Why am I not a Christian?

[Bruce-Leiter]

I'm with Father. I have been listening to others almost all my life. No more, until I meet someone who no more slave of two masters.

The advantage I have found in listening to preachers and teachers of the Word is that I'm still imperfect and need others to apply the Bible to my life. If you are perfect, as you seem to imply, have you considered the following texts to measure whether your claim is correct?

1Th 5:16 Rejoice always,
1Th 5:17 pray without ceasing,
1Th 5:18 give thanks in all circumstances; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you.

Heb 10:24 And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works,
Heb 10:25 not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near.

You seem to be disappointed with churches because they are imperfect; but every Christian falls short of perfection, that is, not always rejoicing, praying, and being thankful, for example.

If you say you are perfect and disobey Hebrews 10: 24-25, how can you claim perfection? I will never claim perfection, since Paul didn't claim it in Philippians 3:12--

Php 3:8 Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ
Php 3:9 and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith—
Php 3:10 that I may know him and the power of his resurrection, and may share his sufferings, becoming like him in his death,
Php 3:11 that by any means possible I may attain the resurrection from the dead.
Php 3:12 Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect, but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me his own.
Php 3:13 Brothers, I do not consider that I have made it my own. But one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and straining forward to what lies ahead,
Php 3:14 I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.

In the context, the goal and prize for our human race add up to God's gracious future gift of resurrection perfection.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

You are without sin?

Blood of Jesus not good enough for ya or something???

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Hi. Just tell me, how many people in your church have at list level of John the Baptist? How many do not commit sins?

Just don't pay attention to the calvinists. They believe God only wants a few people to be saved and will tell you that God decided to not save you. They aren't sure if they are saved either because they aren't sure who got the lucky ticket and who has not.

They twist God's Word so those that claim to be calvinist or reformed teach false doctrine so if you hook up with these false brethren they you will be come deceived.

 

[Bruce-Leiter]

Blood of Jesus not good enough for ya or something???

Yes, the blood of Jesus washes away the GUILT of our sins in the eyes of our divine Judge, but the presence of sin remains to be slowly overcome through Jesus' death and resurrection. That's what justification means, that our heavenly Judge gives the verdict of "not-guilty" and right with him, but the presence of sin has to be overcome by Jesus' resurrection power throughout our lifetimes.

Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it,
Rom 3:22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction:
Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Rom 3:24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,
Rom 3:25 whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins.

Php 3:12 Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect, but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me his own.

 

[Riven]

Blood of Jesus not good enough for ya or something???

You're dodging the question. It is most telling.

 

[rockytopva]

8 The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. - Romans 10

The two big deals (how hard is this?)...

1. Confess the Lord Jesus
2. Believe in your heart that God has raised him from the dead

And... You are saved! We accept you as a Christian. From there we would encourage you to grow and to study the material you feel God has laid in your lap.

 

[Matthias]

8 The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. - Romans 10

The two big deals (how hard is this?)...

1. Confess the Lord Jesus
2. Believe in your heart that God has raised him from the dead

And... You are saved! We accept you as a Christian. From there we would encourage you to grow and to study the material you feel God has laid in your lap.

How exactly does that work with the Nicene Creed? Are you at liberty to say?

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

You're dodging the question. It is most telling.

You're dodging the question. It is most telling.

 

[Riven]

You're dodging the question. It is most telling.

The blood would in fact be good enough to save me. But it would not absolve me of sin.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

But it would not absolve me of sin.

Nothing but dirty red water in your estimation then?

 

[Riven]

Nothing but dirty red water in your estimation then?

No. I think you misunderstand me. I'm saying that, even if I were to be saved, I couldn't then turn around and carry on with a life of sin and call myself sinless.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

No. I think you misunderstand me. I'm saying that, even if I were to be saved, I couldn't then turn around and carry on with a life of sin and call myself sinless.

Yes, that would be correct. We cannot live in sin and still be saved.

So you never got saved?

You said "even if I were to be saved"

 

[Riven]

Yes, that would be correct. We cannot live in sin and still be saved.

So you never got saved?

You said "even if I were to be saved"

No, I've never been saved.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

No, I've never been saved.

You should get hooked up with Jesus, it's a great adventure that makes the devil mad as well as most people!

Why in the world would a non Christian want to hang out as a Christian discussion forum anyway?

 

[Riven]

You should get hooked up with Jesus, it's a great adventure that makes the devil mad as well as most people!

You Christians make people mad because you're arrogant and you look down your noses at everyone else. Even other Christians that you disagree with.

Why in the world would a non Christian want to hang out as a Christian discussion forum anyway?

Well, I used to hang out with Christians quite a lot many years ago. I guess you could say I'm a victim of circumstance. I enjoy talking about theology, philosophy, the nature of God, etc.

Plus, when you scroll this far down, it kind of ceases being a Christian forum. You are in the non-Christian section, just so you're aware. :)

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

You Christians make people mad because you're arrogant and you look down your noses at everyone else. Even other Christians that you disagree with.

Well, there's always hell to look forward to for the unsaved.

The unsaved are arrogant and look down their noses at everyone else.

You ought to at least get saved and miss hell.

You are in the non-Christian section, just so you're aware. :)

Oh, thanks for the heads up.

I wasn't aware I was in the section for infidels.

 

[Riven]

Well, there's always hell to look forward to for the unsaved.

Why does it always come down to this? Do you get some kind of perverse pleasure out of imagining people suffering in hell, with the weeping and gnashing of teeth?

You ought to at least get saved and miss hell.

Become a Christian out of fear? No. That's not genuine. That's no good reason to believe something.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Why does it always come down to this? Do you get some kind of perverse pleasure out of imagining people suffering in hell, with the weeping and gnashing of teeth?

It is in fact reality! Just wanted people to be aware.

If you had information that could help someone avoid catastrophic events, you'd share it with them right?

A catastrophic event is coming your way, but it's cool - You've been informed.

Become a Christian out of fear?

Well, there's always hell to look forward to for the unsaved.

I got saved at 19 because a friend of mine invited me to church and they were preaching hell fire and brimstone!
The preacher said anybody that does not want to burn in hell should come down front and get born again.

I'm very glad I did! After that I started learning and growing in my relationship with the Lord.

But it started with the thought that I didn't thinking burning in fire for all eternity was really something that I would enjoy or be interested in. Didn't sound like it would be fun or enjoyable at all.

No matter how you slice it, hell fire is in fact in your future unless you get born again and walk with the Lord for the rest of your life.

 

[Riven]

It is in fact reality! Just wanted people to be aware.

If you had information that could help someone avoid catastrophic events, you'd share it with them right?

Yeah.

A catastrophic event is coming your way, but it's cool - You've been informed.

That's right. So now you can walk away and pretend like you did a good deed.

I got saved at 19 because a friend of mine invited me to church and they were preaching hell fire and brimstone!
The preacher said anybody that does not want to burn in hell should come down front and get born again.

Did it ever occur to you to ask yourself if what this person was saying was true?

I'm very glad I did! After that I started learning and growing in my relationship with the Lord.

But it started with the thought that I didn't thinking burning in fire for all eternity was really something that I would enjoy or be interested in. Didn't sound like it would be fun or enjoyable at all.

You did it save your own skin, by your own admission. There's nothing admirable about that. If the preacher had been preaching about the love of Jesus, you'd have probably walked away after calling him a tree hugger or something.

No matter how you slice it, hell fire is in fact in your future unless you get born again and walk with the Lord for the rest of your life.

Prove it. Show me evidence of people burning in hell.