Infant Baptism is not given in scripture.

[Dash RipRock]

Agreed but wouldnt that include the popes?

Yes, all the catholic popes claimed to be anointed of God claiming that the false doctrine they espouse is from God but what they really mean is that they speak in behalf of the god of this world - the devil.

 

[Searcher]

Yes, all the catholic popes claimed to be anointed of God claiming that the false doctrine they espouse is from God but what they really mean is that they speak in behalf of the god of this world - the devil.

Some TV preachers too I suppose.

 

[Josho]

Why not go to God's Word and see what the Lord says?

Well the Catechism shows these things from a Catholic viewpoint, too often Christians from other denominations are quick to make their judgements about them.

Interesting what I quoted from the Catechism seems to support going down into the water and rising out of the water.

Here is what the Bible says on baptism.

Matthew 3:13-17

Then Jesus came from Galilee to John at the Jordan to be baptized by him. And John tried to prevent Him, saying, “I need to be baptized by You, and are You coming to me?” But Jesus answered and said to him, “Permit it to be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Then he allowed Him. When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him. And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, 'This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.'

Acts 8:36-38

Now as they went down the road, they came to some water. And the eunuch said, “See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?” Then Philip said, 'If you believe with all your heart, you may.' And he answered and said, 'I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.' So he commanded the chariot to stand still. And both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and he baptized him.

Romans 6:3-6

Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin.

 

[Seeding Loving]

.

am I understanding correctly to say that a little baby cannot be free from the guilt of Original Sin unless that baby is baptized in Roman Catholic Baptism ?

and once the baby is baptized, how has the relief of guilt and feeling or being guilty of Original Sin helped the baby ?


what good does it do to have a ceremony to absolve a baby feeling guilty to commemorate and act out a ceremony that """ REMOVES GUILTY SHAME """"" from the baby

the baby, once baptized no longer is guilty of Original Sin - but the truth is that the baby is still under the curse of Original Sin and will always be under this curse until they are given a heavenly body that is free of the death curse of Original Sin.



Can someone who is a Catholic please explain .... thanks, bless you

 

[Dash RipRock]

Some TV preachers too I suppose.

Actually it's the majority of preachers and churches now that are deceiving people

Well the Catechism shows these things from a Catholic viewpoint

That's the mistake right there, seeing things from some other view point other than the Lord's point of view

The catholics teaching things Jesus and His Apostles did not teach.

So one must decide to follow Jesus, or what some religious social club thinks is right not being based on what Jesus taught.

the baby, once baptized no longer is guilty of Original Sin

False doctrine, not found in scripture.

 

[Seeding Loving]

I have had a number of Roman Catholica friends in the past, sometimes I would go to their Church and they would even go to my Church

In the very beginning the Catholic friend would come to visit me often and ask me to come with them to Church, at first I felt as if i should not go with them but as time went by my friend continually asked and almost in a passionate way kept asking again and again

So, I went to Catholic Church with my friend which I honestly really did not want to go but because it was a good friend who I really cared about I went.

I often have conversations with Catholics online in message forums such as this type of forum, I was reading a Catholic message about the Apocryphal Book Of (Tobit 12:8, 9

noticing one comment saying ⇝ "" almsgiving saves one from death and expiates every sin. .. (Tobit 12:8, 9

also

I do know that Catholicism teaches that Catholic Mass or celebrating the sacrifice of Christ is also expiation of sin ⍅

the Eucharist also expiates every sin


This is all so confusing when I try to imagine exactly what Catholics consider expiation of sin

almsgiving - expiates every sin ∞∞∞∞∞∞ the Eucharist also expiates every sin

if these methods are expiating every sin - why would we even need to have " infant baptism "

-➣ that no matter how much money an infants little hands are guided by a parent to place in Catholic Treasury

-➣ and no matter how much Eucharist bread is stuffed into a little infants mouth - - should the infant suddenly pass away, would the little infant be still guilty of sin and cursed to suffer in damnation of purgatory and punishment


Should it pass away suddenly without the expiation of " infant baptism "

I have not had much response from Catholic discussion on the subject of the apocrypha - but the truth is that the apocrypha are not the sayings or words of a prophet - nor written by a prophet.


does not basically the Catholic Faith teach that the Jews during the apocrypha era are living lives that are distancing themselves away from God and moving away from God and living lives that bring their soon oncoming destruction ,

and at during the very exact and precise time that the apocrypha are written - this is time when the Jews were withdrawing themselves away from following the Laws and Commandments and relying upon man made apocryphal methods to expiate sin. ?


should it not be the reversal - to keep away and distance oneself from the apocrypha era and learn from the error of the apocrypha way of living - in distancing ones self away from God

and stay with the scriptures that are the literal words of Prophets and the teaching of Jesus ?

 

[Seeding Loving]

.
its just that the idea of stuffing bread into an infants mouth to remove sin

or even the parent taking the infants little hands and guiding its little hands to place money into a Catholic money box

the little innocent feller has no idea what is happening - is this not the same with infant baptism.

 

[Dash RipRock]

I do know that catholicism teaches that catholic mass or celebrating the sacrifice of Christ is also expiation of sin ⍅

the Eucharist also expiates every sin

That's false doctrine as their "mass" does not wash away anybody's sin.

These people believe they can openly and freely live in sin doing all manner of evil in their lives and all they have to do is swing by a "mass" and be free from the consequences of their sin.

When they die someday they will be shocked to find themselves in hell for rejecting what God teaches in His Word

 

[BreadOfLife]

That's false doctrine as their "mass" does not wash away anybody's sin.

These people believe they can openly and freely live in sin doing all manner of evil in their lives and all they have to do is swing by a "mass" and be free from the consequences of their sin.

When they die someday they will be shocked to find themselves in hell for rejecting what God teaches in His Word

WRONG - the Church doesn’t teach this. Why would you make this false alim??

We must strive to NOT live a life of sin – although, as flawed human beings, we stumble from time to time. We say prayers of repentance and ask for forgiveness for sins at every Mass.

Are YOU saying that God refuses to forgive us??

 

[Dash RipRock]

We say prayers of repentance and ask for forgiveness for sins at every Mass

You all have to because you all live in sin walking in darkness continually.

So do your protestant counter parts who also teach God created all to be sinners and we can't help but sin everyday in thought word and deed.

Sadly you will find out first hand in the end what happens to those that do not obey the Gospel.

 

[BreadOfLife]

You all have to because you all live in sin walking in darkness continually.

So do your protestant counter parts who also teach God created all to be sinners and we can't help but sin everyday in thought word and deed.

Sadly you will find out first hand in the end what happens to those that do not obey the Gospel.

Ahhh - you're one of those pople who claim they have NO sin.
Here's what the Bible sayd about YOU . . .
1 John 1:8
If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

James tells his Christian readers to "Confess yoiur SINS" (James 5:16).

Study the Scripures in CONTEXT . . .

 

[Searcher]

I sin everyday. By word or thought. Why? Because im a sinner. I dont need a priest to tell me to say a hail Mary to be forgiven. I go directly to God the Father. You see, Jesus fixed it for me.Praise his name.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I sin everyday. By word or thought. Why? Because im a sinner. I dont need a priest to tell me to say a hail Mary to be forgiven. I go directly to God the Father. You see, Jesus fixed it for me.Praise his name.

Jesus preached the following to the leaders of His Church – NOT to the crowds:

Matt 16:19, Matt. 18:18
I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. WHATEVER YOU BIND on earth shall be bound in heaven; and WHATEVER YOU LOOSE on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

John 20:21-23
Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent ME, so I send YOU.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the holy Spirit. Whose sins YOU FORGIVE are forgiven them, and whose sins YOU RETAIN are retained.”

 

[Searcher]

Jesus preached the following to the leaders of His Church – NOT to the crowds:

Matt 16:19, Matt. 18:18
I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. WHATEVER YOU BIND on earth shall be bound in heaven; and WHATEVER YOU LOOSE on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

John 20:21-23
Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent ME, so I send YOU.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the holy Spirit. Whose sins YOU FORGIVE are forgiven them, and whose sins YOU RETAIN are retained.”

Apostalic succession is a catholic myth. Besides, I need someone to show me scripture where Peter was ever in Rome.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Apostalic succession is a catholic myth.

I take it you're NOT a Bible-believer?

Acts 1:20
“For it is written in the Book of Psalms, “‘May his camp become desolate, and let there be no one to dwell in it’; and “‘Let another take his office.’

2 Tim. 2:2
“…and what you have heard from me in the presence of many witnesses entrust to faithful men, who will be able to teach others also.”

Besides, I need someone to show me scripture where Peter was ever in Rome.

In 1 Peter 5:13, Peter says say that he is writing from "Babylon," a first century code-word for pagan Rome,

 

[Searcher]

I take it you're NOT a Bible-believer?

Acts 1:20
“For it is written in the Book of Psalms, “‘May his camp become desolate, and let there be no one to dwell in it’; and “‘Let another take his office.’

2 Tim. 2:2
“…and what you have heard from me in the presence of many witnesses entrust to faithful men, who will be able to teach others also.”

In 1 Peter 5:13, Peter says say that he is writing from "Babylon," a first century code-word for pagan Rome,

So its my understanding that its the catholic church that actually forgives sin. The priest is just middle man Did you find anything in scripture about Peter ever being in Rome? How about Mary's assumption? You see, I didnt reject the catholic religion without checking it out a bit. Do catholics speak in tongues? The apostles did.

 

[BreadOfLife]

So its my understanding that its the catholic church that actually forgives sin. The priest is just middle man

What part of Jesus' following words are you having difficulty with:

Is it:
Matt 16:18-19, 18:18
I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. WHATEVER YOU BIND on earth shall be bound in heaven; and WHATEVER YOU LOOSE on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

Or is it:
John 20:21-23
Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent ME, so I send YOU.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the holy Spirit. Whose sins YOU FORGIVE are forgiven them, and whose sins YOU RETAIN are retained.”

Did you find anything in scripture about Peter ever being in Rome?

I already showed you in post #175, (1 Peter 5:13).

How about Mary's assumption? You see, I didnt reject the catholic religion without checking it out a bit.

First of all - Mary was ALIVE when the the NT was being written.
However - we see evidence of her boldily presence in Rev. 12.

Rev. 12:1.
“A great sign appeared in the sky, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars. “

Verse 2 says: “She was with child and wailed aloud in pain as she labored to give birth.”

We know that this child is Jesus because in verse 4, we read: "She gave birth to a son, a male child, destined to rule all the nations with an iron rod.”

She is the ONLY person described in Revelation as having a body in Heaven.

Do catholics speak in tongues? The apostles did.

That depends on what you mean by "tongues".

Many scholars agree that the "tongues" spoken of in Acts wasn't a case of a strange language - but that the people were able to understand them oin their OWN language (Acts 2:7-11).
.

You see, I didnt reject the catholic religion without checking it out a bit.

Apparently, you DID . . .

 

[Searcher]

Yes I know what is said by the RCC. The woman in Rev is Mary now called the Queen of Heaven. I have read enough to reject mariology. Scott Hahn spins a pretty good tale other than you have to accept one thing to build on the rest of his tale step by step. The pope is the vicar of Christ? Was the Borgia pope the vicar of Christ? He is just one of many sadistic popes. Your fingers will get tired to no avail trying to make me believe anything the RCC says.

 

[Marymog]

Yes, don't listen to the cousin of the uncle of the brother of the friend of one of the apostles. Listen only to the original as recorded in scripture.

Ummmm.....They, the students of the Apostles, weren't "the cousin of the uncle of the brother of the friend of one of the apostles".......Such a silly statement. I can see you are not serious.

When you say that you "choose to follow the scriptures" what you are really saying is that you have your interpretation of Scripture 2,000 years after they were written. Your write down and preach YOUR interpretation and feel in your tummy that your interpretation is the truth OR you follow the teachings of some other Protestant man.

I and The Church choose the writings of the students of the Apostles aka Apostolic Fathers over your 2,000 year after the fact writings/teachings.

But I am wasting my time because you are not serious about your own Christian history and in your vanity, you will be lost..........

 

[Marymog]

It's no theory, that's what the scriptures say, which we can't enhance or augment as you're suggesting. You do know there were other apostles right, besides Matthias who replaced Judas, and Paul? Barnabas and Apollos. The Bible does say Barnabas and Saul (Paul) were, set apart, called out by God but doesn't say how Apollos apostleship came into being, but does refer to him too as an apostle.

Thanks for joining the convo DJT.

Yes, it is a theory that the Apostles and their successors didn't decide and or vote on their replacements.

Paul to Timothy: “What you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also” That means Timothy succeeded Paul and the men that Timothy taught succeeded him.

I could go on and on with other quotes from scripture and historical Christian documents that prove you wrong, but I know I am just wasting my time with you because you are not a serious thinker or historical thinker or biblical thinker (learner = thinker). You only parrot others..........