Did God Foresee Adam’s Disobedience?

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marks

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Or they're going to a church that slowly but surely confuses the mind by incorrectly exegeting verses to agree with Calvin, and the like, instead of what the NT actually says and is in plain sight for all to see.

Anyone reading the NT on their own would NEVER come to the conclusion that God chooses persons to be saved or not.
It's just not there.
I think so also, that preconceived ideas get in there, and suddenly someone is reading a verse a little different from what it says, or inserting thoughts into passages, like that we invited to come to Jesus, and He will give us rest, then the added bit, but only if you've been prechosen to come to Him. And it turns the whole passage into a lie, As though God is inviting all to come but He's not, really, just making it sound like He is, when He's not.

Jesus not only says His words are true, but that He Himself IS truth.

Let God be true, and every man a liar.

Much love!
 
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ChristinaL

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Dear GodsGrace,
Salvation does not come before faith and I do not teach that it does. Faith in Christ is what makes Christ's pathway straight for Him to come and convert a person into the new vessel. This spiritual process is called conversion and is taught over and over again in scripture "here a little and there a little".

Below is the pathway to salvation that Christ will cause His Elect to travel. This pathway was established by Christ shortly after Paul's death when the spirit of anti-Christ came and devoured the church (only the unconverted believers/the babes):

When Christ decides to begin the process of salvation for a person, He will come to them without their asking and without their permission. When He comes, Christ will freely give them the Early Rain of the Spirit. Christ gives the person this gift because of His grace and not because of anything (works) that the person did to deserve it. And because the person is carnal, they are veiled from knowing when it happened. However, they can know that it happened later when they make a confession of faith after the Gospel is presented to them. Without the Spirit (even the small amount of the Early Rain), no man can call Jesus "Lord" and with the Spirit, they will always accept Him.

1Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.

The Early Rain of the Spirit is what Peter received prior to him recognizing that Jesus was the Christ.

Mat 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? 16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Christ calls Peter "blessed" because He was given the Early Rain of the Spirit which revealed who Jesus actually was. Christ then says that the only reason he could "see" this truth was because it was revealed to him by His Father. Peter had no ability of his own to know this truth about Jesus if he had not been given to Peter (via the Early Rain of the Spirit). Christ then continued and said that it is upon this rock (the foundation) that He will build His church. And since Peter's confession originated from having the Early Rain of the Spirit, so will everyone else's confession.

Since the Early Rain of the Spirit is given in "measure" (a small amount, a "seed"), it will leave the new believer carnally minded, spiritually blind and unconverted. This is the spiritual condition of all new "babes" in Christ. They will have a "measure of faith" but little else beyond knowing "Christ and Him crucified". It is at this point that the person will enter the church.

Next, Satan will come to the new believer and plant his seed within them, too. His seed is the spirit of anti-Christ. Now the new believer as both the Early Rain of the Spirit and the spirit of anti-Christ within themselves. This causes a spiritual war to develop over who will govern the person. Since the Early Rain of the Spirit is given in "measure" and the person is unable to understand the spiritual truths of the New Covenant, Satan has no trouble deceiving the new believer into thinking that he is Christ (an angel of Light) and that his lies are truth. Paul mentions it here:

2Cor 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

Christ mentions it here:

Mat 12:43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. 44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. 45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself SEVEN other spirits (represents the spirit of anti-Christ) more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

After the new believer is deceived, they will accept Satan's "another gospel" which mixes "works" with faith. When the believer commits this sin, they will "fall from grace" and lose their salvation. This is the "sin that leads to death" that Paul and John mentioned in their letters.

The believer will remain in this fallen away condition until they die OR (if they are one of the Elect) until Christ restores their faith by giving them the Latter Rain of the Spirit. Peter received the Latter Rain of the Spirit on the Day of Pentecost with the other 119 Jewish Elect. Judgment also fell on him and he was converted. Paul received the Latter Rain of the Spirit after being in Damascus for three days.

Besides restoring the believer's faith, the Latter Rain of the Spirit will also heal the person's spiritual blindness and cause the person to be "born again". With their blindness healed, Christ will appear and gather the new child of God to heaven (spiritually speaking). In other words, the believer is added to the Kingdom of Heaven but they will still physically dwell on the earth until they die. After this event, judgment will follow and remove the spirit of anti-Christ and the Great Harlot (represents the person's carnal nature) from within the believer. Both will be cast into the Lake of Fire for destruction. Mat 24:37-41 and Rev 19:11-21 teach this truth. After the person's judgment is complete, the believer is converted and will never fall away again. Their salvation is secured and they will receive their rewards upon their resurrection from the grave.

This is how Christ builds His church and He starts with the foundation of the confession of faith.

Joe
Oh complete nonsense. Though the new believer may be spiritually immature the spirit of God and the Spirit of antichrist do not coexist within the same person. Matthew 12:43 also does not refer to a beleiver but a demon possessed man who had the demon cast out without also preaching the gospel to the man and getting Him saved.

And though believer may fall away they do not lose their salvation. For God's gifts are without repentance Rom 11:29
 
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GodsGrace

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I think so also, that preconceived ideas get in there, and suddenly someone is reading a verse a little different from what it says, or inserting thoughts into passages, like that we invited to come to Jesus, and He will give us rest, then the added bit, but only if you've been prechosen to come to Him. And it turns the whole passage into a lie, As though God is inviting all to come but He's not, really, just making it sound like He is, when He's not.

Jesus not only says His words are true, but that He Himself IS truth.

Let God be true, and every man a liar.

Much love!
Yes! Agreed.
I do believe the other member is incorrectly exegeting verses.
Preconceived ideas would cause this to happen....
reading INTO--------- (eisegesis)
instead of OUT FROM..(exegesis)
 
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FaithWillDo

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Oh complete nonsense. Though the new believer may be spiritually immature the spirit of God and the Spirit of antichrist do not coexist within the same person. Matthew 12:43 also does not refer to a beleiver but a demon possessed man who had the demon cast out without also preaching the gospel to the man and getting Him saved.

And though believer may fall away they do not lose their salvation. For God's gifts are without repentance Rom 11:29
Dear Christinal,
There are many scriptures which teach that the churches that were started in the 1st century all became apostate shortly after Paul's death.

Acts 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. 30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. 31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

This revelation was very distressing news for Paul because he loved the churches very much. Even to this day, nothing has changed over the centuries since the churches all became apostate. The apostate church consists of nearly 2,000 different denominations/sects/groups of spiritually blind believers (babes). Though there are many different beliefs taught in these churches, the one common denominator they all have that is they all teach a gospel which mixes works with faith. It is from this false gospel that Satan kills the saints (Mat 24:9 & Rev 11:7).

"Falling away" is the term that Paul uses to describe a believer (a babe) who starts mixing their own "works" with faith. This is the sin that leads to death that both Paul and John mention in their letters.

Consider the scripture below which describes how Satan builds his apostate church. My comments are in blue.

Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts (converted Elect believers). 10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: 11 For with stammering lips and another language (spiritual language) will he speak to this people. 12 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they (babes) might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken (by Satan).

Christ begins the salvation process for a person when He comes to them (without their asking or permission) and gives them the Early Rain of the Spirit. This is what the apostles received when they walked with Christ and is what Paul received on the Damascus Road.

With the small amount of the Early Rain of the Spirit, the person will have a "measure of faith" and certain spiritual gifts. But the Early Rain of the Spirit will leave the new believer (a babe) spiritually blind, carnally minded and unconverted. In this condition, Satan will easily deceive the new believer and cause them to "fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken". No new believer can avoid becoming apostate because we all start the pathway to salvation as a "babe".

For the believers who have been chosen for salvation in this age (the Elect), Christ will come to them a second time and pour out the Latter Rain of the Spirit. The apostles received the Latter Rain of the Spirit on the Day of Pentecost and Paul received the Latter Rain of the Spirit after being in Damascus for three days.

With the baptism of the Spirit, the believer's spiritual blindness will be healed and they will "see" the Abomination of Desolation that previously occurred within themselves when the spirit of anti-Christ indwelt them. Judgment will then fall and remove and destroy the spirit of anti-Christ and the Great Harlot from within the believer (Mat 24:37-41). The believer will then be converted and saved.

Christ also described how the apostasy happens to a new believer in the scripture below:

Mat 12:43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. 44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. 45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself SEVEN other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

The spiritual symbol of an unclean spirit represents a spirit which teaches Satan's false truth through lies and deceptions.

Since a new believer remains spiritually blind (Mark 8:21-25) after receiving the Early Rain of the Spirit, they cannot replace their worldly false beliefs with the truth of Christ. ONE unclean spirit leaves but comes back with SEVEN more. The number "seven" represents perfection. In this case, the number seven represents the perfection of Satan's lies/deceptions which come to a believer by the indwelling of the spirit of anti-Christ. Now, instead of ONE unclean spirit within the believer, they now have EIGHT. The number eight is a spiritual symbol which represents a new spiritual condition. In this case, the new spiritual condition is worse than the first.

This "worse than the first" spiritual condition causes the believer to become a False Prophet, a Man of Sin, a Minister of Satan and a Seven Headed Beast with Ten Horns & Crowns.

The parable of the Wheat and the Tares also describes how a new believer becomes apostate.

Shortly after Christ plants His seed of the Early Rain within the person (represented by the "field"), Satan will come to them "at night" (time of their spiritual blindness) and plant his seed of the spirit of anti-Christ within the believer, too. Both seeds will grow within the believer which will cause a spiritual war to develop within the person. Since the Early Rain of the Spirit was given in "measure", the spirit of anti-Christ will win the war and begin governing the new believer. This is when the believer falls away and becomes apostate. When the time for the harvest arrives, Christ will "come again" and pour the Latter Rain of the Spirit. This will restore the believer's faith (no works) which will make Christ's pathway straight for Him to appear. When He appears, He will gather the new child of God to heaven (the barn) and commence His judgment upon the believer to remove the tares. The believer will then be converted and saved.

The Parable of the Ten Virgins teaches this same truth about the apostasy but instead of Christ using the farming analogy, He uses the marriage analogy. All ten people are made virgins when Christ gives each of them the Early Rain of the Spirit. They all then begin waiting for the Bridegroom to return for the marriage. As they wait, they all sleep and slumber (represents spiritually dying) during the night (time of their spiritual blindness). When the call goes out at midnight (the deepest time of blindness when the person has become a man of sin) that the Bridegroom is returning, the Wise Virgins will use the extra oil to light their way to meet the Bridegroom. The extra oil represents the Latter Rain of the Spirit which restores their faith. When the Bridegroom appears, He will take His virgin back for the marriage.

All the parables that begin with the phrase "the Kingdom of Heaven is like" are teaching on certain aspects of the pathway to salvation that all the Elect will travel before they die.

Here is a very short one that also teaches how the apostasy occurs within a believer:

Mat 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

The "leaven" represents Satan's lies/deceptions. The woman is the Great Harlot. She represents the carnal spirit that is within all mankind. She takes the leaven from Satan via the spirit of anti-Christ which is within the believer. She secretly mixes the leaven in 3 measures of meal (truth) until the whole loaf is leavened. When the believer consumes this loaf, they unknowingly come under Satan's deceptions and fall away.

There are many other such teachings in scripture which describe the pathway to salvation that all the Elect (since Paul's death) will travel. No believer has any free will ability to avoid it.

Joe
 

FaithWillDo

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Yes! Agreed.
I do believe the other member is incorrectly exegeting verses.
Preconceived ideas would cause this to happen....
reading INTO--------- (eisegesis)
instead of OUT FROM..(exegesis)
Dear GodsGrace,
I used to believe very much like you do prior to my conversion in 2005. But everything changed for me after Christ gave me the Latter Rain of the Spirit and healed by spiritual blindness. At that time, my worldly paradigm with which I understood God's Word changed to a spiritual paradigm.

My conversion testimony is presented on my teaching website shown just below my member name.

Joe
 

marks

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the spirit of anti-Christ which is within the believer.
I think you have become confused. If you'd care to post the Scripture that you feel teaches this we can look at it together.

Much love!
 

marks

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All ten people are made virgins when Christ gives each of them the Early Rain of the Spirit.
This is literally eisegesis, you've added into that passage something not even remotely present in the parable Jesus told.

Much love!
 
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ChristinaL

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Dear Christinal,
There are many scriptures which teach that the churches that were started in the 1st century all became apostate shortly after Paul's death.

Acts 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. 30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. 31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

This revelation was very distressing news for Paul because he loved the churches very much. Even to this day, nothing has changed over the centuries since the churches all became apostate. The apostate church consists of nearly 2,000 different denominations/sects/groups of spiritually blind believers (babes). Though there are many different beliefs taught in these churches, the one common denominator they all have that is they all teach a gospel which mixes works with faith. It is from this false gospel that Satan kills the saints (Mat 24:9 & Rev 11:7).

"Falling away" is the term that Paul uses to describe a believer (a babe) who starts mixing their own "works" with faith. This is the sin that leads to death that both Paul and John mention in their letters.

Consider the scripture below which describes how Satan builds his apostate church. My comments are in blue.

Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts (converted Elect believers). 10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: 11 For with stammering lips and another language (spiritual language) will he speak to this people. 12 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they (babes) might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken (by Satan).

Christ begins the salvation process for a person when He comes to them (without their asking or permission) and gives them the Early Rain of the Spirit. This is what the apostles received when they walked with Christ and is what Paul received on the Damascus Road.

With the small amount of the Early Rain of the Spirit, the person will have a "measure of faith" and certain spiritual gifts. But the Early Rain of the Spirit will leave the new believer (a babe) spiritually blind, carnally minded and unconverted. In this condition, Satan will easily deceive the new believer and cause them to "fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken". No new believer can avoid becoming apostate because we all start the pathway to salvation as a "babe".

For the believers who have been chosen for salvation in this age (the Elect), Christ will come to them a second time and pour out the Latter Rain of the Spirit. The apostles received the Latter Rain of the Spirit on the Day of Pentecost and Paul received the Latter Rain of the Spirit after being in Damascus for three days.

With the baptism of the Spirit, the believer's spiritual blindness will be healed and they will "see" the Abomination of Desolation that previously occurred within themselves when the spirit of anti-Christ indwelt them. Judgment will then fall and remove and destroy the spirit of anti-Christ and the Great Harlot from within the believer (Mat 24:37-41). The believer will then be converted and saved.

Christ also described how the apostasy happens to a new believer in the scripture below:

Mat 12:43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. 44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. 45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself SEVEN other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

The spiritual symbol of an unclean spirit represents a spirit which teaches Satan's false truth through lies and deceptions.

Since a new believer remains spiritually blind (Mark 8:21-25) after receiving the Early Rain of the Spirit, they cannot replace their worldly false beliefs with the truth of Christ. ONE unclean spirit leaves but comes back with SEVEN more. The number "seven" represents perfection. In this case, the number seven represents the perfection of Satan's lies/deceptions which come to a believer by the indwelling of the spirit of anti-Christ. Now, instead of ONE unclean spirit within the believer, they now have EIGHT. The number eight is a spiritual symbol which represents a new spiritual condition. In this case, the new spiritual condition is worse than the first.

This "worse than the first" spiritual condition causes the believer to become a False Prophet, a Man of Sin, a Minister of Satan and a Seven Headed Beast with Ten Horns & Crowns.

The parable of the Wheat and the Tares also describes how a new believer becomes apostate.

Shortly after Christ plants His seed of the Early Rain within the person (represented by the "field"), Satan will come to them "at night" (time of their spiritual blindness) and plant his seed of the spirit of anti-Christ within the believer, too. Both seeds will grow within the believer which will cause a spiritual war to develop within the person. Since the Early Rain of the Spirit was given in "measure", the spirit of anti-Christ will win the war and begin governing the new believer. This is when the believer falls away and becomes apostate. When the time for the harvest arrives, Christ will "come again" and pour the Latter Rain of the Spirit. This will restore the believer's faith (no works) which will make Christ's pathway straight for Him to appear. When He appears, He will gather the new child of God to heaven (the barn) and commence His judgment upon the believer to remove the tares. The believer will then be converted and saved.

The Parable of the Ten Virgins teaches this same truth about the apostasy but instead of Christ using the farming analogy, He uses the marriage analogy. All ten people are made virgins when Christ gives each of them the Early Rain of the Spirit. They all then begin waiting for the Bridegroom to return for the marriage. As they wait, they all sleep and slumber (represents spiritually dying) during the night (time of their spiritual blindness). When the call goes out at midnight (the deepest time of blindness when the person has become a man of sin) that the Bridegroom is returning, the Wise Virgins will use the extra oil to light their way to meet the Bridegroom. The extra oil represents the Latter Rain of the Spirit which restores their faith. When the Bridegroom appears, He will take His virgin back for the marriage.

All the parables that begin with the phrase "the Kingdom of Heaven is like" are teaching on certain aspects of the pathway to salvation that all the Elect will travel before they die.

Here is a very short one that also teaches how the apostasy occurs within a believer:

Mat 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

The "leaven" represents Satan's lies/deceptions. The woman is the Great Harlot. She represents the carnal spirit that is within all mankind. She takes the leaven from Satan via the spirit of anti-Christ which is within the believer. She secretly mixes the leaven in 3 measures of meal (truth) until the whole loaf is leavened. When the believer consumes this loaf, they unknowingly come under Satan's deceptions and fall away.

There are many other such teachings in scripture which describe the pathway to salvation that all the Elect (since Paul's death) will travel. No believer has any free will ability to avoid it.

Joe
I cant respond much to this crushingly long response of yours because having Parkinsons severely limits me. But you have a lot to learn about not reading into scripture what isnt there. I stand by what I know to be true
 

GodsGrace

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Dear GodsGrace,
You asked:
What version are you reading?
What do you think Ecc 1:13 is stating?


The translation is from the Concordant Literal Translation.

Here is the full verse:

Ecc 1:13 Ecc 1:13 I applied my heart to inquiring and exploring by wisdom all that is done under the heavens; an experience of evil (ra) God has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it.

Faith, I'm not here to suggest which version you should be reading, but the Concordant Literal Translation leaves much to be desired.

Here's Ecclesiastes 1:13 in a different version You'll see that it does not intend to say what you understand it to mean:

NIV
13I applied my mind to study and to explore by wisdom all that is done under the heavens. What a heavy burden God has laid on mankind!

NASB
. 13And I set my mind to seek and explore by wisdom concerning all that has been done under heaven. It is a grievous task which God has given to the sons of men to be afflicted with.

It's basically saying that man has a difficult life here on earth,
and everything in the OT is attributed to God...

I'd say that the difficult life is attributable to everything having been infected with the sin nature.
Adam broke his relationship with
GOD
HIMSELF
OTHER PERSONS
NATURE




You asked:
So you think God makes mistakes?

Absolutely not. God made Adam and Eve spiritually marred and subject to vanity on purpose. He created them this way so that they would sin and experience evil. In this way, they would experientially learn about good and evil.

So why do you believe that Adam and Eve sinned?

Eve sinned because she was deceived by satan.
Genesis 3:1 satan was the most crafty of all the beasts.

It's not certain why Adam ate of the fruit.
Some believe it might be because he didn't want Eve to be alone in her sinful state.
We cannot be sure of what is not written...
We should not add our own thought and beliefs to the biblical narrative.

The apostate church teaches that God took a chance with Adam and Eve by giving them a free will ability. With this free will ability, Adam and Eve choose to disobey God. However, this teaching has ZERO scriptural support and is contradicted by numerous scriptures. The truth is that God did not give Adam and Eve a free will ability. Only God the Father has a free will ability to do as He pleases. Everyone else's "will" is governed by God.
Please state the verses that support your theory that Adam and Eve did not have free will.

Because of this belief in man's free will ability, Paul said this about apostate believers:

2Thes 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there comes a falling away first, and that MAN OF SIN be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

What does the above, 2 Thes 2:1 have to do with free will?

The Doctrine of Free Will taught by the apostate church is the reason that the man of sin (the worsen child of the devil) sits in God's temple (place where the Holy Spirit resides) claiming to be God. This is the Abomination of Desolation the Christ mentions in Mat 24:15.

You said:
YOU have to show with some scripture that states that God did NOT make Adam and Eve perfect...
none of your verses state this.


Jer 18:4 and Rom 8:20 clearly state that Adam & Eve were created spiritually marred and subject to vanity. This is the reason they sinned. When Christ came into the world, He received the same type of physical body that Adam and Eve were given, BUT Christ was spiritually perfect. It was because He was spiritually perfect that He never sinned. After Christ converts a spiritual marred and sinful person, they will be like Christ and will likewise never sin. This is how Christ saves mankind and produces new children for His Father.
NO Faith,,,,this is how YOU interpret Jer 18:4 and Rom 8:20.

As I've stated before, if you're going to use Jeremiah 18:4 to support your ideas,
then you're also going to have to admit that God makes mistakes.

Just saying it does not make it so....
YOU stated that God made a vessel and had to start over.
So YOU are stating that God made a mistake.

So you can not then state that God does not make mistakes-

Our God is a great God and does not make mistakes.
Psalm 145:3. God is infinite. If He made just one mistake He would be fallible.

So God cannot make marred objects.

God’s ability to do all things and comprehend all matters also prevents Him from making mistakes: “Great is our Lord and mighty in power; his understanding has no limit” (Psalm 147:5). Again, Scripture shows that God is infallible. Limited knowledge leads to mistakes, but God has unlimited knowledge and makes no mistakes.
source: Does God make mistakes? | GotQuestions.org


part 1 of 2
 

GodsGrace

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part 2 of 2
@FaithWillDo

You said:
If a food looks good to you,
If something is pleasant for your eyes,,,
You have not sinned yet, have you?

These verses are explaining WHY satan was able to deceive Eve.
Satan decieves us in exactly the same way.....the verses are a warning.....

Could you tell us what gifts God gave to Adam and Eve that we do not have?

Did they HAVE any gifts?
Or were they just two blokes God created to have some fun with?


Eve sinned because she was spiritually marred and became carnally minded. Because of this, she put her needs above following the commandments of God. Satan's temptation just exposed what was already "within" Eve (and Adam, too). All their offspring are just as spiritually marred and carnally minded as they were. For that reason, the Father sent Christ into the world to spiritually change mankind into a new spiritually perfect vessel. This is the purpose for this creation.

As for "gifts" that Adam and Eve were given, scripture never mentions that they were given any. They were completely carnal and because of such, they became sinful.
Sorry F, but you need to study some theology.
These are the gifts Adam and Eve had been given to them by God:

They were meant to live forever...
IMMORTALITY

They lived in harmony with God and were innocent until they became ashamed of their nakedness...
ABSENCE OF THE SIN NATURE

They had no need to study about God, they had....
INFUSED KNOWLEDGE

Your comment about "just two blokes" is disrespectful to God. God made Adam and Eve to be His children and He loved them very much.
I'm disrespectful to God.
But a person that states that God makes mistaken vessels as per Jer 18,
and creates persons with defect in them so that they could sin....
THIS IS NOT DISRESPECT FOR GOD.

You are AGAIN causing conflict by your odd ideas.

And because He loves them (and all their offspring), God the Father sent Christ into the world to change mankind into a new spiritually perfect vessel. It is with great tribulation that God births new children who will be like Him.

You said:

Proverbs 20:24 A mans' steps are directed by the Lord. God is trying to direct you by taking the right action for the situations that come up just before that verse and just after it.

God is not "trying" to direct our steps, He is doing it.

This verse applies:

Mat 4:4 But he answered and said, it is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Some of God's words that mankind follow are "evil" words:

Lam 3:38 Out of the mouth of the Most High doth not there proceed evil and good?

God is giving mankind an experience of evil and since God controls all things, He is the cause of that evil. When God's purpose for evil has been satisfied, God will end it.

Listen to the words of Job:

Job 2:10 But he said to her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. We have also received good from God, and should we not receive evil? In all this Job did not sin with his lips.

You then asked:

How does Proverbs 3:5-6 make any sense?

Prov 3:5 Trust unto Jehovah with all thy heart, And unto thine own understanding lean not. 6 In all thy ways know thou Him, And He doth make straight thy paths.


Presently, mankind is following the "crooked" path of approaching God by trying to make themselves acceptable to God by their own works. This is called "religion" and is the way that Satan's "another gospel" teaches. For that reason, scripture calls Satan the "crooked serpent". To change mankind from following the crooked way, God sent Christ into the world to show mankind the "straight way" which leads to God. The straight way is placing our faith & trust in Him to supply all our needs. After Christ converts a person, they will only approach God by the straight way. They will then understand that their "works" were nothing more than "filthy rags".

CONTINUED ON THE NEXT POST...
I'm through here Faith.

Learn some theology - I don't even care which denomination...
but at least become biblical in some sense.

I will no longer reply to your nonsense since YOU are not the one making Christianity what it is.
Christianity is already established.
Learn it.
 

FaithWillDo

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This is literally eisegesis, you've added into that passage something not even remotely present in the parable Jesus told.

Much love!
Dear marks,
To understand the parables, a person must understand the spiritual language of Christ and then look elsewhere in scripture to fill in the gaps.

In Paul's writings, the Early Rain occurs when an unbeliever receives the Early Rain of the Spirit. With the Spirit, the new believer is "espoused" to Christ and becomes a "chaste virgin" (faithful). All ten virgins are in this faithful spiritual condition when the parable of the ten virgins starts.

Joe
 

GodsGrace

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Dear GodsGrace,
I used to believe very much like you do prior to my conversion in 2005. But everything changed for me after Christ gave me the Latter Rain of the Spirit and healed by spiritual blindness. At that time, my worldly paradigm with which I understood God's Word changed to a spiritual paradigm.

My conversion testimony is presented on my teaching website shown just below my member name.

Joe
That's very nice, but I'll stick to the bible.
Which is what YOU should do.

What would happen if each one of us came on these forums with our very own idea of what Christianity is
or what spirituality is?

You're so far off course I have no choice but to leave this highway.

I do apologize for this.

And remember James 3:1
Take it seriously because someone that spend over 3 years in the presence of Jesus and learning from Jesus has made this statement.
 
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FaithWillDo

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That's very nice, but I'll stick to the bible.
Which is what YOU should do.

What would happen if each one of us came on these forums with our very own idea of what Christianity is
or what spirituality is?

You're so far off course I have no choice but to leave this highway.

I do apologize for this.

And remember James 3:1
Take it seriously because someone that spend over 3 years in the presence of Jesus and learning from Jesus has made this statement.
Dear GodsGrace,
This verse applies to our discussion:

Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: 17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

In the spiritual language of Christ, "buying" represents accepting a belief from another person and "selling" is teaching a belief to another person. As the verse states, any person who has the mark of the beast cannot teach or receive truth from those who don't have the mark. Only believers in the apostate church can accept each others understanding of scripture.

The mark of the beast occurs when the spirit of anti-Christ indwells a believer. In contrast, the sealing of God occurs to an Elect believer when they receive the Latter Rain of the Spirit. Both events are spiritual and cannot be seen with human eyes.

Joe
 

marks

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To understand the parables, a person must understand the spiritual language of Christ and then look elsewhere in scripture to fill in the gaps.
That you feel there are gaps indicates to me that you are not understanding the parable. In this instance, Jesus actually told us what it means.

In Paul's writings, the Early Rain occurs when an unbeliever receives the Early Rain of the Spirit. With the Spirit, the new believer is "espoused" to Christ and becomes a "chaste virgin" (faithful). All ten virgins are in this faithful spiritual condition when the parable of the ten virgins starts.
That's not in Paul's writings. If you think so, post the passage and let's look at it together.

Much love!
 
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ChristinaL

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That's very nice, but I'll stick to the bible.
Which is what YOU should do.

What would happen if each one of us came on these forums with our very own idea of what Christianity is
or what spirituality is?

You're so far off course I have no choice but to leave this highway.

I do apologize for this.

And remember James 3:1
Take it seriously because someone that spend over 3 years in the presence of Jesus and learning from Jesus has made this statement.
I must be a glutton for punishment because i rarely seem to know when to just drop these people lol
 
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marks

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What would happen if each one of us came on these forums with our very own idea of what Christianity is
or what spirituality is?
I've think we've seen lots of that, this forum is like the wild west!

Much love!
 

FaithWillDo

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I'm looking for a direct response to my query. If you are not interested I fully understand.

Much love!
Dear marks,
My post to ChristianL answers your question.

Here is a portion of my post plus a little more:

Mat 12:43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. 44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. 45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself SEVEN other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

The spiritual symbol of an unclean spirit represents a spirit which teaches Satan's false truth through lies and deceptions.

Since a new believer remains spiritually blind (Mark 8:21-25) after receiving the Early Rain of the Spirit, they cannot replace their worldly false beliefs with the truth of Christ. ONE unclean spirit leaves but comes back with SEVEN more. The number "seven" represents perfection. In this case, the number seven represents the perfection of Satan's lies/deceptions which come to a believer by the indwelling of the spirit of anti-Christ. Now, instead of ONE unclean spirit within the believer, they now have EIGHT. The number eight is a spiritual symbol which represents a new spiritual condition. In this case, the new spiritual condition is worse than the first.

This "worse than the first" spiritual condition causes the believer to become a False Prophet, a Man of Sin, a Minister of Satan and a Seven Headed Beast with Ten Horns & Crowns.

Christ also taught about the spirit of anti-Christ in these verses below:

Mar 5:2 And when he was come out of the ship, immediately there met him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit, 3 Who had his dwelling among the tombs; and no man could bind him, no, not with chains: 4 Because that he had been often bound with fetters and chains, and the chains had been plucked asunder by him, and the fetters broken in pieces: neither could any man tame him. 5 And always, night and day, he was in the mountains, and in the tombs, crying, and cutting himself with stones. 6 But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him, 7 And cried with a loud voice, and said, what have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not. 8 For he said unto him, Come out of the man, thou unclean spirit. 9 And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, my name is LEGION; for we are many. 10 And he besought him much that he would not send them away out of the country. 11 Now there was there nigh unto the mountains a great herd of swine feeding. 12 And all the devils besought him, saying, Send us into the swine, that we may enter into them. 13 And forthwith Jesus gave them leave. And the unclean spirits went out, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the sea, (they were about two thousand and were choked in the sea.

The "man" who is possessed by the many unclean spirits represents an Elect believer who has been fully made into a Man of Sin. In this “worse than the first” spiritual condition, he is ready for the “end” to come.

This verse applies to the possessed man:

Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

In this verse above, the “gospel of the kingdom” is the “another gospel” mentioned in 2Cor 11:4 and the “kingdom” is Satan’s kingdom.

2Cor 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus (Satan), whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit (spirit of anti-Christ), which ye have not received, or another gospel (works mixed with faith), which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

The phrase “preached in all the world” represents that Satan’s lies and deceptions have been fully taught to the believer by the spirit of anti-Christ . The “nations” represent the ruling thoughts and beliefs of the believer. The “end” comes to the believer when Christ “comes again” and pours out the Latter Rain; followed by the judgment of the Day of the Lord. This is the conversion event when the Man of Sin is destroyed.

Back to the story of the possessed man: the stones the man uses to cut himself represent the Law of Moses (man’s work). The unclean spirit (Legion, who are many) represents the spirit of anti-Christ who has spiritually killed the man (he dwells among the tombs). Through the deceptions from Satan’s spirit is how Satan kills the saints (Mat 24:9, Rev 11:7).

When Christ comes to the possessed man with the Latter Rain of the Spirit, Christ drives out the spirit of anti-Christ by the brightness of His appearing (2Thes 2:8). Before this judgment happens though, Legion asks to go into the great herd of Swine feeding upon the hill.

The spiritual symbol “swine” represents all called out believers (Early Rain only). In the story, their number is said to be about “2000”. This number is also a spiritual symbol and is understood as 2x10x10x10.

The number two represents the witness of God who are the Elect. The number ten represents “completeness”. When it is repeated three times, the meaning of the number three is added to the equation. The number three represents a spiritual process.

With these meanings, we can now discern what the herd of 2,000 swine represents. It represents Elect believers who have only received the Early Rain and who are now going through a spiritual process. When it is complete, they will be made “worse than the first” and will become a Man of Sin. When Legion (spirit of anti-Christ) enters the Swine, they run into the sea and are spiritually killed just as the possessed man was killed earlier.

The spirit of anti-Christ invaded the church in the 1st century A.D. and devoured it.

John tells the church that the spirit of anti-Christ is coming and has in fact, already come:

1John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

John also presents the spirit of anti-Christ as the False Prophet:

Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. 12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

Rev 19:20 And the Beast was taken, and with him the False Prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Paul calls the believer who has the indwelling spirit of anti-Christ a Man of Sin:

2Thes 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there comes a falling away first, and that MAN OF SIN be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

It will be tonight or maybe tomorrow morning before I will have time to make any other posts (as the Lord "wills").

Joe
 

FaithWillDo

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That you feel there are gaps indicates to me that you are not understanding the parable. In this instance, Jesus actually told us what it means.


That's not in Paul's writings. If you think so, post the passage and let's look at it together.

Much love!
Dear marks,
Just a quick response:

2Cor 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

A person is only made into a chaste virgin by having the Spirit within them which gives them their faith. Being made into a chaste virgin is the same event as receiving the Early Rain of the Spirit used in the farming analogy.

There are other teachings about the marriage analogy in the OT and in Rev chapter 19.

Joe