Only the Apostles were Predestined

[Ritajanice]

What I said in the OP is how John uses "key words." In his gospel he signifies that the "Father gave" him his apostles. In his epistle he uses the word "say" to show fake Christians. They say, but do not walk.

Of course in Ephesians 1 he is writing to the Ephesians, but then he introduces himself as one of the apostles who were predestinated.

Learn from this or not.

According to you @1stCenturyLady .....that is your belief.

My belief is different, when my spirit became Born Again, I became a saint in the eyes of God, from the moment the Spirit gave birth to my spirit...I belong to Jesus and am being made into His image....his Spirit indwells my spirit “ permanently “ it is not I who lives, but it is Jesus who lives in me...Praise God for his Son and Praise God for the Living testimony, who is Gods witness, to all that I say..he is The Living Holy Spirit....who has taken up permanent residence in my spirit....which I love to “ emphasise “.

Romans 8​

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King James Version​

​

​

8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Then in John 17 we see that in Jesus' prayer for the Apostles, those the Father gives to the Son were the apostles.

Those who the Father gives to the Son on the earth today, are the Born Again/ Saints....they have been Born Of The Spirit, never ever can their spirit be un - birthed from the Spirit of God, just as flesh gives birth to flesh, it can’t go back into the womb once they have been birthed......my spirit belongs to God, The moment my spirit was birthed....it’s not my own to do as I once did when I was in the world.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

What do you do with Romans 5?

Specifically?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

^This^ is how I understood you, those given Jesus Christ, "Behold I (Jesus) and the children (those the Father had given him in that context) seeing that the same were specifically for "signs and for wonders" in Israel (to whom Jesus was first sent) and Jesus prayed for these (and not for the world) but includes praying also for them who would believe on Jesus through their word.

John 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

And for this cause they gave thanks here also

1 Thes 2:16 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

Next verse

1 Thes 2:17 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

And similarly, Paul said,

2Cr 12:2 Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds.

Which had Christ in them, and the same said,

Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you

I don't believe it excludes anyone who believes on their word, because the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of adoption which was for them (who believed in Christ through their word) as it was for their children and also those who were afar off (the Gentiles).

But these were specific to Israel being for signs and for wonders in Israel

Isaiah 8:18 (( Behold I )) and the children whom the LORD (( hath given me))
are for signs and for wonders in Israel from the LORD of hosts,
which dwelleth in mount Zion.

Not sure I know if there was a question here.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

According to you @1stCenturyLady .....that is your belief.

My belief is different, when my spirit became Born Again, I became a saint in the eyes of God, from the moment the Spirit gave birth to my spirit...I belong to Jesus and am being made into His image....his Spirit indwells my spirit “ permanently “ it is not I who lives, but it is Jesus who lives in me...Praise God for his Son and Praise God for the Living testimony, who is Gods witness, to all that I say..he is The Living Holy Spirit....who has taken up permanent residence in my spirit....which I love to “ emphasise “.

Romans 8​

​

King James Version​

​

​

8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Then in John 17 we see that in Jesus' prayer for the Apostles, those the Father gives to the Son were the apostles.

Those who the Father gives to the Son on the earth today, are the Born Again/ Saints....they have been Born Of The Spirit, never ever can their spirit be un - birthed from the Spirit of God, just as flesh gives birth to flesh, it can’t go back into the womb once they have been birthed......my spirit belongs to God, The moment my spirit was birthed....it’s not my own to do as I once did when I was in the world.

Hi RJ, I'm talking of the specific words that have to do with the Father giving/gives/gave to the Son/Jesus. They are key words that pertain only to the Apostles. As far as we who believe in Jesus we are predestined to be conformed to the image of his son. I like Romans 8 for that too. But the predestination here in 29 is what, not who.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

This is the thinking of men who have no understanding of what the world is and how it works.

The history of the world is not unfolding--it is only the revelation of it that is unfolding.

Thus, predestination does not mean that the fate of people yet born was first determined and then lived out without freewill. Nor does that mean freewill does not exist. Contrary to any such thinking or ideas, just as it is proper and correct for us to say we "were" crucified with Christ, it is also proper and correct to say we preexisted with Christ, at which point (before time) we had freewill--and yet it is just now being revealed--just as Christ also came and was revealed in His own time of revealing.

The world therefore, is a page-by-page revelation like the reading of a book that was written then read after the fact. Understand, that it is only by worldly blindness--blindness by sin and separation from God, that all that is true (even of our own lives) is just now being revealed to us. This is an act of God, that we have freewill, and it is revealed in personal testimony before the Judgement. Which one should not think of as if we can not change--but rather that surely we would turn from our sins and change, and now is our chance to walk it out--to prove it. This is what is meant by Paul's instructions to "workout your own salvation."

Let the reader understand.

This I'm pointing out is something the Apostle uses in his writings. He was Hebrew/Semitic and thus uses Semitic writing styles. You can take it or leave it without being nasty about it. We need to love one another if you call Jesus the Christ.

 

[Scott Downey]

Hi RJ, I'm talking of the specific words that have to do with the Father giving/gives/gave to the Son/Jesus. They are key words that pertain only to the Apostles. As far as we who believe in Jesus we are predestined to be conformed to the image of his son. I like Romans 8 for that too. But the predestination here in 29 is what, not who.

28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

You have changed scripture from whom to what, as in this

For what He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Having changed the words, no one should listen to 1st century lady.
Watch her either not respond or she will openly challenge the wording to me that I pointed out, that it really is 'what', but she will not repent is what I expect. Few do repent of the evil.
You all who read this can make up your own mind, she certainly has.

 

[Scott Downey]

Why do they do this? Because they want scripture to say what they want it to say, not what it says.
What it says offends their sensibilities about their religion.
That happens all the time with people, the Word offends them, Christ offends them, so they make up a false Christ that makes them happy and comfortable, and they refuse repentance.

 

[Scott Downey]

Matthew 24

Then Jesus went out and departed from the temple, and His disciples came up to show Him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down.”

The Signs of the Times and the End of the Age​

3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”

4 And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. 6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for [a]all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, [b]pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 24 - New King James Version

Jesus Predicts the Destruction of the Temple - Then Jesus went out and departed from the temple, and His disciples came up to show Him the buildings of the temple. And Jesus said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another...

www.biblegateway.com

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
2 Timothy 3

10 But you have carefully followed my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, love, perseverance, 11 persecutions, afflictions, which happened to me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra—what persecutions I endured. And out of them all the Lord delivered me. 12 Yes, and all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution.

13 But evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived. 14 But you must continue in the things which you have learned and been assured of, knowing from whom you have learned them, 15 and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for [c]instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

Bible Gateway passage: 2 Timothy 3 - New King James Version

Perilous Times and Perilous Men - But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal...

www.biblegateway.com

 

[1stCenturyLady]

For what He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Immediately, I saw you change a word from God's word. Why? It is WHOM not WHAT.

29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.

From the beginning of time God knows who becomes conformed to the image of His Son and He saves them. As for the OP it is a lesson in Semitic writing styles that can help a westerner discern what the eastern Apostles meant in their writings. Take it or leave it. It is only for true seekers of truth such as myself and the few who find it out of study.

 

[ScottA]

This I'm pointing out is something the Apostle uses in his writings. He was Hebrew/Semitic and thus uses Semitic writing styles. You can take it or leave it without being nasty about it. We need to love one another if you call Jesus the Christ.

Shall I not confront you when you error then?

But.., We ought to obey God rather than men. ​

Because to say that "only the apostles were predestined" is not only not true, it shows a complete lack of understanding of the overall circumstances: That the passages and use of the term "predestination" are given as strictly from the perspective of this world--to those in the world, that they may [begin] to understand. And yet, all such language is the reason Paul clarified the need for "rightly dividing the word of truth."

What you have presented is a misrepresentation of that greater truth that is to be "rightly divided."

 

[Truly]

Not sure I know if there was a question here.

There was no question mark there, so no. I often post to the topics and avoid the persons as best I can.

 

[Scott Downey]

Immediately, I saw you change a word from God's word. Why? It is WHOM not WHAT.

29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.

From the beginning of time God knows who becomes conformed to the image of His Son and He saves them. As for the OP it is a lesson in Semitic writing styles that can help a westerner discern what the eastern Apostles meant in their writings. Take it or leave it. It is only for true seekers of truth such as myself and the few who find it out of study.

1stCenturyLady said:
Hi RJ, I'm talking of the specific words that have to do with the Father giving/gives/gave to the Son/Jesus. They are key words that pertain only to the Apostles. As far as we who believe in Jesus we are predestined to be conformed to the image of his son. I like Romans 8 for that too. But the predestination here in 29 is what, not who.

You are the one who said 'what' not 'whom'

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Shall I not confront you when you error then?

But.., We ought to obey God rather than men. ​

Because to say that "only the apostles were predestined" is not only not true, it shows a complete lack of understanding of the overall circumstances: That the passages and use of the term "predestination" are given as strictly from the perspective of this world--to those in the world, that they may [begin] to understand. And yet, all such language is the reason Paul clarified the need for "rightly dividing the word of truth."

What you have presented is a misrepresentation of that greater truth that is to be "rightly divided."

If you are absolutely sure I error, I would appreciate it. But I'm not in error. Just because we believe in Jesus doesn't mean I could never apostate. The Father hand picked the Apostles out of the nation of Israel.

Scott, I'm not saying that you can never be sure of your salvation. I, myself, know I am saved and have been for the last, at least, 25 years of the 48 years I've been baptized with the Holy Spirit. And I can say that because of 1 John 3:21-22 and 1 John 5:18. 100 % of my prayers have been answered and I've received what God told me to pray.

Back in the year 2000 I was alone and driving through the Arizona desert and God spoke to me. He speaks to be often and I know His voice. He said, "I am giving you the office of Teacher." Since then I asked Him to wipe my mind of all doctrines of man and demons and to start over and teach me His gospel and His meaning of all the New Covenant verses and He has. What He's taught me since then is what was taught in the 1st Century and He has also taught me what the doctrines of men and demons are in the Church today. I see them repeated time and time again on Christian forums.

I do not teach anything that God hasn't taught me, Himself.

 

[Scott Downey]

If you are absolutely sure I error, I would appreciate it. But I'm not in error. Just because we believe in Jesus doesn't mean I could never apostate. The Father hand picked the Apostles out of the nation of Israel.

No one is disagreeing with that, but God also predestined as in chose who He would as in all believers, which you have denied.
And to support that, you switched Romans 8:29 from 'Whom' to 'what'
As in you related that to what they did as works in order to believe, they believed on their own without God priorly choosing them for salvation.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

No one is disagreeing with that, but God also predestined as in chose who He would as in all believers, which you have denied.
And to support that, you switched Romans 8:29 from 'Whom' to 'what'
As in you related that to what they did as works in order to believe, they believed on their own without God priorly choosing them for salvation.

Scott there is no Scripture that says all believers are predestinated. Only the Apostles. Ephesians 1 is to the Ephesians in his greeting, but his apology of his authority is because He was chosen to be an Apostle by Jesus, Himself, and was predestinated along with the other Apostles who were the first to believe. Then in Romans 8:29 that is not who (people) are predestinated, but what! They would be conformed to the image of Christ. For instance, there are no habitual sinners of the flesh that will be in heaven. They are not conformed to the image of our sinless Jesus. It was Jesus that took sin out of our nature. We are a new creation that no longer has a sin nature. You won't find that teaching in any Church I've seen. We are in the time of the falling away, 2 Thess. 2

 

[Scott Downey]

Scott there is no Scripture that says all believers are predestinated. Only the Apostles. Ephesians 1 is to the Ephesians in his greeting, but his apology of his authority is because He was chosen to be an Apostle by Jesus, Himself, and was predestinated along with the other Apostles who were the first to believe. Then in Romans 8:29 that is not who (people) are predestinated, but what! They would be conformed to the image of Christ. For instance, there are no habitual sinners of the flesh that will be in heaven. They are not conformed to the image of our sinless Jesus. It was Jesus that took sin out of our nature. We are a new creation that no longer has a sin nature. You won't find that teaching in any Church I've seen. We are in the time of the falling away, 2 Thess. 2

I knew you would not change your mind, and you cannot go around changing the words, going from whom to what is a major changing of scripture.

 

[ScottA]

If you are absolutely sure I error, I would appreciate it. But I'm not in error. Just because we believe in Jesus doesn't mean I could never apostate. The Father hand picked the Apostles out of the nation of Israel.

Scott, I'm not saying that you can never be sure of your salvation. I, myself, know I am saved and have been for the last, at least, 25 years of the 48 years I've been baptized with the Holy Spirit. And I can say that because of 1 John 3:21-22 and 1 John 5:18. 100 % of my prayers have been answered and I've received what God told me to pray.

Back in the year 2000 I was alone and driving through the Arizona desert and God spoke to me. He speaks to be often and I know His voice. He said, "I am giving you the office of Teacher." Since then I asked Him to wipe my mind of all doctrines of man and demons and to start over and teach me His gospel and His meaning of all the New Covenant verses and He has. What He's taught me since then is what was taught in the 1st Century and He has also taught me what the doctrines of men and demons are in the Church today. I see them repeated time and time again on Christian forums.

I do not teach anything that God hasn't taught me, Himself.

I am not questioning your salvation or your sincerity.

However, there were to be false teachings even at work during the 1st century that would continue until God's own restraint was taken out of the way allowing for the fulfillment of Daniel and John's sealed revelations to finish the mystery of God as He declared through His servants the prophets. Unfortunately, or might I say fortunately, the timing you gave was still under restraint. Which I do not say lightly, or even critically, but say because it was given to me--the least of three, caught up to the third heaven and heard words unlawful to speak--for a time; then to bear witness to His release and revealing of things not before revealed, but sealed (as it is written). Of which I have made no secret, nor made any claim of private interpretation, but rather have only acted according to what is written. Therefore, I have stated what was in error and why, as well as what is actually true.

Unfortunately, many similar but false claims have also been made by others. I understand that. Which are to cause these times to be "as the days of Noah", times of jubilee and also terror. Even so, one--that one account written of--was also to be, and is of God.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I knew you would not change your mind, and you cannot go around changing the words, going from whom to what is a major changing of scripture.

You are the one who wrote what, but the Scripture says whom. Romans 8:29. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Scott Downey said:

For what He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.

It is silly to argue with you on this. The Bible says what it says. It was your mistake, not mine. I'm done. Next question.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I am not questioning your salvation or your sincerity.

However, there were to be false teachings even at work during the 1st century that would continue until God's own restraint was taken out of the way allowing for the fulfillment of Daniel and John's sealed revelations to finish the mystery of God as He declared through His servants the prophets. Unfortunately, or might I say fortunately, the timing you gave was still under restraint. Which I do not say lightly, or even critically, but say because it was given to me--the least of three, caught up to the third heaven and heard words unlawful to speak--for a time; then to bear witness to His release and revealing of things not before revealed, but sealed (as it is written). Of which I have made no secret, nor made any claim of private interpretation, but rather have only acted according to what is written. Therefore, I have stated what was in error and why, as well as what is actually true.

Unfortunately, many similar but false claims have also been made by others. I understand that. Which are to cause these times to be "as the days of Noah", times of jubilee and also terror. Even so, one--that one account written of--was also to be, and is of God.

I don't know what your point is.

 

[Lambano]

You are the one who wrote what, but the Scripture says whom. Romans 8:29. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Scott Downey said:

For what He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.

It is silly to argue with you on this. The Bible says what it says. It was your mistake, not mine. I'm done. Next question.

While ὅς can be either “whom” or “that”, the masculine gender plus the context of being conformed to the image of His son argues persuasively for reference to a person, so “whom” would be the preferred translation.