Why I hate the Bible... Or so they say?

[Lambano]

O Lucifer, son of the morning!

Okay, so what is the justification for translating הֵילֵל (helel), derived from the Hebrew word for "shining" with the Latin "Lucifer", meaning "light bringer"?

 

[Rockerduck]

Like the KJO "missing verses" scam?

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There are no scams. Only those who attack it. Don't me wrong, I'm not a KJV only. But every time I read a translation; I find errors. My latest was the LSB. I thought this would be the best translation ever. But it too uses critical text and had printing errors; missing words to complete a sentence and LSB acknowledged this. I typically read the same chapter with the KJV and 3 or 4 translations at a time through the whole bible.

 

[Rockerduck]

Okay, so what is the justification for translating הֵילֵל (helel), derived from the Hebrew word for "shining" with the Latin "Lucifer", meaning "light bringer"?

I guess that question is for Erasmus, Tyndale, and Matthew.

 

[St. SteVen]

There are no scams.

No scams?
The KJO folks claim that other Bible translations left verses out of the Bible. - LOL
This is a ridiculous and ignorant claim.

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[Rockerduck]

No scams?
The KJO folks claim that other Bible translations left verses out of the Bible. - LOL
This is a ridiculous and ignorant claim.

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Try to find the word "fornication" in the NIV bible, anywhere in it.

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
No scams?
The KJO folks claim that other Bible translations left verses out of the Bible. - LOL
This is a ridiculous and ignorant claim.

Try to find the word "fornication" in the NIV bible, anywhere in it.

That's a good point, but it is not a "missing verses" problem.

I say it is a good point because the KJV helped to clarify the divorce question for me in this topic below.
The church say that the only justification for divorce is adultery. (sexual immorality) But that's NOT what Jesus said.
He said fornication. And this was in reference to Jewish law.

Did Jesus say that adultery is grounds for divorce? - Nope.

The position of the church and society at large is mistaken as to what Jesus was quoted as saying in the gospels. IMHO Let's discuss. Questions: 1) What did Jesus actually say? 2) Why did he say it? 3) If we got this wrong, where do we go from here? The position of the church and society...

www.christianityboard.com

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[Jericho]

That's the question. Was the Bible (New Testament canon) God's idea?
(since he didn't NEED a book to communicate with us)

Whose to say He didn't choose the written word to communicate to us? After all, God did tell Moses to write down the words He spoke. And it can't be argued of the success. The Bible is the best-selling book of all time.

Did God hand Adam a KJV Bible to communicate?
Enoch? Noah? Abraham?

True, but they had a special relationship with God.

Some say it has God's fingerprints all over it, I say it has humankind's fingerprints all over it.
God never touched it.

Human fingerprints, sure, but also divinely inspired.

I really don't understand some Christians indifference toward the Bible. To quote myself from another thread:

How would we know about Jesus, his death, and his resurrection if not for the Bible? How would we know about God, His character and attributes without the Bible? How would we know what is true or not without the Bible? How could we test the spirits without comparing and contrasting it against the Bible? The Bible is a guidebook; it is our standard. If we can't trust it, then what as Christians can we trust?

God has chosen the written word to convey His message to us. He wrote down the ten commandments on stone tablets. He told Moses to write down His words (Exo 17:14, 24:4, 34:27-28). Jesus himself quoted from what to us now is the Old Testament. 2 Timothy 3:16-17 says: "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work."

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
That's the question. Was the Bible (New Testament canon) God's idea?
(since he didn't NEED a book to communicate with us)

Whose to say He didn't choose the written word to communicate to us? After all, God did tell Moses to write down the words He spoke. And it can't be argued of the success. The Bible is the best-selling book of all time.

I don't think books sales statistics are a good indicator of what God wants. - LOL

Yes. There is evidence of other biblical writers being asked by God to write.
But we don't see that for the New testament. The introduction to the gospel of Luke is a good example.
Who's idea was it to write?

St. SteVen said:
Did God hand Adam a KJV Bible to communicate?
Enoch? Noah? Abraham?

True, but they had a special relationship with God.

Right. They were kicked out of the garden. Very special. (that went well)
Maybe a handbook might have helped? - LOL

St. SteVen said:
Some say it has God's fingerprints all over it, I say it has humankind's fingerprints all over it.
God never touched it.

Human fingerprints, sure, but also divinely inspired.

I really don't understand some Christians indifference toward the Bible. To quote myself from another thread:

Jericho said:
How would we know about Jesus, his death, and his resurrection if not for the Bible? How would we know about God, His character and attributes without the Bible? How would we know what is true or not without the Bible? How could we test the spirits without comparing and contrasting it against the Bible? The Bible is a guidebook; it is our standard. If we can't trust it, then what as Christians can we trust?

God has chosen the written word to convey His message to us. He wrote down the ten commandments on stone tablets. He told Moses to write down His words (Exo 17:14, 24:4, 34:27-28). Jesus himself quoted from what to us now is the Old Testament. 2 Timothy 3:16-17 says: "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

How would we know? God could speak to us directly. (his sheep hear his voice) Prior to the Bible anyway.
Don't get me wrong, I use the Bible every day and appreciate it. Better than nothing, I suppose.

You say, "God has chosen the written word to convey His message to us."
There is no evidence, to my knowledge, that he did choose such.

Humankind depended on an oral tradition prior to things being written down.
And writing it down was probably a good idea, but probably a human idea.

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[Jack]

All who deny the Bible is God's word are messengers of Satan!

 

[Jack]

Are you laughing because the Bible says gays will burn in Hell? Is that what UPSETS you? You should be trying to pull them out of the fire instead of leading them to the fire!

 

[Jericho]

I don't think books sales statistics are a good indicator of what God wants. - LOL

I think it's a good indicator that using the written word to spread the gospel was successful.

Right. They were kicked out of the garden. Very special. (that went well)
Maybe a handbook might have helped? - LOL

Adam walked and talked with God. How many can say that?

But we don't see that for the New testament. The introduction to the gospel of Luke is a good example.
Who's idea was it to write?

And yet Paul said, "All scripture is God-breathed (inspired).". Whose to say God didn't impress upon their hearts to write it down? And if they had not, how would we know about any of it today?

How would we know? God could speak to us directly. (his sheep hear his voice) Prior to the Bible anyway.

Yes, but how often does that happen? Even in the Old Testament, God spoke directly to only a very few select individuals. And yes, He can speak to us today through dreams, visions, thoughts, etc. But how would we know it's from God without comparing it against scriptures to "test the spiritis"?

 

[St. SteVen]

I think it's a good indicator that using the written word to spread the gospel was successful.

Something to that. But God can use anything.
Most people are told, but a few read the Bible only.

Adam walked and talked with God. How many can say that?

We should ALL be able to say that.

And yet Paul said, "All scripture is God-breathed (inspired).". Whose to say God didn't impress upon their hearts to write it down? And if they had not, how would we know about any of it today?

What was "all scripture" when that was written?
The eastern religions probably had scriptures by then.

Yes, but how often does that happen? Even in the Old Testament, God spoke directly to only a very few select individuals. And yes, He can speak to us today through dreams, visions, thoughts, etc. But how would we know it's from God without comparing it against scriptures to "test the spiritis"?

That's a good point.
But in my experience, God is able to speak to us in a way that leaves no doubt. (Saul on the road to Damascus)
Certainly the OT prophets had no Bible to consult with.

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[Wick Stick]

If you're right, the Bible is superfluous. The HS can just miraculously impart info into your brain. That would be way more efficient!

I believe in revelation, but it doesn't make the Bible superfluous. It acts as a sort of answer sheet or checksum. You got a revelation? Let's check that against the answer key... because there's a lot more questionable 'revelations' than real ones.

 

[St. SteVen]

I believe in revelation, but it doesn't make the Bible superfluous. It acts as a sort of answer sheet or checksum. You got a revelation? Let's check that against the answer key... because there's a lot more questionable 'revelations' than real ones.

Good post, but I wanted to address the common use of prophecy today.

Those who are not in a Christian fellowship where this is common tend to have misconceptions about it.
And what I am about to write shows that prophecy today is rarely something that can be verified biblically.
Not that I am against that. If a prophecy is NOT aligned with the message of the Bible, it should be rejected.

Let's start with a definition.

But the one who prophesies speaks to people for their strengthening,
encouraging and comfort. - 1 Corinthians 14:3 NIV

Prophecies today are usually very non-specific. Those delivering a prophecy are usually somewhat apologetic.
They typically have no idea what it means. They are only given a puzzle piece. The other puzzle pieces will be collected
by the person receiving the prophetic message(s). I think I shared a similar example earlier on the forum.

Someone tells you that you will be traveling to a far away land. (a message from God)
Someone else says they had a vision of you with zebras in the background. Then a friend from another church
says they felt God encouraging them to invite you to join them on a missions trip to Africa.

Now, you can see how much more impact the invitation has given the other two prophecies.

But how would you verify this biblically? It doesn't appear to be unbiblical. Quite the contrary.

Acts 16:9-10 NIV
During the night Paul had a vision of a man of Macedonia
standing and begging him, “Come over to Macedonia and help us.”
10 After Paul had seen the vision, we got ready at once to leave for Macedonia,
concluding that God had called us to preach the gospel to them.

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[St. SteVen]

Nonsense. I don't hate the Bible... Or do I?

I do hate the misuse. And I warn about Bibliolatry.
I'm concerned about inflated (and false) claims about the book.
And the general ignorance about where the Bible came from.
Caused by a church that has suppressed the truth about it.
Probably because they think we would leave the church if we really knew.

Discussion questions:
1) What is the best reason to love the Bible?
2) What concerns do you have about the misuse of the Bible?
3) On a scale of 1 to 10 (low to high) how much do you know about where the Bible came from?
4) Thoughts on inerrancy and inspiration. ??? Of the original manuscripts, or our English translations?

Note: Video in the OP.

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[maria878]

The Bible itself isn’t the problem, it’s how people twist it or use it to push their own agenda. That’s what turns a lot of folks away. I think the best reason to love the Bible is that, at its core, it’s meant to guide us in love and compassion.

 

[Behold]

I'm concerned about inflated (and false) claims about the book.


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You are the one who bring the "false claims" to the forum with your Threads and Posts that try to spit on the bible as "filled with errors"... "can we trust it".
The fact it, you can't be trusted as you are a deceiver, and a false light.... who teaches that "everyone is going to heaven"""..........
...= ."universalism" = False Gospel that hopes to send people to hell by trying to get them to believe this lie. @St. SteVen

If the Mods here were doing their job, you'd not have continuing access to continue to spead a incredibly false Gospel on a "christian" forum.
That's a fact.

 

[St. SteVen]

The Bible itself isn’t the problem, it’s how people twist it or use it to push their own agenda. That’s what turns a lot of folks away. I think the best reason to love the Bible is that, at its core, it’s meant to guide us in love and compassion.

Well said. Thanks.

Welcome to the forum.

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[Wick Stick]

Discussion questions:

Sure, why not?

1) What is the best reason to love the Bible?

If life is a test, the Bible is basically Jesus slipping us the answers beforehand. What a homie

2) What concerns do you have about the misuse of the Bible?

The misuse of the Bible looks very similar to the correct use of the Bible, and it can be hard to distinguish them. What I mean is...

We see people quote the Bible out-of-context to support doctrinal points. It's a misuse of Scripture.

But, having a verse called to mind that applies to my life at any given moment is... well that's also out-of-context. But that seems to be the Spirit of God at work, rather than a misuse.

3) On a scale of 1 to 10 (low to high) how much do you know about where the Bible came from?

It depends on the sample group. Compared to everyone? 10.

Compared to just Christians who frequent internet forums to discuss theology? Welp, still 10.

Compared to actual scholars who've devoted their lives to the study of the Bible? 5, maybe? Decidedly average. I've been in that room and I can hold my own in a conversation. But I'm not the guy at the podium delivering the lecture.

 

[Wick Stick]

4) Thoughts on inerrancy and inspiration. ???

The prophets were inspired. Sometimes they were edited/redacted after the fact, and the editors/redactors don't seem to have been inspired or inerrant. Oops.

Some books aren't written by prophets. They aren't inspired and don't claim to be... except for one verse in 2nd Timothy that the church has badly wrested from its original meaning.

You know what they call it when a doctrine is built on a single controversial verse without corroboration elsewhere in Scripture?

Spoiler

Theology

Of the original manuscripts, or our English translations?

I don't find it helpful to discuss "original manuscripts." We don't have them.

There's no such thing as a perfect translation. Each language codifies parts of the culture to which it belongs. You can translate base meaning from one language to another, but cultural nuances simply don't translate.

Some languages have types of words that others don't. For instance, Biblical Greek has perfect participles, and a bunch of different ways to case them. English doesn't have those things, and instead uses additional "helping" words to try to achieve the same meaning. It doesn't always work.

Biblical Hebrew is a mess. Every word contains letters that are not written out, and the reader/translator is expected to imply the correct letters. Depending on what letters you imply, you could end up with a dozen different meanings. There are also no spaces between words, so the reader/translator also needs to figure out where each words starts and stops. Finally, there are places where the authors deliberately use this ambiguity about what each word means to give multiple meanings. It's completely impossible to translate all the meanings - the translator is forced to pick a single meaning for the word when he translates.

Rambling now... ending...