The Four Stages of Mankind's Redemption:

[Ronald Nolette]

You don't know the father of the futurism that deceives you? For shame.

You didn't because there's no rebuttal of Christ the Divine Intercessory Mediator of His Completely Fulfilled New Covenant.

Not of your dangling semi-covenant more than 2,000 years old and counting interminably.

Well as you say it is completely fufliled so then you should have no problem pointing to a point in time and saying thse are where the terms oif the covenant were completely fuflilled.

Let me refresh your memory on the Covenant and the terms god laid out.

Jeremiah 31:31-37

King James Version

​

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
35 Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The Lord of hosts is his name:
36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
37 Thus saith the Lord; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the Lord.

Hebrews 8:8-13

King James Version

​

8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Just show me the time when God completely fufliflled the terms of Hiss New Covenant as you said He did and we can end this thread! It is that simple.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

ou must not be reading my posts. It was the point in time when Jesus died on the cross. Is there anything hard to understand about this?

You clearly don't even know what the veil of the temple tearing in two represented. It represented the first/old covenant being made obsolete with the better second/new covenant of Christ's shed blood being put into effect and replacing the old covenant (Hebrews 8:6-7).

So God no longer remembers the sin sof Israel and all Jews no longer need to be taught to know th eLord? That is what God said He would do in the covenant. Let me refresh you rmemory

Hebrews 8:8-13

King James Version

​

8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

That is apparently what you think about Hebrews 8 to 10. You definitely seem to have all of those verses except for Hebrews 8:8-12 missing from your Bible.

No I take it literally. You are the one who told me it doesn't mean what it actually says and we have to read it with a spiritual mind.

Why should I bother when you don't accept it when I show you what Hebrews 8:6-7 means? You think "was established" means "will be established". How can I reason with such a person as you? Seems impossible.

I accept it 100% but once again I look at things literally and you read things spiritually. Until I get my decoder ring from your church I am only 99% sure of the spiritual meaning which you declare is different from the literal meaning.

But for "was estab;lished, I look at it from the original way it was written and draw my conclusion from that, nor from a simple English translation which reads differently thann the inspired original.

Tell me, when Joel 2:28 says that the Holy Spirit would be poured out on all people is it talking about literally all people? That is what is written.

Joel 2:28 “And afterward, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your old men will dream dreams, your young men will see visions.

In the context of who Joel was writing to, yes it literally means all. and that is even confirmed in at least one other OT prophesy. but then again that is taking gods Word at its Word and not some psychic meaning.

Your reading comprehension skills are utterly horrible. I said no such thing. What I actually did say is that a person doesn't have to be a Catholic to know what Catholicism is about.


Have you lost your mind? You're speaking complete gibberish.


Give me quotes because I don't know what you're talking about. What I recall without looking it up right now is that you said you knew Catholicism far better than covenantee does and your evidence for that was that you used to be a Catholic for 20 years. I responded and said you don't have to be a Catholic to understand Catholicism because there is a lot of information available on the Internet about it, including from Catholics themselves.

How did you get from any of this that I accused you of "not knowing much"? I said no such thing. I'm just saying that others can learn as much as you by reading the information about Catholicism on the Internet.

If I bother to look this up and prove you are lhying will you recant and ask for forgiveness? Or just escape into saying you were speaking spiritually.

You must not be reading my posts. It was the point in time when Jesus died on the cross. Is there anything hard to understand about this?

You clearly don't even know what the veil of the temple tearing in two represented. It represented the first/old covenant being made obsolete with the better second/new covenant of Christ's shed blood being put into effect and replacing the old covenant (Hebrews 8:6-7).

So when Jesus died opn the cross these terms of the new covenant became true:

10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

So all 12 tribes of Israel have Gods laws in their hearts, and no longer need to be taught to know the Lord and all their sins are forgven since the death of Jesus?

that is what you say you are beleiving.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

How do any of us know? Are we told to rely on our own understanding or on God's understanding that He gives to us (Proverbs 3:5-6)? Some things in scripture are obvious. Paul referred to those things as spiritual milk (1 Cor 3:2). Those that are not so obvious Paul called spiritual "meat" or "solid food". We need the Holy Spirit to help us understand the solid food (1 Cor 3:2) or "deep things of God" (1 Cor 2:10).

So maybe the JW's are right when they say Jesus did not physically rise from the dead. After all they Got that from the Holy spirit in the same way you get your "deeper meanings". I know others call that reading between the lines, god calles it rewriting Scripture.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

What to believe?

1. Less than 200 years of modernist revisionist dispensational delusionism
2. More than 1700 years of united historical Christian orthodoxy

Hint?

How about the word of God despite what Romanism taught.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

What a silly thing to say. Have you ever heard of the Internet? You know, it's the things that allows for us to be talking to each other. It has a lot of information on it. Not sure if you were aware. And that includes information on Catholicism, including from Catholics themselves. So, it's just nothing short of ludicrous to think that someone can't know Catholicism just as much as you do just because they were never Catholic.

What a silly thing to say. Have you ever heard of the Internet? You know, it's the things that allows for us to be talking to each other. It has a lot of information on it. Not sure if you were aware. And that includes information on Catholicism, including from Catholics themselves. So, it's just nothing short of ludicrous to think that someone can't know Catholicism just as much as you do just because they were never Catholic.

Did you spend dozens of hours going through Canon Law? Did you go and learn the Baltimore Catechism? Have you even read a pre and post Vatican 2 catechism? Or on the internet did you pore over a catholic catechism? Or are you just once again bloviating!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

You think we should interpret scripture like "the natural man" who relies only on "man's wisdom" instead of getting discernment from the Holy Spirit, so that's why you think the interpretations of those who do not rely on "man's wisdom" and instead rely on the Holy Spirit for understanding are foolishness. You don't want to accept the NT authors explanations of the fulfillment of OT prophecies, but I fully accept them instead of insist on a wooden literal fulfillment based only on my own wisdom instead.

Thgis is what the cults and occult do. What you believe is simply worded this way:

I know what the words in Scripture say, but they really mean this".

It is what every denier does to justify reinterpreting Scripture.

 

[covenantee]

How about the word of God despite what Romanism taught.

So you think that historical Christian orthodoxy is Romanism.

Talk about confused.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

In the context of who Joel was writing to, yes it literally means all. and that is even confirmed in at least one other OT prophesy. but then again that is taking gods Word at its Word and not some psychic meaning.

LOL! In the context of who Joel was writing to? What does that mean. The text itself says the Spirit of God would be poured out on all people. How do you take that literally? It's not talking about literally all people even though that it what is written. You said yourself you have to look at the context. That is the case for Jeremiah 31 as well, but you still insist on trying to interpret it as literally as possible without looking at contexct and without looking at what Hebrews 8 to 10 says about the new covenant, which is that it WAS ESTABLISHED by the blood of Christ which also made the old covenant obsolete at the same time.

If I bother to look this up and prove you are lhying will you recant and ask for forgiveness? Or just escape into saying you were speaking spiritually.

Yes, I would do that, but unlike you, I actually know what I said, so I have no concerns that you can possibly prove that I'm lying, because I'm not.

So when Jesus died opn the cross these terms of the new covenant became true:

10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

So all 12 tribes of Israel have Gods laws in their hearts, and no longer need to be taught to know the Lord and all their sins are forgven since the death of Jesus?

that is what you say you are beleiving.

In the context of what it means, yes. Just like you said about Joel 2:28-32 and what that means when it talks about God pouring out His Spirit on all people. The context is not literally all people, but all believers and that is the case for Jeremiah 31, also.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Thgis is what the cults and occult do. What you believe is simply worded this way:

I know what the words in Scripture say, but they really mean this".

It is what every denier does to justify reinterpreting Scripture.

So, you think Paul didn't know what he was talking about when he said the deeper things of scripture must be spiritually discerned? Why do you think so lowly of Paul? Or is 1 Corinthians 2:9-16 somehow missing from your Bible?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Did you spend dozens of hours going through Canon Law? Did you go and learn the Baltimore Catechism? Have you even read a pre and post Vatican 2 catechism? Or on the internet did you pore over a catholic catechism? Or are you just once again bloviating!

LOL! You really need to get over yourself. You arrogance is off the charts! Humble yourself! No one needs to all that nonsense in order to know what Catholicism teaches.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

So maybe the JW's are right when they say Jesus did not physically rise from the dead. After all they Got that from the Holy spirit in the same way you get your "deeper meanings". I know others call that reading between the lines, god calles it rewriting Scripture.

You can't even discern the difference between the deeper things of scripture and the rest. It's the same as the difference between the milk and the solid food that Paul talked about in 1 Corinthians 3:1-2. I'm not talking about simple things that everyone should know like Jesus rising from the dead. You have so little discernment about anything at all, that I'm not sure if I could teach you 1 + 1 = 2.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

So you think that historical Christian orthodoxy is Romanism.

Talk about confused.

Still waiting for you to show when the terms of the new covenant as spelled out in Jer31 and Heb 8 were fulfilled completely as you said.

So are you aaying there was no orthodox Christianity at all from c. 500AD until hte mid 1300's? RCC was about the only sect around except for small small very heretical sects like the Lollards.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

LOL! In the context of who Joel was writing to? What does that mean. The text itself says the Spirit of God would be poured out on all people. How do you take that literally? It's not talking about literally all people even though that it what is written. You said yourself you have to look at the context. That is the case for Jeremiah 31 as well, but you still insist on trying to interpret it as literally as possible without looking at contexct and without looking at what Hebrews 8 to 10 says about the new covenant, which is that it WAS ESTABLISHED by the blood of Christ which also made the old covenant obsolete at the same time.

I know how I take it literally, but it requires more than a first grade understanding of grammar as you have demonstrated.

Getting back to Hebrews 8 I will once again ask you to show when these terms of the covenant were fullied:

Hebrews 8:6-13

King James Version

​

6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Please show me one verse or mention of gentiles or the church in the terms laid out here. YOu are good at howling and whing and accusing, but you have yet to point to one verse that says this is for the church.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

So, you think Paul didn't know what he was talking about when he said the deeper things of scripture must be spiritually discerned? Why do you think so lowly of Paul? Or is 1 Corinthians 2:9-16 somehow missing from your Bible?

No I agree with Paul 100% But I totally disagree with you when y7ou say that the bible in its plain passages does not mean what it says but has a different emaning than wht the words say.

And I am not talking qabout teh very clear and obvious symbolic passages so don't go there.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

LOL! You really need to get over yourself. You arrogance is off the charts! Humble yourself! No one needs to all that nonsense in order to know what Catholicism teaches.

YOu really are arrogant and naive. You think you can just hit google and get to know all about Catholicism? Well you can but it takes many many hours of reading to do so which I know you haven't done.

But if you think you have good knowledge, please tell us what a second grade Catholic school kid knows. What is the difference between mortal and venial sins.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

You can't even discern the difference between the deeper things of scripture and the rest. It's the same as the difference between the milk and the solid food that Paul talked about in 1 Corinthians 3:1-2. I'm not talking about simple things that everyone should know like Jesus rising from the dead. You have so little discernment about anything at all, that I'm not sure if I could teach you 1 + 1 = 2.

You are a typical Cult leader wannabe> You seek to reinterpret SCripture and call it "the deeper things of God" so people have to rely on your special relatiosnhip with god who tells you what He really meant which is different that what He inspired the Apostles to write as well as the OT writers.

And no you coulod not teach me 1+1=2 because in your mystic moindset, it probably doesn't mean that.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

No I agree with Paul 100% But I totally disagree with you when y7ou say that the bible in its plain passages does not mean what it says but has a different emaning than wht the words say.

I don't say that. You are a liar.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You are a typical Cult leader wannabe> You seek to reinterpret SCripture and call it "the deeper things of God" so people have to rely on your special relatiosnhip with god who tells you what He really meant which is different that what He inspired the Apostles to write as well as the OT writers.

And no you coulod not teach me 1+1=2 because in your mystic moindset, it probably doesn't mean that.

I'm done with your foolishness. I have much better things to do than deal with a whiny little child who has no idea how to debate and doesn't understand that spiritual discernment has nothing to do with spiritualizing scripture, but rather being able to discern what is literal and what is not.

 

[covenantee]

So are you aaying there was no orthodox Christianity at all from c. 500AD until hte mid 1300's?

You're the one saying that as you're equating orthodox Christianity with Romanism.

RCC was about the only sect around except for small small very heretical sects like the Lollards.

Heretical according to you? Are you a closet papist?

The Lollards were led by John Wycliffe. Any idea who he was?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I don't say that. You are a liar.

YOu already did. YOu told us here that What was writtenn in Jer. 31 is not what was meant and that we have to find the spiritual meanings of th ebible. YOu showed that there is otrher definitions other than what is written.

No my brother it is you who are lying about what you have written on this thread.