THE CHURCH IS NOT THE BRIDE OF CHRIST
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GracePeace
Well-Known Member
So, would you say that this would be one of the points on which you differ with Doug?
Quote the verse please.
Love your honesty here.
I dont know greek but it seems everyone on the internet is a Greek scholar.
I certainly dont know everything.
My intention is not to insult you but to help everyone gain more understanding in godly wisdom and knowledge.
Its sinful to assume interpretation. It's ok to say I think this is what God is teaching but not for sure.
But it is sinful to teach on some scripture as the gospel truth if you're making assumptions.
Psalm 20:13,
- keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins let them not have dominion over me then shall I be upright and I shall be innocent from the great transgression
I have 100% no doubt in my mind, Greek scholars do not consider petra and petros the same.
Please quote Paul. Thanks
GracePeace
Well-Known Member
If Peter was never in the Church, why does he think that Jesus's rules about the Church apply to him, so that he asks about how many times he should forgive his brother, and why does Jesus give him the rules for behavior in the Church?
Matthew 18
15“If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. 16“But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED. 17“If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. 18“Truly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.
19“Again I say to you, that if two of you agree on earth about anything that they may ask, it shall be done for them by My Father who is in heaven. 20“For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst.”
21Then Peter came and said to Him, “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me and I forgive him? Up to seven times?” 22Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven.
I quoted it a little while back, but you probably aren't following every post on this thread....I know I'm not. Here it is again:
Eph 2:19-20
Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
2Co 11:5
For I suppose I was not a whit behind the very chiefest apostles.
2 Cor 12:11
I am become a fool in glorying; ye have compelled me: for I ought to have been commended of you: for in nothing am I behind the very chiefest apostles, though I be nothing.
But I don't consider it to be a matter of "superiority" as you were suggesting, but of prominence and authority. Not in an "official" way, but I don't think it would be unusual to suppose that some apostles might have carried more weight than others for whatever reasons. In my observation Peter had more "prominence" in scripture than the other disciples/apostles, except for Paul.
Think you must have missed an earlier post of mine where I implied much the same thing. Nevertheless, why on earth wouldn't I be honest....?
The Gospel of Christ
Well-Known Member
^ The title of your thread "THE CHURCH IS NOT THE BRIDE OF CHRIST"
is from the Pit. Learn the truth and repent > Evangelicals, Awaken: The Old Covenant Is Gone and You Are Under a Spell
is from the Pit. Learn the truth and repent > Evangelicals, Awaken: The Old Covenant Is Gone and You Are Under a Spell
Romans 7, note 4, we are married to Christ, so we are the bride of Christ.
Even when plainly written, some will not believe.
Or do you not know, brethren (for I speak to those who know the law), that the law [a]has dominion over a man as long as he lives? 2 For the woman who has a husband is bound by the law to her husband as long as he lives. But if the husband dies, she is released from the law of her husband. 3 So then if, while her husband lives, she marries another man, she will be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from that law, so that she is no adulteress, though she has married another man.
4 Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God.
5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. 6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.
Paul makes the comparison of a marriage between a man and a woman to be like Christ and His church, and Paul calls this a great mystery.
Ephesians 5
Marriage—Christ and the Church
22 Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body. 24 Therefore, just as the church is subject to Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything.25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her, 26 that He might [g]sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word, 27 that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish. 28 So husbands ought to love their own wives as their own bodies; he who loves his wife loves himself. 29 For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as the Lord does the church. 30 For we are members of His body, [h]of His flesh and of His bones. 31 “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” 32 This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church. 33 Nevertheless let each one of you in particular so love his own wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband.
As I said the apostles are NOT the foundation of Gods spiritual house.
You answered with Ephesians 2:20
- other foundation can no man lay than that is laid which is Jesus Christ
Ephesians is explained by understanding that the apostles and prophets is figurative language known as metonymy.
What they preached i.e. the gospel truth is what the foundation is built upon, Peter's confession.
Based upon the truth of the gospel Jesus built His church.
The teaching of the gospel from the apostles in this verse is replaced with the apostles and prophets themselves. This is a figure of speech known as metonymy.
Said another way, true spirituality is laid upon the great truths concerning Christ. Peter confessed that Jesus is God and jesus proclaimed upon this bedrock fact He would build His church.
Ephesians 2:20,
- and art built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets Jesus Christ being the chief cornerstone
Jesus built upon the truth Peter had affirmed not the literal man himself.
Now the issue with Paul's seemingly contradictory statement, below
False teachers claiming to be super apostles were convincing some of the church in Corinth that Paul was inferior as an apostle to them.
This is why Paul said what he said.
But the old archaic King James version makes it more difficult to understand Paul in this passage.
Read it from some more modern English and it is easy to understand.
2Corinthians 11:5,
- I(Paul) do not think i am in the least inferior to those "super apostles " NIV
- indeed i consider that I am not in the least inferior to these "super apostles "ESV
Conclusion: Paul never claimed to be a head apostle or chief among the other apostles.
You answered with Ephesians 2:20
Earlier Paul said, 1Corinthians 3:11,
- other foundation can no man lay than that is laid which is Jesus Christ
Ephesians is explained by understanding that the apostles and prophets is figurative language known as metonymy.
What they preached i.e. the gospel truth is what the foundation is built upon, Peter's confession.
Based upon the truth of the gospel Jesus built His church.
The teaching of the gospel from the apostles in this verse is replaced with the apostles and prophets themselves. This is a figure of speech known as metonymy.
Said another way, true spirituality is laid upon the great truths concerning Christ. Peter confessed that Jesus is God and jesus proclaimed upon this bedrock fact He would build His church.
Ephesians 2:20,
- and art built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets Jesus Christ being the chief cornerstone
Jesus built upon the truth Peter had affirmed not the literal man himself.
Now the issue with Paul's seemingly contradictory statement, below
You must know the context.
False teachers claiming to be super apostles were convincing some of the church in Corinth that Paul was inferior as an apostle to them.
This is why Paul said what he said.
But the old archaic King James version makes it more difficult to understand Paul in this passage.
Read it from some more modern English and it is easy to understand.
2Corinthians 11:5,
- I(Paul) do not think i am in the least inferior to those "super apostles " NIV
- indeed i consider that I am not in the least inferior to these "super apostles "ESV
Conclusion: Paul never claimed to be a head apostle or chief among the other apostles.
GracePeace
Well-Known Member
@Doug Still haven't gotten an answer to this--Jewish believers have died, thus were freed from their obligation to serve by the Law, and are no longer in the flesh but are in the spirit (Ro 7:5, 8:9).
www.christianityboard.com
THE CHURCH IS NOT THE BRIDE OF CHRIST
You thought God is going to move Heaven to Uranus? hlf When someone is not content to rely on God`s word they resort to ridiculing the other person. Not good.
www.christianityboard.com
RenewedStrength316
New Member
Brother, I appreciate your pursuit of truth, but this teaching that “the Church is not the Bride” is a misstep in rightly dividing the Word. It may sound doctrinally clean on paper, but it collapses under the full weight of Scripture.
1. Espousal Means Future Union
2 Corinthians 11:2 isn’t just poetic language. Paul says he has espoused us to one husband—Christ—not to illustrate a vague concept, but to declare a covenant relationship in progress:
> “I have espoused you… that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.”
—2 Cor. 11:2
He doesn’t say “like a virgin,” or “as if.” He says to present you. That’s not symbolism—it’s purpose. Espousal is the Hebrew concept of legal betrothal. It was binding. It demanded purity. And it pointed toward an actual marriage.
2. Ephesians 5 Seals the Identity
> “This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the Church.”
—Ephesians 5:32
That mystery isn’t about human marriage—it’s about the divine one. Paul isn't using marriage as just a metaphor—he is revealing that marriage is the metaphor for Christ’s relationship with His Body, the Church.
Christ is the Bridegroom. The Church is the Bride.
The whole chapter builds this case:
Husbands = Christ
Wives = The Church
Union = Spiritual covenant
To deny the Church is the Bride is to deny the very mystery Paul calls “great.”
3. Revelation Doesn’t Contradict Paul—It Confirms Him
You quoted Revelation 21 where the New Jerusalem is called “the Bride.” But here’s the key: cities don’t get married—people do.
> “Come, I will show you the Bride, the wife of the Lamb… and he showed me the holy city, new Jerusalem…”
—Rev. 21:9–10
This is not saying that geography is being wed to Jesus. The city represents the redeemed people of God. It’s called “the Bride” because it houses the Bride. The imagery is covenantal and prophetic. Revelation is not a contradiction of Paul’s letters—it’s the consummation of them.
We’re not dealing with two separate brides. There is one Bride, one Lamb, one eternal covenant.
4. Revelation 19 Makes It Plain
> “Let us be glad… for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His Bride has made herself ready. Fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.”
—Rev. 19:7–8
This is before the New Jerusalem descends. The Bride here is not a city—it’s the saints. The redeemed. The Church. The linen isn’t stone walls or gold foundations—it’s righteousness. You can't pin this on physical Israel or a symbolic city. It is the Body of Christ adorned for her Groom.
5. Old Testament Imagery Isn’t the Whole Picture
Yes, the Old Testament describes God’s relationship with Israel in marital terms. He calls Himself Israel’s husband in Isaiah and Hosea. That was under the Old Covenant. But in the New, we see the mystery revealed—Jew and Gentile in one Body, the Church, joined to Christ.
> “This mystery is that the Gentiles are fellow heirs, members of the same body…”
—Ephesians 3:6
To claim Israel is the only Bride is to overlook the entire unveiling of the New Covenant and the mystery hidden for ages: Christ in you, the hope of glory (Col. 1:27).
6. The Bride Comes from Christ’s Side
Just like the first bride came from Adam’s side, the true Bride of Christ came from the wounded side of the Second Adam—when His blood was poured out to redeem a people for Himself.
Jesus didn’t just die for Israel. He died for the Church He would call out, purify, and unite to Himself forever.
> “Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave Himself for it… that He might present it to Himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle…”
—Ephesians 5:25–27
That is Bride language. That is covenant language. That is gospel language.
---
Final Word: Don’t Divide What God Has Joined
The idea that the Church is not the Bride is a reaction against bad theology—but it's an overcorrection. It separates what the Word joins together. It diminishes the intimacy Christ offers His Body. And it weakens the power of the Gospel, which isn’t just about salvation—it’s about union.
There is no second-class bride. There is no backup wedding.
There is one Lamb.
One cross.
One covenant.
One Spirit.
One Body.
One Bride.
And she is being made ready—washed in blood, clothed in righteousness, and longing for her King.
> “And the Spirit and the Bride say, Come.”
—Revelation 22:17
1. Espousal Means Future Union
2 Corinthians 11:2 isn’t just poetic language. Paul says he has espoused us to one husband—Christ—not to illustrate a vague concept, but to declare a covenant relationship in progress:
> “I have espoused you… that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.”
—2 Cor. 11:2
He doesn’t say “like a virgin,” or “as if.” He says to present you. That’s not symbolism—it’s purpose. Espousal is the Hebrew concept of legal betrothal. It was binding. It demanded purity. And it pointed toward an actual marriage.
2. Ephesians 5 Seals the Identity
> “This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the Church.”
—Ephesians 5:32
That mystery isn’t about human marriage—it’s about the divine one. Paul isn't using marriage as just a metaphor—he is revealing that marriage is the metaphor for Christ’s relationship with His Body, the Church.
Christ is the Bridegroom. The Church is the Bride.
The whole chapter builds this case:
Husbands = Christ
Wives = The Church
Union = Spiritual covenant
To deny the Church is the Bride is to deny the very mystery Paul calls “great.”
3. Revelation Doesn’t Contradict Paul—It Confirms Him
You quoted Revelation 21 where the New Jerusalem is called “the Bride.” But here’s the key: cities don’t get married—people do.
> “Come, I will show you the Bride, the wife of the Lamb… and he showed me the holy city, new Jerusalem…”
—Rev. 21:9–10
This is not saying that geography is being wed to Jesus. The city represents the redeemed people of God. It’s called “the Bride” because it houses the Bride. The imagery is covenantal and prophetic. Revelation is not a contradiction of Paul’s letters—it’s the consummation of them.
We’re not dealing with two separate brides. There is one Bride, one Lamb, one eternal covenant.
4. Revelation 19 Makes It Plain
> “Let us be glad… for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His Bride has made herself ready. Fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.”
—Rev. 19:7–8
This is before the New Jerusalem descends. The Bride here is not a city—it’s the saints. The redeemed. The Church. The linen isn’t stone walls or gold foundations—it’s righteousness. You can't pin this on physical Israel or a symbolic city. It is the Body of Christ adorned for her Groom.
5. Old Testament Imagery Isn’t the Whole Picture
Yes, the Old Testament describes God’s relationship with Israel in marital terms. He calls Himself Israel’s husband in Isaiah and Hosea. That was under the Old Covenant. But in the New, we see the mystery revealed—Jew and Gentile in one Body, the Church, joined to Christ.
> “This mystery is that the Gentiles are fellow heirs, members of the same body…”
—Ephesians 3:6
To claim Israel is the only Bride is to overlook the entire unveiling of the New Covenant and the mystery hidden for ages: Christ in you, the hope of glory (Col. 1:27).
6. The Bride Comes from Christ’s Side
Just like the first bride came from Adam’s side, the true Bride of Christ came from the wounded side of the Second Adam—when His blood was poured out to redeem a people for Himself.
Jesus didn’t just die for Israel. He died for the Church He would call out, purify, and unite to Himself forever.
> “Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave Himself for it… that He might present it to Himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle…”
—Ephesians 5:25–27
That is Bride language. That is covenant language. That is gospel language.
---
Final Word: Don’t Divide What God Has Joined
The idea that the Church is not the Bride is a reaction against bad theology—but it's an overcorrection. It separates what the Word joins together. It diminishes the intimacy Christ offers His Body. And it weakens the power of the Gospel, which isn’t just about salvation—it’s about union.
There is no second-class bride. There is no backup wedding.
There is one Lamb.
One cross.
One covenant.
One Spirit.
One Body.
One Bride.
And she is being made ready—washed in blood, clothed in righteousness, and longing for her King.
> “And the Spirit and the Bride say, Come.”
—Revelation 22:17
Precious brother, likewise appreciate your pursuit of God's Truth, Rightly Dividing All
( "The FULL Weight" of ) Scripture.
What is your take on the "Present Union" Of The Church, Which Is His Body United as "members Of
His Flesh And His Bones" as the "One New Man" (Ephesians 2:15 AV) = a male groom or a female 'bride'?
My take is here:
Is The Body Of Christ The Lamb's Wife?
Amen.
The Gospel of Christ
Well-Known Member
These people don't rightly divide the word, they butcher it into Satanic dispensations and absolute blasphemy. They carve the Gospel of Jesus Christ into the breath of the Dragon.
They mutilate the covenant of Christ, amputate the Body of believers, and dress up their heresy in wedding metaphors they don't even understand. They’ve replaced the blood-sealed unity of the Church with a schizophrenic theology that splits the Bride from the Body, the Cross from the Kingdom, and Jesus from His own Gospel.
This isn’t exegesis, this is sorcery with footnotes.
They’ve hijacked the mystery Paul revealed—Christ in you, the hope of glory—and turned it into a fantasy romance for a nation that crucified the Messiah and still rejects Him and spits on the Cross to this day. They don’t want union with Christ, they want a sequel with different actors.
A second covenant.
A second Bride,
and a second chance for unbelief.
There is no backup bride.
No postponed wedding.
No second covenant for ethnic flesh.
No throne in Jerusalem with sinners waving a flag that bears the cursed, demonic Star of Rephan.
You are not “rightly dividing” when you carve Christ in pieces.
You are not “defending the Word” when you twist it into an eschatological fairy tale that rewrites Calvary.
What they're doing is open blasphemy.
The Gospel is not a Jewish romance novel, it is a bloody, cosmic war for the soul of man—won once and for all by the crucified and risen King. And the Church is not waiting at the altar. The Church is His Body—flesh of His flesh, bone of His bone, sealed with the Spirit and seated with Him in the heavenlies right now.
You want to see the Bride?
Look in the mirror—if Christ is in you.
If not, then stop preaching False Israel.
And start fearing God.
To avoid the gates of Hell and the wrath of Almighty God, read the truth and come out from under the Dragon’s veil. > Evangelicals, Awaken: The Old Covenant Is Gone and You Are Under a Spell
They mutilate the covenant of Christ, amputate the Body of believers, and dress up their heresy in wedding metaphors they don't even understand. They’ve replaced the blood-sealed unity of the Church with a schizophrenic theology that splits the Bride from the Body, the Cross from the Kingdom, and Jesus from His own Gospel.
This isn’t exegesis, this is sorcery with footnotes.
They’ve hijacked the mystery Paul revealed—Christ in you, the hope of glory—and turned it into a fantasy romance for a nation that crucified the Messiah and still rejects Him and spits on the Cross to this day. They don’t want union with Christ, they want a sequel with different actors.
A second covenant.
A second Bride,
and a second chance for unbelief.
There is no backup bride.
No postponed wedding.
No second covenant for ethnic flesh.
No throne in Jerusalem with sinners waving a flag that bears the cursed, demonic Star of Rephan.
You are not “rightly dividing” when you carve Christ in pieces.
You are not “defending the Word” when you twist it into an eschatological fairy tale that rewrites Calvary.
What they're doing is open blasphemy.
The Gospel is not a Jewish romance novel, it is a bloody, cosmic war for the soul of man—won once and for all by the crucified and risen King. And the Church is not waiting at the altar. The Church is His Body—flesh of His flesh, bone of His bone, sealed with the Spirit and seated with Him in the heavenlies right now.
You want to see the Bride?
Look in the mirror—if Christ is in you.
If not, then stop preaching False Israel.
And start fearing God.
To avoid the gates of Hell and the wrath of Almighty God, read the truth and come out from under the Dragon’s veil. > Evangelicals, Awaken: The Old Covenant Is Gone and You Are Under a Spell
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Are you asking because you are ignorant(doubtful).
Or because you want me to prove I am learned in the scriptures?
Ancient buildings used a large stone positioned in the corner of the building. This was the first step in building a new structure.
This large stone was used as a guide to organize where the rest of the stones were to be placed.
Sometime in my preteen years I think I learned this during a sermon at worship. But I don't have a good memory so.
Of course this is all figurative symbolism.
Jesus is also the door of His spiritual house.
GracePeace
Well-Known Member
I don't know if you've picked up on it, but some people are beyond being reasoned with.
It may be a waste of your energies.
GracePeace
Well-Known Member
I thought you were being sarcastic (in a good way) so I laughed at your joke.
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