The Modern Gospel

[Lizbeth]

Who decides what faith is required to be covered by God's righteousness? Is that up to us? Are we to assume that God accepts whatever we do?

But you misquote me...as you must to make a case against sound doctrine. But you know you are twisting my words...as well as the bible...to uphold your opinions.

I never said that God doesn't impute righteousness on born again believers. All believers are justified by faith. What I'm against is the naming and claiming of being as righteous as God is...claiming that God IMPUTES His righteousness to humans at all. No one is as righteous as God. And God is not unaware of this. God is NOT senile. He doesn't see humans as righteous as Himself. God doesn't cover up our sins with His righteousness either. That should be obvious. But you and others here promote a sinful holiness. And I stand against that...as I should. So your remarks fall back on you multiplied.

The false gospel makes crazy claims on the deviated ones for being sinful and carnal. It is self-righteousness being promoted. Having maybe started in the Spirit, many learn very quickly to embrace and publish iniquity. Should that not be corrected? But to some this is seen as mischaracterization...even as these claim things that go exactly against the truth. It's the sign of the times.

Of course we do not assume that God accepts whatever we do. Of course not. Where do you get the idea that is what I believe?

I'm no theologian, but I simply read that "Our inner man has been created after the image of He who created it" - God/Christ. So what does that imply? Perfect, righteous, holy. It is CHRIST in us and He is perfect, righteous, holy. And IF we sin in spite of ourselves, it is no longer being counted/reckoned as being "I who sin, but sin living in me"......in other words, sin is not being imputed to us. " Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin." That is GRACE Epi......liberated from the Law, its curse of death/condemnation.

BUT we are not to use our liberty (grace) as a license to sin. We are not to abuse His grace, but be sincere in seeking His righteousness and kingdom. Because if we keep on wilfully sinning there is no more sacrifice for sin.....we can wear out the longsuffering of the Lord and He can withdraw His grace if we keep on abusing it. God is not mocked. I don't find these things are difficult to understand.......wonderful truth of His wonderful grace. The Lord cuts His children a lot of slack while we are learning and growing...turning everything around for our good, even our mistakes if we are humble enough to acknowledge them and learn from them (not to make light of them though),.and I think we pretty much all do make mistakes, or most of us at least....scripture bears that out in speaking of the mistakes of many saints. Adam, Noah, Moses, David, Peter etc.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

How are we to tell the difference between the true gospel and what is for all intents and purposes "another gospel"? The modern church too often finds its legitimacy in an artificially generated gospel that is without power; where any kind of eternal security must be supposed and presumed without being verifiable.The ideological religious dimension, however, provides us with no guarantees. But the truth will set us free. Better to store up actual heavenly riches that don't tarnish or are lost by being diverted away through misappropriation.

Okay, what artificially generated gospel are you talking about?
This is the gospel put simply:
Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.

3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures" 1 Cor. 15:1-4

IF a church does not teach this, that salvation comes through a relationship with Christ, they are teaching a false gospel.
Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam and many other religions are false gospels!
Is your view any different than 1 Cor. 15:3-4?
Catholic, Protestant and non-denominational Christian churches teach this _ however imperfect they may be _ they are all aware that Christ is the Way, the Truth and the Life.
The whole purpose of life is this: that we become reconciled to God through Christ at some point in one's life _ before death.
You always seem to be attacking Christianity as if we have gotten it wrong. There are flaws in each church as there were in the 1st century. But God is Sovereign and His Body is intact; ! In fact, His Plan is moving along perfectly right on schedule. You evidently think we messed up His plan. ??? If we could, prophecy could never be fulfilled with hair- splitting accuracy. We would then be insecure and our faith if any, weak. The Bible would be much different; it would not include prophecies, promises, or anything about the future. Imagine what that would be like: "What's going to happen to this world, or to us when we die?" " I don't know, this Bible doesn't tell us." Why can't God promise us anything? Because we continue to mess up His plans ... I guess?" Well, if it was like that, I would throw the Bible in the ocean - but it is not. The God I believe in is in control of good and evil, our future and every soul written in the Book of Life will be accounted for.
No one can snatch us out of His hand! As we approach the end times, confusion and falling away will occur with those who are not born again. We will be tested, but those who are in Christ will persevere.
We won't be led astray by false teachers, even the Antichrist who will demonstrate supernatural powers.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You have fully misunderstood the gospel.

have I though? Or have you?

The gift of God is eternal life AWAY from a sinful temporal life.

it is eternal life period

Eternal life means you will live forever. We who were DEAD in tresspasses and sins, he made ALIVE in christ

It does not make us sinless.

Eternal life is a KIND of life created in Christ Jesus that we should walk in it.

I walk in it every day. It is the basis of my hope. If I did not have this hope. I would never have faith. I would have to trust myself to walk in a way that I would earn salvation.

That is not a way to walk in God. We look to God. Not in self.

Jesus died in our place?

Thats what the Bible says.

The the lambs in the law die in place of the people? yes
Did John the Baptist say behold the lab of God who takes the sin of the world? yes
Does the word say died for the ungodly (yes Romans 5: 6) Romans 5: 8 while we were yet sinners Christ died for US, Christ died for our sin (1 cor 5: 13)

For those who would have eternal life...Jesus is showing us the way.

yes he did, and he used moses as an example.

Moses lifted the serpent, whoever looked in faith lived, whoever did nto died

in the same way Jesus will be lifted up. That whoever looks in faith will live (eternal life, not be condemned) whoever does not will die (continue in death, are still condemned)

And we can't claim Jesus' sacrifice for ourselves.

Why can;t we? In fact we better. If we do not. We will die in our sin.

Only God can justify a person.

yes, And he told us when or if that will take place. When we trust him (faith) and it is through grace, not works.

Jesus offered Himself up to the Father, not to us.

Yes, He offered himself to the father FOR US..

So you have to go through the Father. And when Jesus' sacrifice is efficacious to us....we are translated into the higher walk in eternal life. That's how we KNOW we have been justified.

Where do you get this from. Please she me this in scripture. Where it is our walk (the law) that makes us justified. Because in effect this is what you are saying, we are justified by walking as he did, Well he walked according to the law innocent of ever breaking it. You want to walk exactly like christ did, their is your guideline, Do you think you do this? I do not know anyone who has (although I know a lot who claim they do) hence in your gospel. No one could be saved Could they?

There you go protecting the flesh that is meant for the cross. Who are you? Are you a new creation in Christ...or are you Adam who wants to save himself?

I am protecting the flesh?

if Christ is in me (and he is) the body (flesh) is dead because of sin ( because I have not ceased from all sin) the spirit is alive because of righteousness (not mine but by the righteousness of Christ)

So who is protecting the flesh? is it not you?

From you,, and others who have believed the lie. There is NO WAY that God's righteousness can be imputed to anyone.

Yet the bible says it was imputed to abraham, And if we have the same faith as abraham it will be imputed to us also..

Romans 4: 4 What then shall we say that Abraham our fatherhas found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.

Was abraham found righteous because he worked at being good? No.

interesting that David said not only is Gods righteousness imputed to abraham, But david said abrahams sin was not imputed to himself, Not because they worked, but because they had faith

5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:

7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered;
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.”

See its not just for abraham, its for all mankind.

But if you still are confused. Paul lets us know

And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while stilluncircumcised, that he might be the father of all those who believe, though they are uncircumcised, that righteousness might be imputed to them also,

But you see, it has to be through faith. Because it is of faith.

16 Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all


Cutting again as too long. To be continued

 

[Johann]

Sorry you are in error.

You must be Born Of The Spirit to understand the scriptures.

Your spirit must be Born Again it’s our spirit that knows God...not sola scripture...

Our spirit has Gods Witness His Living Holy Spirit witnessing Gods truth to our heart/ spirit...this is the place you err...your spiritual knowledge and understanding imo is zero.

It’s all intellectual knowledge from your own human intellect..plus other people’s commentaries and work you post....there is the rub and that is why we don’t agree..

The natural man doesn’t understand the Living witness that we+are Born Again of..its folly to them.

I show you your error-s and you say I must be born again to understand scriptures? I am born from above that's WHY I can point out your errors.

Please-don't respond, more like react-I don't have the time correct even more errors since you are not teachable.

Thanks
J.

 

[Ritajanice]

it is eternal life period

Eternal life means you will live forever. We who were DEAD in tresspasses and sins, he made ALIVE in christ

Where in you lives forever?

Quoting sola scripture?

Where are you Alive in Christ?

Who told you that you are Alive in Christ?

Sola scripture?

 

[Ritajanice]

I show you your error-s and you say I must be born again to understand scriptures? I am born from above that's WHY I can point out your errors.

We must be Born Again in our spirit...not by reading sola scripture...

Please-don't respond, more like react-I don't have the time correct even more errors since you are not teachable.

Thanks
J.

You haven’t my friend..you speak from the intellect and sola scripture..plus other people’s commentaries.

A Born Again does not have to work like you do ...we are spirit children and are led by the Spirit Of God who lives in our heart/ spirit..

A Born Again knows in their heart/ spirit that they are a spirit child.

Not by reading countless commentaries by other people.....

We are spirit children...not intellectual children, I’ve tried to help you understand this in the spirit.

You keep rebuking the Gods Living witness His Living Holy Spirit makes our spirit Born Again...that’s on you.

 

[Ritajanice]

Please-don't respond

This is a discussion board..if I see you bearing false witness then I will 100% respond to your posts.

Sola scripture does not make our spirit Born Again...Gods Living Witness His Living Holy Spirit....does that miracle act....we don’t work for it my friend.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

OK So you don't believe you have God's righteousness imputed (reckoned) to you? Those who do will be judged very hard.

Where did I say this?

I said we do not walk like Christ (sinless) not that we do not need to have his righteousness imputed. If it is not. We are still dead in our sin, because we have failed to walk as he did (sinless)

That's not how justification works.

Justification is a legal term, it means to be found innocent, To be found not guilty, or to have your payment for your crime covered (either by you fulfilling your debt, or someone else paying your debt for you (redemption)

You should look it up

Intimacy with God is not a legal thing..and you are not a lawyer. I think you are still under the law. Being under grace is NOT a legal thing, but an intimate walk in resurrection life and power...

Intimacy with God is impossible apart from Grace. If your still dead because of sin, You can have no intimacy, the sin debt must be paid first. So you can be made right with God.

And it is based on a legal thing (justification) that we have intimacy with God

according to the gospel. You have fallen for the deviated gospel that says that legally you can no longer be prosecuted for sin...like an immunity clause that criminals sign up for...based on self-interest and self-preservation. If God was that crooked, then why does Jesus say that those who seek to save their life would lose it. You may have to ponder that a while.

Well I could come to your view. And remain dead in my sin and hope like crazy I stop my sin so I can be saved.

But I will pass. I am not going to put myself in an impossible situation

No. The atonement is based on holiness.

No, the atonment is based on The blood. Thats what the high priest did on the day of atonement, he atones the sin of the poeple by the sacrifices he Made.

Ever notice that the ark of God was in the holy of holiness?

yes. And the only way to enter that place of holiness was to amen yourself holy. How was this done?
5 Animals had to die, and shed their blood..

The atonement makes HOLY not forgiven.

if your ot forgiven, Your not holy.

God's people are holy. God is holy. In the holiness of Christ there is no sin. In Him is no sin.

Good luck in that. Are you sinless yet? Last I heard you were not. Have you achieved this state?

NO. There is no cover up for sins. Light exposes darkness. Only darkness covers up more darkness. So you are believing the biggest lie.

yet the blood of the animal covered the sin of the people.

By grace we are empowered to walk as Jesus walked...fulfilling the righteousness of the law.

yes, But we have to be saved first. If we are not saved, we are still dead in our sin. We can walk all we want. We walk in self righteousness at that point, Thats what the jews did, thats why they crucified christ. Because Christ showed them they were wrong also.

That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Romans 8:4

Does it say that the righteousness of the law was fulfilled in Christ? Or in us who walk in His power and eternal life???

it does not say they were made righteous. it said they walked righteous, i agree

If we seek after the things of the spirit we will nto walk after the Flesh, and in those moments we will fulfill the law (not sin)

But no one does that 24/7. Hence we need to be justified, or the walk is for nought

Reading comprehension is key here.

yes, i agree, you need to read better

Exactly my point. The modern gospel is the broad way that Jesus warns us against. Instead seek the face of God until He visits you and pours His Spirit on you like at Pentecost.

The broad way is religion. Islam, Judaism, Legalistic christianity

it says I get to God by how Good I am, By the works I do. And by the religion I follow

Not by the blood of the lamb,,

jesus aid I am the way the truth and the life. Not ou good deeds..

A religion of death means Jesus had to die....because people are dead in their sins. Many believers are still dead in their sins and point to the cross. But a real believer GOES to the cross to die and be quickened into an eternal kind of life to walk as Jesus walked...in His grace and power.

A true believer is no longer dead. He has been born again.

Sadly, many believers think they are true believers, yet arte still tryign to earn their way in

Jesus died for the sins of the world...not just those who believe. But He was raised to life to justify those who walk in His eternal life.

yes, he died for the world. That whoever believes..

Not whoever does good..

Not just that. Self-righteousness is when you declare yourself righteous for ANY REASON.

its self righteous when you think by your righteousness you earn salvation.

And enter not into judgment with thy servant: for in thy sight shall no man living be justified. Ps. 121


Yes...no man can work themselves into a heavenly walk....it is by translation...like Enoch. Read Heb. 11.


Sure. But we lose righteousness by claiming something that isn't true. A liar is NOT righteous. Paul warns us against trying to hold to the truth in unrighteousness. The wrath of God is on these.

Just because anyone claims something is true does not make it so. In the same token, just because someone claims somethign is false. Does not make it so.

God will hold us accountable for what we believe, not what we have been taught.

No one is ever as righteous as God. But we can be like Jesus. And you can meet God face to face right now...how? By faith.

If you’re not as righteous as God. Your not like Jesus

Jesus was perfect. You and I are not

You are confusing a bodily redemption with a blood redemption. The time to drink the Blood of Christ is now. To walk in His life....now.

I was redeemed by the blood of the lamb

Galatians 3:13
Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”),

1 peter 1: 18 knowing that you were not redeemed with [g]corruptible things, like silver or gold, from your aimless conduct received by tradition from your fathers, 19 but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot.

So then you are wrong to think of Christianity as an after-life. That is from pagan influence...Valhalla (Nordic paganism) and also Islam that teaches heaven and hell. How many people are still ignorant about eternal things?

I entered the kingdom of God 40 years ago. I have lived in it since then, I do not think it is after life..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

If the bible could speak to you what would it say? Would it puff you up and say you are God's righteousness, that you are seated in heavenly places?

NO. The bible would tell you that you are poor, naked, wretched, and blind....and in need of seeking first the kingdom of God BEFORE making foolish claims based on a lack of reading skills and discernment of eternal things.

Yes

so why do you preach you must be as righteous as God?

 

[Ritajanice]

I said we do not walk like Christ (sinless) not that we do not need to have his righteousness imputed. If it is not. We are still dead in our sin, because we have failed to walk as he did (sinless)

This isn’t biblical no wonder it’s so confusing....how did you become righteous in the eyes of God?

Sola scripture?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

A righteous man still sins. God recognized the HUMAN righteousness of Abraham. Just like God recognizes the human righteousness of the good Samaritan.

There are 2 levels of righteousness. Loving your neighbour as yourself. And loving God with all. 2 tablets of commandments. A double edged sword...etc...


No...God doesn't impute His righteousness to anyone. That's why it's called the righteousness of GOD. If it is His it can't be attributed to you. Nobody is going to glorify you for obedience to God. God is jealous of His glory. NO, walk like Jesus walked and men will glorify GOD...not you.


What? The opposite is true. You have to read the bible for yourself. Was Zacharias a righteous man in God's eyes? The bible says so...and yet he was made mute because of his unbelief. Unbelief is a sin.


I am preaching exactly...to the nth degree...what the bible teaches. You can't see that because you have been indoctrinated into a religion. You have to go to God to know the truth. Reading a bible wrong will get you condemned very quickly. Making false claims ensures your future rejection. Where is the fear? Where is the reality?


That's not faith...but beliefs. Beliefs have no power. Believing in Napoleon doesn't make me a general. Believing in Jesus doesn't make you stop sinning.

That's like saying a fit person doesn't need to run to get in shape...so why are they running?

Lol

My friend I showed you where God imputed his righteousness to abraham and where he imputs it to the circumcized and uncircumcised also. Based on our faith in God just like the faith of Abraham.

for you to sit there and say God does not do this is arguing against the word of God itself.

so there is no need to further distort the word of God. As you continually do

 

[Ritajanice]

Yes

so why do you preach you must be as righteous as God?

How would you even know that you are in the righteousness of Christ?

By reading sola scripture?

Certainly not....

 

[Ritajanice]

My friend I showed you where God imputed his righteousness to abraham and where he imputs it to the circumcized and uncircumcised also. Based on our faith in God just like the faith of Abraham

Faith in God you say?

Ok...how do you know that God exists just by reading sola scripture?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Our sins must be forgiven first then we become Born Again, we are not in the righteousness of Christ not until our spirit is Born Again, then we are right before God.

We do not have imputed righteousness.there is only one righteous man, his name was Jesus.

We are clothed in his righteousness.

Listen to what you just said

Our sin must be forgiven

But we do not have imputed righteousness (even though Paul said we did)

there we go with the contradiction again

Do you even read what Epi writes? You do realise. You are apposed to him in your belief system, and he is apposed to you..

yet you walk around praising each other like your brother and sister. Why is this?

its one thing to agree, and not attack the other. Its another to agree with everything they say, when deep down inside you do not agree wiht everything they say.

it just brings confusion.. to everyone who sees

 

[Johann]

This is a discussion board..if I see you bearing false witness then I will 100% respond to your posts.

Bearing false witness?!
Stop goading or try to solicit a reaction from me, you are not qualified to be a Staff member, and you are abusing that right with YOU bearing false witness.
What i do witness and discern is pride from your end-and now you are stalking me, breaking all Forum rules-yapping like a little puppy at my heels.
You are clueless and Scripture-less.
J.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

We reap as we sow. The modern gospel denies this. We are to sow in righteousness...HUMAN righteousness and break up our fallow ground. Shake up our foolish religious beliefs...and SEEK THE LORD. That's IN the bible.

Until...He comes and rains HIS righteousness on us. That's not the same kind of righteousness we are to sow in. We reap HIS righteousness by sowing our own....as we SEEK GOD!!!!!!

Nobody seeks God. People will rail against that and say I'm making this up...that is HOW FAR from the truth they have been deviated.

READ the bible.

Sow to yourselves in righteousness, reap in mercy; break up your fallow ground: for it is time to seek the LORD, till he come and rain righteousness upon you. Hos. 10:12

OK...let's go over this.

Sow to yourselves? What kind of righteousness? OURS! What is that righteousness? Fear of God, humility. Honesty, brokenness...ever notice how we need to repent to believe the gospel. Well, people aren't doing that...because it sounds too much like work!

Where there is no honesty...among SO MANY...there is no proper sowing. So people are not even this far.

We reap as we sow.

Reap in mercy. God goes easy on the humble and contrite ones.

It is time to SEEK THE LORD. Until when??? Until He shows up!!!! Hello!!!

What does He do when He shows up? He COVERS US with HIS righteousness...to preserve the holiness of an intimate walk in resurrection life.

Who can read?

Yes we do

And since we do. We are all dead. And headed straight to hell. As a man I know always said any day I wake up and I am not in hell is a good day

because thats where i deserve to be.

This is how we become bancrupt in spirit..

it not boasting of how good we are.. and how we will make it..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Romans 4:5 - But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works.

Romans 4:11 - And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while still uncircumcised, that he might be the father of all those who believe, though they are uncircumcised, that righteousness might be imputed to them also.

Romans 4:24 - but also for us. It shall be imputed to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead.

Romans 5:19 - For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous.

2 Corinthians 5:21 - For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

Ephesians 2:8 - For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Philippians 3:9 - and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith.

Welcome to salvation indeed. :)

Amen

 

[Eternally Grateful]

There was no error. I wrote it because folks were telling johan he didn't need to use commentaries, and I just pointed out that John Paul and James when all commentaries too, and maybe he shouldn't use them (It was posted to show that you can use commentaries, and I wrote it with sarcasm.) I don't know what you are speaking about here. You need to leave me alone. I get the same ol same ol all the time from you. I get it, you are born again, we aren't, right? I remember a post you wrote before that got removed where you had remarked to another member that you and he were the only two born again, and then you added lol. the post was removed. You haven't changed a bit.

Jesus is My Saviour. I am born again. I am justified There was no miraculous feeling etc. The fact that we can be born again is a miracle in itself.
I study the Bible, because that tells me about the Lord. Everytime I open it I find something new.

I still wish I could put you on ignore like I had you before you were promoted,.

Its sad.. that some people will not just read what others say..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I have reported your post as you are just trying to add more fuel to the fire, just like you did last night.
I have also reported her post with its personal innuendos of me.
I am goading no one.

I picked her up on her error and was met with a barrage of personal remarks...she then said her post was sarcasm.

We’re trying to discuss scripture not sarcasm.

Did you report yourself too? Since your doing exactly what he said?

Should I report you again also? I will be watching.

 

[Ritajanice]

Listen to what you just said

Our sin must be forgiven

But we do not have imputed righteousness (even though Paul said we did)

We are clothed in Christ’s righteousness?

I think I’m starting to see that now...God now sees us as perfect as Jesus even though we aren’t...we are because we have been Born Of The Spirit.

So yes, he has imputed Christ righteousness into our spirit.

there we go with the contradiction again

Do you even read what Epi writes? You do realise. You are apposed to him in your belief system, and he is apposed to you..

yet you walk around praising each other like your brother and sister. Why is this?

He speaks some spirit truth.

Do you know what speaking in the Spirit means?

its one thing to agree, and not attack the other. Its another to agree with everything they say, when deep down inside you do not agree wiht everything they say.

it just brings confusion.. to everyone who sees

You do the same.