Already Delivered

[Dan Clarkston]

And let's no forget...

Proverbs 28:13
He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

Galatians 6:7-8 (see Gen 8:22)
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

It is evident that one must confess AND forsake their sin in order for the Lord to have mercy on them after they have sinned.

To say otherwise is to say God can be mocked, what we sow is not what we reap... if we sow to the flesh we do not reap corruption (no longer in right standing) and if we sow to the spirit we don't reap life (the opposite of Galatians 6:7-8)

Those in the OSAS camp have been deceived to believe the opposite of Galatians 6:7-8 because they claim when one sows to the flesh they do not reap corruption therefore in their view God can be mocked as OSAS is a mockery of the Lord.

The OSAS peoples even claim the Holy Spirit never convicts us of sin as though when a Christian sins the Holy Spirit would never lead them to confess and forsake their sin which of course is not what God's Word says.

 

[marks]

Those in the OSAS camp have been deceived to believe the opposite of Galatians 6:7-8 because they claim when one sows to the flesh they do not reap corruption therefore in their view God can be mocked as OSAS is a mockery of the Lord.

The OSAS peoples even claim the Holy Spirit never convicts us of sin as though when a Christian sins the Holy Spirit would never lead them to confess and forsake their sin which of course is not what God's Word says.

Your words here speak for themselves in how you misrepresent OSAS views. This makes a certain showing of your presentation as patently false, and your pejoratives towards others unfounded, and inappropriate.

Would this be considered "unintentional"? Or do you consider what you write before you post?

You need not answer to me, of course!

Much love!

 

[Dan Clarkston]

Your words here speak for themselves in how you misrepresent OSAS views

Of course proponents of false OSAS doctrine like to tickle people's ears by putting lipstick on this pig.

The Lord delivered me out of a church I attended for several years that taught OSAS and they taught the things I'm speaking of and play videos from well kn ow preachers who were proponents of false OSAS doctrine.

I never believed in it but never realized it was false doctrine until the Lord started opening my eyes years ago to their twisting of scripture and their lies about all future sins are already forgiven and no need to ask for forgiveness if we sin because we're already been forgiven.

This all started explaining why quite a few people in the church were engaging is sinful behavior and were popular in the church because they had been taught that there is no sin anymore, it's all been done away with and so they have no problem doing sinful stuff.

They had one guy who's wife was on the board who was a dope smoker for years and he drank the booze too! The "pastors" celebrated this guy as a fine upstanding Christian just because he was seemingly a nice guy and he did construction work and would occasionally helps church members with house repairs. It was nuts.

But, that's how the OSAS peoples roll. Charles Stanley said if you commit adultery or murder someone it's no problem because those sins are already forgiven! Gnarly Charlie was considered to be the leading authority on eternal security teaching before he croaked

So keep putting lipstick on the pig all you want, but don't expect me to fall for the OSAS deception.

 

[Behold]

So a person can get born again and continue living in sin, knowing they are in sin, and their slate is all clean then right?

If the person is born again, then they are now "born again" into the Kingdom of God.

God, has performed a spiritual circumcision, Colossians 2:11..///.whereby the Born again Spirit and the 'old man of sin" are divided.
This is why Paul says to "reckon the old man, dead".

Now, the born again Spirit, who is the actual CHRISTian, "new creation"... is no longer "under the law".

So, not being under the Law, "but under Grace'....... The Law can't define you as a sinner, or your deeds as sin.

This means that in the KOG< the born again..= the "new creation in Christ" exist here...

= "As Jesus is, so are the born again, in THIS World".

and here.

= "where there is no LAW... there is no TRANSGRESSION (sin)."

The born again, exist as a new creation in Christ, in the KOG< and there is no Moses Law or 10 Commandments found there.

When the believer is able to come to this revelation i just taught, they are coming into this MIND.....= "as many as be perfect"... .and Paul means... you have "worked out your Salvation".. you have entered the revelation that is to understand how to exist by Right Faith, in your Salvation.

See, most christians never learn how to correctly. exist inside this Grace of God, that is Salvation.. as you do this by understanding who you have become "IN CHRIST", as a "new Creation".

 

[Dan Clarkston]

Now, the born again Spirit, who is the actual CHRISTian, "new creation"...

I figured the gnostic stuff would come out eventually.

The fake gospel that says a man can live in sin in his flesh but he is still saved because his spirit and his flash are not the same guy

Criminals try that shtick in court too and it doesn't wash and it won't wash on judgement days before the Lord.

 

[PS95]

Hi, I would need to generalize your reply a bit to figure out what you are trying to say. Thanks.

I'm sorry . I thought it was self explanatory.

 

[PS95]

But, that's how the OSAS peoples roll. Charles Stanley said if you commit adultery or murder someone it's no problem because those sins are already forgiven! Gnarly Charlie was considered to be the leading authority on eternal security teaching before he croaked

So keep putting lipstick on the pig all you want, but don't expect me to fall for the OSAS deception.

I've heard him preach. Do you have a quote or proof of that? It sounds really insane to be teaching people that!

 

[Behold]

I figured the gnostic stuff would come out eventually.

"Gnostic Stuff"?

True Gnostics, as defined by the teaching of The Father of Gnosticism.. (was he named in the video), by the person who made the video who does not understand God's Grace or God's Salvation??????
Well let me help you @Dan Clarkston ..
The Father of Gnosticism "Valentinus" taught that there is no such thing as sin, so there is no need for Christ on The Cross.

I teach that "all have sinned" and the only rememdy for your sin, is found ON THE Cross of Christ.

See if you can figure that out...

Now...Notice where this is located.. and notice who wrote this verse.

Paul is not a "Gnostic".
-
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a New Creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things have become new.
ASV
Wherefore if any man is in Christ, he is a new creature: the old things are passed away; behold, they are become new.
AMP

Therefore if any person is [ingrafted] in Christ (the Messiah) he is a NEW Creation (a new creature altogether); the old [previous moral and spiritual condition] has passed away. Behold, the fresh and new has come!
BRG
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
CSB
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a NEW Creation; the old has passed away, and see, the new has come!
CEB
So then, if anyone is in Christ, that person is part of the new creation. The old things have gone away, and look, new things have arrived!
CJB
Therefore, if anyone is united with the Messiah, he is a NEW Creation — the old has passed; look, what has come is fresh and new!
CEV
Anyone who belongs to Christ is a new person. The past is forgotten, and everything is new.
DARBY
So if any one [be] in Christ, [there is] a new creation; the old things have passed away; behold all things have become new:
DLNT
So then if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old things passed-away; behold, new things have come-into-being.
DRA
If then any be in Christ a new creature, the old things are passed away, behold all things are made new.
ERV
When anyone is in Christ, it is a whole new world. The old things are gone; suddenly, everything is new!
EASY
When anyone belongs to Christ, they become a new person. Their old way of life has gone. Their new life has begun!
EHV
So then, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away. The new has come!
ESV
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.
ESVUK

 

[David Lamb]

So a person can get born again and continue living in sin, knowing they are in sin, and their slate is all clean then right?

Being forgiven does not mean that the forgiven person can continue living in sin. Paul wrote:

“What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?” (Ro 6:1-2 NKJV)

We do sin, even after being saved, but we should seek with God's help to live ever closer to the way He would have us live (sanctification). When we sin, we confess our sins, and He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins.

 

[Behold]

we confess our sins, and He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins.

Christ has died for all your sin 2000 yrs ago, or He hasn't.

See, "God hath made Jesus to BE SIN for us".. .as "The one time ETERNAL SACRIFICE... for SIN">

So, the "one time Eternal Sacrifice for sin" is applied to you, as FORGIVENESS, by God, or its not happened yet.

If itshas happened, then you dont confess sin to try to be RE-forgiven, when Jesus is the "Eternal Sacrifice for Sin"... @David Lamb .

"but what about 1 John".

What about it?
See, those Apostles were preachers ...and some verses show them preaching to the lost... Like 1 John 1.. and Hebrews 10:26.

 

[David Lamb]

Christ has died for all your sin 2000 yrs ago, or He hasn't.

See, "God hath made Jesus to BE SIN for us".. .as "The one time ETERNAL SACRIFICE... for SIN">

So, the "one time Eternal Sacrifice for sin" is applied to you, as FORGIVENESS, by God, or its not happened yet.

If itshas happened, then you dont confess sin to try to be RE-forgiven, when Jesus is the "Eternal Sacrifice for Sin"... @David Lamb .

"but what about 1 John".

What about it?
See, those Apostles were preachers ...and some verses show them preaching to the lost... Like 1 John 1.. and Hebrews 10:26.

But John's letter was addressed to Christians, not to the lost. For example, He writes:

“These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.” (1Jo 5:13 NKJV)

It is to saved people that he writes:

“If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” (1Jo 1:9 NKJV)

I agree with what you wrote about the finished work of Christ.

 

[Behold]

“If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins

All Scripture is given for instruction, doctrine, rerpoof and correction.

That does not mean, that all verses are ALL OF THOSE... and it does not mean that all verses are given to the Chirstian as talking to them, directly.

So, Paul tells us to "rightly divide the word".......we are to apply what is applicable as doctrine to ourselves and if the verse is not talking to us, then we dont apply it to ourselves as doctrine.

Let me show you a verse, and if you have a KJV, then it has the correct translation.

So, we see that John is not talking to the "little children" in 1 Jn 1:9....so, WE are the "little children" the Chrisitans......and in 1 Jn 3:9, He is talking to us.
Notice the same Apostle talking to the Christians.......2 chapters later.....and how different it is...

John's teaching shifts from......."you have sin" when talking to unbelivers .........to "you can't sin", when talking to the Christians.

So, what does it mean when he says that the Christian "can't sin".

He does not mean that you will never want to enjoy some carnal behavior.
What He's teaching is Paul Theology.

This..

Romans 4:8
2 Corin 5:19

Those verses say that God wont charge sin to a Chrisitan.........

Why not?

Because Jesus has died for our sin...........and because the Christian is "not under the Law, but under Grace".

 

[David Lamb]

All Scripture is given for instruction, doctrine, rerpoof and correction.

That does not mean, that all verses are ALL OF THOSE... and it does not mean that all verses are giving to the Chirstian as talking to them, directly.

So, Paul tells us to "rightly divide the word".......we are to apply what is applicable as doctrine to ourselves and if the verse is not talking to us, then we dont apply it to ourselves as doctrine.

Let me show you a verse, and if you have a KJV, then it has the correct translation.

So, we see that John is not talking to the "little children" in 1 Jn 1:9....so, WE are the "little children" the Chrisitans......and in 1 Jn 3:9, He is talking to us.
Notice the same Apostle talking to the Christians.......2 chapters later.....and how different it is...

John's teaching shifts from......."you have sin" when talking to unbelivers .........to "you can't sin", when talking to the Christians.

I don't want to misunderstand you, so I hope you will not mind me asking you if you believe that Christians can't sin.

 

[Behold]

I don't want to misunderstand you, so I hope you will not mind me asking you if you believe that Christians can't sin.

So, what does it mean when John says that the Christian "can't sin"., in 1 John 3:9

He does not mean that you will never want to enjoy some carnal behavior.
What He's teaching is Paul Theology.

This..

Romans 4:8
2 Corin 5:19

Those verses say that God wont charge sin to a Chrisitan.........

Why not?

Because Jesus has died for our sin...........and because the Christian is "not under the Law, but under Grace".

 

[David Lamb]

So, what does it mean when John says that the Christian "can't sin"., in 1 John 3:9

He does not mean that you will never want to enjoy some carnal behavior.
What He's teaching is Paul Theology.

This..

Romans 4:8
2 Corin 5:19

Those verses say that God wont charge sin to a Chrisitan.........

Why not?

Because Jesus has died for our sin...........and because the Christian is "not under the Law, but under Grace".

I think I agree. I only say "I think" because if you are just saying that a Christian can't be charged with sin because his/her sin was nailed to Christ's cross, then I do agree. I don't agree that Christians never sin.

 

[Behold]

I think I agree. I only say "I think" because if you are just saying that a Christian can't be charged with sin because his/her sin was nailed to Christ's cross, then I do agree. I don't agree that Christians never sin.

Lets look at WHAT defines a sinner as a sinner and their sin as sin.

Now...God does not define anyone as a sinner.

So, what does?

A.) THE LAW and the 10 Commandments.

Its the Law and 10 commandments that DEFINE our deeds as : "against God's law" or "breaking the 10 commandments".

Now, what happens if the Law and the 10 Commandments can no longer define you, at all?

1.) """Christ is the END of THE LAW (commandments also) for everyone who BELIEVES::" = is born again.

2.) "Christ has redeemed (the born again) from the CURSE of THE LAW (and the 10 commandments)".

So, what is the CURSE of the Law and the 10 Commandments, ????? as Paul also defines the 10 commandments as the "ministry of death, engraven in stones".

So, the CURSE of all this, is that they can DEFINE YOU as being A SINNER, and that is a "curse" upon every person.

So, Jesus's Sacrifice has = "redeemed (the born again) from the Curse of the Law".

How?

A.) The born again....."Are NOT UNDER THE LAW......but under GRACE"..

"Grace" is now the dominion over the born again Christian.
God's Grace now only defines us as "made righteous".. "eternally forgiven"... having become "the Righteousness of GOD... in Christ"..

See......... the Cross is a "divine exchange"..... where Jesus takes all our sin, and the judgement due us all..... and also removes the Law, and the Born again receive..... as God's "GIFT">.

= "the Gift of Righteousness"". .

= "The Gift of Salvation"..

= and "The Gift of Eternal life".

The born again.......now exist in the KOG...........here.....

AA) """"where there is no LAW... there is no SIN (Transgression).""

So....This is why Romans 4:8 and 2 Corn 5:19.. say that "God was in Christ not Charging SIN".. anymore, regarding every again Christian.

This does not mean we are never going to make a mistake or never again choose to do something that is carnal..

It means that there is no LAW or 10 Commandments as dominion over us anymore..., that would be able us ever again as a SINNER before God.

Its all GONE.........because "Christ is the END OF THE LAW, for Righteousness, to everyone who BELIEVES" (Is born again)

The born again are "NOT under the LAW.....but under Grace"..

The Born exist here.........."Where there is NO LAW there is no SIN (Transgression found)""

Welcome To : Salvation.......its a GIFT.

Now, to understand this.... is to understand "the LIBERTY that is IN CHRIST"..

And Paul says...>>"now that you understand that God wont charge sin to you.......do not use this LIBERTY.......this understanding........to go out and live in carnality"..

 

[PS95]

Lets look at WHAT defines a sinner as a sinner and their sin as sin.

Now...God does not define anyone as a sinner.

So, what does?

A.) THE LAW and the 10 Commandments.

Its the Law and 10 commandments that DEFINE our deeds as : "against God's law" or "breaking the 10 commandments".

Now, what happens if the Law and the 10 Commandments can no longer define you, at all?

1.) """Christ is the END of THE LAW (commandments also) for everyone who BELIEVES::" = is born again.

2.) "Christ has redeemed (the born again) from the CURSE of THE LAW (and the 10 commandments)".

So, what is the CURSE of the Law and the 10 Commandments, ????? as Paul also defines the 10 commandments as the "ministry of death, engraven in stones".

So, the CURSE of all this, is that they can DEFINE YOU as being A SINNER, and that is a "curse" upon every person.

So, Jesus's Sacrifice has = "redeemed (the born again) from the Curse of the Law".

How?

A.) The born again....."Are NOT UNDER THE LAW......but under GRACE"..

"Grace" is now the dominion over the born again Christian.
God's Grace now only defines us as "made righteous".. "eternally forgiven"... having become "the Righteousness of GOD... in Christ"..

See......... the Cross is a "divine exchange"..... where Jesus takes all our sin, and the judgement due us all..... and also removes the Law, and the Born again receive..... as God's "GIFT">.

= "the Gift of Righteousness"". .

= "The Gift of Salvation"..

= and "The Gift of Eternal life".

The born again.......now exist in the KOG...........here.....

AA) """"where there is no LAW... there is no SIN (Transgression).""

So....This is why Romans 4:8 and 2 Corn 5:19.. say that "God was in Christ not Charging SIN".. anymore, regarding every again Christian.

This does not mean we are never going to make a mistake or never again choose to do something that is carnal..

It means that there is no LAW or 10 Commandments as dominion over us anymore..., that would be able us ever again as a SINNER before God.

Its all GONE.........because "Christ is the END OF THE LAW, for Righteousness, to everyone who BELIEVES" (Is born again)

The born again are "NOT under the LAW.....but under Grace"..

The Born exist here.........."Where there is NO LAW there is no SIN (Transgression found)""

Welcome To : Salvation.......its a GIFT.

Now, to understand this.... is to understand "the LIBERTY that is IN CHRIST"..

And Paul says...>>"now that you understand that God wont charge sin to you.......do not use this LIBERTY.......this understanding........to go out and live in carnality"..

Behold,
O course we are not under the law. We agree there. We But we do have a command to love one another. Do we not?
What do you do when you break that command? Or do you always keep it? Do you always treat others as you want to be treated? Or are you just saved and have nothing to obey in the Spirit?

 

[Dan Clarkston]

We do sin, even after being saved

Normalizing sin with statements like this causes many to believe it's normal to continue in sinful behavior.

People need to be made aware of the warnings God gives concerning those that walk after the flesh.

Care to share any of these warnings, or do you even know these warnings exist in God;'s Word???

So, what does it mean when John says that the Christian "can't sin"., in 1 John 3:9

When an actual Christian is faced with opportunity to do something sinful their response is "I can't do that!"

It does not mean a Christian cannot choose to override the leading of the Holy Spirit within and decide to go ahead and sin.

Those that claim it's not possible for a Christian to sin are lying, which is a sin.

"Gnostic Stuff"?

OSAS is "Gnostic Stuff" as the Word of God does not actually teach we can never ever lose our salvation.

In fact there are warnings in God's Word about losing salvation the OSAS peoples ignore and try to explain away making themselves to be fools who reject the whole counsel of the Lord.

 

[PS95]

Hi, I would need to generalize your reply a bit to figure out what you are trying to say. Thanks.

When I read this OP and your other thread- together those gave me the impression that you are saying once we are forgiven our sins by accepting the gift of God's grace in Jesus-- we are always just forgiven any further sins and have no need to ever confess our sins. While I agree with you that we will be forgiven our sins when sincere and repent- I can not agree that we should just take forgiveness as given without confession and repentance. There's a fine line here and I am not quite sure how to make you see what I'm saying. My concern is the impression you are giving.

To give the impression that all of our sins are freely forgiven no matter what can lead to a disaster with those who do not understand, those who are not saved yet, or those who are young in the faith. It gives the impression that sin doesn't matter. We know it does..
While yes, as a born again believer we are shown our sins and urged by the Spirit not to sin and convicted of sin when we slip- and we know there is forgiveness in Jesus as the Holy Spirit is our comforter and helper~~ but I am simply cautioning that confession of sins and turning away is just as vital. Too many seem to be saying sins don't matter-- they do matter.
Shall we not confess and turn away-- should we wait to confess when we become sick? That's what I pointed you to James. Both Paul and James suggested that our sins can cause illness. Paul spoke about partaking unworthily-- they were drunk and being selfish, not discerning the Lord's body. We need to read all of the scriptures. Agree?
We should not ignore that. Confessing sins is taught..

James 5
Is anyone among you suffering? Then he must pray. Is anyone cheerful? He is to sing praises. 14 Is anyone among you sick? Then he must call for the elders of the church and they are to pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord; 15 and the prayer offered in faith will restore the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up, and if he has committed sins, they will be forgiven him.
16 Therefore, confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another so that you may be healed. The effective prayer of a righteous man can accomplish much. 17 Elijah was a man with a nature like ours, and he prayed earnestly that it would not rain, and it did not rain on the earth for three years and six months. 18 Then he prayed again, and the sky poured rain and the earth produced its fruit.

19 My brethren, if any among you strays from the truth and one turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

I've heard him preach. Do you have a quote or proof of that? It sounds really insane to be teaching people that!

In his book, Eternal Security, Stanley says

"Even if a believer for all practical purposes becomes an unbeliever, his salvation is not in jeopardy” (Chapter 10, p. 93)

“Christ will not deny an unbelieving Christian his or her salvation because to do so would be to deny Himself” (p. 94).

“Believers who lose or abandon their faith will retain their salvation, for God remains faithful” (p. 94)


He actually taught one can be a "gay christian" and still go to Heaven proving he is a false teacher!

Here's a video where you can see video of Charlies saying this (just a few minutes into the video)

Can a Person Live a Life of Sin and Remain Saved?

Once Saved, Always Saved?
Video that addresses false claims made by Chales Stanley