I have my doubts that Catholicism is Christianity

[pandaflower]

It absolutely is in reference to the Vatican as well as all false religions who she is in bed with and those outside of her who hold not to the TRUTH of HIS Word.

OK.

 

[David in NJ]

OK.

i was raised RCC, so three things:
a.) i know about the evils of the Vatican
b.) i love my fellow catholics who NEED the Way the Truth and the Life
c.) God is saving people in all denominations where the Gospel is preached = HE does the Choosing

AGREE with you = we do not judge the person = God's Business not ours'

 

[pandaflower]

i was raised RCC, so three things:
a.) i know about the evils of the Vatican
b.) i love my fellow catholics who NEED the Way the Truth and the Life
c.) God is saving people in all denominations where the Gospel is preached = HE does the Choosing

AGREE with you = we do not judge the person = God's Business not ours'

Thanks for that.

After awhile I know it does no good to try to lead human egos error into self reflection and repentance when the intention is to divide God's church.

I see that too as God's job.Not mine. Only God changes that what needs to be changed.

Thanks again.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

HE does the Choosing

That's what the calvinists keep claiming.

God decides who gets saved and God decides who gets damned.

Nothing like a little calvinist heresy on a nice Tuesday afternoon!

 

[David in NJ]

That's what the calvinists keep claiming.

God decides who gets saved and God decides who gets damned.

Nothing like a little calvinist heresy on a nice Tuesday afternoon!

i am not a clavinistical follower of Calvin

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

i am not a clavinistical follower of Calvin

But you did say God chooses who gets saved right?

Maybe you're a follower of Calvin's redneck cousin Cletus who led Cletusism south of Geneva

 

[David in NJ]

But you did say God chooses who gets saved right?

Maybe you're a follower of Calvin's redneck cousin Cletus who led Cletusism south of Geneva

JESUS said it = so better check with His words

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

JESUS said it

So you claim Jesus was a calvinist?

Got scripture that specifically says God is the One is deciding who gets saved and He's preventing everyone else from being saved?

You seemed to be backed in to a corner here having previous said you were not a calvinite

 

[David in NJ]

So you claim Jesus was a calvinist?

Got scripture that specifically says God is the One is deciding who gets saved and He's preventing everyone else from being saved?

You seemed to be backed in to a corner here having previous said you were not a calvinite

You claim JESUS can be classified as a sinner who was not yet born = great one Bob


43“Stop grumbling among yourselves,” Jesus replied. 44“No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day. 45It is written in the Prophets: ‘And they will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from Him comes to Me— 46not that anyone has seen the Father except the One who is from God; only He has seen the Father.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

You claim JESUS can be classified as a sinner who was not yet born = great one Bob

That's a lie and you know it. You must be one of satan's operatives now. You might want to repent and quick!

I never said Jesus was a sinner in any of my posts and you are deflecting the question that I asked you.

43“Stop grumbling among yourselves,” Jesus replied. 44“No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day. 45It is written in the Prophets: ‘And they will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from Him comes to Me— 46not that anyone has seen the Father except the One who is from God; only He has seen the Father.

John 12:32
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw ALL men unto me.

Acts 17:30
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth ALL men every where to repent:

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that ALL should come to repentance.

Titus 2:11,12
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to ALL men,
Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

God calls ALL to salvation but He's not the One deciding who gets saved and who does not... each person is responsible to answer the Lord's call for their lives and sadly most do not find salvation and Jesus is telling us in Matthew 7:14

People following the calvinites believe Jesus is a liar and that's very sad for them as this leads to hell.

 

[mailmandan]

i wouldn't say "countles" but i do AGREE that some Catholics will be saved

Catholics who end up saved will be saved in spite of what the Roman Catholic church teaches about the plan of salvation and not because of what it teaches.

 

[Augustin56]

This is one reason why. My goodness they are deceived and lost! There is ZERO chance that God's humble and faithful servant would EVER say such a thing. These apparitions are demonic and this is coming from a 50-year Catholic that once thought that the "Lady of Fatima" stuff was great. That was before I picked up a Bible. View attachment 62742

You picked up a Bible and did what? Self-interpreted it, which the Bible warns against? (2 Peter 1:20 "Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation") Jesus didn't write a book to spread His truths. He founded a (ONE) Church in which to do so. It was this Church that wrote the New Testament and in the late 4th century set the canon for the Bible.
The Catholic Church is the original Church founded by Christ. St. Ignatius of Antioch, the bishop of Antioch ordained by St. Peter, was captured by the Romans. While they were transporting him to be martyred for the faith, he wrote a letter to the Smyrnaeans around 107-110 A.D., referring to the "Catholic Church," not in such a manner as if he were coining the term, but in such a manner in which he fully expected the Smyrnaeans to understand what he was talking about. It says in paragraph 8, "Where the bishop is present, there let the congregation gather, just as where Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church."
See the entire letter here: https://orderofstignatius.com/files/Letters/Ignatius_to_Smyrnaeans.pdf

You self-interpreting a book given you by the Catholic Church, in a manner contradicting how the Church that wrote it interprets it, only leads to error. Ask yourself why there are over 40,000 man-made, doctrinally contradicting/disagreeing Protestant denominations today, all started since the 16th century.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Obviously that is an untrue statement as catholics never affirmed God's Word in the first place, much less reaffirmed

Sooooo, where DID we get the Canon of Scripture, Einstein?
Did God just drop it from the sky?

OR, was it revealed through His Church as HE promised (John 16:12-15)? Time for a History Lesson . . .

The Synod of Rome (382) is where the canon was first formally identified – ALL 73 (not 66) Books.
- 11 years after that, it was confirmed at the Synod of Hippo (393).
- 4 years later, at the Council (or Synod) of Carthage (397), it was yet again confirmed. The bishops wrote at the end of their document, "But let Church beyond sea (Rome) be consulted about confirming this canon". There were 44 bishops, including St. Augustine who signed the document.
- 7 years later, in 405, in a letter from Pope Innocent I to Exsuperius, Bishop of Toulouse, he reiterated the canon.
- 14 years after that, at the 2nd Council (Synod) of Carthage (419) the canon was again formally confirmed.

The Canon of Scripture was officially closed at the Council of Trent in the 16th century because of the perversions happening within Protestantism and the random editing and deleting of books from the Canon.

Them’s the FACTS, son . . .

If they did they would actually follow God's Word and quit following all the extra biblical deceptions Truths they are teaching now.
Which were NOT practiced by the Apostles

Like what, for example . . .
- The Eucharist? (Matt. 26:26-28, Mark 14:22-24, Luke 22:19-20, and 1 Cor. 11:23-25).

- Confession/Reconciliation? (John 20:21-23, 2 Cor. 2:10, 2 Cor. 5:18-20:)

- The Priesthood? (1 Cor. 3:9, Cor. 2:10)

- Apostolic Succession? (Acts 1:20)

- Infant Baptism? (Acts 10:1-49, 11:13-14, Acts 16:23-33, 1 Cor. 1:16)

- Intercessory Prayer? (1 Tim. 2:1-3, 2 Cor. 1:6, Jas. 5:16, 1 Pet. 2:5-9, Rev. 5:8, 8:3-4)

Which one??

...as they started the Church of Jesus Christ which is known as the Body of Christ and not "catholic" seeing Jesus and His Apostles never said anything about "catholic"

The thing is I'm aware of the catholic scam so you may be able to fool others with the chicanery and subterfuge but it doesn't work on me pal so you'll have better luck with others.

Time for another Bible Lesson . . .

Acts 9:31 talks about how the Early Church grew throughout the region. The language used here describes the Catholic Church:
“Then the church throughout Judea, Galilee, and Samaria experienced peace and thus was strengthened. Living in the fear of the Lord and in the encouragement of the Holy Spirit, the church increased in numbers.”

According to Strong’s Greek Concordance – which is used by Protestants AND Catholics alike – the verse is translated as: “The true Church throughout all Judea . . .”

Here is the phrase in Greek:
η μεν ουν εκκλησια καθ ολης της ιουδαιας

The Catholic Church gets its name from the GREEK for “according to the whole” and “universal” - εκκλησια καθ ολης, which is pronounced “katah-holos”.

Εκκλησια (ekklesia) - A gathering of citizens called out from their homes into some public place, an assembly; CHURCH
καθ (katah) - Through out, according to
ολης (holos) - All, whole, completely
"ekklesia Kata-holos" = CATHOLIC CHURCH.

 

[Hiddenthings]

That's why our physical bodies undergo physical death. Regarding spiritual death of the soul, which would be eternal separation from God, that can be avoided depending on how we choose to live our temporal life on earth.

Soul is merely the whole life of a person. You don't have anything immortal in you I'm sorry. Immortality is the reward that the righteous seek.

Romans 2:7 (ESV): "To those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

 

[Hiddenthings]

There's also more than one meaning to words, and thus more than one way to be used in context.

True, but the word "soul" is never connected to an immortal, ethereal essence in Scripture. Many have attempted to find this concept within the Bible, but they always come up empty.

 

[Hiddenthings]

The word "immortal" means "not subject to physical death", or "imperishable". The soul itself that is within our physical body is spiritual and thus immortal because it isn't subject to physical death. Many don't understand this despite reading in Scripture that God is Spirit, that He made us in His image and likeness, and so on.

You are not born with anything spiritual Sabe.

Ecclesiastes 3:18-21 (ESV): "I said in my heart with regard to the children of man that God is testing them to show that they are but beasts. For what happens to the children of man and what happens to the beasts is the same; as one dies, so dies the other. They all have the same breath, and man has no advantage over the beasts, for all is vanity. All go to one place. All are from the dust, and to dust all return. Who knows whether the spirit (breath) of man goes upward and the spirit of the beast goes down into the earth?

Hard truth but one that demands us to set our minds on things above and not on things below.

But to your last point....

In what way are we different from the animals?

 

[Hiddenthings]

Again, we are different in that we are made in God's image and likeness, and other animals aren't, and He gave us dominion over those other animals. God also became human to die for us and not other animals.

Speak to what the difference is between "image" and "likeness"

tselem and demuth

It have nothing to do with our substance which as we have proven is no different to the animal kingdom.

 

[Hiddenthings]

Again, Gen. 2:7 goes on to say, "[...] and breathed upon his face the breath of life [...]". The act of having "breathed the breath of life upon" indicates giving man something. In Jn. 4:24, we read, "God is Spirit", and thus the "breath of life" is the breath of God which is the soul [a spirit], the soul as life. It is the breath of the Spirit of God that becomes a living spirit in man: God's image and likeness (Gen. 1:26). This wonderful thing which is a soul, a thing created by God to give man His image and likeness as an unquestionable sign of His Most Holy Paternity, shows signs of the qualities characteristic of Him Who creates it. It is therefore intelligent, spiritual, free, immortal, reasons, and so on, like the Father Who created it.

If you're unable to recognize just a few of the differences between humans and other animals I've mentioned, only God can give you the wisdom and understanding to do so.

The breath of life is simply giving man a breathing life....starting his lungs!

Image relates to appearance
Likeness relates to moral capacity and being able to reason upon spiritual things.

I've highlight in red your error.

Man became a "living soul," not an immortal soul. The Hebrew word nephesh, translated as "soul," actually refers to the body or life itself. For example, in Leviticus 17:11, 14, it is said, "the life (nephesh) is in the blood." In the Old Testament, nephesh appears around 754 times, with various translations: it is rendered as "soul" 476 times, "life" 119 times, "person" 25 times, "heart" 16 times, and "mind" 15 times, among other translations, many of which occur only once.

In this extensive usage, nephesh is frequently associated with death occurring about 326 times in reference to death. For instance, in Haggai 2:13, it is translated as "dead body," and it is similarly used in Leviticus 19:28, 21:1, 22:4, Numbers 5:2, 6:11, 9:6, 7, 10, and other instances to refer to the deceased.

Thus, the concept of nephesh does not describe an immortal, eternal soul, but rather the life force that is tied to the body, often in the context of mortality and death.

 

[Hiddenthings]

@Sabé

In the New Testament, the term "soul" is represented by the Greek word psuche, which is equivalent to the Hebrew nephesh. Of the 106 times it appears, 45 times it specifically refers to something subject to death. For instance, in Matthew 6:25, where it's translated as "life," it indicates that the soul is where the desires and needs of our earthly existence arise. Both nephesh and psuche come from roots meaning "to breathe," which is why a "living soul" refers to a living, breathing being.

The idea of an inherently immortal soul simply cannot be supported by the Bible. The Scriptures say, "the soul that sins shall die" (Ezekiel 18:4). Of Jesus, who never sinned, it is said, "He poured out his soul unto death" (Isaiah 53:12). Moreover, Paul makes a decisive argument in 1 Corinthians 15:18, stating that without the bodily resurrection, "they also that are fallen asleep in Christ are perished." How could Paul say that those who "sleep in Christ" are perished if they have immortal souls?

If people had immortal souls (or divine essence), their eternal state wouldn’t depend on resurrection, but Paul clearly links the resurrection to eternal life. This shows that Paul knew nothing of the doctrine of an inherently immortal soul (divine essence)

 

[Hiddenthings]

Paul understood that humans have a spiritual soul within their physical body, which is why he said, "let’s cleanse ourselves from all defilement of flesh and spirit" (2 Cor. 7:1). Therefore, your interpretation of certain other verses by him is inaccurate. You're currently one of those people where the phrase 'The most convincing argument is what you'd rather believe" applies to.

2 Corinthians 7:1 "Since we have these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from every defilement of body and spirit (mind), bringing holiness to completion in the fear of God."

Spirit here is referring to the mind - cleansing body and mind.

Same principle here: Ephesians 5:26 "that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word,"

Consider this context:

We often speak of having pure motives (minds i.e Spirit). But who can honestly say their motives are always completely pure, no hidden selfishness, no concealed pride, no subtle self-esteem? While we may feel confident that we are free from sexual impurity, we must recognize that there are other kinds of impurity that need to be identified and rejected.

The key thing to understand is that the power behind this process of cleansing is not human effort but divine influence (God's Word on the Mind). The verse begins with “having therefore these promises” the power comes from God's promises and the faith we place in them.

The Spirit in this verse refers to an intelligible hope that is expressed through both thought and action, rather than some divine essence that God imparts to everyone. It’s a hope that guides and shapes our mindset and behavior, rather than a passive gift which you believe in.

Striving for cleansing without embracing the promises leads to failure, while holding onto the promises without striving for personal purity keeps the pollution intact.

So, what are these promises? 2 Corinthians 6 provides the answer:

• "I will dwell in them and walk among them; I will be their God, and they shall be my people."
• "I will be a Father to you, and you will be my sons and daughters."

Because of these promises, the command for cleansing is clear: “Touch no unclean thing, and I will receive you” (2 Corinthians 6:16-18).

The promises of God offer both the motivation and the power for true cleansing, spiritually and morally (in the mind).

Sabe make sure you understand the context next time you quote a verse.