THE CHURCH IS NOT THE BRIDE OF CHRIST

[RenewedStrength316]

Respectfully you have not given me the promises which according to you we receive

Doug, the promises are not hidden in some obscure text. They are declared plainly throughout Scripture—open to all who have ears to hear.

Listen:

Galatians 3:14 — “...that the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.”

Ephesians 1:3-5 — “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ... He predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ.”

Romans 4:16 — “Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed...”

Hebrews 6:12 — “That you do not become sluggish, but imitate those who through faith and patience inherit the promises.”


These are the promises: adoption, inheritance, Spirit, eternal life, kingdom authority—all secured by faith in Christ.

Doug, this isn’t conjecture. This is the gospel, the power of God unto salvation to everyone who believes (Romans 1:16).

If you seek to deny or minimize these promises for the Church, you fracture the unity Christ died to create.

Turn to the Word. Receive the fullness of the gospel. Stop dividing what God has joined.

The Bride is one—Jew and Gentile, united in Christ, heirs of promise, reigning with Him.

 

[GracePeace]

Doug, the promises are not hidden in some obscure text. They are declared plainly throughout Scripture—open to all who have ears to hear.

Listen:

Galatians 3:14 — “...that the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.”

Ephesians 1:3-5 — “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ... He predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ.”

Romans 4:16 — “Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed...”

Hebrews 6:12 — “That you do not become sluggish, but imitate those who through faith and patience inherit the promises.”


These are the promises: adoption, inheritance, Spirit, eternal life, kingdom authority—all secured by faith in Christ.

Doug, this isn’t conjecture. This is the gospel, the power of God unto salvation to everyone who believes (Romans 1:16).

If you seek to deny or minimize these promises for the Church, you fracture the unity Christ died to create.

Turn to the Word. Receive the fullness of the gospel. Stop dividing what God has joined.

The Bride is one—Jew and Gentile, united in Christ, heirs of promise, reigning with Him.

It really is simple. No need for the overly complex web of insanity he has spun.

 

[RenewedStrength316]

It really is simple. No need for the overly complex web of insanity he has spun.

It is simple because the gospel is simple—yet profound. The power of God unto salvation is for all who believe, Jew and Gentile alike (Romans 1:16).

The Church is not a fragmented afterthought but the one Bride, grafted into Abraham’s promises by faith in Christ (Galatians 3:28-29). To deny this is to divide what God has joined and open the door for confusion and destruction (1 Corinthians 1:10; Romans 16:17).

This is not about complexity but faithfulness to the whole counsel of Scripture, not man’s traditions or fragmented theology.

Let us call all back to the fullness of the gospel—where grace reigns, unity prevails, and Christ alone is exalted (Ephesians 4:4-6).

 

[GracePeace]

It is simple because the gospel is simple—yet profound. The power of God unto salvation is for all who believe, Jew and Gentile alike (Romans 1:16).

The Church is not a fragmented afterthought but the one Bride, grafted into Abraham’s promises by faith in Christ (Galatians 3:28-29). To deny this is to divide what God has joined and open the door for confusion and destruction (1 Corinthians 1:10; Romans 16:17).

This is not about complexity but faithfulness to the whole counsel of Scripture, not man’s traditions or fragmented theology.

Let us call all back to the fullness of the gospel—where grace reigns, unity prevails, and Christ alone is exalted (Ephesians 4:4-6).

Correction : THIS ISSUE is simple... there are other issues, especially justification, that are basically impossibly difficult that make you have to pray. At least that's how it is for me--and, apparently, others also find that difficult bc men have debated it basically since the founding of Christianity, and have not come up with satisfactory explanations of Paul's writings. BUT I don't want to get off on a tangent, and derail the current conversation.

 

[Marilyn C]

LOL! You all really are ridiculous. Jesus taught the disciples He would build His church, and the gates of hell would not prevail against it, and that if people misbehave, kick them out of the congregation, so they all had better behave... but Peter is not in the congregation, and he never was! LOL! My, my, my. So funny. I'll have to get back to you on this. It's just too late.

Now when someone is ridiculing another it seems to show that they do not just rely of God`s word but seek to put down another to try and boost up themselves. Not good. And just shows a weakness in discussing.

Jesus said He would build His ekklesia. Israel was called the Ekklesia also. If Jesus told the 12 disciples about the Body of Christ, then was Paul lying when he said that revelation was revealed to him? (Eph. 3: 2 - 6)

 

[Marilyn C]

We mustn't be too "logical" and literal about everything. Back in Genesis, being figures for Christ and the church, it speaks of Adam and Eve this way.....his bride/wife is bone of His bone and flesh of his flesh...hence the bride is his body also. The church is Christ's body and He is the Head of it....we are attached to each other...one with each other. He is in us and we are in Him. Both analogies, both body and bride, are speaking of the same thing, just highlighting different aspects of it, and don't contradict each other, unless one is being too literal about it. Because we're not literally a bride or a body....these are just parables, pictures to reveal a truth.

Gen 2:23
And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

1Co 6:16-17
What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

Where does it say that Adam and Eve were figures of Christ & His Body? Now you can`t have it both ways - body and bride. The symbol of the wife/bride was in the OT and for Israel. (Isa. 54: 5 & 6)

 

[Marilyn C]

Eph 2:11-15

Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;



And we have the analogy of being unnatural branches grafted into the tree of Israel (the Israel of God, which is believing Israel, not Israel after the flesh - which is unbelieving Israel) We are joined in with the believing faithful OT saints and patriarchs of Israel and present remnant…..being sons of promise, not sons of the flesh.

This is the Israel we are joined to, which is not Israel after the flesh, but we are joined with the Israel of God, sons of the promise:

Rom 9:1-11

I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,

That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.

For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:

Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son.

And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;

(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)

We are joined to Christ who is the holy root which nourishes and supports us. Israel does not do that. (Rom. 11: 16 & 17)

`I say then, has God cast away His people? Certainly not!.` (Rom. 11: 1)

 

[Marilyn C]

Sister, with scripture we're told we need to be comparing spiritual with spiritual. And remember Jesus said His kingdom is not of this world. And 2 Peter 3 says this world will burn up at the return of Christ and we look for new heavens and new earth. In 1 Cor. 15 it says Jesus hands the kingdom back over to the Father when He returns. There will be no utopia on this earth. Jesus is ruling and reigning now and the saints with Him. All power/authority in heaven and earth (to rule) was given to Jesus after His resurrection.

By the way, the apostles were ruling over the Israel of God and its twelve tribes....they were the leaders/rulers of the early church (Israel of God). The church has twelve "tribes" in a manner of speaking, (as natural Israel was a picture of the church) I believe related to gifts and callings.

Jesus said His kingdom rulership was not of this world. Meaning No one gave Him His authority to rule. it is the Father who does that. (Ps. 2: 6) Jesus is over all God`s kingdom - heaven and earth. (Eph. 1: 22 - 22)

The Body of Christ does not have 12 tribes. Nonsense.

 

[Marilyn C]

Since Scripture can only be understood in context any verse in isolation is out of context.
Therefore scripture cannot be understood or rightly divided if taken out of context.

Jesus is the builder, Matthew 16:18-19.
All those living stones are being built up into a spiritual house. But they are not the foundation of Jesus' spiritual house.
Peter is one of those living stones.

If Peter is not in His church. Peter is then lost.

There can be only one church.
Notice,
- and I will build My church....
Singular.
Not churches.

How many churches did Jesus say He will build?

There are two ekklesia - the Church/Ekklesia in the wilderness and the church/Ekklesia the Body of Christ.

 

[Marilyn C]

So, would you say that this would be one of the points on which you differ with Doug?

I think Doug agrees with that.

 

[Marilyn C]

If Peter was never in the Church, why does he think that Jesus's rules about the Church apply to him, so that he asks about how many times he should forgive his brother, and why does Jesus give him the rules for behavior in the Church?

Matthew 18
15“If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. 16“But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED. 17“If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. 18“Truly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.
19“Again I say to you, that if two of you agree on earth about anything that they may ask, it shall be done for them by My Father who is in heaven. 20“For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst.”
21Then Peter came and said to Him, “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me and I forgive him? Up to seven times?” 22Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven.

Matt. was written about Jesus on earth when He came to His own people, Israel.

 

[GracePeace]

Now when someone is ridiculing another it seems to show that they do not just rely of God`s word but seek to put down another to try and boost up themselves. Not good. And just shows a weakness in discussing.

Jesus said He would build His ekklesia. Israel was called the Ekklesia also. If Jesus told the 12 disciples about the Body of Christ, then was Paul lying when he said that revelation was revealed to him? (Eph. 3: 2 - 6)

I'm not relying on God's Word? LOL! You literally said Peter is not part of the ekklesia, because, no, he will rule over the 12 tribes, but, also, Israel was called the ekklesia.

Why would Paul be lying just because something was given to him by revelation? Remember also that he says he got it not without basis, but that the dynamic of Adam and Eve was the basis of it.

 

[GracePeace]

Matt. was written about Jesus on earth when He came to His own people, Israel.

Nope, He said "go disciple the nations teaching them to observe all things I taught you", so it applies to all believers.

 

[Marilyn C]

I'm not relying on God's Word? LOL! You literally said Peter is not part of the ekklesia, because, no, he will rule over the 12 tribes, but, also, Israel was called the ekklesia.

Why would Paul be lying just because something was given to him by revelation? Remember also that he says he got it not without basis, but that the dynamic of Adam and Eve was the basis of it.

Peter is part of the ekklesia of Israel. Please give scriptures to show differently.

Adam and Eve becoming ONE flesh is like Christ and His Body, ONE flesh.

`We are members of His flesh and of His bones.` (Eph. 5: 30)

We are the New Man which is coming to a Perfect man. (Eph. 2: 15 4: 13). So when did we become female?

 

[Marilyn C]

Nope, He said "go disciple the nations teaching them to observe all things I taught you", so it applies to all believers.

And Jesus told His 12 disciples to go into all the world. Where do you see they did that?

And what doctrine did they teach of the Body of Christ please before Paul received his revelation. Scriptures?

 

[GracePeace]

Peter is part of the ekklesia of Israel. Please give scriptures to show differently.

Please give Scripture where "ekklesia of Israel" appears in the New Covenant.

Adam and Eve becoming ONE flesh is like Christ and His Body, ONE flesh.

Eve was literally Adam's own body LOL

`We are members of His flesh and of His bones.` (Eph. 5: 30)

We are the New Man which is coming to a Perfect man. (Eph. 2: 15 4: 13). So when did we become female?

Ask Paul, who is "in pains of labor" (Gal 4:19), and who says we are "bearing fruit to God" together with Christ (Ro 7).

 

[GracePeace]

And Jesus told His 12 disciples to go into all the world. Where do you see they did that?

Like that time when Peter went to Cornelius, a Gentile, or when Thomas went to India?

And what doctrine did they teach of the Body of Christ please before Paul received his revelation. Scriptures?

Jesus says a scribe or lawyer who converts brings forth from his treasury things both new and old--therefore, Paul taught the same as Peter, et al, he just went into further detail. If not, Paul couldn't have called Peter out for not walking in THE [one] truth of THE [one] Gospel (Gal 2).

 

[GracePeace]

Peter is part of the ekklesia of Israel. Please give scriptures to show differently.

Jesus said He would build His church, because He understands the Church global to be a singular entity--just as Paul says "you are members of His body--one is an eye, one is a hand". Are you saying Jesus is only building the "ekklesia of Israel", a made-up term, but He isn't building congregations of believers that aren't Jewish?
You really are ridiculous.

 

[Marilyn C]

Please give Scripture where "ekklesia of Israel" appears in the New Covenant.

Eve was literally Adam's own body LOL

Ask Paul, who is "in pains of labor" (Gal 4:19), and who says we are "bearing fruit to God" together with Christ (Ro 7).

`My little children, for whom I labor in birth again until Christ is formed in you.` (Gal. 4: 19)

That is Paul talking to HIS disciples and using pictorial language as is `bearing fruit to God.` (Rom. 7: 4)

 

[Marilyn C]

Like that time when Peter went to Cornelius, a Gentile, or when Thomas went to India?

Jesus says a scribe or lawyer who converts brings forth from his treasury things both new and old--therefore, Paul taught the same as Peter, et al, he just went into further detail. If not, Paul couldn't have called Peter out for not walking in THE [one] truth of THE [one] Gospel (Gal 2).

Mmm I don`t seem to have that scripture in my Bible about Thomas going to India.

As to the `good news,` yes Peter and Paul agreed that Jesus was Lord and Messiah and that the Holy Spirit was given to the Gentiles, however, where do you read of Peter teaching about the Body of Christ? That was the revelation given to Paul which Peter could not understand. (2 Peter 3: 16)