Was judas Iscariot used by Satan ??

[Lambano]

predetermined plan Is not in the original text, that has been added.

Actually, yes it is in the original text.

2:23 τοῦτον τῇ ὡρισμένῃ βουλῇ καὶ προγνώσει τοῦ θεοῦ ἔκδοτον λαβόντες διὰ χειρῶν ἀνόμων προσπήξαντες ἀνείλετε

Horizo: determined, decreed, ordained.
Boule: plan, will

So, it was the plan all along that Jesus would be betrayed. "Judas, being Judas, could do no other." How can we still say that Judas was morally culpable for his actions when he was following God's preordained will? Does anyone else find this unsettling?

 

[Lambano]

Some think satan is one of God's employees ...

Yep. I've heard that. "God's lackey" is the phrase used. Notice that in Job 1:6 and 2:1, Satan has full access to God but has to ask God's permission to do bad stuff to Job? And in 1 Kings 22:21-23, God accepts the recommendation of a "lying spirit" to put falsehoods in the mouths of the prophets. Ever wonder why God keeps "lying spirits" lying around?

What isn't subject to God's sovereignty? All I can say is that we'd better hope God is sovereign over Satan. Otherwise, this whole ballgame is still in doubt.

 

[Hiddenthings]

It would seem clear to me that Judas Iscariot was used by Satan.

Depends on how open you are to the truth.
You know it was Judas who made his own decision, and his hardening was beyond change.
Christians can be so naive to believe in an evil supernatural being.
What do you think 'entered' Judas? Think about it in a more nuanced way, rather than creating a fictitious entity.

 

[Hiddenthings]

Let me assist you all.

What discussion took place in John 13 about this adversary, which you believe entered and took possession of Judas?

There is none right! Correct!

But what do we know and what is the context!

Here is the verse

"Then after he had taken the morsel, Satan entered into him. Jesus said to him, 'What you are going to do, do quickly.'"

“Then said Jesus ”

Jesus didnt say some evil spirit or entity had entered the room - crazy nonsense!

No, clearly perceiving the resolve of Judas “He (Jesus) knew what was in man.” John 2:25

Do you all believe this being is in all men

'What you are going to do, do quickly.'"

Satan = Judas's betratyal - its called satan because he has become the adversary!

Do you for a second think Jesus would attribute this act to Judas if he had a demonic being residing in him!

You all fall far short of the required wisdom to interpret the Word correctly.

What’s unfortunate is that even long after this truth is made clear, people will still post as if this fictitious being exists, a testament to the enduring gullibility of the so-called Christian.

 

[Fred J]

And God did not cause satan to do this nor did He cause Judas to choose to be open to the devil as the calvinists claim

The scripture is very clear, as Jesus fed Judas satan 'entered' him.

The Gospel have testified about people being posses by evil 'spirits' or 'legion', where Jesus cast them out.

Also about an evil spirit leaving a body and decides to come back, seeing the body empty and clean, it bring together with it more spirits and enters again. And that person, the human, become from then on worst off than before.

Shalom in the name of Jesus Christ

 

[Hiddenthings]

The scripture is very clear, as Jesus fed Judas satan 'entered' him.

No Fred, the truth is actually a long way from the imaginations of men! It's what "entered" his mind which should be your focus

The Gospel have testified about people being posses by evil 'spirits' or 'legion', where Jesus cast them out.

Also about an evil spirit leaving a body and decides to come back, seeing the body empty and clean, it bring together with it more spirits and enters again. And that person, the human, become from then on worst off than before.

Shalom in the name of Jesus Christ

Christians often overlook the cultural context of medicine in the first century. Because you have accepted their perspective and understanding you are unable to see it for what it is.

It's an easy trap to fall into.

 

[Scott Downey]

But if Satan didn't exist, there would be no sin at all. The very first sin in Eden was the result of the devil tempting Eve.

Well I agree with this, was her sin the first sin or was Satan the first one who sinned.
She was the first human who sinned.

 

[Hiddenthings]

Well I agree with this, was her sin the first sin or was Satan the first one who sinned.
She was the first human who sinned.

I believe everyone in Scripture understood the serpent in the same way Paul did in 2 Corinthians 11:3: “But I am afraid that as the serpent deceived Eve by his cunning, your thoughts will be led astray from a sincere and pure devotion to Christ.”

And this lines up with what we read in Genesis 3:1 (ESV): “Now the serpent was more crafty (cunning) than any other beast of the field that the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, ‘Did God actually say, “You shall not eat of any tree in the garden”?’

Not difficult to interpret if you are remove the imaginations of pagan philopsphers from your head!

All the cunning animal did was introduce the thinking of the flesh to Eve and she took possession of it and awaken those latent desires in her own body.

Paul understood the truth!

 

[christsavedme]

Very interesting that you brought this subject up, and GOD bless in Jesus name.

Matthew 24:
24. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

The final false Christ and false prophet will the first beast, the anti-Christ and second beast, the false prophet.

The false prophet shall show great signs and wonders from the sky in support of the first beast.

As what you've mentioned above, sadly anti-Christ will fulfill Israel's religious sect description of such physical messiah.

Very much so he'll deceive them for a 'short time' because, the son of perdition will rule over the world and it's people.

And on top of it, he'll make a peace treaty with Israel successfully, as how Jesus made with Israel prior with the Gospel unsuccessfully.

He will allow Israel's religious sect to rebuild their third Temple all along they 'wailed and long for'.

And, sacrifice according to the Law of Moses will be offered day and night in the Temple for a 'short time'.

In their Old Testament mind, he'll be thought as GOD of Moses sent, of the coming Messiah.

Israel then will rejoice and will determined that Christianity has been false and assuredly of a false messiah establishment.

They together with the first and second beast, and the ungodly world, start persecuting the true church saints worldwide.

The church that endures such 'shortened time' of the Great Tribulation until the end, shall receive a crown.

i was just compelled to witness this and peace be with you all in Jesus name.

He will allow Israel's religious sect to rebuild their third Temple all along they 'wailed and long for'.

And, sacrifice according to the Law of Moses will be offered day and night in the Temple for a 'short time'.

In their Old Testament mind, he'll be thought as GOD of Moses sent, of the coming Messiah.

Israel then will rejoice and will determined that Christianity has been false and assuredly of a false messiah establishment.

They together with the first and second beast, and the ungodly world, start persecuting the true church saints worldwide.

The church that endures such 'shortened time' of the Great Tribulation until the end, shall receive a crown.

i was just compelled to witness this and peace be with you all in Jesus name.

Hey Fred, thanks for sharing your thoughts on this. You’ve brought up a really heavy topic, and I appreciate how you’re wrestling with these ideas from Matthew 24. It’s clear you’re thinking deeply about what Scripture says regarding the end times and the challenges believers might face.

Your point about the deception of the false prophet and the anti-Christ is sobering. The Bible does warn us to stay vigilant, and I think it’s a reminder to keep our eyes fixed on Jesus, the true Messiah, and to test everything against His Word. The idea of a rebuilt temple and sacrifices being offered again is something a lot of folks discuss when they study prophecy, and it can stir up all kinds of questions about what’s to come.

One thing that stands out to me is how you mentioned the church enduring through tough times. That endurance is key, isn’t it? It reminds me of the call to hold fast to our faith, even when the world feels chaotic or deceptive. I’d encourage everyone to lean into prayer and Scripture to stay grounded—those are like anchors for our souls. Maybe we can also think about how to support each other as a community to stand firm, no matter what challenges come our way.

Peace to you too, and thanks for sparking this discussion!

 

[Fred J]

No Fred, the truth is actually a long way from the imaginations of men! It's what "entered" his mind which should be your focus

Christians often overlook the cultural context of medicine in the first century. Because you have accepted their perspective and understanding you are unable to see it for what it is.

It's an easy trap to fall into.

John 3:
11. Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.

We go by, 2 Timothy 3:16&17, which is the 'sound doctrine' from above, 'helped' by the Holy Ghost.

i disagree, you're using the wisdom of this world to 'interpret' the scripture, where only the unlearned from above and unstable, 'twist' the teaching and scriptures.

Luke 22:
3. Then entered satan into Judas ...............................................

John 13:
27. And after the sop satan entered into him. ...................................


2 Corinthians 13:
1. This is the third time I am going to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.

The witnessing of Luke and John and the Holy Ghost, their every word already been established as the 'truth'.

Apparently you don't have scripture to support your 'entered his mind' theory, therefore is a 'twist'.

 

[David Lamb]

He does exist so it's a waste of time to talk about what ifs

I agree, but I was answering a post where the poster had written: "Were it not for Satan would Judas have turned Jesus in? It appears not else Satan wouldn't have entered." I wasn't saying, "What if....?"

Actually that was just the first sin on earth.

The first sin was when lucifer rebelled against God and tried to over throw God.

I agree.

predetermined plan Is not in the original text, that has been added.

God is not the One who predetermined that Adam and Eve would sin and God did not cause Judas to betray Jesus

I didn't think I had mentioned, "predetermined plan."

And God did not cause satan to do this nor did He cause Judas to choose to be open to the devil as the calvinists claim

I have not seen Calvinists claim that God chose Judas to be open to the devil. Calvinists believe what the bible says, that unsaved sinners are slaves of sin, in other words they are in bondage to the devil.

 

[Hiddenthings]

John 3:
11. Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.

We go by, 2 Timothy 3:16&17, which is the 'sound doctrine' from above, 'helped' by the Holy Ghost.

i disagree, you're using the wisdom of this world to 'interpret' the scripture, where only the unlearned from above and unstable, 'twist' the teaching and scriptures.

Luke 22:
3. Then entered satan into Judas ...............................................

John 13:
27. And after the sop satan entered into him. ...................................


2 Corinthians 13:
1. This is the third time I am going to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.

The witnessing of Luke and John and the Holy Ghost, their every word already been established as the 'truth'.

Apparently you don't have scripture to support your 'entered his mind' theory, therefore is a 'twist'.

Fred, this is a weak example of exegesis.

Can you point me to a passage where Jesus actually teaches about this being? Show me a chapter where its origin story is explained and where Jesus explicitly warns us about its powers.

Please don’t point me to obscure verses that simply mention an adversary (Satan) or a false accuser (the devil). I’m asking for a passage where Jesus treated this as such a significant subject that he sat his disciples down and clearly taught them about this being in detail.

Now you know that I know such a teaching does not exist.

Why is that?

 

[Hiddenthings]

Have you ever considered why even the most well-versed Bible students struggle to clearly prove the existence of a supernatural evil being?

 

[Lambano]

Please don’t point me to obscure verses that simply mention an adversary (Satan) or a false accuser (the devil). I’m asking for a passage where Jesus treated this as such a significant subject that he sat his disciples down and clearly taught them about this being in detail.

Why is that a big deal? It's pretty obvious that in the narrative in which Jesus and the disciples lived, the existence of Satan and devils was already assumed. They're just part of the furniture, and you don't talk about the furniture until you stumble over a chair in the dark.

 

[Hiddenthings]

Apparently you don't have scripture to support your 'entered his mind' theory, therefore is a 'twist'.

That’s right! Jesus knew Judas would ultimately act on the betrayal already forming in his mind. He knew what was in him and the plans he had been making leading up to that moment. These were adversarial (satan) intentions Judas had been scheming for some time! It’s not as though some evil being suddenly took control of him in that instant () that idea is simply unfounded. Do you realize what you're suggesting?

The "idea" to leave Jesus and go to fulfill his desire is the Satan which entered him!

It's no different to Peter!

Matthew 16:23 (KJV) where Jesus rebukes Peter for opposing God’s plan: “But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.”

You can learn the truth Fred...just read the Bible with more care.

 

[Hiddenthings]

Why is that a big deal? It's pretty obvious that in the narrative in which Jesus and the disciples lived, the existence of Satan and devils was already assumed. They're just part of the furniture, and you don't talk about the furniture until you stumble over a chair in the dark.

If it’s that obvious, it shouldn’t be difficult for you to prove.

Be honest, Fred's post - do you think he provided any evidence?

A person has adversarial thoughts and acts on them, and you immediately cry out, “Monster!”

It’s honestly quite amusing how some of you interpret the Bible.

Maybe you are scared of the dark and the things that creep and cruel but those who understand the light need not be concerned!

 

[Hiddenthings]

@Lambano @Fred J

Even when Jesus teaches you the nature of the satan..."things of men" you still desire your pagan gods.

Matthew 16:23 (KJV) where Jesus rebukes Peter for opposing God’s plan: “But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.”

how will you learn?

 

[Lambano]

However, that does remind me of my friend at our Bible study who did not believe in Satan on the grounds that it would be irresponsible of God to allow an evil supernatural being to roam freely around the universe. If you have kids, you don't keep rattlesnakes as pets, and you don't leave loaded guns lying around the house.

I miss ol' Larry. In retrospect, dealing with some of his off-the-wall ideas helped prepare me for the internet.

 

[Fred J]

John 6:
70. Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?

Matthew 16:
23. But He turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind Me, Satan: thou art an offense unto Me: for thou savourest not the things that be of GOD, but those that be of men.

Galatians 5:
13. For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.
16. This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.
17. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

(Meaning, for one, the Holy Ghost of the New Testament initiates accordingly, 'do or say this', but the flesh 'do or say them not', but about something else on the contrary.)

19. Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these, Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20. Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21. Envying, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the Kingdom of GOD.
24. And they that are in Christ's have 'crucified' the flesh with it's affections and lusts.

Overall we're witnessing Judas and Peter acted accordingly to the flesh and to those that be of men, and Jesus calls them too devil or Satan.

Shalom in the name of Jesus Christ

Jesus called Judas a devil and Peter satan, since they were yet acting in their carnal nature and mind, and those that be of men.

Yet scripturally Peter received from GOD the FATHER revelation about Jesus as the Messiah, than Judas who continued in the same manner.

Jesus prevented satan's request from testing Peter, but as for Judas Jesus allowed satan to enter later for the betrayal take place.

Judas since the beginning probably been skeptical that Jesus is the true promised Messiah, probably not whom he pictured to be carnally.

And he also probably continued with many conflicting thoughts while serving Jesus and the Kingdom of GOD.

As a result towards the end even had the thought to betray Him and get money in return.

But Peter had no such thought, but were confused and perceive not, many of Jesus' saying and doing as the Messiah for Israel.

About Judas from the beginning Jesus was prophesying evil things of him, and even in a prayer to the FATHER that sadly he had to be lost.

For the scripture declares, satan entered into Judas, as how satan in the future enters into anti-Christ.

Both happen to be normal men, but inwardly satan is at work through them, since the truth and the things of GOD never in them.

Why did Jesus on the Cross prayed to the FATHER, 'Forgive them, they knew not what they do.'?

Because as Jesus said, 'The god of this world have blinded the minds of unbelievers.'

Shalom in the name of Jesus Christ

 

[Hiddenthings]

However, that does remind me of my friend at our Bible study who did not believe in Satan on the grounds that it would be irresponsible of God to allow an evil supernatural being to roam freely around the universe. If you have kids, you don't keep rattlesnakes as pets, and you don't leave loaded guns lying around the house.

I miss ol' Larry. In retrospect, dealing with some of his off-the-wall ideas helped prepare me for the internet.

Larry definitely had a point!

Just imagine believing that the same divine nature angels possess is what the saints will receive...and then thinking that this divine nature can sin. It’s laughable to believe that your own reward is to be given a sinful nature.

It's as though you havn't thought it through - ask more than one question and I'm certain the truth can be revealed to you.