The Jerusalem which is above is the heavenly city of promise which God has prepared for His saints

[Marty fox]

People quote many verses to support their premill theology too.
On ignore.

So I guess its true you are very sensitive you shouldn't be if you are on a debate site.

 

[Scott Downey]

So I guess its true you are very sensitive you shouldn't be if you are on a debate site.

Ok, In your opinion, however over many years of discussions about Christians subjects, I have found it is a waste of time to keep discussions going when someone is entirely opposed to your POV, as nothing ever changes with them or with me. I eventually just stop the conversation as it is fruitless to continue with it. Simply walk away from those who always are contrary, and there will be peace. We are not taught in scripture to keep on contending over some scriptural minutia endlessly. Why do you suppose there are so many different church denominations and also on this forum is constant contentions about one thing or another, people do not know when to walk away and say nothing more. After a while, you can tell when things are not as they seem in a discussion, like your comment about me not being on here at all, sort of like casting character aspersions about someone you do not agree with, which you just did, and I have 8,565 posts on here.
Other forums I have many more.

All to often , that is what happens on this and other Christian forums, the best way to stop that is to cut it off cold.

Definition of CAST ASPERSIONS

to say harsh critical things about someone or someone's character… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Do you believe in a literal New Jerusalem in the NHNE as seen below, or do you believe the throne of God/Jesus and the river and tree of life, the gates and city mentioned is symbolic?

Revelation 21:1-3 & 21-26KJV
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

21 And the twelve gates were twelve pearls: every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass.
22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.

Revelation 22:1-3KJV
1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:

Did you read my whole post? I said "We will all be together in the new heavens and new earth at that point where we will enjoy eternity together in a place where "there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain" (Rev 21:4).". So, I see the new heavens and new earth as being a place we will inherit in the future where only righteousness will dwell (2 Peter 3:13) and where "there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain".

What that will be like exactly is not meant for us to know yet, and we probably aren't currently able to even comprehend it, which is why it is only described symbolically. But, it will be revealed when Jesus comes.

1 Corinthians 2:9 However, as it is written: "What no eye has seen, what no ear has heard, and what no human mind has conceived” the things God has prepared for those who love him.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

So I guess its true you are very sensitive you shouldn't be if you are on a debate site.

He ignored me, too, for having the gall to disagree with him. As if he thinks this is not a place to debate, but a place for everyone to agree with him.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Ok, In your opinion, however over many years of discussions about Christians subjects, I have found it is a waste of time to keep discussions going when someone is entirely opposed to your POV, as nothing ever changes with them or with me. I eventually just stop the conversation as it is fruitless to continue with it. Simply walk away from those who always are contrary, and there will be peace. We are not taught in scripture to keep on contending over some scriptural minutia endlessly. Why do you suppose there are so many different church denominations and also on this forum is constant contentions about one thing or another, people do not know when to walk away and say nothing more. After a while, you can tell when things are not as they seem in a discussion, like your comment about me not being on here at all, sort of like casting character aspersions about someone you do not agree with, which you just did.

You don't have to put someone on ignore just because you disagree with them about one particular thing.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Why? because your being ridiculous.

The Bridegroom returns for the Bride, which is His church, made up of individual believers, not a city. And the city is where God and men dwell together.

Part of His bride is in heaven now and part is on earth. Does Jesus have more than one bride?

Revelation 21:2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband....9 One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and said to me, “Come, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb.” 10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the Holy City, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God.

 

[Scott Downey]

You don't have to put someone on ignore just because you disagree with them about one particular thing.

I saw you responded about me, so I responded, did you even read my post? I had the gall! What a load that is.
I don't care if you get angry, sad, or are indifferent, but why not stop behaving like mere men of the flesh. But see the attitude is showing someone not interested in the ways of peace..why would I want to continue with hearing that. Like someone join into a group, with that other guy, to exclude someone who they are in disagreement with and put them down, lower than you with is what you just did. And I am not surprised as you do this to others on this forum.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I saw you responded about me, so I responded, did you even read my post? I had the gall! What a load that is.

So, I'm not on ignore anymore, apparently? It's a load for you to put me on ignore just because I was disagreeing with you about one relatively minor thing, which was where Jesus and the thief on the cross went the day He died. Either way, we agree He and the souls/spirits of His people were in paradise after His resurrection.

I don't care if you get angry, sad, or are indifferent, but why not stop behaving like mere men of the flesh.

That's what you do by childishly putting us on ignore just for disagreeing with you about one particular thing.

But see the attitude is showing someone not interested in the ways of peace..why would I want to continue with hearing that. Like someone join into a group, with that other guy, to exclude someone who they are in disagreement with and put them down, lower than you with is what you just did. And I am not surprised as you do this to others on this forum.

You seem to think this is not a place for debate. You put people on ignore for no other reason than that they were disagreeing with you about something. As for insults and such I have made several posts recently indicating that I intend to cut down on that and try to just ignore when insults are aimed at me instead of responding in kind.

 

[Marty fox]

Ok, In your opinion, however over many years of discussions about Christians subjects, I have found it is a waste of time to keep discussions going when someone is entirely opposed to your POV, as nothing ever changes with them or with me. I eventually just stop the conversation as it is fruitless to continue with it. Simply walk away from those who always are contrary, and there will be peace. We are not taught in scripture to keep on contending over some scriptural minutia endlessly. Why do you suppose there are so many different church denominations and also on this forum is constant contentions about one thing or another, people do not know when to walk away and say nothing more. After a while, you can tell when things are not as they seem in a discussion, like your comment about me not being on here at all, sort of like casting character aspersions about someone you do not agree with, which you just did, and I have 8,565 posts on here.
Other forums I have many more.

All to often , that is what happens on this and other Christian forums, the best way to stop that is to cut it off cold.

Definition of CAST ASPERSIONS

to say harsh critical things about someone or someone's character… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

It is no problem at all to say that you don't want to continue the debate on this subject because you don't think that either of us will change our view. That is totally acceptable and I would respect that I would say sure no problem but that is not what you did you said that you put me on ignore which is not fair.

So my comment was justified in this situation because you were to sentive and put me on ignore for having a different view than you. We can't ignore people who aren't saved can we?

 

[Scott Downey]

So, I'm not on ignore anymore, apparently? It's a load for you to put me on ignore just because I was disagreeing with you about one relatively minor thing, which was where Jesus and the thief on the cross went the day He died. Either way, we agree He and the souls/spirits of His people were in paradise after His resurrection.


That's what you do by childishly putting us on ignore just for disagreeing with you about one particular thing.


You seem to think this is not a place for debate. You put people on ignore for no other reason than that they were disagreeing with you about something. As for insults and such I have made several posts indicating that I intend to cut down on that and try to just ignore when insults are aimed at me instead of responding in kind.

You just made my case, guilty as charged. You are still on ignore, man are you dead on the inside or what? This guy has no feeling, empathy etc... just blasts his way through life running over anyone who gets in his way. Always trying to get in the last word. Well back to the ignore status, which is the right thing to do. This communication is a complete waste of the forum's time.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You just made my case, guilty as charged.

How so?

You are still on ignore, man are you dead on the inside or what?

You need to repent of acting as if you know me. You are not God.

This guy has no feeling, empathy etc...

Absolutely false. That is a lie from the pit of hell.

just blasts his way through life running over anyone who gets in his way. Always trying to get in the last word. Well back to the ignore status.

Stop being a hypocrite. You're offended that I said putting us on ignore was childish after you called us "mere men of the flesh"? You need to humble yourself and stop acting hypocritically.

 

[Rockerduck]

There will be a new Heaven and a new earth. That's God's plan. Rev. 21:1 The human mind is too finite to understand an infinite God. In the spirit, I saw a gold temple in Heaven. Like the Jewish temple that was on earth, except solid gold and huge. The chosen of Christ's will be there in the new heaven as Priests and Judges. 1 Corinthians 6:3 and 1 Peter 2:9. There is no symbolism. The old heaven and earth will be wiped out; and Jesus will rule with a rod of Iron. Rev. 19:15

 

[grafted branch]

The heavenly Jerusalem is not a literal city with a literal location. It's a symbolic representation of the new covenant church.

Galatians 4:22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. 23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. 24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. 25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. 26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

Rev 21:9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife. 10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

The new Jerusalem descending out of heaven from God symbolically represents that the bride/church will no longer be separated with some of us on earth and some in heaven and that there will no longer be any separation of God's location from the location of His people. We will all be together in the new heavens and new earth at that point where we will enjoy eternity together in a place where "there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain" (Rev 21:4).

Ok, some time ago someone told me that New Jerusalem was symbolic and it descended just after 70AD for the Jews who just had their old covenant vanish. Are you sure you want to go with a symbolic interpretation? You’d be in agreement with some full preterist on that.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Ok, some time ago someone told me that New Jerusalem was symbolic and it descended just after 70AD for the Jews who just had their old covenant vanish. Are you sure you want to go with a symbolic interpretation? You’d be in agreement with some full preterist on that.

Did you actually read all of my post? If you did, you would not be saying this because I see things as happening in the future that full preterists say has already happened, such as Rev 21. My view is very far from full preterism. You misinterpret almost everything I say, so it might be best for you to not try to comment on what I say anymore. You misrepresent what I say constantly and I'm losing patience with that. I'm sure you would not like it if I constantly misrepresented your view, either.

 

[Truth7t7]

Did you read my whole post? I said "We will all be together in the new heavens and new earth at that point where we will enjoy eternity together in a place where "there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain" (Rev 21:4).". So, I see the new heavens and new earth as being a place we will inherit in the future where only righteousness will dwell (2 Peter 3:13) and where "there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain".

What that will be like exactly is not meant for us to know yet, and we probably aren't currently able to even comprehend it, which is why it is only described symbolically. But, it will be revealed when Jesus comes.

1 Corinthians 2:9 However, as it is written: "What no eye has seen, what no ear has heard, and what no human mind has conceived” the things God has prepared for those who love him.

I believe it will be somewhat like scripture explains it to be, I agree its beyond human comprehension

The Bible gives many hints of animals present, Isaiah 65 the wolf and lamb laying together, houses built, vineyards planted

Ezekiel 47 gives details of fish in the river of life, fishermen, fishing nets, the fruit on the tree of life is for eating

I agree we will know when the day comes, can't wait!

Thanks for the response, Jesus Is The Lord!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I believe it will be somewhat like scripture explains it to be, I agree its beyond human comprehension

The Bible gives many hints of animals present, Isaiah 65 the wolf and lamb laying together, houses built, vineyards planted

Ezekiel 47 gives details of fish in the river of life, fishermen, fishing nets, the fruit on the tree of life is for eating

I agree we will know when the day comes, can't wait!

Thanks for the response, Jesus Is The Lord!

We can speculate, but I am glad that we can't imagine it with our limited minds. That would be disappointing. It will be better than anything we can imagine, in my opinion. We will not be disappointed. I'm sure you would agree with that.

 

[grafted branch]

Did you actually read all of my post? If you did, you would not be saying this because I see things as happening in the future that full preterists say has already happened, such as Rev 21. My view is very far from full preterism. You misinterpret almost everything I say, so it might be best for you to not try to comment on what I say anymore. You misrepresent what I say constantly and I'm losing patience with that. I'm sure you would not like it if I constantly misrepresented your view, either.

I’m not calling you a full preterist. I know you are Amil but you are arguing for an interpretation that I have only heard a full preterist argue for. I honestly don’t know exactly what any other full preterist would say but the one person I had a conversation with would’ve agreed with the approach you’re taking. Just saying.

 

[Truth7t7]

Why? because your being ridiculous.

The Bridegroom returns for the Bride, which is His church, made up of individual believers, not a city. And the city is where God and men dwell together.

I Agree 100% Two Thumbs Up

Jesus returns for his church, and New Jerusalem is God's eternal tabernacle where he dwells with the righteous saved for eternity, those written in the Lambs book of life

The river of life flowing from the throne and the tree of life bearing eternal fruit to eat will be a eternal reality, New Jerusalem will have 12 gates as written, 3 on each side, bearing the names of the 12 tribes of Israel, that written isn't symbolic, it will be eternal literal

Scripture shows in Isaiah 65 that the wolf and lamb lay together, houses are built, vineyards planted, Ezekiel 47 shows fish in the river of life, fishermen, fishing nets

I dont have the exact picture in my mind, but eternity in the NHNE isn't going to be the world's image of Angel's with long hair flying around playing harps for eternity

I love to fish, and the thought of fishing for the big one for eternity does me fine!

It's going to be beyond the human imagination, can't wait!

Jesus Is The Lord!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I’m not calling you a full preterist. I know you are Amil but you are arguing for an interpretation that I have only heard a full preterist argue for.

Not overall, I'm not. I say Rev 21 happens in the future, but a full preterist does not.

I honestly don’t know exactly what any other full preterist would say but the one person I had a conversation with would’ve agreed with the approach you’re taking. Just saying.

Not completely. Not even close to what I believe, overall. Read everything I say, not just a few words here and there.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I Agree 100% Two Thumbs Up

Jesus returns for his church, and New Jerusalem is God's eternal tabernacle where he dwells with the righteous saved for eternity, those written in the Lambs book of life

The river of life flowing from the throne and the tree of life bearing eternal fruit to eat will be a eternal reality, New Jerusalem will have 12 gates as written, 3 on each side, bearing the names of the 12 tribes of Israel, that written isn't symbolic, it will be eternal literal

Scripture shows in Isaiah 65 that the wolf and lamb lay together, houses are built, vineyards planted, Ezekiel 47 shows fish in the river of life, fishermen, fishing nets

I dont have the exact picture in my mind, but eternity in the NHNE isn't going to be the world's image of Angel's with long hair flying around playing harps for eternity

I love to fish, and the thought of fishing for the big one for eternity does me fine!

It's going to be beyond the human imagination, can't wait!

Jesus Is The Lord!

Not looking to argue because we already agreed that we can't fully imagine it. But, in my view, fishing will seem not very interesting to you compared to what God has in store for us. Just my opinion. Set your expectations higher is all I'm saying. But, I'm with you that I can't wait. Looking forward to that is often what keeps me going each day through the trials and tribulations of life.