THE CHURCH IS NOT THE BRIDE OF CHRIST

[GracePeace]

I dont see this in Romans 13

Sorry, it was Ro 11:13

 

[Titus]

You said there is 2 gospels for Gentiles and 1 for Jews
There was Peter's gospel where both Jew and Gentile were saved
There is Paul's gospel by which Jew and Gentiles are saved

Doug, what does this mean?
Thanks

 

[GracePeace]

He was never `in.` He was told by the Lord that he and the other 11 apostles would rule over the 12 tribes of Israel.

So, would you say that this would be one of the points on which you differ with Doug?

 

[Titus]

Yes, but we mustn't forget also the scripture that says the apostles and prophets are the foundation with Jesus being the chief cornerstone of it

Quote the verse please.

I've heard some say in the Greek petros was a little rock, whereas petra implied a big boulder, but I don't know whether that is true or not.

Love your honesty here.
I dont know greek but it seems everyone on the internet is a Greek scholar.
I certainly dont know everything.

My intention is not to insult you but to help everyone gain more understanding in godly wisdom and knowledge.

Its sinful to assume interpretation. It's ok to say I think this is what God is teaching but not for sure.
But it is sinful to teach on some scripture as the gospel truth if you're making assumptions.

Psalm 20:13,
- keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins let them not have dominion over me then shall I be  upright and I shall be innocent from the great transgression

I have 100% no doubt in my mind, Greek scholars do not consider petra and petros the same.

Paul did make a reference to "the chiefest of apostles", so some were more prominent than others I think it is safe to say

Please quote Paul. Thanks

 

[GracePeace]

He was never `in.` He was told by the Lord that he and the other 11 apostles would rule over the 12 tribes of Israel.

If Peter was never in the Church, why does he think that Jesus's rules about the Church apply to him, so that he asks about how many times he should forgive his brother, and why does Jesus give him the rules for behavior in the Church?

Matthew 18
15“If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. 16“But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED. 17“If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. 18“Truly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.
19“Again I say to you, that if two of you agree on earth about anything that they may ask, it shall be done for them by My Father who is in heaven. 20“For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst.”
21Then Peter came and said to Him, “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me and I forgive him? Up to seven times?” 22Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven.

 

[Lizbeth]

Quote the verse please.

I quoted it a little while back, but you probably aren't following every post on this thread....I know I'm not. Here it is again:

Eph 2:19-20
Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

Please quote Paul. Thanks

2Co 11:5
For I suppose I was not a whit behind the very chiefest apostles.

2 Cor 12:11
I am become a fool in glorying; ye have compelled me: for I ought to have been commended of you: for in nothing am I behind the very chiefest apostles, though I be nothing.

But I don't consider it to be a matter of "superiority" as you were suggesting, but of prominence and authority. Not in an "official" way, but I don't think it would be unusual to suppose that some apostles might have carried more weight than others for whatever reasons. In my observation Peter had more "prominence" in scripture than the other disciples/apostles, except for Paul.

Love your honesty here.

Think you must have missed an earlier post of mine where I implied much the same thing. Nevertheless, why on earth wouldn't I be honest....?

 

[The Gospel of Christ]

^ The title of your thread "THE CHURCH IS NOT THE BRIDE OF CHRIST"
is from the Pit. Learn the truth and repent > Evangelicals, Awaken: The Old Covenant Is Gone and You Are Under a Spell

 

[Scott Downey]

^ The title of your thread "THE CHURCH IS NOT THE BRIDE OF CHRIST"
is from the Pit. Learn the truth and repent > Evangelicals, Awaken: The Old Covenant Is Gone and You Are Under a Spell

Romans 7, note 4, we are married to Christ, so we are the bride of Christ.
Even when plainly written, some will not believe.

Or do you not know, brethren (for I speak to those who know the law), that the law [a]has dominion over a man as long as he lives? 2 For the woman who has a husband is bound by the law to her husband as long as he lives. But if the husband dies, she is released from the law of her husband. 3 So then if, while her husband lives, she marries another man, she will be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from that law, so that she is no adulteress, though she has married another man.

4 Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God.

5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. 6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.

Paul makes the comparison of a marriage between a man and a woman to be like Christ and His church, and Paul calls this a great mystery.

Ephesians 5

Marriage—Christ and the Church​

22 Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body. 24 Therefore, just as the church is subject to Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything.

25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her, 26 that He might [g]sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word, 27 that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish. 28 So husbands ought to love their own wives as their own bodies; he who loves his wife loves himself. 29 For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as the Lord does the church. 30 For we are members of His body, [h]of His flesh and of His bones. 31 “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” 32 This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church. 33 Nevertheless let each one of you in particular so love his own wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband.

 

[Titus]

As I said the apostles are NOT the foundation of Gods spiritual house.
You answered with Ephesians 2:20

Eph 2:19-20
Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

Earlier Paul said, 1Corinthians 3:11,
- other foundation can no man lay than that is laid which is Jesus Christ

Ephesians is explained by understanding that the apostles and prophets is figurative language known as metonymy.

What they preached i.e. the gospel truth is what the foundation is built upon, Peter's confession.
Based upon the truth of the gospel Jesus built His church.

The teaching of the gospel from the apostles in this verse is replaced with the apostles and prophets themselves. This is a figure of speech known as metonymy.

Said another way, true spirituality is laid upon the great truths concerning Christ. Peter confessed that Jesus is God and jesus proclaimed upon this bedrock fact He would build His church.

Ephesians 2:20,
- and art built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets Jesus Christ being the chief cornerstone

Jesus built upon the truth Peter had affirmed not the literal man himself.

Now the issue with Paul's seemingly contradictory statement, below

2Co 11:5
For I suppose I was not a whit behind the very chiefest apostles

You must know the context.
False teachers claiming to be super apostles were convincing some of the church in Corinth that Paul was inferior as an apostle to them.

This is why Paul said what he said.
But the old archaic King James version makes it more difficult to understand Paul in this passage.

Read it from some more modern English and it is easy to understand.

2Corinthians 11:5,
- I(Paul) do not think i am in the least inferior to those "super apostles " NIV

- indeed i consider that I am not in the least inferior to these "super apostles "ESV

Conclusion: Paul never claimed to be a head apostle or chief among the other apostles.