A proof that the 1000 year reign of Christ with His people is in the heavenly throne room, not the earth

[Spiritual Israelite]

1 Thess. 5: 2. Actually, the Day of the Lord (period of time) starts with the northern army coming down to Israel. (Joel 2: 1& 2)

2 Thess. 1: 7. That is the specific Day of the Lord. (we agree)

Both 1 Thess 5:2 and 2 Thess 1:7 refer to the same specific day of the Lord. In 1 Thess 5:2 Paul makes it clear that "sudden destruction" accompanies the unexpected arrival of the day of the Lord. In no way, shape or form did Paul teach that the day of the Lord is a "period of time". A period of time is not sudden. You are denying clear scripture and showing that you do not believe that Paul knew what he was talking about. As if you know the OT scriptures better than he did.

sudden (adjective): occurring or done quickly and unexpectedly or without warning.

 

[Marilyn C]

Marilyn why didn't you post verse 26?

Because it states "The Last Enemy Destroyed Is Death" this takes place at the resurrection and you see it before your eyes in denial

Jesus has put the last enemy death under his feet at the resurrection when mortal becomes immortal and its before your eyes, the kingdom at this time is handed over to the father and you know it

Verse 21 speaks of (The Resurrection Of The Dead)

Verse 23-24 speaks of Christ's second coming and the resurrection, at this time (Then Cometh The End)

Verse 26 clearly states (The Last Enemy Destroyed Is Death)

Verse 52 clearly teaches that this resurrection takes place at (The Last Trump) in the twinkling of an eye

Verse 54 clearly teaches that when mortal becomes immortal in the resurrection (The Last Enemy Death Is Destroyed)(Then Cometh The End)

Marilyn will you continue to deny the very simple words of God before your eyes, when Jesus comes the resurrection takes place (Then Cometh The End) as the Last Enemy Death Is Destroyed as mortal becomes immortal in the twinkling of an eye at the Last Trump, your 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom on this earth is "Gone" its (Then Cometh The End) at the Lord's coming, not a 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom on this earth

(The Last Enemy That Shall Be Destroyed Is Death)

1 Corinthians 15:21-26 & 52-54KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

(Death Is Swallowed Up In Victory)

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

I posted the process of the Lord putting down all rule, authority and power TILL He has put all enemies under His feet. I was pointing out mankind. And yes death is the last.

The Process of putting down all rule, authority and power. (1 Cor. 15: 24)

1. Jesus on His own throne begins judgments. (Rev. 8 & 9) the trumpet judgments.

2. Satan and his fallen angels judged and cast out of the principalities and powers area to the earth. (Rev. 12: 7 - 12)

3. The Bowl judgments. (Rev. 16)

4. The Religious aspect of the Global Government, (Harlot) dealt with. (Rev. 17: 16 & 17)

5. The Economic aspect of the Global Government. (Rev. 18)

6. The Political aspect of the Global Government and world`s armies. (Rev. 19: 11 - 21)

7. The rebellious in the millennium. (Zech. 14: 16 - 19)

 

[Marilyn C]

It is all very quick, sudden destruction takes place when Christ returns
Please read the whole chapter for relevance of this
Christ died for us, so when Christ returns, we are preserved and they are suddenly destroyed, along with that world, not 1000 years later.
We are going to be glorified together with Christ if we are of His body.
v23 also verifies this even as the return of our Lord.
The 'comfort' Paul mentions, is God will preserve us who belong to Him. We are not suddenly destroyed as they are.
v27 mentions this must be read to all the brethren it is not a private teaching and it is important teaching.
Some are unruly and some must not be submitting to the Lord's apostolic teaching about that time to come. v27.

Paul wants them all to know the truth about what will happen when Christ returns.

1 Thess 5

The Day of the Lord​

But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. 2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 3 For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. 4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. 5 You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness. 6 Therefore let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and be [a]sober. 7 For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk are drunk at night. 8 But let us who are of the day be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet the hope of salvation. 9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him.

11 Therefore [b]comfort each other and [c]edify one another, just as you also are doing.

Various Exhortations​

12 And we urge you, brethren, to recognize those who labor among you, and are over you in the Lord and [d]admonish you, 13 and to esteem them very highly in love for their work’s sake. Be at peace among yourselves.

14 Now we [e]exhort you, brethren, warn those who are [f]unruly, comfort the fainthearted, uphold the weak, be patient with all. 15 See that no one renders evil for evil to anyone, but always pursue what is good both for yourselves and for all.

16 Rejoice always, 17 pray without ceasing, 18 in everything give thanks; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you.

19 Do not quench the Spirit. 20 Do not despise prophecies. 21 Test all things; hold fast what is good. 22 Abstain from every form of evil.

Blessing and Admonition​

23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify[g] you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24 He who calls you is faithful, who also will do it.

25 Brethren, pray for us.

26 Greet all the brethren with a holy kiss.

27 I charge you by the Lord that this [h]epistle be read to all the [i]holy brethren.

28 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.

The Process of putting down all rule, authority and power. (1 Cor. 15: 24)

1. Jesus on His own throne begins judgments. (Rev. 8 & 9) the trumpet judgments.

2. Satan and his fallen angels judged and cast out of the principalities and powers area to the earth. (Rev. 12: 7 - 12)

3. The Bowl judgments. (Rev. 16)

4. The Religious aspect of the Global Government, (Harlot) dealt with. (Rev. 17: 16 & 17)

5. The Economic aspect of the Global Government. (Rev. 18)

6. The Political aspect of the Global Government and world`s armies. (Rev. 19: 11 - 21)

7. The rebellious in the millennium. (Zech. 14: 16 - 19)

 

[Marilyn C]

Both 1 Thess 5:2 and 2 Thess 1:7 refer to the same specific day of the Lord. In 1 Thess 5:2 Paul makes it clear that "sudden destruction" accompanies the unexpected arrival of the day of the Lord. In no way, shape or form did Paul teach that the day of the Lord is a "period of time". A period of time is not sudden. You are denying clear scripture and showing that you do not believe that Paul knew what he was talking about. As if you know the OT scriptures better than he did.

sudden (adjective): occurring or done quickly and unexpectedly or without warning.

We are to look at ALL of God`s word about a certain topic.


Day of the Lord - period of time. (1 Thess. 5: 2) at the beginning of the trib. is the start of the day of the Lord period of time. They will not be saying` Peace and Safety` in the trib. It is at the start of the trib.
(Joel 2: 1 & 2) The northern army descend on Israel. This is the beginning of the trib, when the nations are saying `Peace and Safety.`
(2 Thess. 2: 1 - 12) Gives detail of what will happen during the trib.


Day of the Lord - specific. (Rev. 6: 12 - 17) at the end of the trib. (2 Thess. 1: 7) Jesus coming.

 

[Truth7t7]

I posted the process of the Lord putting down all rule, authority and power TILL He has put all enemies under His feet. I was pointing out mankind. And yes death is the last.

Your in denial that the last enemy death is destroyed at the Lord's second coming and resurrection of the dead "Why"?

Because it removes your false teaching of a future 1,000 year millennial kingdom on this earth, you avoid this biblical fact in your responses like the plague

 

[Scott Downey]

Christ is in Heaven seated at the right hand of God as our High Priest of the New Covenant.
If Christ were on earth, He would not be our high priest.
And God swore that Christ was a priest forever.
Christ will not depart from the Father's side for 1000 years to rule on this earth.
Christ will continue on as high priest forever to God for us

Hebrews 7
14 For it is evident that our Lord arose from Judah, of which tribe Moses spoke nothing concerning [c]priesthood. 15 And it is yet far more evident if, in the likeness of Melchizedek, there arises another priest 16 who has come, not according to the law of a fleshly commandment, but according to the power of an endless life.

17 For [d]He testifies:

“You are a priest forever
According to the order of Melchizedek.”

Hebrews 8​

​

New King James Version​

​

​

The New Priestly Service​

1 Now this is the main point of the things we are saying: We have such a High Priest, who is seated at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, 2 a Minister of the [a]sanctuary and of the true tabernacle which the Lord erected, and not man.
3 For every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices. Therefore it is necessary that this One also have something to offer. 4 For if He were on earth, He would not be a priest, since there are priests who offer the gifts according to the law; 5 who serve the copy and shadow of the heavenly things, as Moses was divinely instructed when he was about to make the tabernacle. For He said, “See that you make all things according to the pattern shown you on the mountain.”

6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

We are to look at ALL of God`s word about a certain topic.

Of course. I say that myself very often. But, at the same time we should not cause two verses or passages to contradict each other. Now, 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3 is VERY straightforward and does NOT at all support the idea of the day of the Lord being "a period of time". So, tell me how the "sudden destruction" that occurs when the day of the Lord arrives unexpectedly can represent "a period of time" when the word "sudden" means "occurring or done quickly and unexpectedly or without warning."? Please address this specifically.

Day of the Lord - period of time. (1 Thess. 5: 2) at the beginning of the trib. is the start of the day of the Lord period of time. They will not be saying` Peace and Safety` in the trib. It is at the start of the trib.

What? How can "sudden destruction" from which those in spiritual darkness "shall not escape" represent a "period of time"? Please explain that.

(Joel 2: 1 & 2) The northern army descend on Israel. This is the beginning of the trib, when the nations are saying `Peace and Safety.`
(2 Thess. 2: 1 - 12) Gives detail of what will happen during the trib.

The day of the Lord follows the trib. It's not the trib itself as you seem to think. Notice this verse that is part of the description of the trib that you're talking about...

Joel 2:10 Before them the earth shakes, the heavens tremble, the sun and moon are darkened, and the stars no longer shine.

It seems that you think the day of the Lord is described starting with Joel 2:1 & 2, but verse 2 says the day of the Lord is coming at that point and not that it has arrived yet. Verse 10 above and surrounding verses in Joel 2 are not part of the day of the Lord, but rather are part of what occurs just before the day of the Lord arrives, as we can see here:

Joel 2:31 The sun will be turned to darkness and the moon to blood before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord.

Those in spiritual darkness are saying "peace and safety" BEFORE the day of the Lord arrives unexpectedly and destroys them suddenly.

Day of the Lord - specific. (Rev. 6: 12 - 17) at the end of the trib. (2 Thess. 1: 7) Jesus coming.

There is no difference between this and the day of the Lord referenced in Joel 2:2;32 and 1 Thess 5:2-3.

To define "the day of the Lord" in two different ways as you do is a clear case of manipulating scripture to make it say what you want it to say. The day of the Lord is not both a 24 hour day and some longer period of time. That makes no sense whatsoever. Make up your mind about how long you think is the duration of the day of the Lord without contradicting yourself by inexplicably saying that it's both a 24 hour day and a longer "period of time".

 

[Marilyn C]

Your in denial that the last enemy death is destroyed at the Lord's second coming and resurrection of the dead "Why"?

Because it removes your false teaching of a future 1,000 year millennial kingdom on this earth, you avoid this biblical fact in your responses like the plague

Why? because there are still more rulers to put down by the Lord. In the millennium more people are born and some are rebellious. They will be dealt with by the Lord. (Zech. 14: 11 - 19)

The millennium is the time God promised Israel that they would rule the nations of the world. It is the fulfillment of God`s final Feast for Israel - the Feast of Tabernacles. (God with them by His Holy Spirit) (Zech. 14: 16 Micah 4: 1 - 3)

 

[Marilyn C]

Of course. I say that myself very often. But, at the same time we should not cause two verses or passages to contradict each other. Now, 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3 is VERY straightforward and does NOT at all support the idea of the day of the Lord being "a period of time". So, tell me how the "sudden destruction" that occurs when the day of the Lord arrives unexpectedly can represent "a period of time" when the word "sudden" means "occurring or done quickly and unexpectedly or without warning."? Please address this specifically.


What? How can "sudden destruction" from which those in spiritual darkness "shall not escape" represent a "period of time"? Please explain that.


The day of the Lord follows the trib. It's not the trib itself as you seem to think. Notice this verse that is part of the description of the trib that you're talking about...

Joel 2:10 Before them the earth shakes, the heavens tremble, the sun and moon are darkened, and the stars no longer shine.

It seems that you think the day of the Lord is described starting with Joel 2:1 & 2, but verse 2 says the day of the Lord is coming at that point and not that it has arrived yet. Verse 10 above and surrounding verses in Joel 2 are not part of the day of the Lord, but rather are part of what occurs just before the day of the Lord arrives, as we can see here:

Joel 2:31 The sun will be turned to darkness and the moon to blood before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord.

Those in spiritual darkness are saying "peace and safety" BEFORE the day of the Lord arrives unexpectedly and destroys them suddenly.


There is no difference between this and the day of the Lord referenced in Joel 2:2;32 and 1 Thess 5:2-3.

To define "the day of the Lord" in two different ways as you do is a clear case of manipulating scripture to make it say what you want it to say. The day of the Lord is not both a 24 hour day and some longer period of time. That makes no sense whatsoever. Make up your mind about how long you think is the duration of the day of the Lord without contradicting yourself by inexplicably saying that it's both a 24 hour day and a longer "period of time".

Day of the Lord (period of time)

In 1 Thess. 5: 2 -3 the `sudden destruction` is God`s judgment upon the northern army and other nations that come against Israel. God deals very severely with them. (Ez. 38: 18 - 23) That is the beginning of the period of time called the Day of the Lord.

Joel 2 has the beginning of the Day of the Lord (period of time) with the northern army coming over Israel`s mountains. The sun and moon grow dark, there is an earthquake, (Joel 2: 10 Ez. 38: 18 - 23). The northern army is dealt with and removed.

Day of the Lord (specific 24 hours)

When the Lord comes in power and great glory with His angelic army it is at the end of the trib, and that is certainly not a `Peace and Safety` time. It is the Day of the Lord (specific), the sun and moon grow dim, there is a great earthquake and the Lord deals with the world`s armies. (Note different armies there).

BTW have you checked out the Hebrew and Greek for the word `Day?`

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Why? because there are still more rulers to put down by the Lord. In the millennium more people are born and some are rebellious. They will be dealt with by the Lord. (Zech. 14: 11 - 19)

The millennium is the time God promised Israel that they would rule the nations of the world. It is the fulfillment of God`s final Feast for Israel - the Feast of Tabernacles. (God with them by His Holy Spirit) (Zech. 14: 16 Micah 4: 1 - 3)

When it comes to debating Amill vs. Premill, I normally debate with Post-trib Premills. So, I focus on showing them that no unbelievers survive the return of Christ to show that there would be no mortals left to populate the earth at that point.

But, since you are pre-trib, I think you may agree that no unbelievers survive His return, but you would say that the ones who initially populate the earth during a supposed future millennium will be what you call "tribulation saints". Is that correct? If so, do you believe these "tribulation saints" will inherit the kingdom with mortal bodies? It seems that must be the case since you talk about more people being born at that point. I won't say any more for now until you confirm whether or not I understand your view correctly.

 

[Marilyn C]

When it comes to debating Amill vs. Premill, I normally debate with Post-trib Premills. So, I focus on showing them that no unbelievers survive the return of Christ to show that there would be no mortals left to populate the earth at that point.

But, since you are pre-trib, I think you may agree that no unbelievers survive His return, but you would say that the ones who initially populate the earth during a supposed future millennium will be what you call "tribulation saints". Is that correct? If so, do you believe these "tribulation saints" will inherit the kingdom with mortal bodies? It seems that must be the case since you talk about more people being born at that point. I won't say any more for now until you confirm whether or not I understand your view correctly.

I believe there will be people who turn to God during the trib, and die,(great multitude) but still there are those of the `sheep` nations who go into the millennial kingdom. So, yes that is what I believe from God`s word.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

In 1 Thess. 5: 2 -3 the `sudden destruction` is God`s judgment upon the northern army and other nations that come against Israel.

Can you show me where Paul gives any indication whatsoever that the "sudden destruction" only comes upon "the northern army and other nations that come against Israel."? Why would he be talking to Gentile believers about something that only happens in Israel while telling them to be prepared for it by saying "let us watch and be sober" instead of being like those who are in spiritual darkness?

Did you read beyond verse 3 at all for context?

1 Thessalonians 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. 4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. 5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. 6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

Can you see here that Paul said NOTHING at all about "the northern army and other nations that come against Israel" being the ones who are saying "peace and safety" before being destroyed? But, rather, it is those who are in spiritual darkness, who are contrasted with those of us who are in spiritual light, who are the ones that will experience "sudden destruction" on the day of the Lord from which "they shall not escape".

And, when we look at the following passage about the very same event of the day of the Lord that will come as a thief in the night, we can see why Paul said that those in spiritual darkness will not escape the sudden destruction that will come upon them when the day of the Lord arrives unexpectedly.

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

How can anyone in the world who is in spiritual darkness escape what is described here, which is the burning up of the heavens and the earth when the day of the Lord comes unexpectedly as a thief in the night? It's not possible. That's why Paul said "they shall not escape". The "sudden destruction" will be in the form of fire upon the entire earth.

BTW have you checked out the Hebrew and Greek for the word `Day?`

Of course I have. You are not talking to someone who just started studying these things yesterday. Yes, I know the word can refer to a 24 hour day or a period of time. However, the day of the Lord is the day of the Lord. There are not two days of the Lord. There is just one, so the day must represent only one unit of time, whether that is 24 hours or a period of time. Not both. You can make scripture say whatever you want it to say if you do not define the day of the Lord consistently in each passage it is talked about.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I believe there will be people who turn to God during the trib, and die,(great multitude) but still there are those of the `sheep` nations who go into the millennial kingdom. So, yes that is what I believe from God`s word.

You said to me in another post that "We are to look at ALL of God`s word about a certain topic.". Why are you not doing that here? Why do you have mortal, corruptible flesh and blood inheriting the kingdom of God when Paul said that is not possible?

1 Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

 

[Marilyn C]

Can you show me where Paul gives any indication whatsoever that the "sudden destruction" only comes upon "the northern army and other nations that come against Israel."? Why would he be talking to Gentile believers about something that only happens in Israel while telling them to be prepared for it by saying "let us watch and be sober" instead of being like those who are in spiritual darkness?

Did you read beyond verse 3 at all for context?

1 Thessalonians 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. 4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. 5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. 6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

Can you see here that Paul said NOTHING at all about "the northern army and other nations that come against Israel" being the ones who are saying "peace and safety" before being destroyed? But, rather, it is those who are in spiritual darkness, who are contrasted with those of us who are in spiritual light, who are the ones that will experience "sudden destruction" on the day of the Lord from which "they shall not escape".

And, when we look at the following passage about the very same event of the day of the Lord that will come as a thief in the night, we can see why Paul said that those in spiritual darkness will not escape the sudden destruction that will come upon them when the day of the Lord arrives unexpectedly.

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

How can anyone in the world who is in spiritual darkness escape what is described here, which is the burning up of the heavens and the earth when the day of the Lord comes unexpectedly as a thief in the night? It's not possible. That's why Paul said "they shall not escape". The "sudden destruction" will be in the form of fire upon the entire earth.


Of course I have. You are not talking to someone who just started studying these things yesterday. Yes, I know the word can refer to a 24 hour day or a period of time. However, the day of the Lord is the day of the Lord. There are not two days of the Lord. There is just one, so the day must represent only one unit of time, whether that is 24 hours or a period of time. Not both. You can make scripture say whatever you want it to say if you do not define the day of the Lord consistently in each passage it is talked about.

Glad you acknowledge there are two meanings to the word Day. Thus, we are talking about context. Paul said to his disciples, the Thessalonians - `But concerning the times and seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you.` (1 Thess. 5: 1)

When Paul spoke to his disciples in Thessalonica he said to them –

`But concerning the times and seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you.` (1 Thess. 5: 1)

Paul had spent time with these disciples, living among them and thus he would have shared what God had revealed to him concerning the `times and seasons`, especially for the Body of Christ.

The Times and Seasons in Greek have the same meaning but can differ according to the context – a set or proper time, or a season.

Paul revealed to his disciples the 3 prophetic Days of God:

• The Day of Christ, for the Body of Christ. (the Lord Jesus Christ)
• The Day of the LORD, for Israel and the Nations. The LORD GOD Almighty)
• The Day of God, when He is all in all.

Thus, Paul told the Thessalonians that the Day of the LORD would not overtake them for they were not in darkness but in the light.

`But you, brethren, are not in darkness that this Day (of the LORD) should overtake you as a thief. You are all sons of light…` ( 1 Thess. 5: 4 & 5)

So, could you please address the two different armies that the Lord deals with - northern (beginning of the Day of the Lord time period) and the world`s armies at the end of the trib, (day of the Lord specific).

 

[Marilyn C]

You said to me in another post that "We are to look at ALL of God`s word about a certain topic.". Why are you not doing that here? Why do you have mortal, corruptible flesh and blood inheriting the kingdom of God when Paul said that is not possible?

1 Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

The kingdom (rule) of heaven in the millennium is different from the Kingdom of God which is overall. The kingdom parables reveal what was promised to Israel concerning the rule of heaven through them over the nations.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Glad you acknowledge there are two meanings to the word Day.

LOL! Why would I not? Now, you need to acknowledge that there is only one day of the Lord and that day has the same duration in every passage where it is referenced.

Thus, we are talking about context.

Yes, we are. I showed you the context of 1 Thess 5:2-3 by looking at the surrounding verses.

Paul said to his disciples, the Thessalonians - `But concerning the times and seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you.` (1 Thess. 5: 1)

When Paul spoke to his disciples in Thessalonica he said to them –

`But concerning the times and seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you.` (1 Thess. 5: 1)

Paul had spent time with these disciples, living among them and thus he would have shared what God had revealed to him concerning the `times and seasons`, especially for the Body of Christ.

The Times and Seasons in Greek have the same meaning but can differ according to the context – a set or proper time, or a season.

Hold on here. Where did Paul indicate that the day of the Lord has a duration of "times and seasons"? Nowhere. That's not what he was saying there. He was talking about the times and seasons (time period) that would lead up to the day of the Lord. Similar to how Jesus referred to the days leading up to His second coming by comparing them to the days of Noah (the time period leading up to the flood) and the days of Lot (the time period leading up to the destruction of Sodom).

Again, you can't just ignore that once the day of the Lord arrives it immediately brings "sudden destruction". You can't turn "sudden destruction" into "times and seasons". You are making Paul contradict himself with your interpretation.

Paul revealed to his disciples the 3 prophetic Days of God:

• The Day of Christ, for the Body of Christ. (the Lord Jesus Christ)
• The Day of the LORD, for Israel and the Nations. The LORD GOD Almighty)
• The Day of God, when He is all in all.

That's all the same day. Period. There is no basis for thinking otherwise and I'm not going to waste time arguing about that. You do things like this to make scripture say whatever you want it to say.

Thus, Paul told the Thessalonians that the Day of the LORD would not overtake them for they were not in darkness but in the light.

`But you, brethren, are not in darkness that this Day (of the LORD) should overtake you as a thief. You are all sons of light…` ( 1 Thess. 5: 4 & 5)

So, please could you please address the two different armies that the Lord deals with - northern (beginning of the Day of the Lord time period) and the world`s armies at the end of the trib, (day of the Lord specific).

Wait a minute here. You are all over the place and near impossible to follow. Before, you were saying that the sudden destruction described in 1 Thess 5:2-3 is the sudden destruction of the armies in Israel described in Joel 2, were you not? How does that relate to Paul telling the Thessalonians, who were not in Israel, that the day of the Lord would not overtake them, not because they were not in Israel, but rather because they were not in spiritual darkness and were instead in spiritual light?

 

[Marilyn C]

LOL! Why would I not? Now, you need to acknowledge that there is only one day of the Lord and that day has the same duration in every passage where it is referenced.


Yes, we are. I showed you the context of 1 Thess 5:2-3 by looking at the surrounding verses.


Hold on here. Where did Paul indicate that the day of the Lord has a duration of "times and seasons"? Nowhere. That's not what he was saying there. He was talking about the times and seasons (time period) that would lead up to the day of the Lord. Similar to how Jesus referred to the days leading up to His second coming by comparing them to the days of Noah (the time period leading up to the flood) and the days of Lot (the time period leading up to the destruction of Sodom).

Again, you can't just ignore that once the day of the Lord arrives it immediately brings "sudden destruction". You can't turn "sudden destruction" into "times and seasons". You are making Paul contradict himself with your interpretation.


That's all the same day. Period. There is no basis for thinking otherwise and I'm not going to waste time arguing about that. You do things like this to make scripture say whatever you want it to say.


Wait a minute here. You are all over the place and near impossible to follow. Before, you were saying that the sudden destruction described in 1 Thess 5:2-3 is the sudden destruction of the armies in Israel described in Joel 2, were you not? How does that relate to Paul telling the Thessalonians, who were not in Israel, that the day of the Lord would not overtake them, not because they were not in Israel, but rather because they were not in spiritual darkness and were instead in spiritual light?

Sorry you think I am `all over the place.` I am trying to answer your questions. So, how about you answering the two different armies?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The kingdom (rule) of heaven in the millennium is different from the Kingdom of God which is overall.

You seem to find a way around everything instead of accepting what scripture teaches. I can't take that seriously.

The kingdom of heaven and kingdom of God are the same thing. You try to create 3 separate days of the Lord/LORD/God, even though scripture does no such thing and uses those terms synonymously, and now you differentiate between the kingdom of heaven and kingdom of God even though those terms are used in scripture synonymously.

Matthew 19:23 Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”

Can you see here how Jesus interchangeably and synonymously referred to "the kingdom of heaven" and "the kingdom of God"? They are the same. There are several other examples like this where "the kingdom of heaven" and "the kingdom of God" are used synonymously as well.

 

[Marilyn C]

The Kingdom of God is overall and the kingdom of heaven is a subset. The kingdom of heaven is only mentioned in Matthew who deals with the Kingship of Christ. It refers to the Lord`s rule (from heaven) through israel over the nations. (Dan. 2: 44 the God of heaven will set up a kingdom - shortened to the kingdom of heaven)

In the other gospels written to the Romans, Greeks the kingdom of God is written for that is their part as the nations and not as ruling.

So, what about the two armies?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Sorry you think I am `all over the place.

Well, that is because you seem to say things that contradict previous things you said. I can't tell who exactly you think is destroyed with the "sudden destruction" that Paul references in 1 Thess 5:2-3. You seemed to say two different things about that. Can you clarify it?

You also make things convoluted by trying to claim that the day of the Lord, the day of God and the day of Christ are different things (they are not) and that the kingdom of heaven and kingdom of God are different (they are not) and so on. It's just difficult to keep track of all that. My view is much simpler than yours, overall.

` I am trying to answer your questions.

I appreciate that.

So, how about you answering the two different armies?

Well, unlike passages like 1 Thess 5:2-3 and 2 Peter 3:10-12, Joel 2 is not literal and straightforward text. It is mostly symbolic and covers the entire last days (New Testament) time period rather than just the future day of the Lord. One army is the Lord's army (Joel 2:11) and then northern army (Joel 2:20) that is kept at bay from the Lord's people would be Satan's army. Like in the book of Revelation, the battle between the Lord and His army and Satan and his army is described symbolically in Joel 2.

Joel 2 covers a lot of ground in relation to time. It refers to different things that occur during the last days, which refer to the New Testament time period. If you look at Joel 2:28-32 and then look at Acts 2:16-21, you should see that Peter quotes the Joel 2 passage there and relates it to the last days and what was happening on the day of Pentecost when the Holy Spirit was being poured out. So, the last days had begun already before that and they continue up until the future second coming of Christ (the day of the Lord), according to Peter in 2 Peter 3:3-4. In Acts 2:16-21, which, again, references Joel 2:28-32, Peter described the last days as the time period during which the Holy Spirit woud be poured out and people would call on the name of the Lord to be saved up until the day of the Lord.

So, part of Joel 2 relates to things that applied to the first coming of Christ and the time following that in Israel and part relates to things related to the future day of the Lord, which is a global event, as 2 Peter 3:10-12 makes clear.

The Lord's army that comes on the day of the Lord is a reference to His angels and Jesus Himself will defeat Satan's army of fallen angels and human followers. Jesus will be coming with His angels when He takes vengeance on His enemies on the day of the Lord, according to Paul in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10.

If you expect me to explain every detail in Joel 2, that's too much to expect as it is a difficult passage to interpret in detail because of it mostly not being straightforward literal text and it containing a lot of symbolism.

But, I've given a general overview of the chapter while showing NT scripture which quotes part of Joel 2 to help establish the context of it.

The thing you need to understand is that the New Testament sheds light on the Old Testament prophecies. We can trust that Paul and Peter knew what they were talking about when they wrote about the day of the Lord and they understood the OT prophecies like Joel 2 better than we do. So, if Paul and Peter indicate that the day of the Lord is an actual 24 hour day during which, at some point, the Lord will come unexpectedly as a thief in the night on the day of the Lord to suddenly (quickly) destroy all of His enemies on the earth, then we should accept that and not try to change what they taught as if we somehow understand the OT prophecies better than they did.

Paul and Peter's descriptions of the day of the Lord are very straightforward, unlike Joel 2. So, they made it easier on us to understand what the day of the Lord is about and what will happen on that day, which was not made clear in Joel 2 because of the symbolism and overall lack of straightforward text found there (not saying nothing in it is literal, but most is symbolic).