The birth of Christ and what we have always understood to be fact. Calling all historians........

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

I had always been taught, and came to believe biblically the following.............................

WE ALL know Luke's accounting of this.

2 Now in those days a decree went out from Caesar Augustus, that a census be taken of all [a]the inhabited earth. 2 [b]This was the first census taken while [c]Quirinius was governor of Syria. 3 And everyone was on his way to register for the census, each to his own city. 4 Joseph also went up from Galilee, from the city of Nazareth, to Judea, to the city of David which is called Bethlehem, because he was of the house and family of David, 5 in order to register along with Mary, who was engaged to him, and was with child. 6 While they were there, the days were completed for her to give birth. 7 And she gave birth to her firstborn son; and she wrapped Him in cloths, and laid Him in a [d]manger, because there was no room for them in the inn.

Mathew 2 tells us...

2 Now after Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, [a]magi from the east arrived in Jerusalem, saying, 2 “Where is He who has been born King of the Jews? For we saw His star in the east and have come to worship Him.”

The Holy bible is never wrong> That is a fact????????????

The quotes are clipped for size

Britannica tells us...

Herod | Biography, Facts, Reign, Temple, & Jesus | Britannica

Herod was a Roman-appointed king of Judea (37-4 BCE), who built many fortresses, aqueducts, theaters, and other public buildings but who was the center of political and family intrigues in his later years. The New Testament portrays him as a tyrant, into whose kingdom Jesus of Nazareth was born.

www.britannica.com

Herod, byname Herod the Great, Latin Herodes Magnus, (born 73 BCE—died March/April, 4 BCE, Jericho, Judaea), Roman-appointed king of Judaea (37–4 BCE), who built many fortresses, aqueducts, theatres, and other public buildings and generally raised the prosperity of his land but who was the centre of political and family intrigues in his later years. The New Testament portrays him as a tyrant, into whose kingdom Jesus of Nazareth was born.

We also know that the Magi came seeking Jesus and inquired of King Herod. Herod the Great. As is told in Mathew 2.

The jury is still out on when Herod the Great died.

Wiki tells us Herod the Great (c. 72 BCE – c. 4 BCE) that it was 4BCE (There was a partial eclipse)

This is countered by Herod’s Death, Jesus’ Birth and a Lunar Eclipse who says

Both Luke and Matthew mention Jesus’ birth as occurring during Herod’s reign (Luke 1:5; Matthew 2:1). Josephus relates Herod’s death to a lunar eclipse. This is generally regarded as a reference to a lunar eclipse in 4 B.C. Therefore it is often said that Jesus was born in 4 B.C.

But physics professor John A. Cramer, in a letter to BAR, has pointed out that there was another lunar eclipse visible in Judea—in fact, two—in 1 B.C., which would place Herod’s death—and Jesus’ birth—

Does it matter? Not really. Not for this. (Just to set a time line of sorts that Jesus had to have been born 1BC up to 4BC as the Wise Men came to see Herod about Him and he was still alive.

Luke... we have been told they went to register for a census....
Caesar Augustus, ordered it and Quirinius was governor of Syria.

Wiki posts~ Census of Quirinius - Wikipedia

The Census of Quirinius was a census of the Roman province of Judaea taken in 6 CE, upon its formation, by the governor of Roman Syria, Publius Sulpicius Quirinius.

6CE was long after the death of Herod ... We know that Herod was alive when Jesus was born according to the Wisemen.

Contrary to the Gospel of Matthew, which places Jesus's birth in the time of Herod I,[6] the Gospel of Luke (2:1–5) correlates it with the census:

In those days a decree went out from Emperor Augustus that all the world should be registered. This was the first registration and was taken while Quirinius was governor of Syria.

Scholars point out that there was no single census of the entire Roman Empire under Augustus and the Romans did not directly tax client kingdoms; further, no Roman census required that people travel from their own homes to those of their ancestors. A census of Judaea would not have affected Joseph and his family, who lived in Galilee under a different ruler; the revolt of Judas of Galilee suggests that Rome's direct taxation of Judaea was new at the time.[15] Catholic priest and biblical scholar Raymond E. Brown postulates that Judas's place of origin may have led the author of Luke to think that Galilee was subject to the census, although the region is clearly distinguished from Judaea elsewhere in the gospel.[16][17] Brown also points out that in the Acts of the Apostles, Luke the Evangelist (the traditional author of both books) dates Judas's census-incited revolt as following Theudas's rebellion of four decades later.[16]

So................................ if Luke got it wrong What else did he get wrong?

In The Census that Brought Our Lord to Bethlehem

St. Luke places the birth of Jesus within the reign of Herod the Great (1:5). But Quirinius was not governor of Syria while Herod the Great ruled. So, how could he have run a census during the reign of Herod, during which Jesus was born?

The Jewish historian Josephus wrote i

FAQ: Can You Explain the Problem with the Census in the Gospel of Luke's Story of the Birth of Jesus?

I frequently receive questions about the census mentioned in the Gospel of Luke. Specifically, people ask about the problematic nature of this census with regard to its historicity and to the fact that it doesn't align so well with the birth narrative offered in Matthew's Gospel. First, know that...

bam.sites.uiowa.edu

There are a couple of problems with the census.

First, Quirinius and Herod the Great did not rule at the same time. Herod the Great died in 4 BCE. (If that fact alone causes you some hesitation—the fact that Jesus must have been born 4 to 7 years "before Christ" (BC)— please read my 2009 article, Why Christians Should Adopt the BCE/CE Dating System, which explains why this is the case.) Anyway, Herod the Great died in 4 BCE, and yet Publius Sulpicius Quirinius wasn’t appointed as the governor of Syria until 6 CE, that is, well after Herod the Great died and after Herod’s son and successor, Archelaus, was banished as ruler of Judea.



At the very least, there's a historical mistake recorded in the Bible. Either Luke wrote down the name of the wrong governor, or there was no census. Luke used the census as a literary device to bring Mary and Joseph to Bethlehem of Judea so that Jesus of Nazareth, would be born in Bethlehem. But we'll come back to that problem in a second.

There is a second problem with the census in Luke 2. Simply put, Romans did not require subjects to return to their ancestral homes to be counted, rather, they made them return to their present homes. To explain this, I’ll refer you to what I wrote on pg. 230 of my 2016 book, The Cities That Built the Bible:

So just what Mary and Joseph traveling for? Maybe a get a way before being tied down with a kid?

 

[Windmill Charge]

.. if Luke got it wrong

Did he or have the skeptics got it wrong.
Check out who this guy is:-https://www.csad.ox.ac.uk/archive1
Sir William Ramsay archaeologist.
Quoting from wiki:-
Ramsay stated, "Further study ... showed that the book could bear the most minute scrutiny as an authority for the facts of the Aegean world, and that it was written with such judgment, skill, art and perception of truth as to be a model of historical statement",[13]: p.85  also stating that one "may press the words of Luke in a degree beyond any other historian's".[13]: p.89

Specifically, Ramsay's studies in Asia Minor led him to accept the trustworthiness of Luke's account in the Book of Acts.

Ramsey was writing this before the first world war. He knew about the problem of Quirinius and also found evidence that he was there in the middle east.

 

[Rockerduck]

Luke was able to talk to all the eyewitnesses and Apostles, and Mary too. I doubt he got anything wrong, The Gospel of Matthew is just as viable, with the times and events of the day. The Bible has always been accurate, and for 2000 years, proved right. It's the secular world that always try to discredit events.

 

[christgal33]

I don't think Luke got anything wrong. If someone is wrong, it is the skeptics. God's Word is divine and inspired. It cannot be wrong.

 

[Taken]

The birth of Christ and what we have always understood to be fact. Calling all historians........

* The “BIRTH” of The “Word” of God…
Literally occurred, the First time “God Spoke” Forth out of His mouth, His word.

* Baby steps, little by little, step by step Knowledge Has been given to manKIND.

* Gods WORD…Has has a Long Ancient and Historical and Modern History….of “Descriptions, Titles and Names”…
Revealing…more and more “knowledge”, in a Fashion of “multiple” Methods.(visions, sight, sound, subconscious, prepared body, etc).,

* Gods Word…
Spirit
Without Beginning
Giver
Taker
A Star
A Morning Star
An Angel
An Angel of the LORD
A Bodily manKind appearance.
God in Flesh
A Son
A Priest
The Lord
A Teacher
A Forgiver
A Savior
A Maker
A Messiah
JESUS
The Life
The Truth
The Christ
Wisdom
Power
Seed
The Way
A Re-Maker
A Tree of Life
A Bright Morning Star
The Father
LORD
KING
The Never Ending
Lord God Almighty
FINISHER
Giver, Taker, Destroyer, Restorer

* When WAS “Gods WORD”…
Born OF God?

In the Beginning of Gods CREATION…
When God opened His Mouth and Sent His Word Forth out of His Mouth.

Gen 1:
[1] In the beginning God created…
[3] God said…

Gen 1:
[7] And God made …

KINDS…(estates / beings)
DIVISIONS
Heaven, Earth
Angels, Plants, Animals, Humans
(All Created…..And Made)

Created…………..By Gods Word
Made Alive………By Gods Power
All ………………....For Gods Pleasure
Humans……….…For Gods Inheritance

Creation…never Ends.
Creation can, shall be “Destroyed”…
Destruction…simply means “changing” the “make-up Appearance of visible Matter, of what WAS, to Be MADE, unrecognizable as What Was…to “sight” as “Different”, and Given a Different Identifying NAME, Description.”

Dust becomes A CREATED form, called a Body, A body is called a Man, a Man is MADE Alive, A man lives, The Body Dies,
The making alive (soul) departs the Dead body…And for a Few…
The spirit of the created man…becomes “Re-MADE Forever Alive…(by receipt of Gods SEED…)for many, not so.

Inasmuch AS the INVISIBLE God without Beginning…God CREATOR…and God MAKER…and God POWER…
Can “change” the Appearance of HIS CREATIONS…so ALSO Can He, Does He…Purpose IN Himself…Take UPON Himself…
“physical” matter…as a means to “communicate”…with Humans who can….
NOT, see, hear, smell, taste, touch the Invisible Creator and Maker of all things.


When was the Word (being called JESUS), of God BORN?

Called JESUS?
The moment God Said…
Called Son?
The moment God Said…
Called the Christ?
The moment God Said…

Date, Time?
Time was created by God For manKIND.
Irrelevant for God, without beginning or ending….



Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Windmill Charge]

I don't think Luke got anything wrong. If someone is wrong, it is the skeptics. God's Word is divine and inspired. It cannot be wrong.

Gods word cannot be wrong, but human copyist I want charger, I need a human.copyist can make mistakes.
Look at the footnotes in any good Bible for alternative readings there because of either errors in copying or an addition.

 

[Pilgrimer]

The jury is still out on when Herod the Great died.

Dating the death of Herod is a popular subject among those who oppose the Christian observance of Christmas. But the case for King Herod dying in the spring of 4 BC relies on a powerful combination of physical artifacts, Roman political records, and a tightly compressed timeline of events recorded by the historian Josephus.

When layered together, these three lines of evidence create a highly cohesive framework.

The baseline of the 4 BC consensus begins with the physical coins minted by Herod the Great's three sons and successors: Herod Antipas, Philip the Tetrarch, and Archelaus. All three sons began minting bronze provincial coins that independently track their regnal years back to a shared starting point of 4 BC. Antipas ruled until his exile in 39 AD (reaching Year 43 on his coins), and Philip ruled until his death in 33/34 AD (reaching Year 37). Counting backward from these well-established Roman dates invariably lands on 4 BC.

To push Herod’s death to 1 BC, one would have to argue that all three sons deliberately backdated ("antedated") the start of their rules by three years to erase the end of their father's life—a theory mainstream historians find highly implausible for three separate rulers.

​

Second, Josephus provides absolute chronological anchors by linking Herod's rise to power directly to the named Roman Consuls in office at the time. This external political calendar validates the 4 BC timeline perfectly. Josephus states Herod was declared king by the Roman Senate during the consulship of Calvinus and Pollio (40 BC) and reigned for 37 years. He adds that Herod took physical control of Jerusalem by defeating Antigonus during the consulship of Marcus Agrippa and Caninius Gallus (37 BC) and reigned for 34 years. Using inclusive counting (where a partial calendar year is counted as a full year of a reign), both 37 years from 40 BC and 34 years from 37 BC converge precisely on 4 BC.

The final piece of the puzzle is the rapid, day-by-day sequence of events Josephus details between a specific lunar eclipse and the subsequent Passover (Antiquities 17.6.4 to 17.9.3). In 4 BC, a partial lunar eclipse occurred on March 13, and Passover began 29 days later on April 11. Here is a brief outline of events:

• Days 1–5 (Jerusalem to Callirrhoe): Immediately after the Golden Eagle incident and the March 13 eclipse, Herod's health collapses in Jerusalem. He is carried by litter straight down to the thermal springs of Callirrhoe near the Dead Sea. The physicians submerge him in a vat of warm oil, he faints, and the treatment is abandoned.
• Days 6–8 (To Jericho): The dying king is moved from the springs to his winter palace at Jericho.
• Days 9–17 (The Final Days): In Jericho, Herod imprisons Judean leaders in the hippodrome, receives final execution clearance from Rome, orders his treasonous son Antipater killed, and dies five days later.
• Days 18–21 (Preparation & Procession): Archelaus secures the throne, orders massive royal funeral preparations, and begins the state funeral procession out of Jericho toward the fortress of Herodium (about 25 miles away). The formal, slow-stepping state march lasts for the first eight stadia (one mile) before the retinue transitions to a standard travel pace.
• Days 22–29 (Mourning & Passover): The body is interred at Herodium, and Archelaus observes the mandatory seven-day mourning period (Shiva). Immediately after the mourning concludes, Archelaus gives a public feast, addresses the crowds at the Temple, and Passover begins that evening.

While alternative-chronology advocates argue that 29 days is incredibly tight for these events, the seamless alignment of the 4 BC eclipse, the Roman consular records, and the unbroken coinage of Herod's sons makes the spring of 4 BC the most historically secure date.

I am attaching a photo of the final coin minted by Herod Antipas before his exile in A.D. 39 marking year 43 of his reign. There have been enough of these coins unearthed that you can purchase one from this dealer ...Final coin Herod Antipas Regnal Year 43.

If you are interested in a further response to the other issues you raised, please let me know.

Blessings in Christ ...