The Church decided the canon. How do you know you have the correct canon?

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amigo de christo

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First you should have the courage to address me directly.
Second I've answered how the the thief was saved
Third salvation is for God to impart on others as he wishes. Its not for me to judge who he imparts his salvation to. God can save whoever he wants whenever he wants by whatever means he wants.
Lastly NOTHING makes what James says incorrect. If faith is sufficient then it does not need completion through works. Unless you're suggesting names is lying.
Sorry but GOD already decided HOW he would save .
Get ready cause its gonna boot satans anti christ intefaith right to the curb too .
FOR it PLEASED GOD that by the preaching to save , to save THOSE WHO DO BELIEVE .
WHO DO BELIEVE .
sorry intefaith is of anti christ
Now i know i hear the same thing all the time .
OH amigo DONT JUDGE THEM false religoins , GOD knows their heart
there are good people in all religoins that are doing good etc .
YEAH , SHOW ME ONE HUMAN BEING born of man and of woman
THAT IS GOOD . in the meantime i am gonna KEEP ON pointing to THE ONLY ONE WHO IS GOOD
GOD ALL MIGHTY , CHRIST JESUS the ONLY NAME whereby one may be saved .
 
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amigo de christo

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James 2:17 In the same way, faith by itself is dead if it does not have works.

James 2: 22 Thus you can see that his (Abraham) faith and his works were active together; his faith was brought to completion by works.

James 2: 24 You can see then that a man is justified by eorks.snd not by faith alone.

James 2:26 For just as the body is dead without spirit so faith without works is dead.

Every there is scripture not the rcc. You speak with no greater authority than Scripture. You are arguing with Scripture not me.
i aint aruging with scrip . I already said what both james and paul wrote were true .
You must have sat under , maybe i am wrong , but THE RCC or some kind of works religoin mindset .
Now as much as i hate that false hyper grace junk
THIS OTHER MINDSET IS JUST AS DEADLY BUD .
YOU probably already believe there are muslims , buddists , atheists and etc
somehow gonna be saved by what WE THINK is such good works .
I HOPE i am wrong about this my friend .
I really hope i have you pegged wrong on that .
SO lets make it clear .
What do you think about this co exist , interrreligious intefaith dialgue stuff .
I KNOW its of anti christ . but i would like to hear you say what you think and see about it .
 
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nedsk

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i aint aruging with scrip . I already said what both james and paul wrote were true .
You must have sat under , maybe i am wrong , but THE RCC or some kind of works religoin mindset .
Now as much as i hate that false hyper grace junk
THIS OTHER MINDSET IS JUST AS DEADLY BUD .
YOU probably already believe there are muslims , buddists , atheists and etc
somehow gonna be saved by what WE THINK is such good works .
I HOPE i am wrong about this my friend .
I really hope i have you pegged wrong on that .
SO lets make it clear .
What do you think about this co exist , interrreligious intefaith dialgue stuff .
I KNOW its of anti christ . but i would like to hear you say what you think and see about it .
Tell me what sufficient means.

While you're at it cite any place where I stated people are saved by works.
 
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David in NJ

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And I've shown you that the demons believe but they aren't saved.

Faith.is brought to completion by works. You need to understand what sufficient means but you just refuse. If faith was sufficient it wouldnt need completion through works. Unless you're claiming Scripture is wrong or deceptive.
#1 - i am in FULL AGREEMENT with James 2:14-17

Grace is the fullfillment of Faith which yields "works that God prepared for us to walk in".
Both a and b. Luke 23:39-43. His faith was brought I completion by his work of rebuking the other thief. Your heart is far from him.
the thief was giving testimony to the righteousness of Christ and to their own sin whereby they are on 'death row'

This is not a 'work' but it is TESTIMONY of the SPIRIT from within a man's heart thru FAITH
 

nedsk

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#1 - i am in FULL AGREEMENT with James 2:14-17

Grace is the fullfillment of Faith which yields "works that God prepared for us to walk in".

the thief was giving testimony to the righteousness of Christ and to their own sin whereby they are on 'death row'

This is not a 'work' but it is TESTIMONY of the SPIRIT from within a man's heart thru FAITH
Works are a free act of the will. If we aren't free to refuse to do them then we cannot be acting out of love. Love has to be freely given.

It wasnt just a testimony it was also a rebuke. Again God can give salvation to whoever he chooses. Matt 20:1-16
 

David in NJ

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Works are free act of the will. If we aren't free to refuse to do them then we cannot be acting out of love. Love had to be freely given.

It wasnt just a testimony not was a rebuke. Again God can give salvation to whoever he chooses. Matt 20:1-16
Rebuking sin is "testimony/work of the Holy Spirit"

But now I go away to Him who sent Me, and none of you asks Me, ‘Where are You going?’ But because I have said these things to you, sorrow has filled your heart. Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you.
And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: of sin, because they do not believe in Me; of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more; of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.


SEE what i highlighted in RED = this is exactly what the Spirit worked inside the heart of the thief who had Faith unto Salvation
 

nedsk

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Rebuking sin is "testimony/work of the Holy Spirit"

But now I go away to Him who sent Me, and none of you asks Me, ‘Where are You going?’ But because I have said these things to you, sorrow has filled your heart. Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you.
And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: of sin, because they do not believe in Me; of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more; of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.


SEE what i highlighted in RED = this is exactly what the Spirit worked inside the heart of the thief who had Faith unto Salvation
Again what the thief did does not negate that faith is brought to completion through works. That faith without works is like a body without spirit, dead. Unless your claiming the words.of James are useless and can be ignored.
 

The Gospel of Christ

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The biggest wildcard in this entire subject is the Book of Enoch and why it was left out..

Enoch was the seventh generation from Adam (Jude 1:14).

Enoch was the great-grandson of Adam and Eve.

Enoch was also the great-grandfather of Noah (Genesis 5:18–29).

Enoch was born before the Flood and is the only pre-Flood prophet with an attributed book of prophecy.

Enoch is said to have “walked with God” (Genesis 5:24).

Enoch is one of only two people in the Old Testament who were taken by God without dying (the other is Elijah).

The phrase “walked with God” is uniquely applied to Enoch, setting him apart from other patriarchs.

Enoch is directly quoted in the New Testament, in the Epistle of Jude (Jude 1:14–15).

The quote in Jude is a verbatim reference to 1 Enoch 1:9, confirming the Apostles’ familiarity with the text.

Jude refers to Enoch as a prophet.

The content of the quote in Jude is not found in Genesis or any Old Testament text except the Book of Enoch.

The Book of Enoch contains a messianic prophecy of the Second Coming of Christ with His holy ones.

The Book of Enoch describes the judgment of the ungodly, consistent with New Testament eschatology.

Enoch is mentioned in Hebrews 11:5 as part of the “Hall of Faith.”

Enoch’s righteousness is affirmed in Hebrews 11 as pleasing to God.

The Book of Enoch was part of the Dead Sea Scrolls collection.

Multiple full and partial copies of Enoch were discovered among the Qumran scrolls.

The Book of Enoch was preserved and canonized in the Ethiopian Orthodox Church, one of the oldest Christian traditions.

The Ethiopian Church includes Enoch as part of the broader canon and has used it liturgically for centuries.

Early Church Fathers such as Tertullian referenced and endorsed Enoch.

Justin Martyr referenced the angelic fall narrative consistent with Enoch’s account.

Athenagoras, Irenaeus, and Origen referenced themes that are distinctly Enochian.

Enoch provides a full theological framework for Genesis 6:1–4, which the canonical Bible only briefly summarizes.

The Book of Enoch identifies the “Sons of God” in Genesis 6 as rebellious angels.

Enoch names the chief fallen angels, including Semjaza and Azazel.

Enoch explains the origin of the Nephilim.

Enoch links demonic spirits to the disembodied spirits of the Nephilim, explaining their origin and hostility.

Enoch gives detailed descriptions of angelic transgressions and the divine punishment that followed.

The Book of Enoch records how angels corrupted humanity with forbidden knowledge.

Enoch identifies categories of forbidden knowledge: warfare, cosmetics, sorcery, astrology, etc.

These teachings connect directly with the New Testament theme of spiritual wickedness in high places (Ephesians 6:12).

Enoch's judgment prophecies are consistent with Old and New Testament apocalyptic texts.

The Book of Enoch contains an early vision of the Messiah, referred to as the “Son of Man.”

Enoch’s “Son of Man” figure is enthroned in heaven, judging kings and the wicked — consistent with Daniel 7 and Revelation.

Enoch is the earliest written source to describe the Son of Man pre-incarnate in a divine role.

Enoch describes a coming resurrection of the righteous.

Enoch describes a coming final judgment of fallen angels and unrepentant humans.

Enoch contains structured parables and visions, matching the prophetic genre of books like Daniel, Ezekiel, and Revelation.

The theological content of Enoch does not contradict canonical Scripture, but rather expands and clarifies it.

The Book of Enoch was known and used during the Second Temple period.

Enoch was likely known to Jesus and the Apostles, based on references and terminology.

Enoch was widely circulated in both Hebrew and Aramaic before and during the time of Christ.

The Book of Enoch was widely read by early Jewish sects, including the Essenes.

There is no known historical record of the Book of Enoch being formally condemned by the Apostles.

The exclusion of Enoch was based on late post-apostolic decisions, not direct divine rejection.

The Council of Nicaea never discussed or formally excluded the Book of Enoch.

The Book of Enoch was not excluded due to heresy, but likely due to political and theological discomfort.

Enoch undermines post-Constantinian theology, including views on angels, hierarchy, and spiritual warfare.

Enoch is consistent with apocalyptic themes found in Revelation, 2 Peter, Jude, Zechariah, and Daniel.

The themes of divine judgment, fallen angels, spiritual corruption, and the return of the Son of Man are all biblically foundational.

The omission of Enoch leaves major theological gaps in the canon regarding pre-Flood history, demonology, and the role of angels.

The Book of Enoch fills in background theology that is assumed by later biblical texts.

Enoch’s account of the Watchers explains the urgency of the Flood far more clearly than Genesis alone.

Without Enoch, the reader must infer complex doctrines from fragmented verses.

Enoch aligns with New Testament emphasis on cosmic spiritual conflict.

Enoch was once accepted by the broader early Christian world and was only later marginalized.

The Book of Enoch is more theologically grounded than several later Apocryphal works that remained in Catholic Bibles (e.g., Tobit, Judith).

There is no evidence of widespread rejection of Enoch in the first three centuries of Christianity.

The rejection of Enoch coincided with Rome’s consolidation of theological control over canon formation.

Enoch provides a clear Messianic vision prior to the Law, tying Christ to pre-Abrahamic prophecy.


So the only answer one can be left with is this:

The Book of Enoch wasn’t excluded because it was false. It was excluded because it was too true — and too terrifying.


The content of Enoch is not mild theology. It isn’t concerned with civic morality or imperial order. It pulls the curtain back on a world of angelic rebellion, forbidden knowledge, corrupted bloodlines, judgment by fire, and an all-seeing Messiah enthroned before creation.

In other words:
Enoch reveals a supernatural war — and it names names.

The early Roman Church, under imperial influence, had every reason to avoid that.

At the time of canon finalization, the Christian faith was being absorbed into empire. Constantine’s goal was not purity of doctrine — it was unity of empire. And a book like Enoch, which reveals:

The origin of demonic spirits,
The crimes of heavenly beings,
The pre-Advent enthronement of the Son of Man,
And an unrelenting prophetic condemnation of world powers…

…was not useful to a system trying to create order, hierarchy, and long-term political control.

It scared people.
Not because it was fantasy — but because it wasn’t.
It described a spiritual reality so intense, so direct, and so unfiltered, that Rome saw it as destabilizing.

So they buried it.

It wasn’t doctrinal deviation that got Enoch shelved.
It was doctrinal danger
danger to the religious gatekeepers, to the imperial narrative, and to the sanitized, post-apocalyptic version of Christianity Rome was creating.

The Book of Enoch didn’t fit the empire’s religion.

But it fit the apostles’ worldview perfectly.

And that’s why it had to go.
 
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The Gospel of Christ

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What might have happened if the Book of Enoch had made it into the final biblical canon:

1. The Western world would have developed a deeply supernatural, spiritually alert worldview centered on angelic rebellion, judgment, and the cosmic authority of Christ.

2. The origin of demons, fallen angels, and Nephilim would be common knowledge among all Christians.

3. The “Sons of God” in Genesis 6 would be universally understood as fallen angels, not dismissed or allegorized.

4. Early church catechism would have included teachings on the Watchers and spiritual warfare on a cosmic scale.

5. There would be no room for modernist, materialist Christianity that denies the reality of supernatural evil.

6. The divinity and pre-existence of Christ as the enthroned “Son of Man” would be emphasized from childhood catechism onward.

7. Gnostic heresies and New Age spirituality would have been exposed and dismantled early, as their “hidden knowledge” would already be addressed and condemned in Scripture.

8. The Vatican likely would never have emerged as a centralized, syncretic imperial religious system.

9. The veneration of statues, saints, and angels as intermediaries would have been rejected as the very kind of angelic corruption Enoch condemns.

10. The porn industry would not exist, as sexual corruption would be understood as one of the core tactics of fallen angels.

11. The concept of “forbidden knowledge” would be integrated into theological training, guarding society from alchemical, occult, and transhumanist deviations.

12. Eugenics, cloning, and genetic manipulation would be seen as revivals of the Watchers’ sins and met with unified Christian resistance.

13. The burning of Christians for reading Scripture would have triggered rebellion against Rome centuries earlier.

14. The Protestant Reformation might have occurred earlier and more violently, with Enoch exposing Catholic deviations clearly and prophetically.

15. The Vatican likely would have been dismantled, not reformed, during the Reformation.

16. Paganism, witchcraft, and esoteric cults would be publicly associated with the sins of the Watchers and destroyed systematically.

17. The 1948 UN/Rothschild creation of modern “Israel” would have been rejected globally by Christians, as Enoch makes clear who the true covenant belongs to.

18. Christian Zionism would never have existed, as Enoch places judgment squarely on the wicked rulers of the earth and on the fallen angels behind them.

19. Evangelical theology would focus on the kingdom of Christ over any earthly state or bloodline.

20. The Scofield Bible would have never gained influence, as Enoch exposes false Israel and spiritual deception rooted in denying the Messiah.

21. Christian art, literature, and culture would be dramatically more sober, prophetic, and apocalyptic in tone.

22. The West would be far less secular, as Enoch leaves no room for sanitized, humanistic religion.

23. Education would include the origin of evil, not just moral behavior, producing citizens who understand spiritual deception and rebellion.

24. Freemasonry, Kabbalah, and occult secret societies would be instantly identified as extensions of Watcher knowledge and outlawed.

25. The modern entertainment industry, saturated with demonic and Nephilim symbolism, would have no foothold.

26. AI, transhumanism, and synthetic biology would be framed theologically as repeat offenses of the pre-Flood world.

27. The flood narrative would be taught not as myth, but as a divine reset triggered by cosmic corruption.

28. Church liturgy and sermons would regularly invoke the reality of angelic judgment and Christ’s cosmic authority.

29. Revelation would be universally linked to Enoch’s visions, creating a unified eschatological framework.

30. The line between spiritual and physical rebellion would be clearly understood by Christians from youth onward.

31. Political systems that oppose Christ would be prophetically opposed by the Church without compromise or appeasement.

32. The concept of spiritual hierarchy under Christ would replace worldly status obsession in church structures.

33. Churches would view angelic accountability as real, resulting in deeper reverence, discipline, and fear of God.

34. The idea of global revival would include cleansing the Church of spiritual compromise with Babylonian systems.

35. Christianity would be viewed not as a set of beliefs, but as a revealed cosmic war — one with no neutrality.

36. The lukewarm, seeker-friendly church movement would never have taken root.

37. Enoch's inclusion would have collapsed false ecumenism and exposed interfaith apostasy.

38. Seminaries would train spiritual watchmen, not corporate theologians.

39. Government policies would be examined through a spiritual warfare lens.

40. Christians would be far less naive about “progress,” “science,” and “technology” disconnected from morality.

41. Generational sin, curse, and blessing would be better understood through Enoch’s genealogical emphasis.

42. Political leaders who oppose Christ would be denounced without fear or hesitation.

43. Spiritual discernment would be foundational to all education, politics, and science.

44. Apostolic authority would be protected by grounding it in the divine order Enoch explains.

45. The fear of God would be restored in every pulpit.

46. Christ would not be seen as just Savior — but as the eternal Judge enthroned since before creation.

47. The Antichrist spirit would be easier to detect, since Enoch exposes the spirit of rebellion in its original form.

48. False prophets, false miracles, and signs would be discredited instantly by people grounded in Enoch’s record.

49. Christianity would not be a part-time religion, but a full worldview of cosmic truth.

50. The Church would be unstoppable, because it would finally see the whole war.


And of course, the Dragon would NEVER allow any of that. ^

A Church that knew the full truth —
about the Watchers, the Nephilim, the origin of demons, the pre-incarnate Messiah, and the cosmic war for souls —
would be unstoppable.

So the Book was buried.

Not because it was false.
But because it was dangerous —
to him.

"And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world..." — Revelation 12:9

And he still is.
 

The Gospel of Christ

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Also...

Instead of having misleading, ridiculous and absolutely, asinine false depictions like this of Noah hung in every 8 - 12 grade church-study hallway.

Gen 1.png




Things would be a little more realistic to what really went down before the flood.. Which Enoch explains in great detail.
You know.. because he was actually there to witness it.

Gen 2.png


Image 1 (cartoon Noah, rainbows, smiling devil):
This is what gets plastered in Sunday school and church hallways across America.
It’s childish, sanitized, and completely disconnected from the biblical text.
There is no sense of judgment, fear of God, angelic rebellion, or divine wrath.
It reduces the Flood to a bedtime story and Satan to a red mascot.

The result?​

Generations of teenagers (especially since the 1970s/80s) grew up in church believing:

God is always smiling
Satan is a cartoon
The Flood was just about animals and the Ark
Angels are harp-playing babies
And the world is basically safe

Then they encounter real evil, real deception, and real spiritual warfare — and they're defenseless.
It leaves them ignorant and unprepared..
(Exactly how the Dragon likes them)

Because they were shown Image 1,
when they needed to be shown Image 2.
 
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Marvelloustime

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i aint aruging with scrip . I already said what both james and paul wrote were true .
You must have sat under , maybe i am wrong , but THE RCC or some kind of works religoin mindset .
Now as much as i hate that false hyper grace junk
THIS OTHER MINDSET IS JUST AS DEADLY BUD .
YOU probably already believe there are muslims , buddists , atheists and etc
somehow gonna be saved by what WE THINK is such good works .
I HOPE i am wrong about this my friend .
I really hope i have you pegged wrong on that .
SO lets make it clear .
What do you think about this co exist , interrreligious intefaith dialgue stuff .
I KNOW its of anti christ . but i would like to hear you say what you think and see about it .
@amigo de christo
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Marvelloustime

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Sorry but GOD already decided HOW he would save .
Get ready cause its gonna boot satans anti christ intefaith right to the curb too .
FOR it PLEASED GOD that by the preaching to save , to save THOSE WHO DO BELIEVE .
WHO DO BELIEVE .
sorry intefaith is of anti christ
Now i know i hear the same thing all the time .
OH amigo DONT JUDGE THEM false religoins , GOD knows their heart
there are good people in all religoins that are doing good etc .
YEAH , SHOW ME ONE HUMAN BEING born of man and of woman
THAT IS GOOD . in the meantime i am gonna KEEP ON pointing to THE ONLY ONE WHO IS GOOD
GOD ALL MIGHTY , CHRIST JESUS the ONLY NAME whereby one may be saved .
@amigo de christo
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David in NJ

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And faith is brought to completion by works. James 2:22. For just as the body is dead without a Spirit, so faith without works is also dead. James 2:26
Good Morning,
Fresh ground coffee is available at my place = all who love the LORD Jesus Christ are Welcome.

Faith in the Word is completed in Christ and HE bestows to us this completed faith which resides in Him.

After the Faith to believe is secured in a persons heart, the Lord sends the Holy Spirit but only to those who are asking/seeking.

It is the Holy Spirit that guides us in the "works" that follow Faith
 

nedsk

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Good Morning,
Fresh ground coffee is available at my place = all who love the LORD Jesus Christ are Welcome.

Faith in the Word is completed in Christ and HE bestows to us this completed faith which resides in Him.

After the Faith to believe is secured in a persons heart, the Lord sends the Holy Spirit but only to those who are asking/seeking.

It is the Holy Spirit that guides us in the "works" that follow Faith
Good morning

You're slowly catching on. Yes works follow faith and bring it to completion, James 2:22. The Holy Spirit guides us yes but it's our choice to do that which we are guided to do. Love is a free act of the will. If we are not free to refuse to do it then it's not a free act of the will. It is not love.

You people seem to think saying faith is not sufficient is the equivalent of saying works saves us. No one has claimed that. I have never claimed that. I will never claim that but Scripture is clear faith is not sufficient for salvation. It is absolutely necessary, but it is not sufficient if not followed by works just like you said.
 

David in NJ

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The Holy Spirit guides us yes but it's our choice to do that which we are guided to do. Love is a free act of the will. If we are not free to refuse to do it then it's not a free act of the will. It is not love.
You are slowly catching on
 

JesusFan

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The 'church' did not form the bible.
That is no formal organisation sat down and debated what formed the bible.
Rather there was agreement among church leaders of the requirements that every book had to meet to be considered as part of the bible.

There are plenty of books and web site or blogs that discuss this a basic one is coldcasechristianity.
Correct answer is that God inspired the 66 inspired books of the Canon period
 

David in NJ

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Correct answer is that God inspired the 66 inspired books of the Canon period
Agree, and yet their is something odd about '66' books.

Where are the missing '4' books that would bring it to 70 and or 77

We know the extra books that RCC added are not H.S. inspired scripture.
 
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