Apostolic Succession.

[Rockerduck]

I agree. In fact I have clicked on the "Agree" button on several of your posts in this thread. I have not said that the apostles chose. I quote the passage from Acts 1, then wrote: "No mention there of Peter choosing Mathias. The existing apostles prayed that God would show them which of the two men He had chosen to replace Judas." I think you may have misunderstood what I meant.

Ok, I am saying, the apostles should have waited for answer, not pick two for God to choose. Remember King Saul disobeyed God by doing what he wanted instead, but Samuel showed up and said " For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the Lord, he hath also rejected thee from being king. 1 Samuel 15:23. By not waiting, they in fact were rebelling by acting on their own.

 

[CadyandZoe]

"I will give to you the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven" (Matt. 18:16)

"Most certainly I tell you, whatever things you bind on earth will have been bound in Heaven, and whatever things you release on earth will have been released in Heaven." (Matt. 18:18)

"Whoever listens to you listens to Me." (Lk. 10:16)

All the Apostles were given this insight. It was not given to Peter exclusively.

 

[Behold]

Jesus made Peter first among his equals:

@Origen ,, do you know that the real Origin, was insane, and took a knife and castrated Himself?

Try not to do that....

Now... after Jesus was back in Heaven, He called Saul the Pharisee to become Paul the Apostle, and Jesus gave Paul all the doctrine for the Church, and most importantly,= the Gospel.

Peter meanwhile......had no idea that Gentiles could be saved...... had no understanding of the New Covenant......and it was 10 yrs after Jesus was back in Heaven, that God had to give Peter a "vision" in Acts 10, to begin to teach Peter that gentiles could be saved.
And in Acts 15, Peter met Paul, and Paul taught Him the Gospel, and church Doctrine.

But Later, Paul had to correct Peter in Public, because """"Peter ( and his group) walked not uprightly according to the Truth"""""".

At the end of Peter's life, in 2nd Peter........He had Paul's letters, that eventually became all the church doctrine and most of the epistles in the New Testament, and Peter said at that time...that Paul's letters are equal to the Torah....they are "SCRIPTURE".

"I also tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My Church,

Jesus did not and does not bulid the Body of Christ on the "cult of Mary"s proclaimed "Fake" Pope Peter.

Jesus builds His Body of Christ, on the REVELATION that Peter gave to Jesus .. which is that = "YOU are the MESSIAH"'The Son of God".
So, the "Church" is built on THAT REVELATION, and the "gates of hell shall not prevail against it".

Notice this verse..

"And CHRIST is that Rock".........

See that?..........So there is WHERE "the Church" finds its Eternal FOUNDATION.... = ON JESUS.

 

[Origen]

There is nothing in Acts 1:20 that says John or Peter could pick a replacement, or any of the 11 left, much less Peter who did not make the best discissions, you know, like denying Jesus.

"When they had entered the city, they went up to the upstairs room where they were staying, that is, Peter, John, James, and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, Simon the Zealot, and Judas of James. All these were continually devoting themselves with one mind to prayer, along with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with His brothers.

At this time Peter stood up among the brothers and sisters, and said, “Brothers, the Scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit foretold by the mouth of David concerning Judas, who became a guide to those who arrested Jesus. For he was counted among us and received his share in this ministry.” (Now this man acquired a field with the price of his wickedness, and falling headlong, he burst open in the middle and all his intestines gushed out. And it became known to all the residents of Jerusalem; as a result that field was called Hakeldama in their own language, that is, Field of Blood.) “For it is written in the book of Psalms:

‘May his residence be made desolate,
And may there be none living in it’;
and,

‘May another take his office.’ Therefore it is necessary that of the men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us—beginning with the baptism of John until the day that He was taken up from us—one of these must become a witness with us of His resurrection.” So they put forward two men, Joseph called Barsabbas (who was also called Justus), and Matthias. And they prayed and said, “You, Lord, who know the hearts of all people, show which one of these two You have chosen to occupy this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside to go to his own place.” And they drew lots for them, and the lot fell to Matthias; and he was added to the eleven apostles."

The replacement/succession of the apostle Judas of Kerioth with Matthias is apostolic succession.

 

[Origen]

Here are those verses:

“"For it is written in the book of Psalms: ‘Let his dwelling place be desolate, And let no one live in it’; and, ‘Let another take his office.’ "Therefore, of these men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, "beginning from the baptism of John to that day when He was taken up from us, one of these must become a witness with us of His resurrection." And they proposed two: Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias. And they prayed and said, "You, O Lord, who know the hearts of all, show which of these two You have chosen "to take part in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place."” (Ac 1:20-25 NKJV)

No mention there of Peter choosing Mathias. The existing apostles prayed that God would show them which of the two men He had chosen to replace Judas.

There is nothing in Acts 1:20 that says John or Peter could pick a replacement, or any of the 11 left, much less Peter who did not make the best discissions, you know, like denying Jesus.

"When they had entered the city, they went up to the upstairs room where they were staying, that is, Peter, John, James, and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, Simon the Zealot, and Judas of James. All these were continually devoting themselves with one mind to prayer, along with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with His brothers.

At this time Peter stood up among the brothers and sisters, and said, “Brothers, the Scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit foretold by the mouth of David concerning Judas, who became a guide to those who arrested Jesus. For he was counted among us and received his share in this ministry.” (Now this man acquired a field with the price of his wickedness, and falling headlong, he burst open in the middle and all his intestines gushed out. And it became known to all the residents of Jerusalem; as a result that field was called Hakeldama in their own language, that is, Field of Blood.) “For it is written in the book of Psalms:

‘May his residence be made desolate,
And may there be none living in it’;
and,

‘May another take his office.’ Therefore it is necessary that of the men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us—beginning with the baptism of John until the day that He was taken up from us—one of these must become a witness with us of His resurrection.” So they put forward two men, Joseph called Barsabbas (who was also called Justus), and Matthias. And they prayed and said, “You, Lord, who know the hearts of all people, show which one of these two You have chosen to occupy this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside to go to his own place.” And they drew lots for them, and the lot fell to Matthias; and he was added to the eleven apostles."

The replacement/succession of the apostle Judas of Kerioth with Matthias is apostolic succession.

 

[Behold]

How do you know this is a "" cult of mary"?

Let a POPE define it for you..

The phrase "To Jesus Through Mary" rose to prominence through St. Louis de Montfort's book True Devotion to Mary.
He used these words to explain that devotion to Mary is the best way to grow closer to Jesus, because Mary herself will lead us to her Son if we ask her to do so.
-
-


-

 

[Rockerduck]

"When they had entered the city, they went up to the upstairs room where they were staying, that is, Peter, John, James, and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, Simon the Zealot, and Judas of James. All these were continually devoting themselves with one mind to prayer, along with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with His brothers.

At this time Peter stood up among the brothers and sisters, and said, “Brothers, the Scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit foretold by the mouth of David concerning Judas, who became a guide to those who arrested Jesus. For he was counted among us and received his share in this ministry.” (Now this man acquired a field with the price of his wickedness, and falling headlong, he burst open in the middle and all his intestines gushed out. And it became known to all the residents of Jerusalem; as a result that field was called Hakeldama in their own language, that is, Field of Blood.) “For it is written in the book of Psalms:

‘May his residence be made desolate,
And may there be none living in it’;
and,

‘May another take his office.’ Therefore it is necessary that of the men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us—beginning with the baptism of John until the day that He was taken up from us—one of these must become a witness with us of His resurrection.” So they put forward two men, Joseph called Barsabbas (who was also called Justus), and Matthias. And they prayed and said, “You, Lord, who know the hearts of all people, show which one of these two You have chosen to occupy this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside to go to his own place.” And they drew lots for them, and the lot fell to Matthias; and he was added to the eleven apostles."

The replacement/succession of the apostle Judas of Kerioth with Matthias is apostolic succession.

"They" had no authority in scripture for fulfill scripture. Only Jesus fulfills scripture. You have a false gospel. If it were not for Paul, there would not be a church in Rome.

 

[shepherdsword]

Jesus formed a hierarchy when He chose His successors, gave them authority, and accumulated believers.

Acts 1:15-26 – the first thing Peter does after Jesus ascends into Heaven is implement apostolic succession. Matthias is ordained with full apostolic authority. Only the Christian (Catholic) Church can demonstrate an unbroken apostolic lineage to the apostles in union with Peter through the sacrament of ordination and thereby claim to teach with Christ’s own authority. See subsequent posts (#2—#9).

This "hierarchy" as you call it is nothing but the teaching of demons called "The doctrine of Nicolaitans"(Rev 2) It stems from the greek words "Nicol" meaning to conquer and "laity" the people. It suppresses the body of Christ and promotes one man showmanship. It comes from the pit of hell and is in violation of this principle of the kingdom

Mk 10:42-45
But Jesus called them to Himself and said to them, "You know that those who are considered rulers over the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great ones exercise authority over them. 43 Yet it shall not be so among you; but whoever desires to become great among you shall be your servant. 44 And whoever of you desires to be first shall be slave of all. 45 For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many."

 

[Origen]

"They" had no authority in scripture for fulfill scripture. Only Jesus fulfills scripture. You have a false gospel. If it were not for Paul, there would not be a church in Rome.

All I did was give you an example of apostolic succession. Don't overthink.

 

[Origen]

All the Apostles were given this insight. It was not given to Peter exclusively.

Again, regarding Matt. 16:18-18 though, Jesus said to Peter, "And I tell you that you are Peter [...] I will give you the keys of the kingdom of Heaven".

 

[Rockerduck]

All I did was give you an example of apostolic succession. Don't overthink.

there is no such thing, except on paper, apostolic succession. If Apostles were in succession, with the power of the Apostles, there would be a need for a hospital. Yet many, many others were and are given the gifts of the Holy Spirt to heal, but pope can touch thousands and nobody is healed.

 

[Rockerduck]

Again, regarding Matt. 16:18-18 though, Jesus said to Peter, "And I tell you that you are Peter [...] I will give you the keys of the kingdom of Heaven".

Guess what? If you are born again from above through saving Grace of God through Jesus Christ. You can have the keys to heaven too.

 

[Mink57]

Ya that is true....but we do not want to go through the history of that because it is worse than a horror flick. Let stick with the modern Catholic Church. Love the Catholics. But just like any denomination they have their problems. Part of the Catholic Church’s problem is its size and bureaucracy. Sure they have had centuries to come up with religious customs and ceremonies but the one thing that is killing them is the requirement for celibacy for the clergy….It is simply unnatural in the way that God intended. They live their lives denying all the sexual misconducts and loose money in the courts and reputations.

I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree with you there.

First of all, the requirement for celibacy is NOT universal among Catholic priests. Priests are allowed to marry in the Eastern Rite. Also, some dispensations are given to priests who want to join the order who are already married.

We can't say that living a celibate life is "unnatural" as Jesus certainly didn't see it that way. Matthew 19:10-12: "10His disciples say to him, If the case of the man be so with his wife, it is not good to marry. 11But he said to them, All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given. 12For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it."

Obviously, in Jesus' eyes, some people (not only men), can choose to live a celibate life in order to dedicate themselves to glory of God without the distractions that married life can yield.

Paul also recognized this in 1 Corinthians 7.

So, I wouldn't say that it's "unnatural" to live a celibate life, nor is it impossible to do so.....but that it's uncommon.

The molestations that occurred between the clergy and children would have happened even if those men had been married and having regular relations with a spouse.

 

[Origen]

Guess what? If you are born again from above through saving Grace of God through Jesus Christ. You can have the keys to heaven too.

To who else in Scripture did Jesus say, "I will give you the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven"? Only Peter and yet he obviously won't be the only believer in Heaven. Therefore, your interpretation of what Jesus meant isn't what you think.

 

[shepherdsword]

To who else in Scripture did Jesus say, "I will give you the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven"? Only Peter and yet he obviously won't be the only believer in Heaven. Therefore, your interpretation of what Jesus meant isn't what you think.

The key to the Kingdom is given to all that recognize that Jesus is the Christ.

 

[Origen]

The key to the Kingdom is given to all that recognize that Jesus is the Christ.

To who else in Scripture did Jesus say, "I will give you the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven"? Only Peter and yet he obviously won't be the only believer in Heaven. Therefore, your interpretation of what Jesus meant isn't what you think.

 

[Mink57]

Evidence of Peter's primacy:

• All of the Twelve Apostles are listed four times in the Scriptures, and St. Peter is named first every time ( Mt 10:2-4, Mk 3:16-19, Lk 6:14-16, Acts 1:13).
• St. Peter was chosen by the Father to receive the revelation that Jesus is “the Christ, the son of the living God” (Mt 16:15-16).
• The angel told the women after the Resurrection, “Go, tell his disciples and Peter that he is going before you” (Mk 16:7).
• St. Peter is listed separately as a witness to the Resurrection before the other Apostles (cf. 1 Cor 15:5-6, Lk 24:34).
• St. Peter is charged by Christ to “strengthen your brethren” (Lk 22:31-32) and “feed my sheep” (Jn 21:5-17; cf. 10:11).
• St. Peter proposed and presided over the election of St. Matthias as an Apostle and announced the requirements for candidacy (cf. Acts 1:15-22).
• St. Peter was the first to preach the Gospel on the day of Pentecost, which was accompanied by signs of the Holy Spirit (wind, fire, tongues) and 3000 conversions (cf. Acts 2:14-40).
• St. Peter defended the Apostles before the Sanhedrin (cf. Acts 3:6-7, 5:15, 9:36-41).
• St. Peter exercised his authority to discipline Ananias, Sapphira, and Simon the magician (cf. Acts 5:1-11, 8:18-24).
• St Peter received the vision of the Lord in order to inspire the Jewish Christians to allow Gentiles into the Church (cf. Acts 10:9-48, 11:1-18).

Primacy of Peter – On What Scriptural Basis do Catholics Believe in the Papacy? – St Patrick Parish

stpatricksjaffrey.com

 

[Rockerduck]

To who else in Scripture did Jesus say, "I will give you the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven"? Only Peter and yet he obviously won't be the only believer in Heaven. Therefore, your interpretation of what Jesus meant isn't what you think.

That was before Pentecost. Then everyone chosen by Christ to receive the Holly Spirit have the keys. Without the Holy Spirit you will;,,,,,,, let's say, stop, drop, and roll won't work where you'll end up.

 

[Origen]

Then everyone chosen by Christ to receive the Holly Spirit have the keys.

Where's that said in Scripture? Nowhere, and thus your interpretation of what Jesus said specifically to Peter is inaccurate.

 

[shepherdsword]

To who else in Scripture did Jesus say, "I will give you the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven"? Only Peter and yet he obviously won't be the only believer in Heaven. Therefore, your interpretation of what Jesus meant isn't what you think.

You are using circular reasoning. The key to the Kingdom is eternal life. All believers have it.