MY GOSPEL

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Doug

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This is the most detailed prophecy yet. Jesus plainly names the people involved, the actions taken, the method of death—crucifixion—and the timing of the resurrection.

HOW CAN YOU SAY THEY DID NOT KNOW?
The Bible doesnt say they werent told, nor does it say they didnt know; it says they didnt understand it

[Mar 9:31-32 KJV] 31 For he taught his disciples, and said unto them, The Son of man is delivered into the hands of men, and they shall kill him; and after that he is killed, he shall rise the third day. 32 But they understood not that saying, and were afraid to ask him.

[Luk 18:33-34 KJV] 33 And they shall scourge [him], and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again. 34 And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.

You cant say they had some understanding especially when it was hid to them. You cant say their understanding was made complete when Christ opened the scriptures to them.....scripture doesnt say it
 
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BeforeThereWas

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Romans 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

Paul said the gospel he preached was "my gospel".

The gospel Paul preached was revealed to him by Christ. Galatians 1:12

Christ will stablish, or strengthen, the church according to Paul's gospel. Romans 16:25

Paul's gospel revealed that salvation was to all who believed, apart from Israel and the covenants. Romans 3:22 Romans 3:24 Romans 3:30

Paul's gospel taught that through the cross Christ provided a complete salvation for us. 1 Corinthians 1:18

Paul's gospel taught that Christ died for our sins, as our substitute, for the payment of our debt and penalty for sin. 1 Corinthians 15:3

Paul's gospel revealed that the resurrection of Christ accomplished our justification unto eternal life. Romans 4:25

Paul's gospel and the revelation of the mystery was not found in the scriptures. Romans 16:25

Paul's gospel revealed the mystery of salvation; how God could save sinners. Romans 3:25 Romans 3:26

Paul's gospel revealed a new creature, in which there is neither Jew or Gentile. Galatians 3:28 Galatians 6:15

Paul's gospel revealed the body of Christ. Ephesians 2:16 1 Corinthians 12:27

Paul's gospel revealed our position in the heavenly places. Ephesians 2:6 2 Timothy 4:18

Paul's gospel also preached Christ from the scriptures of the law and prophets. Romans 16:26

Paul was given the dispensation of Grace. Ephesians 3:2

Paul's was given a dispensation of the gospel. 1 Corinthians 9:17

Conventional thinking in Christianity is that the Twelve taught the exact same thing as Paul. People generally believe Paul comes along later because he's rebellious—he’s persecuting the church in early Acts—but then the Lord appears to him, Paul gets saved, and he just becomes another member of the Twelve. According to this view, he goes to the same people with the same message, and his ministry is not different from theirs.

That is the widespread thinking throughout Christianity. It's almost universally believed: Paul came later, but he did the exact same thing.

Let's look at Ephesians 3:1–3:

“For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles—”

Not to Jews only but to Gentiles. That’s exactly what he says. You should also keep in mind that, during the Lord’s earthly ministry, He sent out the Twelve specifically commanding them in Matthew 10, “Go not into the way of the Gentiles.” Now that’s important.

People want to say that Peter and Paul had the same ministry, but if words mean things—which they do—then his ministry is different. At minimum, it involved a different audience.

Verse 2: “If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward—”

Isn’t the natural sense of that verse that the dispensation of the grace of God was given to Paul? Isn’t that exactly what it says? Would that verse make sense if the dispensation of grace had already been given to someone else? That would be an odd thing to say. The whole thrust of the verse is that a specific dispensation—a body of information—was given to Paul, for you-ward, meaning to pass along to others. Paul was very much like Moses. What did God do with Moses? God gave information to him—not to put in a safe deposit box—but to distribute to Israel. Moses was a prophet who received revelation from God, which he then communicated.

The same or similar thing is true of Paul. The dispensation of the grace of God was given to him, for us. He was to share it with humanity.

Verse 3: “How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery—”

Now, from 1 Corinthians 2:7–8, we know that the word “mystery” means hidden wisdom. A mystery is wisdom, but what kind of wisdom? Hidden, concealed wisdom. So when verse 3 says, “How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery,” people often assume Paul simply preached what Peter was preaching—he just started later. That is utterly false in relation to what's actually written in our Bibles.

But verse 3 disproves the idea that Paul's revelation was the same as that of the twelve.

What was Paul doing in Acts 7 and 8? He was persecuting the church. And he was doing so because of their doctrine—not because he hated Jewish people (Paul himself was Jewish, of the tribe of Benjamin). He viewed the church as heretical—because of what they taught. So, did Paul need a special revelation from God the Father to understand what Peter and the Twelve were preaching? No, he already knew what they taught. That’s precisely why he persecuted them.

So then what does verse 3 tell you?

“By revelation he made known unto me the mystery.”

The mystery can’t possibly be what Peter and the Twelve were teaching—Paul already knew that doctrine. He knew it, and that’s why he was persecuting them! And here’s the point: we’re only three verses into Ephesians 3, and when people say “Paul was doing the exact same thing as Peter”—have they read any of the verses? Or do they just believe things that sound spiritual?

So, there is much to be gleaned from these facts that lead to even deeper implications for rightly dividing the word of truth.

BTW
 
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Doug

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Although the disciples struggled at times to accept what Jesus was saying, there is a clear moment when they finally understood.
At the Last Supper, Jesus again spoke of His death:
If they understood at the last supper why did Christ have to open their understanding after his resurrection in Luke 24:27 44-45 (I posted these verses in full before)
 

LoveYeshua

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Jesus didnt speak of his death throughout his whole ministry,,,,,,,,Matthew 16 says maybe halfway thru Matthew he begins........[Mat 16:21 KJV] 21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.

He did tell them he would die and rise again but where does he tell them why before the passover

[Mat 26:28 KJV] 28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

He told them why at the passover

[Luk 24:46-47 KJV] 46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: 47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

He told them why after his resurrection...........you would have to show scripture where he told them why before this
you are trying to find excuses, they do not hold, I just wanted to tell you they knew and proved it using scripture only. what does it matter before of after, they still know before Paul, they preached the cross before Paul.
 

LoveYeshua

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The Bible doesnt say they werent told, nor does it say they didnt know; it says they didnt understand it

[Mar 9:31-32 KJV] 31 For he taught his disciples, and said unto them, The Son of man is delivered into the hands of men, and they shall kill him; and after that he is killed, he shall rise the third day. 32 But they understood not that saying, and were afraid to ask him.

[Luk 18:33-34 KJV] 33 And they shall scourge [him], and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again. 34 And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.
yes it did, the great comission was given to the remaining 11, I even quoted from it to you before, did you read what I posted? read it again you missed this part.

The Scriptures Opened​

44 Then He said to them, “These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me.” 45 And He opened their understanding, that they might comprehend the Scriptures.


46 Then He said to them, “Thus it is written, [a]and thus it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the third day, 47 and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48 And you are witnesses of these things. 49 Behold, I send the Promise of My Father upon you; but tarry in the city [b]of Jerusalem until you are endued with power from on high.”
 

LoveYeshua

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If they understood at the last supper why did Christ have to open their understanding after his resurrection in Luke 24:27 44-45 (I posted these verses in full before)
they did not understand fully at the last super but they knew he would be put to death and resurrect. please read what i wrote to you all is explained there in proper sequence. you have to remember the men Jesus chose were common men for the most paer and did not knwe scrioture well, they could not make easily the links between prophecy and jesus doings.

remember what jesus told them in John 14;

16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter ( HOLY SPIRIT), that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

when will you start to believe what Jesus said?
 

Doug

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Before Paul ever met Jesus, the disciples were already teaching that Jesus died and rose again. On the day of Pentecost, Peter preached to the crowd:
Here is what Peter preached
[Act 2:38 KJV] 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
He didnt say Jesus died for our sins
He said to be baptized in his name for the remission of sins
 

Doug

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they did not understand fully at the last super but they knew he would be put to death and resurrect. please read what i wrote to you all is explained there in proper sequence.
I answerd more you arent seeing them
 

LoveYeshua

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Here is what Peter preached
[Act 2:38 KJV] 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
He didnt say Jesus died for our sins
He said to be baptized in his name for the remission of sins
these verses are not a complete rendition of all that peter and the 11 were teaching, but Christ did tell them to preach all, and they assuredly did. why do you think we have this written account of jesus on the cross in matt, john, luke and mark? without these what would you know about Jesus our Lord? Not much im affraid.
 

Doug

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1. Jesus Revealed the Unity of Believers – Jew and Gentile Together​

Jesus openly taught that He came not only for Israel, but also to bring others—those not of the Jewish nation—into one flock:


Here Jesus clearly refers to Gentiles as “other sheep.” His goal is one flock, not two. This is the same idea that Paul later called “one body.” But it was Jesus who said it first.
That is not the same as forming a new creature where there is neither Jew or Greek

The other sheep are the Jews scattered in other nations
 

Doug

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This shows that the new family of God is based on obedience to God, not physical descent. In this family, there is no Jew or Gentile—only those who do God’s will. This is the beginning of the new creation and the body of Christ, defined by faith and obedience.
This is not supported.....where does this say anything about forming one new man
 

LoveYeshua

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That is not the same as forming a new creature where there is neither Jew or Greek

The other sheep are the Jews scattered in other nations
before I go any further, do you believe all that what Christ said? I need to know.
 

Doug

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This is the moment when the Jewish believers recognized that there was no longer separation between Jew and Gentile in Christ. This happened before Paul’s letters and by the hand of Peter, not Paul.
These Gentiles in Acts 10 were made members of the believing remnant of Israel and remained Gentiles as seen in Acts 15 where they decided not to put them under the law
 

LoveYeshua

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this time i want you to read it in full;

Jesus did not keep His death a secret from His disciples. Throughout His ministry, He plainly told them what would happen, when it would happen, and why. Although at first they struggled to understand, there came a moment when they finally grasped the truth. This truth was revealed by Jesus Himself, before any outsider—including Paul—could have known. Scripture clearly shows that the original disciples, chosen and taught by Jesus, understood His coming death and resurrection well before Paul ever became a follower.

Jesus Openly Foretells His Death​

Jesus spoke of His death on multiple occasions. The first clear prophecy is recorded after Peter confessed that Jesus is "the Christ, the Son of the living God."

“From that time Jesus began to show to His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem, and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised the third day.” (Matthew 16:21)
This marks the first time Jesus began to explain clearly to His disciples that He would be killed and raised on the third day. It’s important that Matthew writes “from that time”—showing this was a turning point. Jesus no longer spoke in parables but openly revealed the suffering ahead.

Peter, still not fully understanding, reacted strongly:

“Far be it from You, Lord; this shall not happen to You!” (Matthew 16:22)
But Jesus corrected Peter:

“Get behind Me, Satan! You are an offense to Me, for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men.” (Matthew 16:23)
This rebuke shows that Peter's thinking was still earthly, but the teaching had begun. Jesus was preparing them to accept the hard truth.

Repeated Warnings and Growing Clarity​

Jesus did not mention His death just once. He reminded them again:

“Now while they were staying in Galilee, Jesus said to them, ‘The Son of Man is about to be betrayed into the hands of men, and they will kill Him, and the third day He will be raised up.’ And they were exceedingly sorrowful.” (Matthew 17:22–23)
This time the disciples are “exceedingly sorrowful”—showing they understood enough to be deeply troubled.
Again, shortly before arriving in Jerusalem:

“Behold, we are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be betrayed to the chief priests and to the scribes; and they will condemn Him to death, and deliver Him to the Gentiles to mock and to scourge and to crucify. And the third day He will rise again.” (Matthew 20:18–19)
This is the most detailed prophecy yet. Jesus plainly names the people involved, the actions taken, the method of death—crucifixion—and the timing of the resurrection.

HOW CAN YOU SAY THEY DID NOT KNOW?

The Moment of Understanding​

Although the disciples struggled at times to accept what Jesus was saying, there is a clear moment when they finally understood.
At the Last Supper, Jesus again spoke of His death:

“For the Son of Man indeed goes just as it is written of Him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed!” (Mark 14:21)
After He gave them bread and wine as symbols of His body and blood, Jesus said:
“This is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many.” (Mark 14:24)
At this point, the disciples no longer questioned that Jesus was going to die. Their silence at the table, their sorrow in Gethsemane, and their reaction to His arrest all show that they finally knew what was coming.

Jesus had told them many times. But after the Last Supper, they stopped asking questions. Their sorrow became real, not just confusion.

After the Resurrection: Full Clarity and Witness​

When Jesus rose from the dead, He appeared first to His disciples—not Paul. He reminded them that everything had happened exactly as He had foretold.

“Then He said to them, ‘These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me.’ And He opened their understanding, that they might comprehend the Scriptures.” (Luke 24:44–45)
From this moment, their understanding was complete. They understood both His death and His purpose. Jesus had taught them personally, opened their eyes to the Scriptures, and called them to be witnesses.

“You are witnesses of these things.” (Luke 24:48)

The Disciples Testify Before Paul’s Conversion​

Before Paul ever met Jesus, the disciples were already teaching that Jesus died and rose again. On the day of Pentecost, Peter preached to the crowd:

“Him, being delivered by the determined purpose and foreknowledge of God, you have taken by lawless hands, have crucified, and put to death; whom God raised up, having loosed the pains of death.” (Acts 2:23–24)
Peter speaks boldly, proving that he now understands everything Jesus had told them. The disciples were the first witnesses, the first preachers of the gospel of Jesus' death and resurrection.

Paul, however, did not meet Jesus until later—after these events. His first encounter with Jesus came on the road to Damascus (Acts 9:3–6), when Jesus revealed Himself directly to Paul. But by then, the disciples had already seen, heard, believed, and were spreading the message.

The Disciples Knew First!!!​

Scripture clearly shows that:

  • Jesus foretold His death multiple times to His disciples.
  • They began to understand after His third clear prophecy.
  • At the Last Supper, they finally accepted the truth.
  • After the resurrection, Jesus opened their minds fully.
  • The disciples were preaching the gospel before Paul ever believed.
Therefore, the original disciples knew of Jesus’ death and resurrection both in prophecy and in experience before Paul ever encountered Jesus. Their understanding came directly from the mouth of the Lord Himself.


Let this stand as a testimony to their faith and witness:

We are witnesses of all things which He did… whom they killed by hanging on a tree. Him God raised up on the third day, and showed Him openly… And He commanded us to preach to the people. (Acts 10:39–42)
Their testimony they witnessed all this first hand!! they Knew first before anyone else. Their understanding came first. And it was they who were chosen to pass it on to the world just as Jesus asked them to do.
 

Doug

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Conventional thinking in Christianity is that the Twelve taught the exact same thing as Paul. People generally believe Paul comes along later because he's rebellious—he’s persecuting the church in early Acts—but then the Lord appears to him, Paul gets saved, and he just becomes another member of the Twelve. According to this view, he goes to the same people with the same message, and his ministry is not different from theirs.

That is the widespread thinking throughout Christianity. It's almost universally believed: Paul came later, but he did the exact same thing.
Yes glad to see this
 
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Doug

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Isn’t the natural sense of that verse that the dispensation of the grace of God was given to Paul? Isn’t that exactly what it says? Would that verse make sense if the dispensation of grace had already been given to someone else?
Yes good point
Most wont admit there are different dispensations and wont acknowledge that God deals differently with mankind at different times
They wont acknowledge there are different gospels either
 
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Doug

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The mystery can’t possibly be what Peter and the Twelve were teaching—Paul already knew that doctrine. He knew it, and that’s why he was persecuting them! And here’s the point: we’re only three verses into Ephesians 3, and when people say “Paul was doing the exact same thing as Peter”—have they read any of the verses? Or do they just believe things that sound spiritual?
Right
Why would Paul have to communicate the gospel to them in Galatians 2 if they were all preaching the same gospel
 
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