopted in 381 AD at the Council of Constantinople. It is a revised version of the original Nicene Creed, which was adopted in 325 AD at the Council of Nicaea.
Here is the text of the later Nicene Creed:
"We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.
And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds (æons), Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father; by whom all things were made, both in heaven and on earth; who for us men and for our salvation came down and was incarnate, and was made man; who was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate, and suffered, and was buried, and the third day rose again, according to the Scriptures, and ascended into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of the Father; from thence he shall come again, with glory, to judge the quick and the dead; whose kingdom shall have no end.
And in the Holy Ghost.
We believe in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of life, who proceedeth from the Father, who
with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified, who spake by the prophets.
And we believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church; we acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins; we look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen."
This creed is a statement of the Christian faith and is still used today in many Christian denominations, including Eastern Orthodox, Roman Catholic, Anglican, and Lutheran churches.
And then to show a more complete picture of the Creeds in play at that time in history, here's the even later Athanasian Creed.
Athanasian Creed
The Athanasian Creed is a Christian creed that was written in
the 5th century AD. It is named after Athanasius, a bishop who was a strong defender of the doctrine of the Trinity. The creed is a statement of faith that was meant to be is
similar to the Apostles’ Creed, but it is more detailed and includes anathemas (condemnations) against those who disagree with its teachings. I beg to differ that this Creed is remotely close to the Apostles' Creed.
Here is the text of the Athanasian Creed:
“Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the Catholic faith; Which faith except every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly. And the Catholic faith is this: That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; Neither confounding the Persons, nor dividing the Substance. For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost is all one, the glory equal, the majesty coeternal… And in this Trinity none is before, or after another; none is greater, or less than another… So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Ghost, not three Holy Ghosts. And in this Trinity none is before, or after another; none is greater, or less than another… He therefore that will be saved, let him thus think of the Trinity.”
Apostles’ Creed - the earliest written Creed
The Apostles’ Creed is a statement of faith believed to have been written in
the 2nd century AD, although the exact authorship is unknown. The creed is a summary of the central teachings of Christianity and is often recited during baptismal services.
Here is the text of the Apostles’ Creed:
“I believe in God the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth: And in Jesus Christ his only Son our Lord, Who was conceived by the Holy Ghost, Born of the Virgin Mary, Suffered under Pontius Pilate, Was crucified, dead, and buried: He descended into hell; The third day he rose again from the dead; He ascended into heaven, And sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty; From thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead. I believe in the Holy Ghost; The holy Catholic(k) Church; The communion of saints; The forgiveness of sins; The resurrection of the body; And the life everlasting. Amen.”
And personally I have nothing to do with any of these Creeds, although the earliest, the Apostles Creed come much closer to my liking. If they had only kept it simple and believed that the Holy Spirit is actually the Father God, it is his own Spirit. Then it would be bang on.
I wish we would just followed the simple and more meaningful
Creed of Jesus Christ as his commandments for us to follow. And basically is is quotes by him in Mark's Gospel.
“One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, “Of all the commandments, which is the most important?” “The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no commandment greater than these.”
— Mark 12:29-31