Hell as the default for humankind?

[Hiddenthings]

I am not following, afterlife and the LOF are not taught in the NT ?

Then what is taught in the NT

Perhaps you believe the Lake of Fire is literal?

Do you by chance believe in the immortality of the soul? This would cause you to interpret the Lake of Fire as a literal afterlife punishment.

Yeah, nah! It's highly symbolic but does speak to literal events.

Rev 20:14 speaks this to you if you care to look...death and the grave personified.

 

[Hiddenthings]

I am not following, afterlife and the LOF are not taught in the NT ?

Then what is taught in the NT ?

LOF - yes as a symbol
Afterlife - no...nothing happens afterlife lol...those eternal worms go to work!

 

[St. SteVen]

It's not that I think the picture is wrong, I just have a question why the concept of hell and the LOF aren't revealed in the OT and millions died unaware of their future in afterlife, and actually also the idea of afterlife in the OT isn't even crystal clear, the closest is in Dan 12:2 (2nd-century BC). Why wait so long with the introduction of salvation in the NT and the half of the posts on the forum curiously enough are about salvation.

Surely I believe this is part of God's plan, that's not the point, the question is why.

Gen 9:1 And God blessed Noah and his sons and said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth.

Why not tell Noah about the afterlife, hell, LOF and salvation ?

Good post, thanks.

A search on the term "realm of the dead" in the NIV shows 29 results.
Two of them are in Acts chapter two. The rest are in the OT. (obviously)

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[Hiddenthings]

Revelation 20:13–14 "And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades (grave) gave up the dead who were in them... Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire."

The "sea" is not to be taken literally, but symbolically represents the nations giving up their dead.

The last enemy to be destroyed is death itself, and naturally, the grave (often translated as "hell") will be no more.

The Lake of Fire symbolizes the complete and final removal of both death and the grave.

The final resurrection is set to occur around the same time.

 

[Behold]

The fact remains. Some are consigned to destruction while others are elected to life.

Wnat you posted is not a fact......its Lying Calvinism Doctrine.

No one is born to go to hell., and no one is born to go to heaven.
Everyone, since The Cross was raised, has been offered God's Salvation who is Jesus dying for their sin.
Will they choose Him or not, as that determines where you end up after you die.

All God does is honor your choice., for eternity.

Do you want to go to heaven, then give God your faith in Christ......and God gives the believer the New Birth.

Dont want to go...., then dont Trust in Christ, and Hell is waiting for the Christ rejector.

 

[Keiw]

The Plan?
- Create humankind in your own image.
- Give them free-will to choose.
- Pay their sin debt.
- Send them to Hell for not accepting a free gift.

What's wrong with this picture?

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Sheol( Hebrew) = Hades( Greek)=Hell(English). Both Sheol and Hades translate-the grave. Thus then so does hell.

 

[ProDeo]

Perhaps you believe the Lake of Fire is literal?

Uh, yes, what else ?

Rev 14:9 And another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand,
Rev 14:10 he also will drink the wine of God's wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.”

Rev 20:10 and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Not literal ?

How ?

Rev 21:8 But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”

And the next chapter, about the same people :

Rev 22:14 Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life and that they may enter the city by the gates.
Rev 22:15 Outside are the dogs and sorcerers and the sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

They still look pretty alive to me.

Forget about annihilation, it doesn't match.

 

[ProDeo]

I'm sure He did, but I'm also sure He had a plan for redemption before it ever happened too.

Yep, the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world, can you feel the love ?

I've addressed this before. We all have a conscience and nature itself teaches there is a God. I believe they will be judged on what they knew and how they responded to that limited revelation.

Agree, I still think they need to repent, receive forgiveness, know about Jesus, confess Jesus as Lord -- Filipp 2:10:11

And so this should happen in afterlife ?

 

[MatthewG]

Hello @St. SteVen

According to my perspective, all souls—including Jesus, who remained for three days until His resurrection—entered hell, where they remained until the souls were released and subsequently judged. Today, hell is no longer the central concern as many may assume. Instead, the prevailing issue is a form of spiritual loss. To address this, Yahavah—God—has established a dwelling place outside of His kingdom for those affected to reside.

 

[Hiddenthings]

Uh, yes, what else ?

Rev 14:9 And another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand,
Rev 14:10 he also will drink the wine of God's wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.”

Rev 20:10 and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Not literal ?

If you are able to discern the symbols, then your understanding would be different.

How ?

Rev 21:8 But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”

And the next chapter, about the same people :

Rev 22:14 Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life and that they may enter the city by the gates.
Rev 22:15 Outside are the dogs and sorcerers and the sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

They still look pretty alive to me.

Forget about annihilation, it doesn't match.

Correct you are speaking to those outside the city - not literal dogs but those who are represented as dogs.

A dog, considered an unclean animal, was commonly used by Israelites as a term of contempt for Gentiles who were outside the covenant ( Matt. 15:26–27). You know this is true and doesnt need further explaining! In the Law, the term also condemned the immoral practices associated with pagan worship, particularly male prostitution (Deut. 23:18).

Paul, in Philippians 3:2, uses the word to describe Judaizers, those insisting on justification by the Law, who, ironically, behaved no better than Gentiles in their opposition to the gospel. Such "dogs" are excluded from the New Jerusalem, where only the true Israel of God, faithful Jews and Gentiles alike (Rom. 2:28; 9:8)—are welcome within its gates.

No immaterial spirits have been demonstrated.
No specific place of eternal condemnation has been identified.
No evidence has been provided for an evil supernatural being.

You have people, good and bad!

That's all folks

 

[Hiddenthings]

@St. SteVen, from your previous posts, it’s not entirely clear whether you believe in a place called Hell with all the medieval and pagan associations, or if you actually oppose that view.

 

[St. SteVen]

@St. SteVen, from your previous posts, it’s not entirely clear whether you believe in a place called Hell with all the medieval and pagan associations, or if you actually oppose that view.

That's true. I do not "believe in a place called Hell with all the medieval and pagan associations".
I do, in fact, oppose that view.

Mark 9:49 NIV
Everyone will be salted with fire.

Malachi 3:2 NIV
But who can endure the day of his coming? Who can stand when he appears?
For he will be like a refiner’s fire or a launderer’s soap.

1 Corinthians 3:11-15 NIV
For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw,
13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light.
It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work.
14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward.
15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—
even though only as one escaping through the flames.

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[St. SteVen]

New topic:

The authority of the church over the believer. - The Body of Christ versus the institutional church

Believers everywhere are members of the church, the Body of Christ. But many also have a relationship with the institutional church. Few would claim that these are one-in-the-same. But in some sense, they may be. Christ (or the Apostles) have given the church authority over believers. We...

www.christianityboard.com

[

 

[St. SteVen]

New topic:

The authority of the church over the believer. - The Body of Christ versus the institutional church

Believers everywhere are members of the church, the Body of Christ. But many also have a relationship with the institutional church. Few would claim that these are one-in-the-same. But in some sense, they may be. Christ (or the Apostles) have given the church authority over believers. We...

www.christianityboard.com

[

 

[St. SteVen]

New topic:

Three pillars of redemption

Three pillars of redemption 1) God is under no obligation to punish human sinfulness. 2) Jesus died to pay the death penalty of sin for all humankind. 3) God is loving, kind, gracious and merciful toward those created in his own image.

www.christianityboard.com

[

 

[Jericho]

Agree, I still think they need to repent, receive forgiveness, know about Jesus, confess Jesus as Lord -- Filipp 2:10:11

And so this should happen in afterlife ?

I don't know; I don't pretend to have all the answers. But I will note that the thief on the cross didn't appear to repent or confess in the typical fashion, yet Jesus told him he would be with him in paradise. Jesus knew his heart. Maybe it will be the same for them.

 

[St. SteVen]

The Plan?
- Create humankind in your own image.
- Give them free-will to choose.
- Pay their sin debt.
- Send them to Hell for not accepting a free gift.

What's wrong with this picture?

 

[Behold]

- Send them to Hell for not accepting a free gift.

You send yourself to Hell, by refusing to choose the way out of this..

John 3:36

Jesus is "the Way"... out...... John 14:6

So, if a person refuses to trust in Christ and dies under God's wrath against their sin, then they CHOSE to not go to Heaven.
God honors your free will choice after you die.

 

[St. SteVen]

You send yourself to Hell, by refusing to choose the way out of this..

Who created the way into it?

And what about the countless billions who never had a choice?

You are left to whitewash a very ugly situation.

 

[Behold]

Who created the way into it?

Adam and Satan

And what about the countless billions who never had a choice?

Everyone gets a chance to Believe, as otherwise God would not be able to hold the unbeliever accountable.

You are left to whitewash a very ugly situation.

Im not here to spit on the Bible and falsely accuse God.
That's your ministry, remember @St. SteVen .?