Learning about Orthodoxy

[amigo de christo]

So you're saying the minute Paul died the early church fathers became heretical?

Orthodoxy was the first church. Catholicism split from that, then came Martin Luther and the five Solas.

If heresy was introduced the moment Paul died, Protestantism is way downstream from that.

heresy was already tryingto come in , in even pauls days .
And look at the battle JOHN had with the seducers who had began following anti christ and that which is of anti christ .
BUT , BUT and this BUT is key
THERE have always been sheep that did not conform to the ever subtile ways of men and deadly doctrines and heresies .
They have bled before
AND WE IS ABOUT TO BLEED AGAIN BIG TIME .
Soon the ecumincal phase of the all inclusive WELL favored harlot
Will finish its course . THEN COMETH the crusades
against any and against all that did not conform to this one world love religoin that made all religoins one .
ITS COMING sister . fear it not . fear it not , fear them not .
TO live is CHRIST and to die is gain . The well favored harlot cries to the decieved
and says alas my children , let us solace ourselves in love
let us be one peoples . But the dead know not THIS WHORE leadeth only to death
and her love will save none but deceive all .

 

[amigo de christo]

Priests, robes, incense, rites/rituals, liturgies, tabernacle, etc are all trappings of old covenant Temple worship. The new covenant is in the new way of the Spirit which is the simplicity of Christ, or it is not the new covenant at all.

Yes, we are exhorted to speak the same things...speaking the revealed word of God, which is by the Spirit...the true doctrine that Jesus brought and that the apostles taught. But Jesus sent us out as sheep among wolves...He sent us out into a battle in other words.......He knew the hungry uncrucified flesh of man was going to taint things and cause problems and divisions and that we would need to overcome it. Growing in the faith is not cut and dried and neatly tied up with a bow, it can be a messy journey/war and sometimes two steps forward, one step back. It is better to have the life of the Spirit with a messy battle, than to have certainty and neat and tidy formulas without the life of the Spirit. It's tempting and much easier to have a neat and tidy religion than it is to follow Christ. I think one reason Israel of old wanted a King Saul was because they were weary of the "uncertainty" of following and trusting an invisible God.

And GOD told that to samuel . He told samuel they have not rejected you , THEY HAVE REJECTED ME .
they were DONE with following GOD and desired a king as did the other nations have .
Kinda reminds me of these groups
that are DONE with , IF EVER THEY EVEN DID TO BEGIN WITH , TRUSTING IN GOD
and desire rather presidents and men to lead and to save them . OH yeah we gots many problems within christainity today .

 

[amigo de christo]

GIVE US kings of this earthern realm
for we desire the earthen kingdom
MANY have done all to convince themselves that somehow the earthen kingdoms of men
Is somehow tied into the SPIRITUAL . boy o boy do we got problems .
ANY TIME christendom has tied the heavenly in with the earthly
And put hope and trust in political leaders
and tied the church into kings and or ceasars or etc
MAN has it led to problems and even to blood as church and state put to death and persecuted
ALL THAT DID NOT CONFORM to its so called mindset .
WELL now we has us a WORLD STATE CHURCH and it calls all to join
by means of what it calls love . BUT THIS INCLUSIVE WORLD STATE CHURCH
WILL SOON persecute and even put to death all who did not conform to the image of what it called love
it called obediance , it called social gospel , it called interfaith . WE have no idea
WHAT IS ABOUT TO OCCUR .
MANY true saints are about to bleed
but the one world love religoin WONT SEE IT as that . rather its OH we gots to get rid of these dangerous
potential terroits . THEY gonna kill sheep and think they do GODS WILL .

 

[Wynona]

Priests, robes, incense, rites/rituals, liturgies, tabernacle, etc are all trappings of old covenant Temple worship. The new covenant is in the new way of the Spirit which is the simplicity of Christ, or it is not the new covenant at all.

What if the early church worshipped this way?

Having a Protestant background, it's easy to think that Christians always worshipped in modest and bare trappings with maybe a wooden Cross at the back.

But it was the Protestant Reformation trying to reject Catholicism in the 16th that did away with icons and ornate buildings. Although the Lutherans are liturgical to this day.

And it's only because of Protestantism that we think of Christianity as this super individualized "me and my Bible" type of faith.

It was "us and our Bible" for years, and it's funny how much pressure we got to find a church. We did, but ironically we're now being pushed to be churchless because its not a Protestant one.

 

[amigo de christo]

What if the early church worshipped this way?

Having a Protestant background, it's easy to think that Christians always worshipped in modest and bare trappings with maybe a wooden Cross at the back.

But it was the Protestant Reformation trying to reject Catholicism in the 16th that did away with icons and ornate buildings. Although the Lutherans are liturgical to this day.

And it's only because of Protestantism that we think of Christianity as this super individualized "me and my Bible" type of faith.

It was "us and our Bible" for years, and it's funny how much pressure we got to find a church. We did, but ironically we're now being pushed to be churchless because its not a Protestant one.

My advice . Let us keep in the bible . When i said ALL have been infiltrated , I mean all .
The eastern othordoxy , at least its key leaders and leader , HAVE BOWED to
the collective agenda . I watch the eastern ruler bow to franics and his unity .
WE are BEING deceived .
I know certain things might make folks feel good . But my advice is WE must BEWARE
all OF IT . People run into places because they seem SPIRITUAL
and sure some stuff done might be okay . BUT THEY ALLL infected .
The only reason for the great split of the RCC and what would later become the eastern othrodoxy
Was not all due to good reasons . Its like i often say , YE can take the peoples outta the HARLOT
but often times you just cannot get the HARLOT outta them .

 

[amigo de christo]

What if the early church worshipped this way?

Having a Protestant background, it's easy to think that Christians always worshipped in modest and bare trappings with maybe a wooden Cross at the back.

But it was the Protestant Reformation trying to reject Catholicism in the 16th that did away with icons and ornate buildings. Although the Lutherans are liturgical to this day.

And it's only because of Protestantism that we think of Christianity as this super individualized "me and my Bible" type of faith.

It was "us and our Bible" for years, and it's funny how much pressure we got to find a church. We did, but ironically we're now being pushed to be churchless because its not a Protestant one.

examine this church sister .
I bet anything its big on this social justice
and or this finding common ground . I bet its in there .
Maybe not in everyone , but you watch out for it .
THEY come in with big speeches about COMMUNITY centeres
work places and etc where we are community builders .
They often talk a lot about love and throw that word around , unity and throw that word around .
In fact the focus is on a very social kinda gospel . My advice , THAT IS TOTAL BAD NEWS .
but due to it does blend in good works and talks about love , many seem to fall for it .

 

[amigo de christo]

What if the early church worshipped this way?

Having a Protestant background, it's easy to think that Christians always worshipped in modest and bare trappings with maybe a wooden Cross at the back.

But it was the Protestant Reformation trying to reject Catholicism in the 16th that did away with icons and ornate buildings. Although the Lutherans are liturgical to this day.

And it's only because of Protestantism that we think of Christianity as this super individualized "me and my Bible" type of faith.

It was "us and our Bible" for years, and it's funny how much pressure we got to find a church. We did, but ironically we're now being pushed to be churchless because its not a Protestant one.

one more key thing to watch out for . if its real big on comtemplative prayer , centering prayer
chants and repetions and hums and sounds , GET OUT .
THIS TOO IS A MAJOR snare .

 

[Wynona]

Here is a quote from a Reddit post listing issues with Protestantism. I thought the Scripture he referenced was spot on to why I can't accept Sola Scriptura.


"
We should rely on our own personal interpretation of Scripture

And we have the prophetic word made more sure. You will do well to pay attention to this as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. 20 First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, 21 because no prophecy ever came by the impulse of man, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God."

 

[Marvelloustime]

And look at the battle JOHN had with the seducers who had began following anti christ and that which is of anti christ .
BUT , BUT and this BUT is key
THERE have always been sheep that did not conform to the ever subtile ways of men and deadly doctrines and heresies .
They have bled before
AND WE IS ABOUT TO BLEED AGAIN BIG TIME .
Soon the ecumincal phase of the all inclusive WELL favored harlot
Will finish its course . THEN COMETH the crusades
against any and against all that did not conform to this one world love religoin that made all religoins one .
ITS COMING sister . fear it not . fear it not , fear them not .
TO live is CHRIST and to die is gain . The well favored harlot cries to the decieved
and says alas my children , let us solace ourselves in love
let us be one peoples . But the dead know not THIS WHORE leadeth only to death
and her love will save none but deceive all .

@amigo de christo

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

And we have the prophetic word made more sure. You will do well to pay attention to this as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. 20 First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, 21 because no prophecy ever came by the impulse of man, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God."

This is a reference to 2 Peter 1:16-21 which is a call to follow God's Word because it is inspired by the Holy Spirit.

Walking in to so called orthodoxy (today's orthodox church) will in fact lead you away from the teaching of the Lord in to the darkened wisdom of man dressed up to apper to be God's wisdom

2 Peter 1:16-21
For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.
We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

The prophecy being spoken of is what God has already said in scripture.

Revelation 19:10
the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. (what Jesus, THE Word of God says)

Hebrews 1:1,2
God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

2 Timothy 3:15-17
And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

2 Peter 1:3,4
According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Jesus said the Holy Ghost would lead us in to ALL Truth (John 16:13),
and Jesus said God's Word IS Truth (John 17:17)

Romans 8:14
For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. (which is always based on what God has said in His Word

What if the early church worshipped this way?

The "early" church did some things not of God, that were not taught by the Lord.

It sounds like you've already been tricked by the enemy and that's too bad.

It was "us and our Bible" for years, and it's funny how much pressure we got to find a church. We did, but ironically we're now being pushed to be churchless because its not a Protestant one.

Too bad you are allowing the enemy to "push" you in to anything rather than being led by the Holy Spirit based on what God has already said in His Word.

Anytime there is "pushing" going on, that's how you know the devil is behind it.

Just ignore these people in your life that are "pushing" and walk with the Lord instead.

It seems like you have fear, anxiety, and worry about all this which is not of the Lord

 

[Hepzibah]

Walking in to so called orthodoxy (today's orthodox church) will in fact lead you away from the teaching of the Lord in to the darkened wisdom of man dressed up to apper to be God's wisdom

It is the opposite, and walking into any Protestant or Catholic Church today will do this. They are the ones teaching the wisdom of man, and it is the Orthodox Church that still holds the teaching of the doctrine of holiness, which has been called theosis since the beginning, and entire sanctification in the western watered down form, that man is not saved unless he is saved from sin and sins no more, when he has been baptised (by the Spirit).

They are not perfect in their practise, nor are they teaching the fullness of this teaching today, but it is there, to be seen in the liturgy, in the writings of the ECF's and it is the most important thing over everything - how to be saved.

 

[Lizbeth]

What if the early church worshipped this way?

Having a Protestant background, it's easy to think that Christians always worshipped in modest and bare trappings with maybe a wooden Cross at the back.

Have a read of Galatians 4 sister, especially what it says about elements of this world. Religious trappings are all about external show of things...external visible physical temporal elements of this world...which elements of old covenant worship burned up in 70AD. Whereas the new covenant is about eternal spiritual things. Jesus didn't wear special clothes or follow a liturgy or rites/rituals, or build fancy buildings, etc.....He simply went around doing good as the Father led Him, and simply spoke and preached to the people wherever there was room. We are to be people of the Way.....a Way of life in the Spirit.

There are no instructions in the bible about any trappings for the church, no mention or even hints at all. The early church simply took turns meeting from house to house. Where we gather together to meet with the Lord and minister to Him and one another is irrelevant, it is simply a practical matter. There are no special priests under the new covenant either.......now we are a "priesthood of all believers" with Christ Himself being High Priest.

And it's only because of Protestantism that we think of Christianity as this super individualized "me and my Bible" type of faith.

It is about the individual soul and the Lord on one level, but in another way we are to gather together ordinarily. Just that these aren't ordinary times now because there is a falling away happening and God is judging His house...sending strong delusion.. What I believe we are to be about right now is preparing for the return of Christ, the bride making herself ready, which is not an easy process.....we need patience and perseverance while God burns away and kills off our flesh nature in the wilderness. "Go my people, enter your rooms until my wrath passes by."

 

[Lizbeth]

Here is a quote from a Reddit post listing issues with Protestantism. I thought the Scripture he referenced was spot on to why I can't accept Sola Scriptura.


"
We should rely on our own personal interpretation of Scripture

And we have the prophetic word made more sure. You will do well to pay attention to this as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. 20 First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, 21 because no prophecy ever came by the impulse of man, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God."

How about "sola follow Christ"...? :) No need to follow either Protestantism or Eastern Orthodox (false dichotomy to pit one against the other)...just follow Jesus.

The bible says to lean not to our own understanding...we need to look to the Lord and His Spirit for understanding. Yes, sometimes we'll get some things wrong, mostly because of not discerning the difference between our own thinking and the Holy Spirit, but that improves with time and experience and if our hearts are right, humble and teachable, the Lord can rescue us out of mistakes...He is a good shepherd.

 

[amigo de christo]

How about "sola follow Christ"...? :) No need to follow either Protestantism or Eastern Orthodox (false dichotomy to pit one against the other)...just follow Jesus.

The bible says to lean not to our own understanding...we need to look to the Lord and His Spirit for understanding. Yes, sometimes we'll get some things wrong, mostly because of not discerning the difference between our own thinking and the Holy Spirit, but that improves with time and experience and if our hearts are right, humble and teachable, the Lord can rescue us out of mistakes...He is a good shepherd.

SPOT ON right my dear sister . SOLA CHRIST . ONE GOD ONE LORD ONE SPIRIT and one BOOK called the bible
from which we can learn and grow as well . To the trenches . It is not written that we shall live
by our emotions and feelings , But by EVERY WORD OF GOD . WHICH the sheep DO LIVE BY HIM . KING JESUS THE WORD
of GOD . too many get wrapped up into
things that make THEM seem and feel spiritual . And while not all things are evil , MANY things are .
WE cannot get wrapped up in sensualism . We must not get distracted by appearances of things .
WE must simply LIVE BY and FOR CHRIST . stay in the scriptures as well to be refreshed , to be stirred up by way of remembrance .
To learn and to grow . Too many are into what MAKES us feel good . AND while its true
TRUTH and seeing others live by the TRUTH makes me feel good , ITS ALWAYS GOOD to be zealously affected in A GOOD THING
not in an appearance of , BUT IN THE REAL DEAL SISTER .

 

[amigo de christo]

How about "sola follow Christ"...? :) No need to follow either Protestantism or Eastern Orthodox (false dichotomy to pit one against the other)...just follow Jesus.

The bible says to lean not to our own understanding...we need to look to the Lord and His Spirit for understanding. Yes, sometimes we'll get some things wrong, mostly because of not discerning the difference between our own thinking and the Holy Spirit, but that improves with time and experience and if our hearts are right, humble and teachable, the Lord can rescue us out of mistakes...He is a good shepherd.

have you noticed how easily throughout the centuries
and specially the more in this last few decades
How men have easily decieved people into joining them
by cliaming they HAVE the real deal , THAT we can and do bring it back to the BEGINNING .
AND yet , oh yes and YET
MOST of them , like joseph smith , like the jw
and BIG TIME NOW like this huge movment that now claims ITS BRINGING christanity back to CHRISTANITY .
IS LYING TO THEM .
HOW DO I KNOW THIS . I compare what they teach and what they do
NEXT TO HOW JESUS WALKED and TAUGHT and later the apostels did . AND they FAIL THIS BIG TIME . NOT EVEN CLOSE
to the TRUE . but due to mysticisms , chants , candles , complentative prayer
AND appearance OF worship , BUT REALLY ITS not even that if you examine it .
WHEN did JESUS SAY when ye pray , be sure and center on an object , or a word or etc .
THIS IS more like witchcraft and emotionalsim with a lot of good works added into it .
BUT NOT THE GOSPEL . AND as far as warning brethren to repent
as far as beholding both the severity of GOD and the goodness , ITS TOTALLY ABSENT OF IT .

 

[amigo de christo]

This has been a huge progressive liberal movment .
IT comes in under the guise its bringing us back TO THE ORIGINAL .
But MAN it falls flat on HOW JESUS did ALL THINGS
and HOW the apostels did all things .
AND , AND rather than trying to get their people back into the bible to learn for thesmselves
ITS things like SOLA this , you worship a book , and etc .
THESE men aint fooling this sheep . we better all watch out . I am so so sad and so tired
of watching folks fall for things that just lead them into error and more error . WHEN are , OH WHEN IS
the peoples gonna make a stand again FOR CHRIST
for holiness , FOR correction of all sins and errors , FOR the dire reminder to preach JESUS again with the reminder
of how dangerous and deadly it is to deny HIM . WE have to get up and make our stand now .

 

[Lizbeth]

It is the opposite, and walking into any Protestant or Catholic Church today will do this. They are the ones teaching the wisdom of man, and it is the Orthodox Church that still holds the teaching of the doctrine of holiness, which has been called theosis since the beginning, and entire sanctification in the western watered down form, that man is not saved unless he is saved from sin and sins no more, when he has been baptised (by the Spirit).

They are not perfect in their practise, nor are they teaching the fullness of this teaching today, but it is there, to be seen in the liturgy, in the writings of the ECF's and it is the most important thing over everything - how to be saved.

We who believe by faith, WERE saved by faith not by works....scripture is clear about that.....while we were yet sinners. At the same time we are BEING SAVED, and also we WILL BE saved in the end. Salvation is an ongoing work that had a beginning and has an end, and will be completed if we follow Christ and remain on the narrow path until the end. Jesus IS both the beginning and end of our faith....and we are not to despise the day of small beginnings...to do so would despise and underrate HIM and the magnificent thing He accomplished in our lives to begin with.

EO church believes one is born again through the sacrament of baptism. Wait a minute, I thought we were born again not by the will of man but by the will of God? And what good does baptism do if one is not first born again? They also believe receiving the Holy Spirit is another sacrament called Chrismation or Confirmation, just like the RCC. These are forms of Godliness that deny the power...from such we are to turn away. Even if they talk about holiness, that sounds nice in theory, but how does one become holy/spiritual without first being born of the spirit in fact, not just in theory by a ritual?

Jesus said to call no man on earth your Father or Rabbi (teacher).....we have only one Father and Teacher in heaven. There He was nailing both old covenant Judaism as well as that form of Christianity that clings to old covenant ways of the flesh (form of Godliness that denies the power) and elements of this world. Why do the EO and RCC cling to old covenant things.....priests, robes, incense, liturgy, rituals, tabernacle, titles, etc. The answer is because they are in the flesh, not in the spirit. It is because they have not the Spirit. I don't know what else to call all that but fallen from grace as per Galatians...apostasy.

 

[amigo de christo]

We who believe by faith, WERE saved by faith not by works....scripture is clear about that.....while we were yet sinners. At the same time we are BEING SAVED, and also we WILL BE saved in the end. Salvation is an ongoing work that had a beginning and has an end, and will be completed if we follow Christ and remain on the narrow path until the end. Jesus IS both the beginning and end of our faith....and we are not to despise the day of small beginnings...to do so would despise and underrate HIM and the magnificent thing He accomplished in our lives to begin with.

EO church believes one is born again through the sacrament of baptism. Wait a minute, I thought we were born again not by the will of man but by the will of God? And what good does baptism do if one is not first born again? They also believe receiving the Holy Spirit is another sacrament called Chrismation or Confirmation, just like the RCC. These are forms of Godliness that deny the power...from such we are to turn away. Even if they talk about holiness, that sounds nice in theory, but how does one become holy/spiritual without first being born of the spirit in fact, not just in theory by a ritual?

Jesus said to call no man on earth your Father or Rabbi (teacher).....we have only one Father and Teacher in heaven. There He was nailing both old covenant Judaism as well as that form of Christianity that clings to old covenant ways of the flesh (form of Godliness that denies the power) and elements of this world. Why do the EO and RCC cling to old covenant things.....priests, robes, incense, liturgy, rituals, tabernacle, titles, etc. The answer is because they are in the flesh, not in the spirit. It is because they have not the Spirit. I don't know what else to call all that but fallen from grace as per Galatians...apostasy.

Correct my dear sister .
Look here is water said the eunach what does hinder me to be baptized .
many today would answer and say HEY LETS GET YOU INTO the water SO as you can be baptized .
But that aint what phillip said .
HE said IF YE BELIEVE with all your heart , you may be .
Too many look to the rituals , even to good things like its those things that DID save or etc .
NOPE . ITS JESUS that saves , water baptism simply follows as an act of obediance .
Too many beleive even in the holding of prayer beads , for they believe it will help with the prayer .
AS IF GOD needs an object of any sort in ones hand to appreciate or even hear their prayers .
Many worship GOD through mens devices . BUT GOD who gave breath to all
NEEDS not such things to be worshipped . People can actually make idols out of good things .
First real big example of that was
LOOK at what they did to THE ROD of MOSES with the golden serpent .
THEY MADE AN IDOL OUT OF IT , probably blew incense to it etc
AND THEN a king had to DESTROY IT . People follow many things
that make them feel spiritual and that they beleive can draw them closer to GOD
All one needs to do is just draw nigh to GOD and HE will draw nigh to you .
And we dont need all them objects to draw nigh to him . as if he needs stones and wood to hear us better .
In fact JESUS warned against such . In fact JESUS even warned
against such men who do go about in long robes and made broad their cloathing
and love to hear flattering titles .
Think about that sister . Because if we really think on this
WHY IS IT ANYONE really does like to be called such titles
THEY LOVE THE PRAISE and RECOGNITION from men . THAT IS WHY .
YE are all brethren . call no man FATHER , YOUR FATHER IS IN HEAVEN .
but men sure do love to have the pre eminece , WHEN TO GOD ALONE , CHRIST ALONE should that have BEEN GIVEN .
SELF loveth SELF sister and many cannot discern .

 

[amigo de christo]

We who believe by faith, WERE saved by faith not by works....scripture is clear about that.....while we were yet sinners. At the same time we are BEING SAVED, and also we WILL BE saved in the end. Salvation is an ongoing work that had a beginning and has an end, and will be completed if we follow Christ and remain on the narrow path until the end. Jesus IS both the beginning and end of our faith....and we are not to despise the day of small beginnings...to do so would despise and underrate HIM and the magnificent thing He accomplished in our lives to begin with.

EO church believes one is born again through the sacrament of baptism. Wait a minute, I thought we were born again not by the will of man but by the will of God? And what good does baptism do if one is not first born again? They also believe receiving the Holy Spirit is another sacrament called Chrismation or Confirmation, just like the RCC. These are forms of Godliness that deny the power...from such we are to turn away. Even if they talk about holiness, that sounds nice in theory, but how does one become holy/spiritual without first being born of the spirit in fact, not just in theory by a ritual?

Jesus said to call no man on earth your Father or Rabbi (teacher).....we have only one Father and Teacher in heaven. There He was nailing both old covenant Judaism as well as that form of Christianity that clings to old covenant ways of the flesh (form of Godliness that denies the power) and elements of this world. Why do the EO and RCC cling to old covenant things.....priests, robes, incense, liturgy, rituals, tabernacle, titles, etc. The answer is because they are in the flesh, not in the spirit. It is because they have not the Spirit. I don't know what else to call all that but fallen from grace as per Galatians...apostasy.

Think about how Icky and wicked it would feel to you
if one called you MOST HOLY or most REVERAND anything .
TO me if one did that i would be in fear for them
and quickly tell them, YOU CALL ME NO SUCH THING
i am but a sinner saved and changed BY THE ONLY ONE who OUGHT to be called such .
YET many sure do love them titles and more so many people seem to have NO problem
calling these leaders such things .
I CALL GOD MOST HOLY , not man . We are simply made partakers OF HIS HOLINESS
ITS about high time people started HONORING HE WHO SAVED US above ALL .
TO he we owe ALL . but it seems many sure seem to give that which belongs TO GOD alone
unto man . NOT this sheep .

 

[Hepzibah]

We who believe by faith, WERE saved by faith not by works....scripture is clear about that.....while we were yet sinners.

Correct. It is all by faith and while we are yet sinners or in the initial stage of the process of sanctification which is to become complete in this life.

At the same time we are BEING SAVED, and also we WILL BE saved in the end. Salvation is an ongoing work that had a beginning and has an end, and will be completed if we follow Christ and remain on the narrow path until the end. Jesus IS both the beginning and end of our faith....and we are not to despise the day of small beginnings...to do so would despise and underrate HIM and the magnificent thing He accomplished in our lives to begin with.

Indeed it has a beginning and an end in this life which in the rebellion church denies. But you have contradicted yourself by saying IF we remain on the narrow path, or works thereof, when the fully sanctified have the testimony that they had a magnificent fall prior to the full work.

i
EO church believes one is born again through the sacrament of baptism. Wait a minute, I thought we were born again not by the will of man but by the will of God? And what good does baptism do if one is not first born again?

Sister you are arguing a subject that you have not studied. They believe in water baptism saving because in the early years, which they have stumbled on, a water baptised person would have hands lain on him and the Holy Spirit would fall on them (not infants as today).

It is Jesus who sends the Holy Spirit to baptise, not the will of man. This is the point of being born again and previous to this, one still sinned. A new creature is one so unlike the old that it is significant, not because of what they believe but how they are - holy as He is holy, and I have gone to great lengths to deny that I am undermining the start of the process.

They also believe receiving the Holy Spirit is another sacrament called Chrismation or Confirmation, just like the RCC. These are forms of Godliness that deny the power...from such we are to turn away. Even if they talk about holiness, that sounds nice in theory, but how does one become holy/spiritual without first being born of the spirit in fact, not just in theory by a ritual?

They have gone astray I do not deny, oh and chrismation is straight after baptism in the OC not like Rome.

Jesus said to call no man on earth your Father or Rabbi (teacher).....we have only one Father and Teacher in heaven. There He was nailing both old covenant Judaism as well as that form of Christianity that clings to old covenant ways of the flesh (form of Godliness that denies the power) and elements of this world.

Jesus was often critical of the underlying effect and motivation of an act rather than the act itself. He is warning people against inaccurately attributing fatherhood of a particular kind or degree of fatherhood to those who do not have it, and not to the literal meaning otherwise we could not call our earthly seed donators, fathers.

He is said not to call any man teacher.

In acts 7:2 Stephen refers to our father Abraham.
In Romans 9:10 Paul speaks of our father Isaac.

Paul regularly referred to Timothy as His child 1 Cor 4:17, 1Tim 1:2, 2Tim 1:2. And he often referred to himself as a father.

Why do the EO and RCC cling to old covenant things.....priests, robes, incense, liturgy, rituals, tabernacle, titles, etc. The answer is because they are in the flesh, not in the spirit. It is because they have not the Spirit. I don't know what else to call all that but fallen from grace as per Galatians...apostasy.

They were so fallen, the EO that is, that they preached the necessity of full surrender to Christ to be baptised and become holy (?) whereas the rest of Christendom only did it now and again. The early writings were rich in it.

The EO church produced a place of beauty, once they could have buildings so that the presence of God could be experienced which would bring man to repentance. Maybe they overdid it once that apostacy came in I don't know, but there were plenty of holy men about known as saints. They did not all fall into flesh.

Really sis you are giving your opinions which are not factual history.