Do you believe the good tidings were only for SOME people, or for all People? (regardless of response)
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Good tidings of great joy, which shall be to SOME people?
- Thread starter St. SteVen
- Start date
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2 Corinthians 2
14 Now thanks be to God who always leads us in triumph in Christ, and through us [d]diffuses the fragrance of His knowledge in every place.
15 For we are to God the fragrance of Christ among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing.
16 To the one we are the aroma of death leading to death, and to the other the aroma of life leading to life. And who is sufficient for these things?
17 For we are not, as [e]so many, peddling[f] the word of God; but as of sincerity, but as from God, we speak in the sight of God in Christ.
As you read it depends
Philippians 1
27 Only let your conduct be worthy of the gospel of Christ, so that whether I come and see you or am absent, I may hear of your affairs, that you stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel,
28 and not in any way terrified by your adversaries, which is to them a proof of perdition, but [f]to you of salvation, and that from God.
29 For to you it has been granted on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake, 30 having the same conflict which you saw in me and now hear is in me.
Philippians 1
27 Only let your conduct be worthy of the gospel of Christ, so that whether I come and see you or am absent, I may hear of your affairs, that you stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel,
28 and not in any way terrified by your adversaries, which is to them a proof of perdition, but [f]to you of salvation, and that from God.
29 For to you it has been granted on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake, 30 having the same conflict which you saw in me and now hear is in me.
St. SteVen said:
Do you believe the good tidings were only for SOME people, or for all People? (regardless of response)
Makes it only for SOME instead of for all people?
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Do you believe the good tidings were only for SOME people, or for all People? (regardless of response)
Does that NEGATE the Good News?
Makes it only for SOME instead of for all people?
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I don't read too much into what the angel said, The angel is not getting into specifics, it's a general statement.
The good news is all men can be reconciled to God through believing in Christ to have eternal never ending life and not die in hell.
The gospel will go out to all people of all nations, but not everyone will believe the gospel. They did not back then and they do not today, but some do believe.
Hmm... choirs of angels, no big deal?
Sounds like you are reading A LOT into it.
I mostly agree.
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The angel does not expound on what he says to fully explain everything he says.
Not an expository preaching of the whole gospel and counsel of God
He says three things
Then the angel said to them,
1.“Do not be afraid, for behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy which will be to all people.
2. For there is born to you this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord.
3 And this will be the sign to you: You will find a Babe wrapped in swaddling cloths, lying in a [d]manger.”
13 And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God and saying:
14 “Glory to God in the highest,
And on earth peace, goodwill[e] toward men!”
Then they leave
This is an announcement coming from heaven regarding the birth of Christ, it is not the gospel of Christ in which many secrets are revealed.
Of course it is marvelous, wonderful, and would have been amazing to see.
Not an expository preaching of the whole gospel and counsel of God
He says three things
Then the angel said to them,
1.“Do not be afraid, for behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy which will be to all people.
2. For there is born to you this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord.
3 And this will be the sign to you: You will find a Babe wrapped in swaddling cloths, lying in a [d]manger.”
13 And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God and saying:
14 “Glory to God in the highest,
And on earth peace, goodwill[e] toward men!”
Then they leave
This is an announcement coming from heaven regarding the birth of Christ, it is not the gospel of Christ in which many secrets are revealed.
Of course it is marvelous, wonderful, and would have been amazing to see.
I don't understand why you are putting up barriers to what they said as if it was totally questionable.
Probably an attack based on disagreeing with me personally.
Two things: (from the scripture/comments you provided) Thank you.
1) I bring you good tidings of great joy which will be to all people.
2) “Glory to God in the highest, And on earth peace, goodwill[e] toward men!” - vs 14
Why do you think the Good Tidings of Great Joy are not for ALL of humankind? (regardless of response)
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--- PARODY ---
Scene from the shepherds outside Bethlehem at Christ's birth.
Angel: I bring you good tidings of great joy which will be to SOME people.
Shepherds: Wow! What is it?
Angel: Born to you this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord.
Shepherds: That's great news, but why only for SOME people?
Angel: Not everyone will believe.
Shepherds: Why would that diminish the "good tidings of great joy"?
Angel: It's only good news for believers.
Shepherds: What is it for everyone else?
Angel: Really BAD news.
Shepherds: Do you really expect us to share this with anyone?
Angel: Cue the choir...
13 And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God and saying:
14 “Glory to God in the highest,
And on earth peace, goodwill[e] toward men!”
Shepherds: (sigh)
[
Scene from the shepherds outside Bethlehem at Christ's birth.
Angel: I bring you good tidings of great joy which will be to SOME people.
Shepherds: Wow! What is it?
Angel: Born to you this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord.
Shepherds: That's great news, but why only for SOME people?
Angel: Not everyone will believe.
Shepherds: Why would that diminish the "good tidings of great joy"?
Angel: It's only good news for believers.
Shepherds: What is it for everyone else?
Angel: Really BAD news.
Shepherds: Do you really expect us to share this with anyone?
Angel: Cue the choir...
13 And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God and saying:
14 “Glory to God in the highest,
And on earth peace, goodwill[e] toward men!”
Shepherds: (sigh)
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Good tidings of great joy, which shall be to SOME people?
Wait... that's not what it says.
Shouldn't it say, "... good tidings of great joy, which shall be to ALL people."?
Yes indeed.
But what are we taught? It is NOT for all people, but only for SOME.
- Why would there be joy for all people when we limit the glad tidings to the Elect?
- How could it be for all people when we claim the narrow way, and FEW that find it?
- What about the countless billions that have never even heard? Tidings of great joy for them?
Luke 2:10 NIV
And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold,
I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.
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Wait... that's not what it says.
Shouldn't it say, "... good tidings of great joy, which shall be to ALL people."?
Yes indeed.
But what are we taught? It is NOT for all people, but only for SOME.
- Why would there be joy for all people when we limit the glad tidings to the Elect?
- How could it be for all people when we claim the narrow way, and FEW that find it?
- What about the countless billions that have never even heard? Tidings of great joy for them?
Luke 2:10 NIV
And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold,
I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.
/
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
Good News (Good tidings) is relative. If my football team wins, this is good news for me and bad news for those who oppose it. Likewise, news of a savior is only good news for those who need a Savior.
Wouldn't that logic support the idea of...
Good tidings of great joy, which shall be to SOME people?
But the angel said ALL people. Was he being dishonest?
--- PARODY ---
Scene from the shepherds outside Bethlehem at Christ's birth.
Angel: I bring you good tidings of great joy which will be to SOME people.
Shepherds: Wow! What is it?
Angel: Born to you this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord.
Shepherds: That's great news, but why only for SOME people?
Angel: Not everyone will believe.
Shepherds: Why would that diminish the "good tidings of great joy"?
Angel: It's only good news for believers.
Shepherds: What is it for everyone else?
Angel: Really BAD news.
Shepherds: Do you really expect us to share this with anyone?
Angel: Cue the choir...
13 And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God and saying:
14 “Glory to God in the highest,
And on earth peace, goodwill[e] toward men!”
Shepherds: (sigh)
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CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
Yes. Nonetheless, given the context, what did the angle mean by "all people"? The alternative isn't "some people" as you suppose. The alternative is "good news to Mary and Joseph." The contrast is NOT between "some and all" but between "public and private." Thus, the reason why lowly shepherds are being told.
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
Everyone needs a savoir, but some refuse to admit it. Thus, the arrival of a savior is relevant only to those who admit they need one.
Behold
Well-Known Member
1.) John Calvinism, as you pointed out, denies the Truth, that God's Son came to offering Himself on The Cross....for us ALL.
"for THE WORLD"......And the Apostle John teaches in : JOHN 3:16
So, when a person denies that Jesus is the GOD OFFERED SAVIOR of ALL,...John 3:16... then you are denying The Cross, as a Calvinist, and that is the Devil's work.
To deny The Cross, as TULIP.. the (5 points of Calvinism)...does, = as "the 5 points of Calvinism" is designed to do... is to come against Jesus, Himself.
If you do that you are ANTI- Jesus,, Anti-Cross....and that is another way to describe : "Anti-Christ".
See, all "doctrines of devils" are designed to nullify God Gift of Salvation........and that is why they always deny The Cross, in some way., = by MIS-applying it..... or OVER-Applying it.
Not a good idea to be that one doing that........
A.) Reader... if you want everyone to be saved.. as God does.... .then according to John Calvinism, you are not doing what God wants to you BELIEVE..
See, demonic John Calvinism.. as "the 5 Points, TULIP" wants you to believe that God has NOT offered Jesus on the Cross as JOHN 3:16.... so that ALL (the WORLD)= may be forgiven...
Evil John Calvinism wants you to believe that only SOME will be allowed to be forgiven, and if that is not you, or your Mother or your Children then you or some of your family are PRE-CHOSEN to go to Hell......
= NOT ALLOWED TO TRUST IN CHRIST AND BE FORGIVEN....according to DEMONIC Calvinism, that is the "5 points"., known as T.U.L.I.P.
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Just to be clear, I am questioning the belief that the glad tidings of great joy were only for SOME people.
I believe that the glad tidings of great joy were for ALL people.
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Behold
Well-Known Member
Yes i know.
And its the CALVINIST... who will DENY.. .that the ""Glad Tidings""".....that represent the NEWS that God has given a SAVIOR into the WORLD...is = for us ALL.
JOHN 3:16
Calvinist's teach instead = that unless God "pre-chose" you to believe, before you were born,...then you are "pre-chosen" to go to hell, before you are born, because GOD wont CHOOSE you, to trust in Christ.
So in that case.... the "glad tidings" according to a CALVINIST..... have excluded you, unless God pre-chose you before you were born... to be included.
A.) "doctrine of Devils".
I would say it is more than just Calvinists that BELIEVE this.
It's the dirtiest secret in mainstream Christianity.
Anyone who believes that the Elect were predestined for salvation
also believes that everyone else was predestined for destruction.
Though they typically won't admit it.
Anyone who believes in eternal conscious torment,
or annihilation of the wicked in judgement believes this.
But they will typically blame it on the victims.
Claiming that they sent themselves to hell.
Or that they wouldn't be happy in heaven.
Prefer to burn forever. (nonsense)
But who do they claim created hell in the first place?
Or the sadistic and purposeless way it works.
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Behold
Well-Known Member
God took responsibility for the sin of the world.
So, He wrapped Himself in Human Flesh and became one of us, and endured The Cross to allow All of us to rejoin Him , as a born again CHRISTian,.
If you wont have it, then you decided that, and that choice continues this issue.,.........
= "YOU are of your FATHER.. .the DEVIL, and the LUSTS of YOUR FATHER you shall do".
So, that is the Spiritual State of an Unbeliever..
These.......John 3:36.
And if they choose to reject Christ and not be BORN AGAIN, so that God becomes their Spiritual Father, then they will join THEIR Spiritual Father, after they die.
And HELL was created for Him, and so, they will join that situation, because they belong to Him.
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