THE CHURCH IS NOT THE BRIDE OF CHRIST

[Doug]

The issue is the language he uses debunks your ignorance--wild olive tree branches are grafted contrary to nature into the cultivated olive tree, but "how much more" will the natural olive tree branches (those who naturally belong to the cultivated olive tree--the physical descendants of Abraham Isaac and Jacob) can be grafted back into their own olive tree.

What you stated is not new as it was stated in Romans.................[Rom 11:23 KJV] 23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

 

[Doug]

Leviticus 18 "therefore the land vomits out its inhabitants"
Revelation 3 "I will vomit you out of My mouth"

Do you think you are Israel?

 

[Doug]

Why would God need to graft Gentiles into wild olive trees? The wild olive trees REPRESENT Gentile nations!

I was wrong (writing off the top of my head in these posts) the Gentiles are the wild olive tree grafted into the good olive tree
It still remains the Gentiles were grafted into Israel and could be cut off thru unbelief

 

[Doug]

Oh my, this is confusion.

What is confusing?
Did not Gentiles believe in Acts 10?
Did they not believe the preaching of Peter?
If they believed Peter they would be in the believing remnant of Israel

 

[Doug]

He speaks to us in parables brother. Allegories. That is a very important key to understanding. Israel in scripture is an allegory for the church. The promised land is an allegory TO THE CHURCH for the kingdom of heaven with Christ as its king. Scripture says "these things happened unto them (Israel) and were written down as ensamples to the church, for our admonishment" (1Cor 10:11).

God showed Abraham the land not an allegory

 

[GracePeace]

I have always said the Gentiles grafted in were not in the body of Christ but were in the believing remnant of Israel
They could be cut off as well thru unbelief

1. If the "Gentiles" referred to, here, were native to the cultivated tree, Paul would not say they are being grafted in "contrary to nature". he would say "how much more then can these branches be grafted in to their own tree?"
2. Also, again, saying the Gentiles referred to here are the same ones who made God jealous with idolatry is the same as saying the idol His people chose was YHWH--just as the idol is not God, so, also, the people are not the same people.

 

[GracePeace]

I have always said the Gentiles grafted in were not in the body of Christ but were in the believing remnant of Israel
They could be cut off as well thru unbelief

LOL What part of "one new man" don't you understand?
All of it, I guess.

 

[GracePeace]

God showed Abraham the land not an allegory

Paul says Abraham and his two wives, Hagar and Sarah, allegorically refer to the two Covenants (Gal 4:21-31).
Does that mean Paul is teaching that Abraham and his wives never existed?
LOL Of course not. Complain to Paul, not to @Lizbeth.

 

[GracePeace]

What you stated is not new as it was stated in Romans.................[Rom 11:23 KJV] 23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

You're a troll right?

 

[GracePeace]

Do you think you are Israel?

There are two Israels. "Not all Israel is Israel".
There is a physical Israel, which is in unbelief, though a remnant thereof has been saved, and then there is another Israel, which is the Israel God promises "all Israel will be saved". Paul says in Galatians 6 "the Israel of God"--in juxtaposition to the Israel which the Judaizers were trying to get the Galatians to join--consists in those who "walk by this rule", believers.

 

[GracePeace]

I was wrong (writing off the top of my head in these posts) the Gentiles are the wild olive tree grafted into the good olive tree
It still remains the Gentiles were grafted into Israel and could be cut off thru unbelief

The Gentiles referred to in Romans 11 who are grafted in through faith are honest-to-goodness non-Israel human beings who are cut off from their wild olive trees, and grafted in to the cultivated olive tree. They are not "remnant of Israel Gentiles".

 

[GracePeace]

I was wrong (writing off the top of my head in these posts) the Gentiles are the wild olive tree grafted into the good olive tree
It still remains the Gentiles were grafted into Israel and could be cut off thru unbelief

You must write off the top of your head every time you write, because you are wrong about everything you assert. Why would you do that? Just uncarefully say things? Say things with uncertainty?

 

[Marilyn C]

The body of Christ is His bride (the one mentioned in Revelation).
Just as Adam's bride was his own body, "bone of my bone, flesh of my flesh".

Read Ephesians 5, where it draws the parallel between the relationship of a husband and wife and Christ and the Church.
No man hates his own body, but nourishes and cherishes it, and, since "the two become one flesh", he should also nourish and cherish, not hate, his own body, which is his wife--just as Christ loved the Church, which is His body, His bride.

You guys who deny this are simply, for what ever reason, intentionally detaching yourselves from reality.
I really can't understand the resistance you all have to this obvious truth--it's no different, to me, than the gays who try to argue God is OK with being gay. I don't get how you all deny simple reality.

Eve came out of Adam`s rib. Where do we come out of Christ. We are IN Christ.

Why this truth is important to discuss is because the `bride` view leads to the wrong inheritance for the Body of Christ We will be seated with Christ in the highest, not coming down. Christ`s seat of power and authority is throughout God`s great kingdom however His seat of power and authority is in the third heaven, above ALL. And that is where we will be.

 

[Marilyn C]

ok, I'll do my best to show this.

First I want to point out where we see “the Israel of God” as opposed to “Israel after the flesh”, for any who haven’t noticed this, and how the Israel of God is made up of citizens who are “new creatures”, while Israel after the flesh is made up of unbelieving Jews/Israelites:



Gal 6:13-16

For neither they themselves who are circumcised keep the law; but desire to have you circumcised, that they may glory in your flesh.

But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.



And this below makes mention of “Israel after the flesh”, which is earthly Israel whose citizens are not new creatures but they are unbelieving Jews under the Law:


1Co 10:18

Behold Israel after the flesh: are not they which eat of the sacrifices partakers of the altar?



Here below we see unbelieving Gentiles are likewise called “Gentiles in the flesh”, the same as unbelieving Israel, and also we see that the Israel of God is allegorically called a commonwealth, which is a group of nations joined together under one ruler or government….like we have the example of a group of English speaking nations under the British monarchy and they are called a commonwealth. Believing Gentiles are joined together with believing Jews in the Israel of God, and become partakers of the same “root”, under the same ruler, Christ Jesus, King of Israel:

Eph 2:11-16

Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby



The body of Christ is made up of both believing Jews and Gentiles who together are the "one new man" with both being part of the same tree partaking of the same root.

The analogy of the Israel of God being a commonwealth which members include believers of other nations agrees with the analogy of natural and unnatural branches being grafted together into the same tree (Israel of God, the kingdom of God) and all partaking of the same root (Israel’s Messiah and King Jesus Christ):

Rom 11:15-17

For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree

That is `in Christ.` the Body of Christ, whereas the nation of Israel will not be `in Christ` but have a new heart. (Ez. 36: 26 & 27)

As to us being grafted into Israel, that is not correct. In Rom. 11: 15 - 17 we read that the root is holy, nourishes us and supports us. That is Christ, NOT Israel. Israel is not holy, nourishing us or supporting us. You had it half right.

 

[Marilyn C]

Not at all......they fulfill God's purpose when they receive their Messiah/Christ and not apart from Him. God's word and prophecies for Israel need to be seen through the lens of the gospel, comparing spiritual with spiritual. The Key of David (Jesus) unlocks their true meaning, which had hitherto been kept hid. Only He can give us eyes to see and ears to hear. The prophecies are not fulfilled by earthly Israel as such, but by the Israel of God. Earthly Israel in scripture being an allegory for the Israel of God, the kingdom of God.

All prophecies are fulfilled by JESUS.

 

[Marilyn C]

Well in this case, the truth that I put forth in my post. Christ is head of His body, as a husband is head of his wife, which shows that body and bride/wife are two allegories for the same thing.

So why does Jesus need to `marry` millions od men and women?

 

[Marilyn C]

Not in the least.

Well I can't tell you, you can ask Him. But He said He will, so He will, whether or not we can understand it or not.

It is important to know for it leads to the wrong inheritance.

 

[GracePeace]

Eve came out of Adam`s rib. Where do we come out of Christ. We are IN Christ.

Why this truth is important to discuss is because the `bride` view leads to the wrong inheritance for the Body of Christ We will be seated with Christ in the highest, not coming down. Christ`s seat of power and authority is throughout God`s great kingdom however His seat of power and authority is in the third heaven, above ALL. And that is where we will be.

1a. The Scripture doesn't say Eve was fashioned from Adam's "rib", but came from his "side".
1b. Yeah, when it says we're "in Christ", that is true : the body of Christ, Christ's body and bride, is Christ's body, thus we're in Him by being in His body, His bride.

2. LOL "No, 1 + 1 does not equal 2, because 'Revelation' says it's 3!"
I don't care about your ridiculous interpretation of Revelation, which no one really understands anyway--show FROM THE TEXTS I CITED that I'm wrong, and that the Church is not both Christ's body and bride. You can't, so you won't.

 

[GracePeace]

That is `in Christ.` the Body of Christ, whereas the nation of Israel will not be `in Christ` but have a new heart. (Ez. 36: 26 & 27)

LOL! You REALLY need to reread Romans.
1. Anyone who is not "in Christ" is "in Adam", thus condemned to the curse of death which Christ defeated--the Jews aren't going to have a New Heart, but still be cursed sinners in Adam.
2. You want to act as though the two are mutually exclusive, but there is no mutual exclusivity--you can have a new heart AND be in Christ LOL In fact, ALL believers have both true of them.

As to us being grafted into Israel, that is not correct. In Rom. 11: 15 - 17 we read that the root is holy, nourishes us and supports us. That is Christ, NOT Israel. Israel is not holy, nourishing us or supporting us. You had it half right.

1. Believing Gentiles are grafted in to God's people, the people among whom the Presence of God is, which distinguishes it from all other nations (Exodus 33:15).
2. The root is the forefathers : Torah warns that for some sins the offender will be "cut off from among his people". We know, therefore, that the tree represents "God's people"--which Israel has been cut off from, with only a remnant remaining--which ("God's people"), again, is defined as "the nation with whom God's Presence dwells". We know Peter says this Presence is only for those who repent and believe in Christ (Acts 3).

 

[Marilyn C]

1a. The Scripture doesn't say Eve was fashioned from Adam's "rib", but came from his "side".
1b. Yeah, when it says we're "in Christ", that is true : the body of Christ, Christ's body and bride, is Christ's body, thus we're in Him by being in His body, His bride.

2. LOL "No, 1 + 1 does not equal 2, because 'Revelation' says it's 3!"
I don't care about your ridiculous interpretation of Revelation, which no one really understands anyway--show FROM THE TEXTS I CITED that I'm wrong, and that the Church is not both Christ's body and bride. You can't, so you won't.

`Therefore let us, as many as are mature, have this mind; and if in anything you think otherwise, God will reveal even this to you.` (Phil. 3: 15)