Is your faith your own? - Is "the Faith" prescribed by a human institution?

[St. SteVen]

This is a follow-up to my topic titled:

Faith vs. "the Faith" - Which one was once delivered?

- What's the difference between faith and "the Faith"? - What faith was once delivered/entrusted to us? - Was it faith, or "the Faith"? - Is faith from God? - Is "the Faith" man-made? Jude 3 KJV Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me...

www.christianityboard.com

Are you saved by faith, or by "the Faith"? Let's discuss both sides.

Are we saved by certainty, or by faith? - the mystery of salvation

Faith is not required to believe a certainty. How much energy do we expend attempting to promote salvation as a certainty? All the reams of apologetics to make the mystery of faith appear to be a certainty. Were we saved by grace through certainty, or saved by grace through faith? ]

www.christianityboard.com

Discussion questions;
1) Is the basis for your salvation a personal decision to follow God, or to follow the church?
2) If your salvation is in "the Faith", who prescribed what that means?

[

 

[MatthewG]

Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see.

That is the definition, Steven. An assurance is a changed attitude when being in spirit, you do not see the spirit, but you have confidence it's there and given by Yahavah, by and through the Lord Yeshua. Now people who never read the bible will have the holy spirit too, if they too look towards God and know very little about Yeshua, they will tend to walk by the spirit and walk in faith, having confidence in what is hoped for, with assurance of evidence happening though the spirit within that person is not seen... and God is not seen.

I confidently believe that Yahavah, has adopted me as a child/son, and that because of his Son resurrection, the holy spirit is residing with me, even the spirit of Christ. That is faithfulness to believing the promises of Yeshua, and which Yahweh/Yahavah promised to send the holy spirit to help us in our lives, because we are unable to do anything good when it comes to Yahwehs standards and is why we need help by the Holy spirit of Yahavah.

 

[Randy Kluth]

This is a follow-up to my topic titled:

Faith vs. "the Faith" - Which one was once delivered?

- What's the difference between faith and "the Faith"? - What faith was once delivered/entrusted to us? - Was it faith, or "the Faith"? - Is faith from God? - Is "the Faith" man-made? Jude 3 KJV Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me...

www.christianityboard.com

Are you saved by faith, or by "the Faith"? Let's discuss both sides.

Are we saved by certainty, or by faith? - the mystery of salvation

Faith is not required to believe a certainty. How much energy do we expend attempting to promote salvation as a certainty? All the reams of apologetics to make the mystery of faith appear to be a certainty. Were we saved by grace through certainty, or saved by grace through faith? ]

www.christianityboard.com

Discussion questions;
1) Is the basis for your salvation a personal decision to follow God, or to follow the church?
2) If your salvation is in "the Faith", who prescribed what that means?

[

This does not get to the heart of the matter, with respect to your question. But I had to consult with myself as to the origin of my faith. I was raised up in the church, and my parents taught me to pray, which we did after every meal and at bedtime.

Our family was every week at church Lutherans, and we attended virtually every activity, participating in every way possible. My father was the choir director, the organist, and the adult Bible Study leader.

My father had been raised by a father who was devoted to studying Scriptures. My mother had been raised in paganism but had been attracted to faith she found in a local Lutheran church. My folks met at Pacific Lutheran University.

So I grew up with a sense of God being in my life, and conversed with Him whenever I had concerns. And I saw answers to prayers in my life.

When I began to want to have friendship with "the world" in my teens, I felt I had to do wrong like they did to be accepted. It was, at first, intoxicating--the sense of liberation from parental guidelines, and from social norms. I made my own decisions.

But things went from bad to worse until I ended up incarcerated, where I sensed God's intense displeasure. And I gradually got back on my spiritual feet again, promising a change of life back to true Christianity.

I had to give up all of my worldly associations, and the accompanying sins, until I felt destitute and alone, with my Bible. I came upon a passage in Acts that said, "I give my Spirit to those who obey Me," and I instantly felt a rush of the Holy Spirit in my mind and heart.

That began a new life with new Christian friends, who almost appeared out of nowhere. And I've had "faith" ever since, though it was there from the beginning. I suppose the church denomination I grew up in, the Lutheran Church, designed what I perceived to be the intellectual side of the faith. But I turned away from that denomination, which I felt had let me down.

I turned to teachings coming from Watchman Nee and from a host of Charismatic teachers. Since that time I've gone through some real struggles, but have not turned back from my commitment to the voice of God calling me to obedience.

 

[St. SteVen]

This does not get to the heart of the matter, with respect to your question. But I had to consult with myself as to the origin of my faith.

Good testimony. Thanks for sharing.

You seem to agree that faith as a personal relationship with God was superior to a relationship to "the Faith" provided by a religious institution.

[

 

[Randy Kluth]

Good testimony. Thanks for sharing.

You seem to agree that faith as a personal relationship with God was superior to a relationship to "the Faith" provided by a religious institution.

[

I don't think the "religion" would've meant anything had God not been in my heart to start with. I think God is, in a sense, in everybody's heart--via His Word speaking to the conscience of every man, who is made in the image of God. However, God has to not just be in the heart of man, but also, accepted in the heart of men in order for Him to be embraced as a permanent resident. :)

There has to come the moment when like Apollos the truth of Christ has to be made known more clearly, when someone like young Samuel has to recognize that God is asking to be part of a relationship.

 

[stredaleve]

This is a follow-up to my topic titled:

Faith vs. "the Faith" - Which one was once delivered?

- What's the difference between faith and "the Faith"? - What faith was once delivered/entrusted to us? - Was it faith, or "the Faith"? - Is faith from God? - Is "the Faith" man-made? Jude 3 KJV Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me...

www.christianityboard.com

Are you saved by faith, or by "the Faith"? Let's discuss both sides.

Are we saved by certainty, or by faith? - the mystery of salvation

Faith is not required to believe a certainty. How much energy do we expend attempting to promote salvation as a certainty? All the reams of apologetics to make the mystery of faith appear to be a certainty. Were we saved by grace through certainty, or saved by grace through faith? ]

www.christianityboard.com

Discussion questions;
1) Is the basis for your salvation a personal decision to follow God, or to follow the church?
2) If your salvation is in "the Faith", who prescribed what that means?

[

Personal decision, really? If it is not God's will, will there even be a person saved? How is God's will your personal decision? How can someone able to save themselves without God's help?

 

[Stumpmaster]

Personal decision, really? If it is not God's will, will there even be a person saved? How is God's will your personal decision? How can someone able to save themselves without God's help?

Ask Jesus. He started it when He said "Not My Will but Thine be done".

 

[stredaleve]

we do not owe God anything whether he save me or not i have no right to complain for God is the creator of all things everything belongs to him i belong to him he has all the right to do anything with me

 

[stredaleve]

Ask Jesus. He started it when He said "Not My Will but Thine be done".

[KJV]Luke 22:42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Personal decision, really? If it is not God's will, will there even be a person saved? How is God's will your personal decision? How can someone able to save themselves without God's help?

It is *always* God's will to save a person. But He has put into motion a process by which Man is given authority to change the outcome. God cannot be defeated, and He will have children, saved by grace. But there will also be children who are affected by wrong human choices, who by nature opt for rebelling against God, just as Satan chose to adopt a nature, without duress, to rebel against God.

And since it is *always* God's will to save a person, it is both God's choice and Man's choice whether to get saved. God has made men free agents so that God's will can only be carried out in partnership with human choice. But what choice is made is partly determined by good and bad choices that men choose to make in partnership with or apart from partnership with God.

 

[MatthewG]

God is constantly talking to all. Desiring relationship, whether or not a person joins it is personal. God isn’t willingly to force himself upon anyone, there needs to be a willingness for our hearts to allow him to help us, such as by the Holy Spirit, being faithful, and personally invested in seeking out Yahavah in faith, hoping for his help which there is evidence made, from our old actions and new heavenly abiding in Christ actions through the Holy Spirit or Spirit of Christ within us, which does all things good.

Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see.

That is the definition, Steven. An assurance is a changed attitude when being in spirit, you do not see the spirit, but you have confidence it's there and given by Yahavah, by and through the Lord Yeshua. Now people who never read the bible will have the holy spirit too, if they too look towards God and know very little about Yeshua, they will tend to walk by the spirit and walk in faith, having confidence in what is hoped for, with assurance of evidence happening though the spirit within that person is not seen... and God is not seen.

I confidently believe that Yahavah, has adopted me as a child/son, and that because of his Son resurrection, the holy spirit is residing with me, even the spirit of Christ. That is faithfulness to believing the promises of Yeshua, and which Yahweh/Yahavah promised to send the holy spirit to help us in our lives, because we are unable to do anything good when it comes to Yahwehs standards and is why we need help by the Holy spirit of Yahavah.

If you don’t believe; then you simply don’t believe, there is no excuse other than your not convinced and you don’t believe. And that’s fine, sometimes people come around in their own time to Yahavah.

 

[stredaleve]

It is *always* God's will to save a person. But He has put into motion a process by which Man is given authority to change the outcome. God cannot be defeated, and He will have children, saved by grace. But there will also be children who are affected by wrong human choices, who by nature opt for rebelling against God, just as Satan chose to adopt a nature, without duress, to rebel against God.

And since it is *always* God's will to save a person, it is both God's choice and Man's choice whether to get saved. God has made men free agents so that God's will can only be carried out in partnership with human choice. But what choice is made is partly determined by good and bad choices that men choose to make in partnership with or apart from partnership with God.

My mind is sometimes flying. It was just on Earth, but it went into space in the blink of an eye. Come to think of it, if that were indeed the case, then it’s like you’re saying we can alter God's will, as it is written here that says...

Ask Jesus. He started it when He said "Not My Will but Thine be done".

[KJV]Luke 22:42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.

The son is asking his father. Nothing is written here about the will of the people, only the will of the Father. It clearly states not the will of the Son nor the people, for there are no other people, but only the will of the Father.

It’s like you’re saying that the devil and his followers have a chance of winning against God, for they can alter the will of God.

 

[St. SteVen]

It’s like you’re saying that the devil and his followers have a chance of winning against God, for they can alter the will of God.

Jesus taught us that it is godly behavior to love your enemies. Would you imagine that "the devil and his followers" are the enemies of God? What do you suppose God will do? "If you love those who love you, what reward will you get?" - vs 47

Matthew 5:43-48 NIV
“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[a] and hate your enemy.’
44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven.
He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.
46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that?
47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that?
48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

]

 

[Stumpmaster]

It’s like you’re saying that the devil and his followers have a chance of winning against God, for they can alter the will of God.

People can neglect or flatly refuse to do God's Will.

 

[St. SteVen]

People can neglect or flatly refuse to do God's Will.

Question: Can a mind that is not transformed even KNOW (test and approve) what God's will is?
If not, how can we say that "People can neglect or flatly refuse to do God's Will"?
It seems that a transformed mind is a prerequisite.

Romans 12:2 NIV
Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind.
Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.

[

 

[Stumpmaster]

Question: Can a mind that is not transformed even KNOW (test and approve) what God's will is?
If not, how can we say that "People can neglect or flatly refuse to do God's Will"?
It seems that a transformed mind is a prerequisite.

Romans 12:2 NIV
Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind.
Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.

[

I refer you to the book of Jonah, and the passage in Acts about Annanias and Saphira. Also check out King Saul and consider the current acceptance or otherwise of the Ten Commandments and the Bible in its entirety. My younger sister refuses to accept Christ as her Saviour even though she knows it is His Will for her to do so. Praying now for her hardening to abate.

 

[Randy Kluth]

My mind is sometimes flying. It was just on Earth, but it went into space in the blink of an eye. Come to think of it, if that were indeed the case, then it’s like you’re saying we can alter God's will, as it is written here that says...


The son is asking his father. Nothing is written here about the will of the people, only the will of the Father. It clearly states not the will of the Son nor the people, for there are no other people, but only the will of the Father.

It’s like you’re saying that the devil and his followers have a chance of winning against God, for they can alter the will of God.

The Father's will overrides the will of others. It does not exclude the exercise of free will among men. In the Garden of Eden God asked Adam and Eve to make a choice, whether to eat of the forbidden tree or not. God's will was that they not eat of it. But they over-rode God's will and sinned.

 

[stredaleve]

But they over-rode God's will and sinned.

Are you saying that the Creator is a newbie, made Satan, created humans, placed them in the Garden of Eden, and that Eve's picking of the fruit from the forbidden tree wasn't part of God's plan? Did God make a mistake? Huh, are you serious?

God is far too wise to make mistakes. I am sure this is not a mistake. It is already part of His great plan for mankind. No matter what a creature think or do, they will not be able to escape the will of God.

 

[stredaleve]

I can't believe a Christian thinks that God makes mistakes. He created things that are unseen, unfelt when touched, but can be explained by science. These concepts come from God. Technology wouldn't improve if He didn't allow it. He gave humans wisdom to make these things possible, and now you're thinking that God makes mistakes? Are you out of your mind?

What Eve overrode was not God's will but God's commandment. Do you really think that God placed Satan there and expected him not to deceive Adam and Eve? Do you also think that God could not see the nature of the creatures He created and how they were programmed?

 

[Gottservant]

This thread strikes me as being in the same vein as "endless genealogies" (1 Timothy 1:4) that the Bible condemns.

You don't need to know what motivated your faith, separate to what motivated the Holy Spirit to reach you.

The point is not to become more objective, but more relational.