JOHN 11:49 ONE NATION

[Doug]

John 11:49 And one of them, named Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all,
11:50 Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.
11:51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
11:52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.
11:53 Then from that day forth they took counsel together for to put him to death.

Caiaphas did not know it when he spoke, but he prophesied that Jesus would die for the nation of Israel.

Jesus would die for the iniquities Israel committed under the first covenant (Hebrews 9:15).

The believing remnant of Israel that received Jesus as Messiah, the Son of God, who believed on him (John 3:16) and his name (John 20:31), they were the holy nation (Exodus 19:6 1 Peter 2:9), the Israel of God (Galatians 6:16), the little flock (Luke 12:32). But, it was not for that nation only that Jesus died, Jesus died for the believing remnant, the little flock that was scattered abroad into other nations.

Jeremiah 23:3 And I will gather the remnant of my flock out of all countries whither I have driven them, and will bring them again to their folds; and they shall be fruitful and increase.

Jeremiah prophesied that Christ would bring all of the believing remnant of Israel that were in other countries back into their folds.

[Jhn 10:16 KJV] 16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, [and] one shepherd.

Jesus is saying here that there would be one fold. The other sheep not of this fold is not the Gentiles but, rather, the other sheep are the believing remnant of Israel scattered into other countries.

 

[Verily]

Mat 1:22 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS:
for he shall save his people from their sins.

He says here,

Mat 15:24 But he answered and said,
I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

But then he also says this here

John 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold:
them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

So he shall save his people from their sins, and yet John says,

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only,
but also for the sins of the whole world.

And as it says, here

Rejoice, ye Gentiles, with his people!

Now, one fold, and one Shepherd

Ephes 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

The Gentiles being fellowheirs of the same body

These being, " the other sheep" I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice

" And they shall hear my voice" and as Paul says,

Ephes 4:21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:

 

[Doug]

Rejoice, ye Gentiles, with his people!

Now, one fold, and one Shepherd

[Eze 34:13-14 KJV] 13 And I will bring them out from the people, and gather them from the countries, and will bring them to their own land, and feed them upon the mountains of Israel by the rivers, and in all the inhabited places of the country. 14 I will feed them in a good pasture, and upon the high mountains of Israel shall their fold be: there shall they lie in a good fold, and [in] a fat pasture shall they feed upon the mountains of Israel.

[Mic 2:12 KJV] 12 I will surely assemble, O Jacob, all of thee; I will surely gather the remnant of Israel; I will put them together as the sheep of Bozrah, as the flock in the midst of their fold: they shall make great noise by reason of [the multitude of] men.

The sheep fold is Israel

[Jhn 10:16 KJV] 16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, [and] one shepherd.

[Jhn 10:27 KJV] 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

Israel his sheep hear his voice

 

[Verily]

[Eze 34:13-14 KJV] 13 And I will bring them out from the people, and gather them from the countries, and will bring them to their own land, and feed them upon the mountains of Israel by the rivers, and in all the inhabited places of the country. 14 I will feed them in a good pasture, and upon the high mountains of Israel shall their fold be: there shall they lie in a good fold, and [in] a fat pasture shall they feed upon the mountains of Israel.

[Mic 2:12 KJV] 12 I will surely assemble, O Jacob, all of thee; I will surely gather the remnant of Israel; I will put them together as the sheep of Bozrah, as the flock in the midst of their fold: they shall make great noise by reason of [the multitude of] men.

The sheep fold is Israel

[Jhn 10:16 KJV] 16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, [and] one shepherd.

[Jhn 10:27 KJV] 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

Israel his sheep hear his voice

Yes, and John is of "his people" correct? And he is the one who states

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only,
but also for the sins of the whole world.

And so we have

Rejoice, ye Gentiles, with his people!

Now, one fold, and one Shepherd

Ephes 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

 

[Doug]

Yes, and John is of "his people" correct? And he is the one who states

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only,
but also for the sins of the whole world.

[Isa 49:6 KJV] 6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.

Yes but what John stated was based on prophecy given to Israel about the salvation brought by Christ and cant be applied to the scattered remnant

 

[Verily]

[Isa 49:6 KJV] 6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.

Yes but what John stated was based on prophecy given to Israel about the salvation brought by Christ and cant be applied to the scattered remnant

So I am not sure what you are implying, that he is calling only those of the Jews scattered and not the Gentiles?

 

[Verily]

[Isa 49:6 KJV] 6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.

Yes but what John stated was based on prophecy given to Israel about the salvation brought by Christ and cant be applied to the scattered remnant

I missed that part, so not to the scattered Israelites you mean?

 

[Doug]

So I am not sure what you are implying, that he is calling only those of the Jews scattered and not the Gentiles?

Gentiles were never scattered only God's people
Jesus was going to bring in all the dispersed Jews and make one nation of the split nation.....the two sticks passages (Ezekiel 37:20-23)

Gentiles could always be saved by becoming proselytes and could believe Peter and the twelve.....they are not in view as being other sheep in John 10:16

Gentiles will also come to God in the millennial reign in the kingdom

 

[Doug]

I missed that part, so not to the scattered Israelites you mean?

Yes Jesus was sent to restore Israel but he would also be the salvation of the Gentiles
But John 10:16 about the other sheep is about scattered remnant of Israel

Thats ok most think the other sheep are Gentiles as well as me in the past

 

[Verily]

Yes Jesus was sent to restore Israel but he would also be the salvation of the Gentiles
But John 10:16 about the other sheep is about scattered remnant of Israel

Thats ok most think the other sheep are Gentiles as well as me in the past

You have given me something to consider,

What about this?

Isaiah 49:22 Thus says the Lord GOD: “Behold, I will lift My hand in an oath to the nations, And set up My standard for the peoples; They shall bring your sons in their arms,
And your daughters shall be carried on their shoulders;

 

[Verily]

The hearing part is split between the smallest of the remnant and between the Gentiles though

To the Jews here Paul says,

Acts 28:26 Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive:

From here he says

Acts 28:28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.

Then inclusive of Jews and Gentiles here

Rom 9:24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

The next verse is him including the Gentiles in this

Rom 9:25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.

Romans 15:21 But as it is written, To whom he was not spoken of, they shall see: and they that have not heard shall understand.

As he said earlier,

Romans 10:21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.

At the same time though Peter says,

1 Peter 2:10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

But he does add,

1 Peter 2:12 Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.

Likewise speaking the same here

1 Peter 4:3-4 For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries: Wherein they think it strange that ye run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of you.

In respects to Jacob as you first posted on, Jacob is mentioned here

Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Romans 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Romans 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Romans 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

 

[Doug]

You have given me something to consider,

What about this?

Isaiah 49:22 Thus says the Lord GOD: “Behold, I will lift My hand in an oath to the nations, And set up My standard for the peoples; They shall bring your sons in their arms,
And your daughters shall be carried on their shoulders;

Once again you are taking passages (and rightfully so) and acknowledging that God did not deal exclusively with the salvation of Israel but extended salvation to Gentiles and the end of the earth....we already looked at Isiah 49:6 where Christ would be light to the Gentiles.

But going back to the start of our beneficial discussion we cant say that pertains to Gentiles as being the other sheep brought into the fold. He was only talking about the believing remnant of Israel.

 

[Verily]

Once again you are taking passages (and rightfully so) and acknowledging that God did not deal exclusively with the salvation of Israel but extended salvation to Gentiles and the end of the earth....we already looked at Isiah 49:6 where Christ would be light to the Gentiles.

But going back to the start of our beneficial discussion we cant say that pertains to Gentiles as being the other sheep brought into the fold. He was only talking about the believing remnant of Israel.

I'm not yet convinced yet, I will look at this a bit more, if I can add, or have further question according to the scriptures I come across I will definately post them here so we can look at them.

 

[Doug]

The hearing part is split between the smallest of the remnant and between the Gentiles though

To the Jews here Paul says,

Acts 28:26 Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive:

From here he says

Acts 28:28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.

Then inclusive of Jews and Gentiles here

Rom 9:24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

The next verse is him including the Gentiles in this

Rom 9:25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.

Romans 15:21 But as it is written, To whom he was not spoken of, they shall see: and they that have not heard shall understand.

As he said earlier,

Romans 10:21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.

At the same time though Peter says,

1 Peter 2:10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

But he does add,

1 Peter 2:12 Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.

Likewise speaking the same here

1 Peter 4:3-4 For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries: Wherein they think it strange that ye run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of you.

In respects to Jacob as you first posted on, Jacob is mentioned here

Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Romans 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Romans 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Romans 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

Bottom line...salvation was also sent to the Gentiles all along,,,,that does not mean that salvation was included or spoken of as being the other sheep in John 10:16

 

[Doug]

I'm not yet convinced yet, I will look at this a bit more, if I can add, or have further question according to the scriptures I come across I will definately post them here so we can look at them.

Ok look forward to it....anything you want to discuss...just dont think I know everything
The most important thing........did I ever ask you what the gospel of our salvation is?
Can you please give me the gospel?

 

[Verily]

Ok look forward to it....anything you want to discuss...just dont think I know everything
The most important thing........did I ever ask you what the gospel of our salvation is?
Can you please give me the gospel?

You want me to copy paste the gospel to you? Are you playing games with me now?

 

[Verily]

Bottom line...salvation was also sent to the Gentiles all along,,,,that does not mean that salvation was included or spoken of as being the other sheep in John 10:16

Like I said, I will look at this

 

[IronMaiden]

John 11:49 And one of them, named Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all,
11:50 Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.
11:51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
11:52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.
11:53 Then from that day forth they took counsel together for to put him to death.

Caiaphas did not know it when he spoke, but he prophesied that Jesus would die for the nation of Israel.

Jesus would die for the iniquities Israel committed under the first covenant (Hebrews 9:15).

The believing remnant of Israel that received Jesus as Messiah, the Son of God, who believed on him (John 3:16) and his name (John 20:31), they were the holy nation (Exodus 19:6 1 Peter 2:9), the Israel of God (Galatians 6:16), the little flock (Luke 12:32). But, it was not for that nation only that Jesus died, Jesus died for the believing remnant, the little flock that was scattered abroad into other nations.

Jeremiah 23:3 And I will gather the remnant of my flock out of all countries whither I have driven them, and will bring them again to their folds; and they shall be fruitful and increase.

Jeremiah prophesied that Christ would bring all of the believing remnant of Israel that were in other countries back into their folds.

[Jhn 10:16 KJV] 16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, [and] one shepherd.

Jesus is saying here that there would be one fold. The other sheep not of this fold is not the Gentiles but, rather, the other sheep are the believing remnant of Israel scattered into other countries.

John 11:49-53 (NKJV) 49 And one of them, Caiaphas, being high priest that year, said to them, “You know nothing at all, 50 “nor do you consider that it is expedient for us that one man should die for the people, and not that the whole nation should perish.” 51 Now this he did not say on his own [authority;] but being high priest that year he prophesied that Jesus would die for the nation, 52 and not for that nation only, but also that He would gather together in one the children of God who were scattered abroad. 53 Then, from that day on, they plotted to put Him to death.

Caiaphus was an evil guy. He knew that the other ten tribes had been scattered all over the world and he feared that Jesus would bring all of them back together under one nation. This of course will happen at the 7th trump when Jesus returns at His second coming and the millennium begins. The religious leaders including Caiaphus wanted to kill Jesus because He had brought a man back to life.

​

 

[Doug]

You want me to copy paste the gospel to you? Are you playing games with me now?

Absolutely not .....no games...we can have all these discussions but whats the most important thing...to believe the gospel of our salvation
I believe Christ died for our sins and took the penalty for it
He rose again for our justification unto eternal life
We have his imputed righteousness
I just dont remember if you ever told me your belief

 

[Doug]

John 11:49-53 (NKJV) 49 And one of them, Caiaphas, being high priest that year, said to them, “You know nothing at all, 50 “nor do you consider that it is expedient for us that one man should die for the people, and not that the whole nation should perish.” 51 Now this he did not say on his own [authority;] but being high priest that year he prophesied that Jesus would die for the nation, 52 and not for that nation only, but also that He would gather together in one the children of God who were scattered abroad. 53 Then, from that day on, they plotted to put Him to death.

Caiaphus was an evil guy. He knew that the other ten tribes had been scattered all over the world and he feared that Jesus would bring all of them back together under one nation. This of course will happen at the 7th trump when Jesus returns at His second coming and the millennium begins. The religious leaders including Caiaphus wanted to kill Jesus because He had brought a man back to life.

​

Thanks for the contribution
Any questions or any related topics from my post