Crucifixion Question

[FinnleyGraves]

I know the story of Jesus's birth, death, and resurrection. And I know the story of his crucifixion.

This is where my question comes into play. There is something I don't "fully" understand. I have a very superficial understand of my question. Hopefully someone can understand what I'm asking and help me to better understand.

I don't fully understand sending Jesus to the earth to live as a man. Then, having him resurrected. And this is the crux of my question:

How does Jesus dying, and being crucified on the cross, equate to forgiving everyone's sins? How does Jesus dying equate to that forgiveness of sin for mankind? How does his blood then equate to the forgiveness of sin?

WHY, did God (have to?) send his son to Earth for mankind? If I remember correctly, Jesus knew he was going to die, and was meant to die, for our sins. I know I'm repeating a bit here.

I do not understand how Jesus coming to the Earth as the Son of God, and dying on the cross equates to taking the punishment (for lack of a better word) for mankind and absolving mankind's sin.

Everything I've tried searching for to help me understand always brings me to articles, or videos, that talk about Jesus dying and doing it for all man.

No one talked about how that happens, or why that happens, with his death. At this point it is just an analogy. I don't understand the mechanics of how his death does all these things for us.

I hope this is making sense to someone. It's hard to describe what I'm wanting to know.

If anyone understands what I'm asking is willing to give me their precious time to help explain this to me I would so greatly appreciate their help.

I have no problem looking up scriptures if they help explain things as well.

 

[talons]

Here is a link to read for you .

Clip from link .
The substitutionary atonement refers to Jesus Christ dying as a substitute for sinners. The Scriptures teach that all men are sinners (Romans 3:9-18, 23). The penalty for our sinfulness is death. Romans 6:23 reads, “For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.”

What is the substitutionary atonement? | GotQuestions.org

What is the substitutionary atonement? What does it mean that Jesus Christ died as our substitute?

www.gotquestions.org

 

[TrevorHL]

Greetings FinnleyGraves,

How does Jesus dying, and being crucified on the cross, equate to forgiving everyone's sins?

Firstly, I believe that Jesus died as our representative, not our substitute. Adam sinned and he was sentenced to return to the dust because of his sin, and God also passed this sentence on to his descendants. God gave birth to Jesus, the Son of God, not a Deity, a human descended from Adam through Mary, and he was specially prepared and as a result he always did the will of his Father and never sinned, overcoming the lusts of the flesh. He suffered all of the consequences of Adam's transgression, including death, but as he had not sinned the original sentence of returning to the dust was no longer valid in his case, and God raised him from the dead.

In his victory over death, he set a pattern for others to share in his victory when they unite in faith in what was accomplished and believe into him by faith and baptism, and God through Jesus is willing to forgive these believers of their sins and will grant them everlasting life when Jesus returns to set up his Kingdom on earth in Jerusalem and sits on the Temple Throne of David for the 1000 years. No, not everyone's sins, but the sins of those who have faith in Christ. Justification is by faith.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Debp]

God always required a blood sacrifice for atonement. Jesus was the sinless Lamb of God offered once. No more animal sacrifices needed.

The link @talons provided to you will be of help to you.

 

[Lambano]

No one talked about how that happens, or why that happens, with his death. At this point it is just an analogy. I don't understand the mechanics of how his death does all these things for us.

Hi, Finn.

A long time ago, on a long-defunct forum, I had some fascinating conversations with a young man who came to Christ from a Buddhist background. He considered blood sacrifices to be primitive, barbaric, and superstitious. (He had seen a Santeria sacrifice in Haiti and was justifiably appalled. Do Christians glorify human sacrifice?) So, I got a few theology books about the atonement and we went through it together. I'm not sure who learned more, him or me. But I ended up seeing the atonement differently.

Forget the mechanics of Atonement. There are 7 models of the Atonement: Ransom, Satisfaction, Penal Satisfaction, Moral Influence, Christus Victor, Governmental, and Scapegoat. All are grounded in the biblical narrative; none of them are without flaw. I want to talk about meaning, not mechanics. For an engineer who wants to take things apart and see what makes them go, that's not an easy thing to do.

20 I have been crucified with Christ, and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me. So the life I now live in the body, I live by faith in (or because of the faithfulness of) the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. - Galatians 2:20

Forgetting mechanics, in the world of abstract symbols, in becoming human, Jesus identifies Himself with sinful mankind. The wages of Sin is death, and His death is your death (and my death). And when we identify by faith with Him, your life becomes His life.

But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. - Romans 5:8

As for forgiveness, forgiveness already occurred in the heart of God. Christ on the cross is God's sign that we ARE forgiven. You can accept it, or not. I hope you can accept that good news.

18 And all these things are from God who reconciled us to himself through Christ and who has given us the ministry of reconciliation. 19 In other words, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting people’s trespasses against them, and he has given us the message of reconciliation. 20 Therefore we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making his plea through us. We plead on Christ’s behalf, “Be reconciled to God!” 21 God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God. - 2 Corinthians 18-21

You ARE forgiven; now it's time to be reconciled to God.

 

[Grailhunter]

I know the story of Jesus's birth, death, and resurrection. And I know the story of his crucifixion.

This is where my question comes into play. There is something I don't "fully" understand. I have a very superficial understand of my question. Hopefully someone can understand what I'm asking and help me to better understand.

I don't fully understand sending Jesus to the earth to live as a man. Then, having him resurrected. And this is the crux of my question:

How does Jesus dying, and being crucified on the cross, equate to forgiving everyone's sins? How does Jesus dying equate to that forgiveness of sin for mankind? How does his blood then equate to the forgiveness of sin?

WHY, did God (have to?) send his son to Earth for mankind? If I remember correctly, Jesus knew he was going to die, and was meant to die, for our sins. I know I'm repeating a bit here.

I do not understand how Jesus coming to the Earth as the Son of God, and dying on the cross equates to taking the punishment (for lack of a better word) for mankind and absolving mankind's sin.

Everything I've tried searching for to help me understand always brings me to articles, or videos, that talk about Jesus dying and doing it for all man.

No one talked about how that happens, or why that happens, with his death. At this point it is just an analogy. I don't understand the mechanics of how his death does all these things for us.

I hope this is making sense to someone. It's hard to describe what I'm wanting to know.

If anyone understands what I'm asking is willing to give me their precious time to help explain this to me I would so greatly appreciate their help.

I have no problem looking up scriptures if they help explain things as well.

Did you get your question answered?

 

[Jericho]

How does Jesus dying, and being crucified on the cross, equate to forgiving everyone's sins? How does Jesus dying equate to that forgiveness of sin for mankind? How does his blood then equate to the forgiveness of sin?

WHY, did God (have to?) send his son to Earth for mankind? If I remember correctly, Jesus knew he was going to die, and was meant to die, for our sins. I know I'm repeating a bit here.

I guess we should start at the beginning. I would define sin as anything contrary to the will and nature of God. When Adam sinned, it caused a spiritual separation between man and God. And because Adam was the first, the master template for us all, that sin nature was passed down to all humanity.

God and sin cannot mix. It would be like trying to mix oil and water. So, it would be impossible for someone in that fallen state to be in the presence of a holy God. That meant that when humans died as the result of sin entering the world, they would automatically go to a place of eternal separation (hell, Sheol, or whatever you want to call it).

In the Old Testament, God instructed the Israelites to atone for their sins by shedding the blood of animals. The animals essentially took on their guilt and bore their punishment. There is something about blood that transcends the physical and acts as a bridge between the natural and supernatural. The shedding of innocent blood satisfies some sort of spiritual law that perhaps we do not fully comprehend. But life is in the blood, so their sins were covered, but only temporarily.

Only God could provide a permanent solution. He did that by bypassing humanity's sin nature, which seems to be inherited through the father, and substituting himself. That allowed Jesus to be born sinless, which is why he's called the second Adam. Jesus then became the perfect sacrifice. In his divinity, he was able to atone for everyone's sins, past, present, and future, simultaneously, once and for all.

Jesus atoned for our sins in ways we cannot. That's why those in hell who have not accepted Jesus' atonement must atone for their own sins. They have no animals to make atonement. The only thing they have left to sacrifice is themselves. The problem is that the price of atonement can never be met. So they are condemned to atone for their sins for all eternity. Hopefully, that explains the "why" and, to an extent, the "how".

p.s. There is a book by Dr. Hugh Ross, called Beyond the Cosmos, which may shed more light on this.

 

[liafailrock]

I know the story of Jesus's birth, death, and resurrection. And I know the story of his crucifixion.

This is where my question comes into play. There is something I don't "fully" understand. I have a very superficial understand of my question. Hopefully someone can understand what I'm asking and help me to better understand.

I don't fully understand sending Jesus to the earth to live as a man. Then, having him resurrected. And this is the crux of my question:

How does Jesus dying, and being crucified on the cross, equate to forgiving everyone's sins? How does Jesus dying equate to that forgiveness of sin for mankind? How does his blood then equate to the forgiveness of sin?

WHY, did God (have to?) send his son to Earth for mankind? If I remember correctly, Jesus knew he was going to die, and was meant to die, for our sins. I know I'm repeating a bit here.

I do not understand how Jesus coming to the Earth as the Son of God, and dying on the cross equates to taking the punishment (for lack of a better word) for mankind and absolving mankind's sin.

Everything I've tried searching for to help me understand always brings me to articles, or videos, that talk about Jesus dying and doing it for all man.

No one talked about how that happens, or why that happens, with his death. At this point it is just an analogy. I don't understand the mechanics of how his death does all these things for us.

I hope this is making sense to someone. It's hard to describe what I'm wanting to know.

If anyone understands what I'm asking is willing to give me their precious time to help explain this to me I would so greatly appreciate their help.

I have no problem looking up scriptures if they help explain things as well.

It goes back to the garden. Adam and Eve were created (flesh beings) in a state of innocence. God's plan was to see if they trusted Him enough and were obedient enough to refrain from eating from the tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil and instead eat of the tree of life (I'll spare the "why" for now). The Knowledge of Good and Evil represented man wanting to be God and Judge on his own, I.e. his own God. But the Lord said that if they were to eat of it, they will SURELY die (since they are without God who alone is immortal). Satan, as the Serpent (c.f. Revelation 12) deceived Eve and Adam went along with the temptation that they will not die and their eyes would be opened as Gods. Actually, Satan was correct! But... the wrong tree! They ate of it and Adam's race has been dying since, and God Himself cannot reverse that lest He be found a liar. And likewise, the reason for guarding the tree of Life once expelled. Hold that thought.

Now, enter Jesus, the Son of God. He was the last Adam. He had to reverse this trend after mankind learned their lesson (to put it simplistically). He had to die as the penalty for our sins and thus taking our place which reversed what Adam and Eve did thus putting mankind back to a state of innocence. God's wrath was taken on Jesus for those sins. But note, even in the Old Testament sins were forgiven with sacrifice so why Jesus? Well, did we ever see a sacrifice rise again? One can be forgiven and still die from sin. Forgiveness puts us in Fellowship with God as being declared innocent but the Lord said we will SURELY die. So now what? Jesus not only died to pay that penalty, but raised again which is like Innocent Adam and Even now eating from the tree of Life and at this point become changed into immortal beings and not until then once we identify with Christ by faith. At this point this is why under Christ we have a "better covenant" given that the resurrection component gives us eternal life. In short, if it was only the cross (or sacrifice) but no resurrection, we'd be forgiven but our old nature would not change - we'd still die. To become righteous, one needs the righteousness of God, i.e having His Spirit within us to bring us back to life one day. I hope that helped. Blessings.

 

[RenewedStrength316]

I know the story of Jesus's birth, death, and resurrection. And I know the story of his crucifixion.

This is where my question comes into play. There is something I don't "fully" understand. I have a very superficial understand of my question. Hopefully someone can understand what I'm asking and help me to better understand.

I don't fully understand sending Jesus to the earth to live as a man. Then, having him resurrected. And this is the crux of my question:

How does Jesus dying, and being crucified on the cross, equate to forgiving everyone's sins? How does Jesus dying equate to that forgiveness of sin for mankind? How does his blood then equate to the forgiveness of sin?

WHY, did God (have to?) send his son to Earth for mankind? If I remember correctly, Jesus knew he was going to die, and was meant to die, for our sins. I know I'm repeating a bit here.

I do not understand how Jesus coming to the Earth as the Son of God, and dying on the cross equates to taking the punishment (for lack of a better word) for mankind and absolving mankind's sin.

Everything I've tried searching for to help me understand always brings me to articles, or videos, that talk about Jesus dying and doing it for all man.

No one talked about how that happens, or why that happens, with his death. At this point it is just an analogy. I don't understand the mechanics of how his death does all these things for us.

I hope this is making sense to someone. It's hard to describe what I'm wanting to know.

If anyone understands what I'm asking is willing to give me their precious time to help explain this to me I would so greatly appreciate their help.

I have no problem looking up scriptures if they help explain things as well.

Brother, your question is real, and it’s one that many believers wrestle with, even after years of faith. The death of Jesus on the cross is not just a story or analogy—it’s the center of God’s rescue plan for a lost world. Here’s the truth:

1. Why did God send Jesus?
Because sin is a debt. And sin is death. It’s a cosmic fracture—an offense against a holy God. The Bible says:

> “The wages of sin is death…” (Romans 6:23)



No human can pay this debt, because every one of us is guilty. We can’t earn forgiveness. We can’t fix the fracture ourselves. That’s why Jesus came—to pay the price we could never pay.

2. How does Jesus’ death pay this debt?
Jesus was fully God and fully man—perfect and sinless. He took our place. He bore the punishment for sin that we deserved. Isaiah prophesied this centuries before:

> “But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was on him,
and by his wounds we are healed.” (Isaiah 53:5)



When Jesus died, He took on the full weight of God’s wrath against sin. His blood—the life poured out—became the perfect, once-for-all sacrifice.

3. Why the blood?
In the Old Testament, blood represented life. Sacrifices were made to cover sin temporarily, but they had to be repeated. Jesus’ blood is different—it is the eternal sacrifice that cleanses completely:

> “Without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.” (Hebrews 9:22)



His blood is the payment that satisfies God’s justice and opens the way for mercy.

4. How does this bring forgiveness to us?
Because through faith in Jesus, we are “clothed” in His righteousness. His death covers our sin, so God no longer sees our guilt but sees the perfect life of Jesus instead.

> “God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.” (2 Corinthians 5:21)



It’s a divine exchange. Our sin on Him; His righteousness on us.

5. Why was Jesus’ resurrection necessary?
If Jesus stayed dead, that would mean sin and death won. But His resurrection is God’s stamp of approval on the sacrifice. It proves Jesus conquered death and sin for good.

> “If Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins.” (1 Corinthians 15:17)



The resurrection assures us that forgiveness is real, power is available, and eternal life is promised.


---

In short:
Jesus came because we couldn’t save ourselves.
He died because the price had to be paid.
His blood covers our sins because it is the perfect sacrifice.
His resurrection proves that death is defeated and forgiveness is secure.

This is not just an analogy—it’s the core of reality. God’s justice and mercy collided on the cross, and through Jesus, we are invited into new life.

If you want to dive deeper, I recommend starting with Romans 3–5, Hebrews 9, and Isaiah 53. And never stop asking these questions—they refine your faith and deepen your walk.

 

[TrevorHL]

Greetings RenewedStrength316,

Jesus was fully God and fully man

Jesus was not God. He is a human, the Son of God by birth, character and resurrection.

When Jesus died, He took on the full weight of God’s wrath against sin.

Jesus died as our representative, not as our substitute. We still suffer and die, but we can share in his victory over sin and death by belief in what was achieved and identifying with his death and resurrection by water baptism. God's wrath was not exercised in the death of Jesus. God's righteousness was revealed in Jesus' suffering and death as Jesus voluntarily submitted to Gods arrangement imposed on Adam and his descendants.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[RenewedStrength316]

Greetings RenewedStrength316,

Jesus was not God. He is a human, the Son of God by birth, character and resurrection.

Jesus died as our representative, not as our substitute. We still suffer and die, but we can share in his victory over sin and death by belief in what was achieved and identifying with his death and resurrection by water baptism. God's wrath was not exercised in the death of Jesus. God's righteousness was revealed in Jesus' suffering and death as Jesus voluntarily submitted to Gods arrangement imposed on Adam and his descendants.

Kind regards
Trevor

Hi Trevor,

Thank you for taking the time to respond respectfully. I can tell you’ve thought deeply about what you believe, and I appreciate that spirit of sincerity. That said, I must speak plainly — not to argue, but because I believe the gospel is too sacred to remain silent when it's being redefined.

You said that Jesus was not God — that He’s simply the Son of God by birth, character, and resurrection. But Scripture tells a different story:

> "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God... and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us."
(John 1:1, 14)



> "For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily."
(Colossians 2:9)



Jesus didn’t just represent God — He is God in the flesh. If He isn’t fully divine, then His sacrifice couldn’t atone for the sin of the world. A created being cannot absorb the eternal weight of sin. Only the infinite, holy, spotless Lamb could do that.

You also said Jesus died as our representative, not our substitute. But Isaiah prophesied with precision:

> "He was pierced for our transgressions... the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all."
(Isaiah 53:5–6)



Jesus didn’t just model obedience — He bore wrath. He stood where we should have stood. That’s love beyond comprehension, not merely example.

You mentioned God’s wrath wasn’t involved in Jesus’ death. But Romans 3:25 says:

> "God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood, to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate His righteousness... so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus."



That’s the divine tension: mercy and justice met at the cross. God didn’t overlook sin — He poured it out on His Son. Jesus wasn’t a martyr. He was the Mediator.

And while baptism is indeed a beautiful command of faith, it doesn’t save us. The thief on the cross was never baptized, yet Jesus told him, “Today you will be with Me in paradise” (Luke 23:43). Salvation is by grace through faith (Ephesians 2:8–9), not works, not symbols, not human effort.

I share this not to debate — but because I care. The cross is everything. If we lose its meaning, we lose our hope.

Blessings to you as you continue to seek and study. I pray the Holy Spirit leads us both deeper into truth, and that we’ll all bow before the Lamb not as scholars, but as redeemed sinners washed in blood.

— Shane

 

[Titus]

The thief on the cross was never baptized,

Hello RenewedStrength316

How do you know the thief wasn't baptized?
I'm not implying he was or was not.
I'm wondering how you know he wasn't.
Thanks

 

[RenewedStrength316]

Hello RenewedStrength316

How do you know the thief wasn't baptized?
I'm not implying he was or was not.
I'm wondering how you know he wasn't.
Thanks

Thanks for asking. The thief on the cross was never recorded as being baptized in Scripture. The Gospels make it clear who Jesus was speaking to and the context of their last moments. Baptism was an essential step commanded by Jesus for all believers (Matthew 28:19-20), a public declaration of repentance and identification with Christ’s death and resurrection.

The thief’s salvation came purely through faith in Jesus’ finished work at that moment. Baptism is important and commanded, but God’s grace can reach into extraordinary moments, especially at death, where formal rites may not have been possible.

So, I don’t say definitively that he wasn’t baptized—because Scripture doesn’t say—but there’s no record of it. What Scripture highlights is faith alone as the thief’s key to salvation. Baptism isn’t the source of salvation—it’s the obedient response to it.

That thief’s faith was raw, immediate, and grasped the mercy of Christ in the face of death. That’s what saves.

 

[Titus]

Thanks for asking. The thief on the cross was never recorded as being baptized in Scripture

Exactly, little was said of him.
We only know of His life when nailed to a cross. Nothing else is said about him.

So, I don’t say definitively that he wasn’t baptized—because Scripture doesn’t say—but there’s no record of it.

But you taught he was not.
That's speaking where the word has not spoken.
Theres no record, so theres no way of knowing one way or the other.

Baptism was an essential step commanded by Jesus for all believers (Matthew 28:19-20)

This preaching of Christ's baptism was after His ressurection.
The thief was not accountable to baptism in Jesus name.
He lived under the old law. So if he were baptized he was baptized during Jesus' life in John's baptism, Mark 1:4.
The thief was never required to believe in the death, burial and ressurection as Jesus never ressurected in the thief's lifetime. He could not have believed in the ressurection as he never lived to witness it.

 

[Rockerduck]

Thanks for asking. The thief on the cross was never recorded as being baptized in Scripture. The Gospels make it clear who Jesus was speaking to and the context of their last moments. Baptism was an essential step commanded by Jesus for all believers (Matthew 28:19-20), a public declaration of repentance and identification with Christ’s death and resurrection.

The thief’s salvation came purely through faith in Jesus’ finished work at that moment. Baptism is important and commanded, but God’s grace can reach into extraordinary moments, especially at death, where formal rites may not have been possible.

So, I don’t say definitively that he wasn’t baptized—because Scripture doesn’t say—but there’s no record of it. What Scripture highlights is faith alone as the thief’s key to salvation. Baptism isn’t the source of salvation—it’s the obedient response to it.

That thief’s faith was raw, immediate, and grasped the mercy of Christ in the face of death. That’s what saves.

Baptism is not a requirement for salvation. Immersion by water baptism is to identify yourself with the death burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Many have died in building fires, shipwrecks, and in prisons, etc., accepting Christ before dying.

 

[TrevorHL]

Greetings again RenewedStrength316,

I can tell you’ve thought deeply about what you believe, and I appreciate that spirit of sincerity. That said, I must speak plainly — not to argue, but because I believe the gospel is too sacred to remain silent when it's being redefined.

Yes, our theology differs in many areas. I was introduced to a different and wrong view of the Atonement when I was 16, and the subject has been of interest since then, and I am now 81. I know very well the standard view and thoroughly reject it.

You said that Jesus was not God — that He’s simply the Son of God by birth, character, and resurrection. But Scripture tells a different story:
> "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God... and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us." (John 1:1, 14)

I understand that The Word in John 1:1 is a personification similar to the Wise Woman WISDOM in Proverbs 8. All that is revealed in the term The Word was revealed in Jesus the Only Begotten of the Father, the Son of God, born with Mary as his mother and God the Father as his father. Conception, not incarnation. Jesus was full of grace and truth.

If He isn’t fully divine, then His sacrifice couldn’t atone for the sin of the world. A created being cannot absorb the eternal weight of sin. Only the infinite, holy, spotless Lamb could do that.

Interesting claim, but not based on Bible revelation. Yes Jesus was the spotless Lamb of God. He was a human that never sinned and as a result he was able in himself to reverse the sentence of death placed upon Adam and his descendants. We share his victory.

> "He was pierced for our transgressions... the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all." (Isaiah 53:5–6)

Yes, he is our representative. We in effect have by our sins endorsed his crucifixion, as did the whole range of people who actually participated, but if we acknowledge what was achieved in his death and resurrection God is willing to forgive our sins - forgiveness not purgation.

Jesus didn’t just model obedience — He bore wrath. He stood where we should have stood. That’s love beyond comprehension, not merely example.

Gods anger was not vented against Jesus. He set forth his sacrifice in love John 3:16.

You mentioned God’s wrath wasn’t involved in Jesus’ death. But Romans 3:25 says:
> "God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood, to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate His righteousness... so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus."
That’s the divine tension: mercy and justice met at the cross. God didn’t overlook sin — He poured it out on His Son. Jesus wasn’t a martyr. He was the Mediator.

Yes, righteousness, justice and mercy meet together in all that was transacted, but God's wrath against Jesus is excluded.

And while baptism is indeed a beautiful command of faith, it doesn’t save us. The thief on the cross was never baptized, yet Jesus told him, “Today you will be with Me in paradise” (Luke 23:43). Salvation is by grace through faith (Ephesians 2:8–9), not works, not symbols, not human effort.

Baptism is God's appointed method of identifying by an affectionate belief with the death and resurrection of Jesus for the forgiveness of sins. The thief on the cross was crucified with Jesus and fulfilled the concept of baptism in reality. He had a greater faith in the resurrection of Jesus and his future role of Messiah and the Kingdom when he would return than most of his contemporaries at that particular time.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[ScottA]

I know the story of Jesus's birth, death, and resurrection. And I know the story of his crucifixion.

This is where my question comes into play. There is something I don't "fully" understand. I have a very superficial understand of my question. Hopefully someone can understand what I'm asking and help me to better understand.

I don't fully understand sending Jesus to the earth to live as a man. Then, having him resurrected. And this is the crux of my question:

How does Jesus dying, and being crucified on the cross, equate to forgiving everyone's sins? How does Jesus dying equate to that forgiveness of sin for mankind? How does his blood then equate to the forgiveness of sin?

WHY, did God (have to?) send his son to Earth for mankind? If I remember correctly, Jesus knew he was going to die, and was meant to die, for our sins. I know I'm repeating a bit here.

I do not understand how Jesus coming to the Earth as the Son of God, and dying on the cross equates to taking the punishment (for lack of a better word) for mankind and absolving mankind's sin.

Everything I've tried searching for to help me understand always brings me to articles, or videos, that talk about Jesus dying and doing it for all man.

No one talked about how that happens, or why that happens, with his death. At this point it is just an analogy. I don't understand the mechanics of how his death does all these things for us.

I hope this is making sense to someone. It's hard to describe what I'm wanting to know.

If anyone understands what I'm asking is willing to give me their precious time to help explain this to me I would so greatly appreciate their help.

I have no problem looking up scriptures if they help explain things as well.

God's creation of the heavens and the earth, is an act of cleansing.

It is written that with God, there is "no shadow of turning." Meaning, no evening or morning, no darkness. Still, there was evil and rebellion in high places, in the spirit. Thus, darkness existed only within the heart--the heart of the otherwise eternal son of God, Satan. In order to draw the darkness out and destroy it, the shadows of turning needed to be created that do not otherwise exist in heaven. That is what this world is--a dividing of the light from the darkness, which is the formula for the creation of matter: The dividing of eternity into increments of time. Which could not be done within heaven without heaven being made unholy as the world is unholy, made so by the creation of darkness by form--revealing the darkness. Space, time, and matter, are that creation, causing the eternal nature of God to be divided into times, and ultimately hearts--hearts revealed. That is what the world is.

Thus, day by day--"the evening and the morning", the light is divided from the darkness, incrementally, until the last day. What does that look like--I mean--other than what is obvious of the world we live in? It looks like a visual formation of what everyone, as if every heart beat within God himself is being made manifest in His "image", and what "each one in his own order" (or time) believes, whether good or evil, revealed as evidence before the Judgement, that final divide that brings an end to the darkness and evil. "Then comes the end"--of this world.

It is Jesus' coming and act of sacrifice, that reveals also the good, and the salvation of God at work within the divide, "within" the hearts of men. Without which, the dividing form would not show, would not reveal the light and the good, or the greater power of God to overcome evil and darkness. In other words, darkness is revealed, but also the goodness and glory of God.

 

[David Lamb]

Exactly, little was said of him.
We only know of His life when nailed to a cross. Nothing else is said about him.

Yes, and we know from Scripture that to start with, both of the thieves mocked Jesus:

“Likewise the chief priests also, mocking with the scribes and elders, said, “He saved others; Himself He cannot save. If He is the King of Israel, let Him now come down from the cross, and we will believe Him. He trusted in God; let Him deliver Him now if He will have Him; for He said, ‘I am the Son of God.’” Even the robbers who were crucified with Him reviled Him with the same thing.” (Mt 27:41-44 NKJV)

It was only later that one thief changed, and asked Jesus to remember him.. All that makes it unlikely that he would have been baptized before being crucified, and it would not be possible for him to be baptized whilst hanging on the cross.

 

[Titus]

It was only later that one thief changed, and asked Jesus to remember him.. All that makes it unlikely that he would have been baptized before being crucified,

He repented on the cross showing he had a good heart. Otherwise Jesus would not of saved him.
No one knows if he was good or bad and for how long before being crucified.
I will not speculate either way.

Unlikely is an assumption.
Something we are taught you cannot do with Scripture.
Respect the silence of the scriptures.
Do not take away or add to the word of God.

Psalm 19:13,
- keep back your servant from presumptuous sins, let them not have dominion over me, then I shall be blameless and I shall be innocent of great transgression

 

[David Lamb]

He repented on the cross showing he had a good heart. Otherwise Jesus would not of saved him.
No one knows if he was good or bad and for how long before being crucified.
I will not speculate either way.

Unlikely is an assumption.
Something we are taught you cannot do with Scripture.
Respect the silence of the scriptures.
Do not take away or add to the word of God.

Psalm 19:13,
- keep back your servant from presumptuous sins, let them not have dominion over me, then I shall be blameless and I shall be innocent of great transgression

First of all, let me assure you that I wasn't seeking to take away from or add to Scripture. That is why I used the word "unlikely", not "impossible." My reasoning is twofold: First, we are not told that he was baptized, and second, how could he have been baptized whilst hanging on a cross?

Also, I would say that he knew he didn't have a good heart which is why he needed to repent, and needed a Saviour. As I said before, both he and his fellow-thief had mocked Jesus on the cross to start with. Mocking the Saviour doesn't result from having a good heart.

Lastly, I love your quote from Psalm 19.