Is Total Victory over Sin Possible?

[Brakelite]

attempted external obedience

Is there no room for obedience based solely on God's authority? Not for the benefits thereof, like salvation, but obedience simply because God said so?

 

[Earburner]

Others claim "who could remember all the sins one does to be able to confess all of them?".... which is odd because they have SO many sins they can't remember them all??? Anybody seeing a problem with that coming from a Christian???

Maybe all of such have a problem with being obedient against lusting after sex in their mind,....but you don't??
In the seconds that you decided to put the thoughts away from you, you already committed the act of adultery in your heart.
Mat. 5
[27] Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
[28] But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart

 

[quietthinker]

Is Total Victory over Sin Possible?​

It depends on how sin is defined.

1. Define it as a lack of certain outward observance and you have a certain paradigm
2. Define it as the primary motivation of the natural man and you have another
3. Define it as the violation of a regenerated heart and still, you have another.
4. Define sin as a lack of trust in one who is trust worthy and there is another

Jesus spoke of the thought process and defined sin that way.

How is your thought process at any given hour Hobie? Do you measure up to your own standards?

 

[mailmandan]

Is there no room for obedience based solely on God's authority? Not for the benefits thereof, like salvation, but obedience simply because God said so?

Absolutely.

 

[Hobie]

Those who are being led by the Holy Spirit would confess their sins in contrast with saying they have no sin (present tense -1 John 1:8) or have not sinned (past tense - 1 John 1:10).

I did not say big, long list of sins as if those who are born of God practice sin (lifestyle or bent of life) instead of practicing righteousness. (1 John 3:9,10) Throughout one's entire lifetime it would still be difficult to write an exhaustive list of every sin you ever committed, which includes missing the mark by what we do and also what we fail to do.

In regard to Ephesians 4:22-24, when we become born again, we are new creations in Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17) positionally speaking. We are sanctified/set apart/made holy in standing before God positionally in Christ. 1 Corinthians 6:11 - Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God. 1 Corinthians 1:2 - To the church of God, which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus. That is a one-time occurrence.

Yet we also see ongoing or progressive sanctification in which the reality of that holiness becomes more and more evident in our actions, words, thoughts, attitudes, and motives. 1 Thessalonians 4:3-4, - For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you should abstain from sexual immorality; that each of you should know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor.

So, becoming washed, sanctified and justified in Christ is a one-time occurrence, yet abstaining from sexual immorality is not a one-time occurrence. The believer possesses a positional, judicial standing of righteousness in Christ and, second, an ongoing process of growth in practical, progressive holiness which becomes increasingly evident in our actions, words, thoughts, attitudes, and motives.

Having put off the old man and putting on the new man which is created in righteousness and true holiness in practice involves a process of spiritual growth. This renewal is not a one-time event but a continuous process of growth and development. It is about cultivating a mindset of spiritual growth. Believers start out as babes in Christ, and it takes time to grow to maturity, but we still will not reach absolute perfection until we receive our glorified bodies.

Once again, 1 John 1:9 is in contrast to If we say that we have no sin, (present tense) we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us (1 John 1:8) and - If we say that we have not sinned, (past tense) we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. (1 John 1:10)

Slander is a sin. (Exodus 20:16; Proverbs 10:18; 1 Peter 2:1,2) Have you confessed that sin?

That's not how I roll. Slander is evil.

You just judged and condemned all Christians in the OSAS camp. The Bible has a lot to say about judging others and slander.

I don't hate that quote from the Lord and in Matthew 7:23, Jesus clearly stated, "I never knew you" and not I once knew you but don't know you anymore. This means they were never saved and these many people in Matthew 7:22 trusted in their works for salvation instead of in Jesus Christ alone. Their hearts were not right with God, so their "attempted external obedience" (apart from the righteousness of God which is by faith and the blood of Christ - Romans 3:24-28; Philippians 3:9) was still stained with sin. Hence, workers of iniquity/practice lawlessness. They failed to do the will of the Father unto salvation by believing in Jesus Christ for salvation. (Matthew 7:21; John 6:40)

Lets just look at one, 'adultery'. If you as a Christian continue in it, do you think God will say well this Christian has so many constant falling into this fornication, its ok if he doesn't repent of it and turn from it and allow Christ to cleanse him of this sin. Guess what Christ will say to that person when He comes....'away from me those who practice sin and iniquity' and perdition awaits them as they could not 'remember' this sin. I think everyone is clear on their 'sin' and needs not remember every 'instance', just repent and ask for forgiveness for what we know is the 'iniquity' that holds us in bondage to Satan...

 

[mailmandan]

Lets just look at one, 'adultery'. If you as a Christian continue in it, do you think God will say well this Christian has so many constant falling into this fornication, its ok if he doesn't repent of it and turn from it and allow Christ to cleanse him of this sin. Guess what Christ will say to that person when He comes....'away from me those who practice sin and iniquity' and perdition awaits them as they could not 'remember' this sin. I think everyone is clear on their 'sin' and needs not remember every 'instance', just repent and ask for forgiveness for what we know is the 'iniquity' that holds us in bondage to Satan...

The key word here is "continue" in it. Have there been Christians who have committed adultery? Sure there are. I personally know a Christian who had an affair once, deeply regretted it, repented and never did it again.

Now although those who are born of God are capable of such sins, those who are born of God do not practice sin/one's lifestyle or bent of life. (1 John 1:3:9,10) That would be descriptive of the unrighteous, children of the devil. (1 Corinthians 6:9,10; 1 John 3:8)

 

[Earburner]

Lets just look at one, 'adultery'. If you as a Christian continue in it, do you think God will say well this Christian has so many constant falling into this fornication, its ok if he doesn't repent of it and turn from it and allow Christ to cleanse him of this sin. Guess what Christ will say to that person when He comes....'away from me those who practice sin and iniquity' and perdition awaits them as they could not 'remember' this sin. I think everyone is clear on their 'sin' and needs not remember every 'instance', just repent and ask for forgiveness for what we know is the 'iniquity' that holds us in bondage to Satan...

Lol....there have been billions of professing christians who have lived most of their lives in CONTINUAL ADULTERY, without confessing their sinfulness of living in their adulterous married situation EVERY DAY.
They are called divorcees-remarried!!
Mat. 5
[32] But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away [divorce] his wife, saving [other than] for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

So then, what do you want to do with that??

 

[Earburner]

I honestly believe that the Church Age (since Pentecost) is now very close to the end time of its existence. Being that period of time when there shall be a severe falling away from faith in Christ, by which God shall lock everyone into the classification of who they are, in relationship to Himself, just before He sends Jesus to redeem all of His Saints (holy ones).

2 Thes. 2
[3] Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Rev. 22
[11] He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

In case you didn't notice, the only ones who will be redeemed, shall be those who ARE holy still.
Rom. 8:8-9; Rev. 3:20.

 

[Hobie]

Is there no room for obedience based solely on God's authority? Not for the benefits thereof, like salvation, but obedience simply because God said so?

Well, if you truly love and follow God, but many are 'Christians' in name only and do not 'walk the walk' only give 'lip service'.

 

[Hobie]

Lol....there have been billions of professing christians who have lived most of their lives in CONTINUAL ADULTERY, without confessing their sinfulness of living in their adulterous married situation EVERY DAY.
They are called divorcees-remarried!!
Mat. 5
[32] But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away [divorce] his wife, saving [other than] for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

So then, what do you want to do with that??

Yes, and God will judge.

 

[Hobie]

The key word here is "continue" in it. Have there been Christians who have committed adultery? Sure there are. I personally know a Christian who had an affair once, deeply regretted it, repented and never did it again.

Now although those who are born of God are capable of such sins, those who are born of God do not practice sin/one's lifestyle or bent of life. (1 John 1:3:9,10) That would be descriptive of the unrighteous, children of the devil. (1 Corinthians 6:9,10; 1 John 3:8)

Ok, I will only say what I know, as some of the young ladies have told us that they are "continually" being solicited or worse, even in the sanctuary of the churches. Would you say these people have committed 'one time adultery', of course not. They are under the bondage of sin and we have seen it with many preachers, Jim Baker, JimmySwaggart, Ravi Zacharius, etc....Need I go on...

 

[Earburner]

Yes, and God will judge.

For ALL who do repent towards God, through faith in the sacrificial work of Christ, THEY have already been judged and were found to be under NO condemnation whatsoever!!
John 3:18

 

[quietthinker]

A relationship based on Law is bound to have a Judge and thus fear.
A relationship based on forgiveness is based on affection and thus trust.

 

[Brakelite]

Lol....there have been billions of professing christians who have lived most of their lives in CONTINUAL ADULTERY, without confessing their sinfulness of living in their adulterous married situation EVERY DAY.
They are called divorcees-remarried!!
Mat. 5
[32] But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away [divorce] his wife, saving [other than] for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

So then, what do you want to do with that??

The only thing I could recommend for you is not to use that as an example for your own life. The question you need to ask and find an answer for is what is God going to do with it???

 

[Brakelite]

For ALL who do repent towards God, through faith in the sacrificial work of Christ, THEY have already been judged and were found to be under NO condemnation whatsoever!!
John 3:18

Now hold on a second, that's not what you were talking about. You said,
QUOTE...
there have been billions of professing christians who have lived most of their lives in CONTINUAL ADULTERY, without confessing their sinfulness of living in their adulterous married situation EVERY DAY.

You can't have it both ways.

 

[Earburner]

Now hold on a second, that's not what you were talking about. You said,
QUOTE...
there have been billions of professing christians who have lived most of their lives in CONTINUAL ADULTERY, without confessing their sinfulness of living in their adulterous married situation EVERY DAY.

You can't have it both ways.

Correct. Unfortunately, you have yet to discern or understand the difference of being sin-LESS and that of being sin-FREE.

There is only One person in all the world who was literally both sinless and sinfree in their mortal flesh, and that is the Lord Jesus Christ.
John 8
[23] And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
[24] I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in [ALL] your sins.

Heb. 10
[4] For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. [made to be sin-LESS]
[5] Wherefore when he [Jesus] cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a [mortal] body hast thou prepared me:

[6] In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
[7] Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
[8] Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
[9] Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first [Old Covenant], that he may establish the second [New Covenant].
[10] By the which will [through faith]
we ARE sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ ONCE FOR ALL.

Do you understand what changed in verses 9 and 10??

 

[Hobie]

For ALL who do repent towards God, through faith in the sacrificial work of Christ, THEY have already been judged and were found to be under NO condemnation whatsoever!!
John 3:18

Who truly repent, not just give 'lip service'...
Matthew 23:28
Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

Luke 13:27
But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.

 

[Earburner]

Who truly repent, not just give 'lip service'...
Matthew 23:28
Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

Luke 13:27
But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.

Who truly repent? Well of course, if they understand that in the Greek there are two forms of repentance, but only one form of repentance is acceptable to God the Father, for His free Gift of salvation.
1. Repentance-Metanoia:
"repentance FROM sin, by having a CHANGE of mind".
2. Repentance-"Metanoeo":
"repentance TOWARDS God, by having ANOTHER mind".

Which form of repentance is God the Father seeking for in us?
Clue: John 14:16.

BTW, in Heb. 10:9-10, what was "taken away" and what was "established" in those two verses (see post #76).

 

[Brakelite]

Bottom line is that Jesus is returning for a bride that is spotless, without blemish. He is waiting for us to make ourselves ready for the Bridegroom. We are not waiting for Him. He will come when we are ready. Forsake all sin and unrighteousness, love God with all our hearts and everyone else as we love ourselves. Theology and knowledge and Bible understanding aside... Are we ready? Are you ready? That's the biggest question we as Christians need to face. And answer honestly.

 

[quietthinker]

Bottom line is that Jesus is returning for a bride that is spotless, without blemish. He is waiting for us to make ourselves ready for the Bridegroom. We are not waiting for Him. He will come when we are ready. Forsake all sin and unrighteousness, love God with all our hearts and everyone else as we love ourselves. Theology and knowledge and Bible understanding aside... Are we ready? Are you ready? That's the biggest question we as Christians need to face. And answer honestly.

When I observe my thoughts and see my behaviour I can not approve of them. In fact the more I learn of my Saviour the more deficits I see.

Will that ever change? I hope so, at the resurrection when this mortal shall put on immortality and this corruptible, incorruption.
This side of that I've only ever seen myself as a rusted out T Model, nevertheless, I know that is not what is seen in the eyes of the master renovator. He sees me in showroom condition.

My hope is not in my flesh but in him who promised, 'I make all things new'. Does that make me ready? I trust it.