Is it possible to lose salvation?

[Eternally Grateful]

Thank you for your damnation pandaflower.
It shows what a loving Christian you are.

Also, you have not replied to my scripture and you have NEVER provided any scripture.
You're here to give your opinion.
Your opinion matters not.

Also, since you're damning me, I'd like to make this observation.

IF we are saved by our DOCTRINE...as you seem to believe for damning me.....

then I would make absolutely sure, if I were you, that I had my doctrine 100% correct.

So typical of you..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Panda, Jesus our Lord said clearly that few would make it, Jesus being one with God certainly told us the truth of the matter. He warned many times that entering the Kingdom of God would not be easy, and that only a few would be saved. He did not teach that salvation was a one-time event or a guarantee, but rather a walk of obedience, endurance, and faithfulness to the end. He called people to follow Him, not just believe in Him with their mouth, but to live according to His words and commandments. His teaching shows clearly that it is possible to fall away, to be cast out, or to be found unworthy—even after receiving the truth. Jesus said,
“Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it” (Matthew 7:13–14).
The path to life is not wide or easy. It requires walking in truth, resisting sin, and obeying God.

In the same chapter, He gave this strong warning:
“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name…?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’” (Matthew 7:21–23). This clearly shows that calling Jesus “Lord” is not enough. If a person does not do the will of the Father—keeping His commandments and living righteously—they will be rejected.

Jesus told the parable of the sower to show that many people hear the word and receive it with joy, but later fall away. “But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises… immediately he stumbles” (Matthew 13:20–21).
This proves that some believe at first, but do not last—they are not saved in the end.

He also said, “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me. For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will save it” (Luke 9:23–24). Salvation is not a one-time prayer, it is a daily walk of self-denial and obedience.

When someone asked Him, “Lord, are there few who are saved?” He answered, “Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able. When once the Master of the house has risen up and shut the door… you begin to stand outside and knock… saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open for us,’ and He will answer… ‘I do not know you… Depart from Me, all you workers of iniquity’” (Luke 13:23–27). This shows that many will try to enter, even believing they belong to Him, but will be rejected because they continued in sin.

Jesus also said, “He who endures to the end shall be saved” (Matthew 24:13). Endurance is necessary. Salvation is not about beginning only, but finishing faithfully. In Revelation, He says to the churches, “Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life” (Revelation 2:10). That means the crown is not given at the beginning, but at the end—after remaining faithful through trials.

The idea that a person can never lose salvation is not from Jesus. He clearly taught that those who do not bear fruit will be cut off. “Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away… If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered” (John 15:2,6). These were branches in Him, yet they were cut off for not continuing in Him.

Therefore, the teaching of “once saved, always saved” contradicts the warnings of Jesus. Salvation is a covenant. We must remain in Him, walk in righteousness, obey the commandments, and endure to the end. Jesus is merciful and full of grace, but He will not save those who choose to turn away and live in sin. “Why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do the things which I say?” (Luke 6:46). Only those who hear His words and do them will stand.

All who call on His name take heed. The door is narrow. The way is difficult. But His grace is enough to strengthen us if we walk with Him each day, humbly, faithfully, and obediently until the end.

Blessings

True

we see it hear

99% of the worlds religion teach what you and @GodsGrace teach, that is we earn salvation by our deeds. By following Gods commands, and living up to some standard.

1% of all worlds religions teach it is salvation by grace through faith. Not of work.

it is so hard to believe Jesus gospel. The jews crucified him for telling the pharisees what we try to tell you day after day after day.

when will you repent. And recieve Gods grace gift. When will you enter Gods rest. When will you stop fighting your flesh. And humble yourself like the tax collector?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

None of what you said conflicts with my observations.

Jesus spoke of those who left his group. They left us because they were not one of us.

There are nominal believers. Those who claim Jesus yet are not known by him.
Jesus doesn't lose those who were never in him.
Those ones are not proof we can lose our salvation. Because they were not in him,he did not know them,that means they were not saved by him.

He can't lose those whom he never had.


I think it about time someone said what thinks itself subtle here.

I find it a shame there are those here dedicated to telling actual Christians here that we are not really secure in Christ.
They're trying to lead us to believe in the flesh,not the holy spirit.

The idea we save ourselves and as such we can lose that salvation.

They are not one of us.

Amen, In jesus own words.

All he has given me, I will lose non.

Our salvation and security is based on this promise

but people want to trust self..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Do some studying pandaflower.
Try to find out WHY they were "NOT OF US".

because they were never saved

they had a claimed faith only

You'd have to study some church history - which will be rather dangerous for you.
You might just find out the truth.

or study the Bible.
Don;e make the same mistake the jews made.

It seems you've neglected to read one of Jesus best teachings on loss of salvation.

Let's try again - if you dare.


John 15:1-2
1 "I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser.
2 "Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.


Try to read the above listening to what JESUS is saying.

Read verse 2:
Every branch IN ME that does not bear fruit....
God takes away.

panda....
the branch is IN JESUS...
the branch is saved.

The branch, if it does not bear fruit,
will be TAKEN AWAY....cut off...severed.


It is your prerogative NOT to listen to Jesus' teaching....
It is your prerogative NOT to obey Him....
It is your prerogative to misunderstand what HE is teaching.


And, there are MANY more such verses....
but I believe you find them uncomfortable and prefer to deny

You have been told numerous times

1. This is concerning fruit bearing.
2. This does not mean they lose salvation. If salvation is based on us bearing fruit.. then how much fruit does one have to bear to be saved? One apple. A million apples? How much is enough.

but you can;t see it

and using this passage like you are totally makes jesus contradict himself in all the passages I have given you which you still have failed to respond to. Over many discussions and chatrooms (again, one you seem to have mysteriously disappeared which is odd)

 

[marks]

Amen

they must water down the law. It’s also just like thepharisee why they get so angry. And fell they have to keep pushing. No one likes being told all their work will amount to zilch.

I wouldn't say zilch, though, as it forms our character, produces God's work in this world, hopefully bringing others into the kingdom, or strenthening them there. And in the age to come, glory and honor and who knows?

Much love!

 

[GodsGrace]

i asked you this in another chatroom. But you seem to have disappeared. Can you answer it here.

Show me works in Jesus and pauls gospel.

then paul is a liar
Jesus is a liar

I might as well throw my bible out. I can nto trust it.

OR
you could begin to understand what you're reading.

EG
I've replied to the below AT LEAST two times.

You don't LIKE my reply.

Let's try again:

John 1: 12. But AS MANY AS HAVE RECIEVED HIM, to THEM he gave the right to become children, even TO THEM WHO BELIEVE (no works)

Why do you have "no works" in parenthesis??
I asked you what BELIEVE means.
Been asking you for about 10 years now.

Believe means to be taught by, to follow, to learn from.
John is telling us to BELIEVE in Jesus.
Not in our mind, like the demons, but in our heart....
so we ACT on Jesus' words. Matthew 7:24 the wise man ACTS on the words of Jesus.


So are you telling me Jesus and John and Paul taught that we are NOT to learn from Jesus?

What did John teach?... The very John you've posted above:

John 3:36
36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."


1 John 3:7
7 Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous;


1 John 2:3-6
3 By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.
4 The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;
5 but whoever * keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him:
6 the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.

All of the above verses require good works.

John 3, FOR God so loved the world he gave his only son that WHOEVER BELIEVES (trusts) in him will NEVER PERISH, and LIVE FOREVER (eternal life) for the son was not sent to judge, but that the world might be saved, he who BELIEVES is NOT CONDEMNED, he who does not believe is condemned already (no works)

Please note that BELIEVE is in the present tense.
Please note that the word BELIEVE is used again.
Remember that BELIEVE means something specific in the language of that time.
§Which I've explained above.

Here are some more verses on doing good works:

Hebrews 13:16
16Do not neglect to do good and to share what you have, for such sacrifices are pleasing to God.

Ephesians 2:10
10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

James 2:26
26For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.


John 5:28-29 Jesus said:
28 "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
29 and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.


There are many more.
How many do you need?

Do you think Jesus was not a good communicator?

He's trying to teach how to PLEASE GOD.

John 4: 13 Jesus answered and said to her, “Whoever drinks of this water will thirst again, 14 but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will NEVER THIRST. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into EVERLASTING LIFE” (no works)

Excuse me EG.
YOU don't see works anywhere.
And I just posted 4 or 5 verses and there's pages more.

Jesus said WHOEVER DRINKS...
Not
WHOEVER DRANK.

We must keep on believing...
We must keep on drinking.

Paul taught that it's possible to fall away from the faith.
THIS is why everything is in the present tense.

Jesus taught that it's possible to fall away from the faith.
THIS is why everything is in the present tense.

John 5: 24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he whoever HEARS MY WORD and BELIEVES IN HIM WHO SENT ME who sent Me HAS ETERNAL LIFE and SHALL NOT COME INTO JUDGMENT but HAS PASSED FROM DEATH TO LIFE (No works)

See above.

You will NOT find any verse that teaches that good works are not necessary/required.
Jesus spent over 3 years teaching good works.

What do you think He taught for 3 years?
HOW to be a part of the Kingdom of God.


page 1 of 2

 

[GodsGrace]

page 2 of 2

John 6: 35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. HE WHO COMES TO ME shall NEVER HUNGER and he who BELIEVES IN ME shall NEVER THIRST (NO WORKS)

Same.
All your verses are the same.
BELIEVE is the key word.
If you come to understand what BELIEVE means...
you'll never think the same again.

John 6: 37: and THE ONE WHO COMES TO ME I WILL BY NO MEANS CAST OUT 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, thatof all He has given Me I SHAL LOSE NOTHING, but SHOULD RAISE IT UP ON THE LAST DAY. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that EVERYONE WHO SEES AND BELIEVES IN HIM MAY HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE AND I WILL (NOT MIGHT) RAISE HIM ON THE LAST DAY (NO WORKS)

BELIEVE
PRESENT TENSE
JESUS WILL NEVER cast anyone out....
unless, of course, they wish to leave on their own.

Luke 8:13 Jesus taught that one could believe FOR A WHILE:
13 "Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away.

JESUS said. They believe for A WHILE and fall away in times of temptation.

I don't think it's a good idea to change the words of Christ.

John 6: 47 Most assuredly, I say to you, HE WHO BELIEVES IN ME HAS EVERLASTING LIFE. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that THAT ONE MAY EAT OF IT AND NOT DIE 51 am the living bread which came down from heaven. IF ANYONE EATS THIS BREAD HE WILL LIVE FOREVER (NO WORKS)

John 6: 63 It is the SPIRIT WHO GIVES LIFE ; the flesh profits nothing. THE WORDS THAT I SPEAK to you ARE SPIRIT AND THEY ARE LIFE (SIGNIFYING THE BREAD FROM HEAVEN, THE FLESH AND BOOD ARE THE WORDS JESUS SPOKE. NOT THE PHYSICAL FOOD OR WORKS,)

EPH 1: 13 In Him YOU ALSO TRUSTED , after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also ,HAVING BELIEVED YOU WERE SEALED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT OF PROMISE 14 who IS THE GAURANTEE OF OUR INHERITANCE until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

THE INHERITANCE HE SAID WE ALREADY HAD IN THE 1ST 12 VERSES. (AGAIN, NO WORKS)

eph 2: 4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses,MADE US ALIVE together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and RAISED US UP TOGETHER , and MADE US SIT TOGETHER IN HEAVENLY PLACES 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For BY GRACE YOU HAVE BEEN SAVED (A COMPLETED ACTION) THROUGH FAITH , (AS MANY AS HAVE RECIEVED) and that NOT OF YOURSELVES ; it IS THE GIFT OF GOD, 9 NOT OF WORKS LEST ANYONE SHOULD BOAST (NO WORKS)

rom 4: 3 For what does the Scripture say? “ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD AND HE ACOUNTED IT TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.” 4 Now TO HIM WHO WORKS, THE WAGES ARE NOT COUNTED AS GRACE BUT DEBT (Works cancels out grace. and makes it a wage) 5 But TO HIM WHO DOES NOT WORK but BELIEVES ON HIM WHO JUSTIFIES THE UNGOLDY , his HIS FAITH IS ACCOUNTED FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS (AGAIN NO WORKS. PERIOD)

rom 4: 16 Therefore IT IF OF FAITH THAT IT MAY BE ACCORDING TO GRACE , so that THE PROMISE MAY BE SURE TO ALL THE SEED not only to those who are of the law, but also TO THOSE WHO ARE OF THE FAITH OF ABRAHAM , who is the father of us all (AGAIN, NO WORKS, IT IS OF GRACE THROUGH FAITH)

Rom 4: 23 Now it was not written for his sake alone that it was imputed to him, 24 but ALSO FOR US, IT SHALL BE IMPUTED TO US WHO BELIEVE IN HIM WHO RAISED UP JESUS OUR LORD FROM THE DEAD , 25 who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was RAISED BECAUSE OF OUR JUSTIFICATION (AGAIN NO WORKS)

Rom 11: 6 And IF BY GRACE, THAN IT IS NO LONGER OF WORKS, ; otherwise GRACE IS NO LONGER GRACE.But IF IT IS OF WORKS, THEN IT IS NO LONGER OF GRACE. OTHERWISE WORK IS NO LONGER WORK (AS i HAVE SAID NUMEROUS TIME, GRACE + WORKS = WORKS.. GRACE AND WORKS CAN NOT MIX IN THE AREA OF SALVATION. ITS LIKE MIXING OIL AND WATER)

2 Tim 1: 9 who HAS SAVED US (A COMPLETED ACTION) and called us with a holy calling, NOT ACCORDING TO OUR WORKS , but ACCORDING TO HIS OWN PURPOSE AND GRACE which was GIVEN TO US in Christ Jesus BEFORE TIME BEGAN (AGAIN, NO WORKS. BUT GRACE)

Titus 3: 4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS (GOOD DEEDS) WHICH WE HAVE DONE , but ACCORDING TO HIS MERCY HE SAVED USthrough the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that HAVING BEEN JUSTIFIED BY HIS GRACE we should become HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE
(AGAIN, NO QUESTION HERE. PAUL LEAVES NO QUESTION. NO GOOD DEED CAN SAVE US,. WE ARE SAVED BY GODS MERCY, AND GIVEN THE HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE. WHICH IS PROMISED BEFORE TIME BEGAN

Titus 1: 2 in HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE which GOD WHO CAN NOT LIE PROMISED BEFORE TIME BEGAN

this is what our faith is in, the grace and mercy of God. not our deeds.

All your verses are the same.
For instance Titus 3:4 not by works of righteousness but through His mercy.

1. This is a clear conflict with 1 John 3:7
Do you suppose that John and Paul didn't agree?

Also, I think you skipped the following verses in the very letter you quoted:

Titus 2:7, 10, 12
7 in all things show yourself to be an example of good deeds, with purity in doctrine, dignified,

10 not pilfering, but showing all good faith so that they will adorn the doctrine of God our Savior in every respect.

12 instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age,

14 who gave Himself for us to redeem us from every lawless deed, and to purify for Himself a people for His own possession, zealous for good deeds.


How to reconcile with your verse Titus 3:4?
You'll have to do this or live with a conflicted New Testament.

Also, Titus 1:2 speaks of a HOPE of salvation.

We will be receiving salvation at the end of our life.

1 Peter 1:6-9
6 In this you greatly rejoice, even though now for a little while, if necessary, you have been distressed by various trials,
7 so that the proof of your faith, being more precious than gold which is perishable, even though tested by fire, may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
8 and though you have not seen Him, you love Him, and though you do not see Him now, but believe in Him, you greatly rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory,
9 obtaining as the outcome of your faith the salvation of your souls.



Matthew 24.13 Jesus said.
13 "But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.


The NT is full of warnings about loss of salvation due to disobedience or apostacy.
If falling from the faith were impossible...
no warnings would be necessary.


Romans 11:
21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.
22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God's kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.

 

[GodsGrace]

We don;t fear losing salvation because God has not given us a spirit of fear. But a sound mind

we do not fear losing salvation because God is not a spirit of fear. But our ABBA father

we do not fear losing salvation, because we know we will never meet Gods standard. So have rested from our work of trying to meet this standard. And have learned to just follow him.

those who fears losing salvation fear because they do nto trust God. If they do not trust God. How can they be saved

You believe in OSAS.

THIS is not a biblical doctrine.

It was NEVER part of the teaching of the early church.
Teachings that have come about 1,800 years after the ascension of Christ are not biblical teachings.

If you studied some church history you'd know the above.

2 Timothy 4:3-4
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires,
4 and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Teachings that have come about 1,800 years after the ascension of Christ are not biblical teachings.

Exactly, the gnostics brought it in with the help of the devil.

 

[LoveYeshua]

None of what you said conflicts with my observations.

Jesus spoke of those who left his group. They left us because they were not one of us.

There are nominal believers. Those who claim Jesus yet are not known by him.
Jesus doesn't lose those who were never in him.
Those ones are not proof we can lose our salvation. Because they were not in him,he did not know them,that means they were not saved by him.

He can't lose those whom he never had.


I think it about time someone said what thinks itself subtle here.

I find it a shame there are those here dedicated to telling actual Christians here that we are not really secure in Christ.
They're trying to lead us to believe in the flesh,not the holy spirit.

The idea we save ourselves and as such we can lose that salvation.

They are not one of us.

You speak as if Jesus never warned His own followers to remain faithful, to endure, and to obey. But He did, many times. Jesus said, “He who endures to the end shall be saved” (Matthew 24:13). That is not about people who were never His—it is a clear word to His disciples, those already walking with Him. You say that those who fall away were never really saved. But Jesus gave a parable to answer exactly this kind of thinking. He spoke of the seed that fell on stony ground—these are people who “receive the word with joy,” who “believe for a while,” but in time of temptation they fall away (Luke 8:13). He didn’t say they never believed. He said they did believe for a time, but they didn’t last.

The danger is real. That’s why Jesus warned again and again, “Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming” (Matthew 24:42), and “Take heed, lest anyone deceive you” (Matthew 24:4). If salvation cannot be lost, why would the Lord Himself warn His own followers to remain watchful? You said that those who fall were “never really in Him.” But Jesus said, “Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away” (John 15:2). He didn’t say “not really in Me”—He said in Me. A branch that is in Him can be cut off if it becomes unfruitful. He also said, “If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered” (John 15:6). That is not a parable about false believers, but a warning to real ones. Jesus said plainly, “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father” (Matthew 7:21). He didn’t say “not everyone who says ‘Lord, Lord’ was never Mine.” He said that only those who do the will of the Father will enter.

The real danger is not telling people to “trust in the flesh,” as you say. The danger is telling them to relax and stop obeying Christ, because they think they are secure no matter what they do. That is not the voice of the Shepherd—it’s the voice of deception. Jesus said His sheep hear His voice, and they follow Him (John 10:27). He did not say they are free to wander and still be safe. To follow means to obey.

No one can snatch us out of His hand, yes—but that doesn’t mean we cannot walk away. He gives eternal life to those who remain in Him, who follow Him, who do the will of the Father. He will never leave us—but He warned us not to leave Him. So the truth is simple. If we stay with Jesus, we are safe. If we leave Him, He will not force us to stay.

That’s not trusting the flesh, that’s obeying the Master.

 

[pandaflower]

Amen, In jesus own words.

All he has given me, I will lose non.

Our salvation and security is based on this promise

but people want to trust self..

Love of the flesh.

That's not of Christ.
It's shocking to witness how many enemies of the gospel there are.

 

[pandaflower]

You speak as if Jesus never warned His own followers to remain faithful, to endure, and to obey. But He did, many times. Jesus said, “He who endures to the end shall be saved” (Matthew 24:13). That is not about people who were never His—it is a clear word to His disciples, those already walking with Him. You say that those who fall away were never really saved. But Jesus gave a parable to answer exactly this kind of thinking. He spoke of the seed that fell on stony ground—these are people who “receive the word with joy,” who “believe for a while,” but in time of temptation they fall away (Luke 8:13). He didn’t say they never believed. He said they did believe for a time, but they didn’t last.

The danger is real. That’s why Jesus warned again and again, “Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming” (Matthew 24:42), and “Take heed, lest anyone deceive you” (Matthew 24:4). If salvation cannot be lost, why would the Lord Himself warn His own followers to remain watchful? You said that those who fall were “never really in Him.” But Jesus said, “Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away” (John 15:2). He didn’t say “not really in Me”—He said in Me. A branch that is in Him can be cut off if it becomes unfruitful. He also said, “If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered” (John 15:6). That is not a parable about false believers, but a warning to real ones. Jesus said plainly, “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father” (Matthew 7:21). He didn’t say “not everyone who says ‘Lord, Lord’ was never Mine.” He said that only those who do the will of the Father will enter.

The real danger is not telling people to “trust in the flesh,” as you say. The danger is telling them to relax and stop obeying Christ, because they think they are secure no matter what they do. That is not the voice of the Shepherd—it’s the voice of deception. Jesus said His sheep hear His voice, and they follow Him (John 10:27). He did not say they are free to wander and still be safe. To follow means to obey.

No one can snatch us out of His hand, yes—but that doesn’t mean we cannot walk away. He gives eternal life to those who remain in Him, who follow Him, who do the will of the Father. He will never leave us—but He warned us not to leave Him. So the truth is simple. If we stay with Jesus, we are safe. If we leave Him, He will not force us to stay.

That’s not trusting the flesh, that’s obeying the Master.

When you don't understand the gospel,you don't know anything related to its covenant.

The more you and others promote works redemption,the more you demonstrate that very thing.

We don't work to stay secure in Christ.

 

[pandaflower]

There are a few who will drive you nuts try8ing to promote self.

sadly I think a lot are just arguing against calvinism, or fatalism. And not really the truth. But in doing so. They end up fighting the truth.

I've arrived at the conclusion here that Jesus did during his encounter with people.

Not everyone who says Lord,Lord, are his.

 

[LoveYeshua]

When you don't understand the gospel,you don't know anything related to its covenant.

The more you and others promote works redemption,the more you demonstrate that very thing.

We don't work to stay secure in Christ.

I can see you will not listen, so I will leave you be. The Gospels are the words of Christ—He is the only one who can save you or any of us. Listen to the Master first and above all else.

He said, “My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish” (John 10:27–28). He will not let you down, but you must listen to Him and do what He asks. His commandments are not a burden—they are a blessing.

But when you reject His words and follow another gospel, be careful. Jesus said, “He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him—the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day” (John 12:48). And to the faithful, He gave this warning: “He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life” (Revelation 3:5). So yes, it is possible for a name to be blotted out.

We are not saved by theories or by twisting Scripture—we are saved by hearing and doing the words of Jesus.

 

[pandaflower]

I can see you will not listen, so I will leave you be. The Gospels are the words of Christ—He is the only one who can save you or any of us. Listen to the Master first and above all else.

He said, “My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish” (John 10:27–28). He will not let you down, but you must listen to Him and do what He asks. His commandments are not a burden—they are a blessing.

But when you reject His words and follow another gospel, be careful. Jesus said, “He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him—the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day” (John 12:48). And to the faithful, He gave this warning: “He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life” (Revelation 3:5). So yes, it is possible for a name to be blotted out.

We are not saved by theories or by twisting Scripture—we are saved by hearing and doing the words of Jesus.

If you believed the gospels were the words of Christ you and others here wouldn't dare to rewrite them under your own pseudonym anonymously on forum boards.

 

[pandaflower]

So typical of you..

They don't know the word of God. They don't respect the words of God. Which is how they and others here write their own worldly doctrine that deifies the flesh.

They use that as a launch pad to condemn actual scripture by insisting their fiction is what Jesus actually said.

And grace is not very adept in reading comprehension.
I didn't damn them.

I'm thinking we are dealing with very young children. Maybe their parents drag them to church. And they hate that. So to get back at their folks they bad mouth their faith anonymously online.

Someone who denies Jesus teachings as written does not love Yeshua.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

f you believed the gospels were the words of Christ you and others here wouldn't dare to rewrite them under your own pseudonym anonymously on forum boards.

You're posting under your own pseudonym anonymously, right?

Or did Yo Momma name you "Panda Flower"?

 

[ProDeo]

As I've said, I gave scripture. You deny them. As you deny the whole of the gospel message itself.

When the scriptures printed in the Bible don't reach you, and you deny scriptures I've already posted, I'll leave you to your damnation.

What ?!

Making OSAS a salvation issue ?

 

[ShineTheLight]

Matthew 24.13 Jesus said.
13 "But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.


The NT is full of warnings about loss of salvation due to disobedience or apostacy.
If falling from the faith were impossible...
no warnings would be necessary.


Romans 11:
21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.
22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God's kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.

I'll add this.

Hebrews 6:4-12
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.
9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.
10 For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.
11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
12 That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

They don't know the word of God. They don't respect the words of God.

The more you and others promote works redemption,the more you demonstrate that very thing.

We don't work to stay secure in Christ.

2 Timothy 2:15
Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman who needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

James 2:14-18
14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

Matthew 7:16-20
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

John 15:4-6
4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

1 John 2:4
If anyone says, “I know Him,” but does not keep His commandments, he is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Titus 1:16
They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

Matthew 3:8-10
8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:
9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Isaiah 1:18-20
18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
19 If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:
20 But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it.

Luke 13:1-5
1 There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices.
2 And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?
3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?
5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Ezekiel 18:29:32
29 Yet saith the house of Israel, The way of the Lord is not equal. O house of Israel, are not my ways equal? are not your ways unequal?
30 Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord God. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin.
31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
32 For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord God: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.

Revelation 3:19-20
19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Mark 6:10-12
10 And he said unto them, In what place soever ye enter into an house, there abide till ye depart from that place.
11 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.
12 And they went out, and preached that men should repent.

Luke 3:3-11
3 And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;
4 As it is written in the book of the words of Esaias the prophet, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.
5 Every valley shall be filled, and every mountain and hill shall be brought low; and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough ways shall be made smooth;
6 And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.
7 Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
8 Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
9 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
10 And the people asked him, saying, What shall we do then?
11 He answereth and saith unto them, He that hath two coats, let him impart to him that hath none; and he that hath meat, let him do likewise.

 

[ProDeo]

True

This is funny, you say true what @LoveYeshua said :

@LoveYeshua -
Therefore, the teaching of “once saved, always saved” contradicts the warnings of Jesus. Salvation is a covenant. We must remain in Him, walk in righteousness, obey the commandments, and endure to the end. Jesus is merciful and full of grace, but He will not save those who choose to turn away and live in sin. “Why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do the things which I say?” (Luke 6:46). Only those who hear His words and do them will stand.

99% of the worlds religion teach what you and @GodsGrace teach, that is we earn salvation by our deeds. By following Gods commands, and living up to some standard.

No, no, no, that's not true, not what @GodsGrace and @LoveYeshua are saying and me neither.

Grace through Jesus Christ -> Faith -> Repentance (saved) -> Fruits -> Endurance -> Death -> Eternal Life

When we repent and born again we receive the indwelling Holy Spirit and become the new man, a new creation and the Holy Spirit will convince us of sin, we start to change, produce fruit. As long as we abide in Christ and don't start to : And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption as a habit we remain saved.

Hebr 6:4 For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit,
Hebr 6:5 and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come,
Hebr 6:6 and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.
Hebr 6:7 For land that has drunk the rain that often falls on it, and produces a crop useful to those for whose sake it is cultivated, receives a blessing from God.
Hebr 6:8 But if it bears thorns and thistles, it is worthless and near to being cursed, and its end is to be burned.
Hebr 6:9 Though we speak in this way, yet in your case, beloved, we feel sure of better things—things that belong to salvation.
Hebr 6:10 For God is not unjust so as to overlook your work and the love that you have shown for his name in serving the saints, as you still do.
Hebr 6:11 And we desire each one of you to show the same earnestness to have the full assurance of hope until the end,
Hebr 6:12 so that you may not be sluggish, but imitators of those who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

Spoken to believers as verse 10 confirms : as you still do.

I have little doubt that all who participate in this thread are saved and will endure till the end, but it is not a done deal yet, verse 4-6 is not a theoretical impossibility. It happens. Just pray to the Lord He will keep you from falling.