THE CHURCH IS NOT THE BRIDE OF CHRIST

[GracePeace]

Whats the question?????

It really is a hell of a lot of work talking with you. I have to do your side of the conversation, too.

You said..................So, would you deny that the ones who you say are "in Christ", but not "Christ's body", share in Christ's death and resurrection?

The fact that the Jewish believers are free from their obligation to serve by the Law proves they have died (Ro 7:1).
How did they die? "Through the body of Messiah" : they are the body of Christ, thus they share in His death and resurrection.
The same is true of all who believe and are baptized : they share in Christ's death and resurrection.
They die with Christ and are raised with Christ.
All believers are in Christ and are the body of Christ.

But they are in the body in Romans 7

Paul says "when we WERE in the flesh" (Ro 7:5)--meaning he now denies that they are "in the flesh"--and "you are not in the flesh but in the spirit" (Ro 8:9).

 

[GracePeace]

All my posts go into detail about this

Yeah, foaming at the mouth, schizophrenic ranting detail.

 

[amigo de christo]

There is an earthly Zion and a heavenly one.

Why how true this is my dear sister .
There is an Heavenly ZION of GOD , OF CHRIST
and there is an earthen zion that is in bondage with her children .
As their is the heavenly so there is the earthly
BUT THE EARTHEN IN IN BONDAGE and in deadly dire danger of upmost damnation
for it has REBELLED against GOD .
How so . TO DENY JESUS is TO DENY GOD ALL MIGHTY HIMSELF .
The flesh profits NOT ONE THING .
YE MUST be born again
THOSE Who beleive JESUS is the CHRIST are BORN OF GOD . SIMPLE fact .
Many will wail , plead , weep and howl
but the only answer they get as they pound upon the door is
I NEVER KNEWS YA . WRATH TIME .
Now its HIGH TIME we preaches THE ONLY NAME that can save a jew or a gentile
with an upmost sense of urgency of the dire necessity to BELEIVE ON HIM .

 

[Doug]

I'm afraid this theology is rebuilding the partition between Jew and Gentile that Jesus tore down.

No just saying that Jesus and the twelve were preaching and teaching the kingdom and we should not think it applies to us
We have to adhere to Paul who removes the partition

 

[Marvelloustime]

Why how true this is my dear sister .
There is an Heavenly ZION of GOD , OF CHRIST
and there is an earthen zion that is in bondage with her children .
As their is the heavenly so there is the earthly
BUT THE EARTHEN IN IN BONDAGE and in deadly dire danger of upmost damnation
for it has REBELLED against GOD .
How so . TO DENY JESUS is TO DENY GOD ALL MIGHTY HIMSELF .
The flesh profits NOT ONE THING .
YE MUST be born again
THOSE Who beleive JESUS is the CHRIST are BORN OF GOD . SIMPLE fact .
Many will wail , plead , weep and howl
but the only answer they get as they pound upon the door is
I NEVER KNEWS YA . WRATH TIME .
Now its HIGH TIME we preaches THE ONLY NAME that can save a jew or a gentile
with an upmost sense of urgency of the dire necessity to BELEIVE ON HIM .

@amigo de christo

 

[amigo de christo]

No just saying that Jesus and the twelve were preaching and teaching the kingdom and we should not think it applies to us
We have to adhere to Paul who removes the partition

Man would paul have rebuked you so sharply ye had run in total terror .
Paul didnt remove that which GOD established IN THE SON .
Paul did not the work and working of the lie .
Pauline might have , BUT PAUL DARN sure did not .
Ye have walked a highly slipperly line my friend
and i am fearful that for better traction you will soon baby oil those feet and fall and fall and fall .
Todays generation is in large
as a man who is trapped in a deep dark pit
And above this pit is a great light and within that light be a great rope
by which one can escape .
BUT this generation rather than looking up
keeps trying to use a compass figuring out , OH do i need to make a right turn , go east , go west
AND YET THE ROPE is RIGHT THERE for them to grab BUT THEY JUST WONT look up UNTO
HE who has lighted this rope by which they could have pulled themselves out of the pits of men
and BEEN FREE from the pit of darkness and bondage .

 

[Doug]

Brother, I can tell you're trying to rightly divide the Word. That’s a noble thing. But what you're describing sounds like the framework of hyperdispensationalism—and I need to speak plainly.

hyperdispensation thinks the only Pauline epistles were the ones from prison....they are Acts 28

 

[Doug]

The idea that the Church (Christ’s Body) is not the Bride, not part of the Kingdom, and has a totally separate heavenly destiny from Israel is not what Scripture teaches. It's a man-made division that splits what Christ has united.

Can you offer scriptural support for all this

 

[Doug]

Yes, Israel had promises. Yes, Jesus came to the lost sheep of Israel. But in Christ, every promise is fulfilled—and Gentiles who believe are grafted in (Rom. 11:17). Not into a separate olive tree. Into the same one.

The Gentiles grafted in are Gentiles that believed the preaching of Jesus and Peter and the disciples they are members of the remnant of believing Israel the church of God that Paul persecuted

 

[Doug]

“If you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed and heirs according to the promise.” (Gal. 3:29)

heirs of Christ not Abraham we dont get his promises

 

[GracePeace]

heirs of Christ not Abraham we dont get his promises

OOPS!

Galatians 3
1You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified? 2This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? 3Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? 4Did you suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? 5So then, does He who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?
6Even so Abraham BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS. 7Therefore, be sure that it is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham. 8The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “ALL THE NATIONS WILL BE BLESSED IN YOU.” 9So then those who are of faith are blessed with Abraham, the believer.
10For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, “CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO DOES NOT ABIDE BY ALL THINGS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW, TO PERFORM THEM.” 11Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, “THE RIGHTEOUS MAN SHALL LIVE BY FAITH.” 12However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, “HE WHO PRACTICES THEM SHALL LIVE BY THEM.” 13Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us—for it is written, “CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON A TREE”— 14in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
...
29And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s descendants, heirs according to promise.

By definition, anyone who believes and receives the Spirit is a descendant and heir of Abraham.

 

[Doug]

We don’t get a "heaven-only" inheritance. We reign with Him on the earth (Rev. 5:10). We are seated in heavenly places now (Eph. 2:6), but Jesus is returning to rule the nations—and we rule with Him (Rev. 20:6; Dan. 7:27).

[Rev 5:10 KJV] 10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

[Exo 19:5-6 KJV] 5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth [is] mine: 6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These [are] the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

Israel will be a kingdom of priests

 

[Doug]

and we rule with Him (Rev. 20:6; Dan. 7:27).

[Rev 20:6 KJV] 6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The first resurrection is the old testament saints and those in the remnant of israel and those who died in the tribulation
Its the resurrection of the just
We have our resurrection in the rapture......the rapture is only for the body of Christ

 

[RenewedStrength316]

hyperdispensation thinks the only Pauline epistles were the ones from prison....they are Acts 28

That’s one version, yes—but hyperdispensationalism isn’t limited to that label. The error is deeper: it over-divides the Word of God and fractures the Body of Christ.
Any theology that says the Church isn’t the Bride, isn’t part of the Kingdom, and has no earthly reign with Christ is operating in the same spirit—separating what God has joined. That’s the root problem. And it’s not new. It’s the same error Paul warned of:

> “Mark them which cause divisions contrary to the doctrine… and avoid them.” (Rom. 16:17)

 

[RenewedStrength316]

Can you offer scriptural support for all this

Absolutely. Let’s open the Word.

1. The Church is the Bride:
Paul says in Ephesians 5:25–32 that Christ “loved the Church” and gave Himself for her, cleansing her “so that He might present the Church to Himself in splendor…holy and without blemish.” Then Paul says this is a mystery—but I speak concerning Christ and the Church. That’s bridal language. Not metaphor only—mystery revealed.

Also: 2 Corinthians 11:2 – “I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.” Paul didn’t say he espoused Israel. He said he espoused the Church.

2. The Church is in the Kingdom:
Colossians 1:13 – “He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us into the Kingdom of His beloved Son.”
Revelation 1:6 – “He has made us kings and priests unto God.” We are not waiting to enter the Kingdom; we’re already in it spiritually—awaiting its physical manifestation.

3. One Body, One Destiny:
Ephesians 2:14–16 destroys the idea of two separate peoples:
“He has made both one…broken down the middle wall of separation…to create in Himself one new man from the two.”
Ephesians 3:6 calls it the mystery: Gentiles are fellow heirs, members of the same body, and partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel.

So no—this isn’t man-made unity. It’s God-revealed mystery. To divide what Christ united is to rebel against the very thing He died to create.

 

[RenewedStrength316]

The Gentiles grafted in are Gentiles that believed the preaching of Jesus and Peter and the disciples they are members of the remnant of believing Israel the church of God that Paul persecuted

That claim completely ignores the flow of Romans 11 and the broader mystery Paul unfolds.

Let’s be clear:
Romans 11:17 says Gentiles are grafted into the olive tree, not into a remnant within Israel, but into God’s covenant people—the root nourished by the promises made to the patriarchs. This tree is not ethnic Israel or believing Israel only. It's the spiritual people of God—Jew and Gentile alike, made one in Christ.

Paul says this plainly in Romans 11:24:
“You, a wild olive branch, were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree…”
This wasn’t about being added to a preexisting remnant, but being joined supernaturally to a new creation reality.

Also—Paul wasn't persecuting Jewish believers in Messiah alone. He says in Galatians 1:13 he persecuted the Church of God. That’s the same Church he later tells the Gentiles in Ephesus they now belong to (Ephesians 2:19):
“You are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God.”

You’re trying to split God’s people into compartments—remnant Jews over here, believing Gentiles over there—but Paul dismantled that wall:

> “There is neither Jew nor Greek…for you are all one in Christ Jesus.” (Gal. 3:28)



What you’re defending is not biblical unity—it's theological fragmentation. Christ didn’t die to create two flocks. He said,

> “There shall be one flock, one Shepherd.” (John 10:16)

 

[RenewedStrength316]

heirs of Christ not Abraham we dont get his promises

You just denied the plain text of Scripture.

Galatians 3:29 doesn’t say we’re “heirs of Christ only.” It says:

> “If you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.”



What promise? The Abrahamic one—justified by faith, not by law, not by bloodline. That’s the entire point of Galatians 3. Paul is explicitly connecting Gentile believers to Abraham’s covenant through Christ:

> “The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham: ‘In you shall all nations be blessed.’” (Gal. 3:8)



That blessing? Not just salvation—it’s inheritance. Paul confirms this in Romans 4:13:

> “For the promise to Abraham and his offspring that he would be heir of the world did not come through the law but through the righteousness of faith.”



So yes—we are heirs of Christ and heirs of the Abrahamic promise, because those two are not separate. Christ is the seed (Gal. 3:16), and all who are in Him become part of the promise.

To reject that is to reject the very foundation of Gentile inclusion in the plan of God.

 

[RenewedStrength316]

[Rev 5:10 KJV] 10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

[Exo 19:5-6 KJV] 5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth [is] mine: 6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These [are] the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

Israel will be a kingdom of priests

Yes—Israel was offered the priestly kingdom conditionally in Exodus 19:5–6:

> “IF you obey My voice… THEN you shall be a kingdom of priests.”



But Israel did not keep the covenant. That offer was forfeited by disobedience (see Deut. 31:16–17, Jer. 11:10). The priestly kingdom didn’t vanish—it was fulfilled in Christ, and through His Church:

> “You are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people…”
(1 Peter 2:9—Peter writing to both Jew and Gentile believers scattered abroad.)



That language is directly quoting Exodus 19, showing that what was once reserved for Israel has now been fulfilled in Christ’s body. The Kingdom of priests isn't future Israel-only—it’s the blood-bought Church:

> “You have made us kings and priests to our God, and we shall reign on the earth.” (Rev. 5:10)



That’s not spoken by ethnic Israel—it’s the song of the redeemed from every tribe, tongue, people, and nation (Rev. 5:9). The Church isn’t replacing Israel—we’re part of the fulfilled mystery where Jew and Gentile are made one in Christ (Eph. 3:6).

Revelation 20:6 seals it:

> “They shall be priests of God and of Christ and shall reign with Him a thousand years.”



So no, our inheritance isn’t some “heaven-only harp cloud.” It’s co-reigning with Christ on a renewed earth—as priests and kings in a Kingdom He Himself rules.

 

[RenewedStrength316]

[Rev 20:6 KJV] 6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The first resurrection is the old testament saints and those in the remnant of israel and those who died in the tribulation
Its the resurrection of the just
We have our resurrection in the rapture......the rapture is only for the body of Christ

Brother, you’re forcing man-made categories into a text that doesn’t support them. Let's walk this through biblically—not dispensationally.

You quoted Revelation 20:6 correctly:

> “Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection… they shall be priests of God and of Christ and shall reign with Him a thousand years.”



But then you added something the text never says: that this is only for Old Testament saints, remnant Israel, and tribulation martyrs—not the Church.

Where’s that in the verse?
It’s not there. You’re reading that into the text. That’s eisegesis, not exegesis.

What does Scripture say about the First Resurrection?

Revelation 20 doesn’t list “Israel only,” it simply describes:

Those who didn’t take the mark (tribulation saints), yes,

But also anyone who has part in the first resurrection—and calls them priests of God and Christ.


That same priestly language is used in Revelation 1:6 and Revelation 5:10 for the Church:

> “He has made us kings and priests to our God, and we shall reign on the earth.”



That’s not Israel-only. That’s the redeemed from every nation (Rev. 5:9).


---

The First Resurrection is not “Phase 1 for Israel, Phase 2 for the Church.”

That’s a man-made chart—not Bible.

In fact, 1 Corinthians 15:23 tells you exactly how the resurrection unfolds:

> “Each in his own order:



Christ the firstfruits,

afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.”


That’s not divided by dispensations—that’s one resurrection for all who belong to Christ, regardless of Jew or Gentile.


---

What About the Rapture?

Yes, the Church is caught up to meet the Lord (1 Thess. 4:16–17). But that event is part of the First Resurrection—not separate from it.

How do we know?

Because Paul says in 1 Thess. 4:16:

> “The dead in Christ shall rise first.”



That is resurrection language—bodily resurrection—not just spiritual departure.

You claim the Rapture is only for the Body of Christ, but Scripture says all who are in Christ rise—there’s no verse that divides this from the First Resurrection in Revelation 20. In fact, Revelation 20 is the culmination of that same resurrection that began with Christ, continues with His Church, and concludes with His return.


---

Final Word: There Is One People, One Resurrection, One Reign

You’re trying to divide what Scripture calls unified:

> “There is one body and one Spirit… one hope… one Lord, one faith, one baptism.” (Eph. 4:4–5)



You don’t get a Jewish resurrection and a Church resurrection. You don’t get separate timelines for separate brides.

If you’re in Christ—whether OT saint looking forward, NT believer, tribulation martyr—you are part of the First Resurrection and will reign with Him.

If not, you’re in the second resurrection—and that one ends in judgment.


---

> “There shall be one flock, one Shepherd.” (John 10:16)



> “If you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed.” (Gal. 3:29)



> “They lived and reigned with Christ…” (Rev. 20:4)



Let the Word speak. Not the charts. Not the systems. The Word.

 

[Doug]

Excuse me for butting in again, but wasn't it Jesus who said what does it profit to gain the whole world but lose one's own soul? Outer darkness is not a good place to be....it means outside of heaven, aka, LOST....as in PERISH.

You can butt in anytime

I dont know anymore than scripture says .........the Bible doent elaborate about outer darkness other than saying they are cast out of the kingdom