Is it possible to lose salvation?

[marks]

Self as savior.

It's a tragedy.

It's self deception, or a light view of sin. The only person who thinks they are staying saved because they are not sinning doesn't understand about sin, and how it's really the outworking of the flesh, no matter how "minor" the sin may seem to them.

Much love!

 

[GodsGrace]

I have done that. And you ignore it all so to make your argument against God's free irrevocable gift of eternal security in his salvation.

You will continue to make arguments against the Gospel.

No scripture.
No conversation.

You believe in OSAS?

Jesus, Paul and the other writers did not.

The following scripture shows that OSAS is not a biblical teaching:


Colossians 1:21-23
21 And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds,
22 yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach -
23 if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.


Matthew 24:10-12
10 "At that time many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another.
11 "Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many. (OSAS was never taught in the church till very recently-the 1800's).
12 "Because lawlessness is increased, most people's love will grow cold.


Matthew 24.13
13 "But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.


1 Corinthians 9:27
27 but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified.


1 Timothy 4:1
1 But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,

 

[GodsGrace]

From my perspective,

Through the sacrificial blood of Jesus, salvation from sin has been made available to all. However, not everyone enters the Kingdom of Heaven, as doing so requires an intentional choice to turn toward God. Many remain in spiritual darkness—or spiritual deadness—unaware or unresponsive to the light and life offered through Yeshua. This spiritual awakening occurs in those who believe, and it is through Him that good works are accomplished. He alone receives credit for them.

Entrance into the Kingdom of God is granted to those who choose faithfulness toward Yahavah—God. This is a deeply personal decision. I personally made that choice to accept Yeshua at the age of 26. And while Yahavah remains faithful, He grants each person the freedom to walk away. Our continued faithfulness is not coerced; it rests entirely on our willingness to remain in Him.

Regarding the question of losing salvation: in terms of our sins being paid for, salvation is a transition from one spiritual state to another—a deliverance. However, individuals may choose to return to spiritual darkness or deadness by stepping away from that transformed state.

I do not subscribe to the belief of “once saved, always saved.” Salvation and relationship with God are rooted in personal choices. Only Yahavah can see the true condition of the human heart. He does not force anyone to remain in one spiritual position or another—that decision lies with each of us. Yet, He consistently draws those with willing hearts, and He delights in the faith of those who seek Him diligently.

Great post MatthewG!

Some Christians fight this all the way....
I've always wondered why.

If they don't believe in sinning.....why fear losing salvation?

Maybe it's just nice to feel secure WHILE one is sinning?
And being disobedient to God.

Having to debate the necessity of obedience to God is rather alarming.

 

[GodsGrace]

This is flawed in so many ways

OSAS means just that once a person is forgiven of all sin. and applied the righteousness of Christ. He is saved forever.

ETERNAL SECIRTY , if it is not eternal. is not eternal secuirty.

You added a condition. hence this would be CONDITIONAL security.

not sure why you are the one who does not seem to understand these basic biblical truths.

The cross is the means of salvation.

God does not save those who do not trust him.

Correct!
Security is conditional.

It's conditional on following the teachings of Jesus.

Matthew 7:46
46 "Why do you call Me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say?

 

[pandaflower]

No scripture.
No conversation.

You believe in OSAS?

Jesus, Paul and the other writers did not.

The following scripture shows that OSAS is not a biblical teaching:


Colossians 1:21-23
21 And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds,
22 yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach -
23 if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.


Matthew 24:10-12
10 "At that time many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another.
11 "Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many. (OSAS was never taught in the church till very recently-the 1800's).
12 "Because lawlessness is increased, most people's love will grow cold.


Matthew 24.13
13 "But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.


1 Corinthians 9:27
27 but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified.


1 Timothy 4:1
1 But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,

As I've said, I gave scripture. You deny them. As you deny the whole of the gospel message itself.

When the scriptures printed in the Bible don't reach you, and you deny scriptures I've already posted, I'll leave you to your damnation.

 

[GodsGrace]

You teach Faith + Works = Salvation, and the Bible teaches Saving Faith has Works.

No. I don't teach this.
The NT teaches this.
And if I haven't offered enough scripture it's because you don't care to know what Jesus taught but prefer to learn what the new churches teach....which was NEVER taught in the early church and never taught till the 1800's.
I suppose this means nothing to you.

Faith without works is DEAD.

James 2:26
26 For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

If your works are required, you are NOT secure.

Works ARE required.
We are saved FOR GOOD WORKS.
You need even more scripture?

Ephesians 2:10
10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.


Matthew 5:16
16In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven.


Hebrews 13:16
16Do not neglect to do good and to share what you have, for such sacrifices are pleasing to God.


Galatians 6:9
9And let us not grow weary of doing good, for in due season we will reap, if we do not give up.


Titus 2:14
14Who gave himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people for his own possession who are zealous for good works.


How does one read the NT and then state that good works are NOT required??

Please post some verses that sustain your position that good works are not necessary.

What does it mean to you to "remain in Christ"? How do you do that?

Much love!

To remain in Christ means to obey Him and further the Kingdom of God by bearing fruit.

As Jesus said and to which you've never replied:


John 15:1-2
1 "I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser.
2 "Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.


Every branch IN JESUS that does NOT bear fruit....
God takes away.

 

[GodsGrace]

As I've said, I gave scripture. You deny them. As you deny the whole of the gospel message itself.

When the scriptures printed in the Bible don't reach you, and you deny scriptures I've already posted, I'll leave you to your damnation.

Thank you for your damnation pandaflower.
It shows what a loving Christian you are.

Also, you have not replied to my scripture and you have NEVER provided any scripture.
You're here to give your opinion.
Your opinion matters not.

Also, since you're damning me, I'd like to make this observation.

IF we are saved by our DOCTRINE...as you seem to believe for damning me.....

then I would make absolutely sure, if I were you, that I had my doctrine 100% correct.

 

[pandaflower]

I suggest anyone thinking to believe they can lose their salvation due to the conflict that interjects into this discussion consider a couple of truths.

God is sovereign. When he tells you salvation is not of your own doing, it is a free irrevocable gift of God.

It is not you,it is God.

This is so that you cannot boast that you help God to save you,and keep you in his grace.

In other words,God tells us,we cannot lose our salvation because we did not do anything to aquire it for ourselves.

Let go and let God.

The ego in our flesh has a hard time with that one.

We work in this world to keep our lives on track. Job,bills,career,savings,mortgage. All these things we need to work for so to stay secure in this life.

It can be hard to let go and accept being eternally secure in the salvation of God in that eternal life that comes after.

That God saved us all on his own.
By his divine sovereign choice to free us eternally.

And we,hearing his call to that eternal assurance only have to trust we are worth it. Jesus died to set us free.

And we here,some here, deny that.

We think we have to obey and keep God happy so he keeps us saved.

How does that mindset think to later say they trust God? When they insist repeatedly,they don't trust they're saved unless they work for it?

 

[LoveYeshua]

I suggest anyone thinking to believe they can lose their salvation due to the conflict that interjects into this discussion consider a couple of truths.

God is sovereign. When he tells you salvation is not of your own doing, it is a free irrevocable gift of God.

It is not you,it is God.

This is so that you cannot boast that you help God to save you,and keep you in his grace.

In other words,God tells us,we cannot lose our salvation because we did not do anything to aquire it for ourselves.

Let go and let God.

The ego in our flesh has a hard time with that one.

We work in this world to keep our lives on track. Job,bills,career,savings,mortgage. All these things we need to work for so to stay secure in this life.

It can be hard to let go and accept being eternally secure in the salvation of God in that eternal life that comes after.

That God saved us all on his own.
By his divine sovereign choice to free us eternally.

And we,hearing his call to that eternal assurance only have to trust we are worth it. Jesus died to set us free.

And we here,some here, deny that.

We think we have to obey and keep God happy so he keeps us saved.

How does that mindset think to later say they trust God? When they insist repeatedly,they don't trust they're saved unless they work for it?

Panda, Jesus our Lord said clearly that few would make it, Jesus being one with God certainly told us the truth of the matter. He warned many times that entering the Kingdom of God would not be easy, and that only a few would be saved. He did not teach that salvation was a one-time event or a guarantee, but rather a walk of obedience, endurance, and faithfulness to the end. He called people to follow Him, not just believe in Him with their mouth, but to live according to His words and commandments. His teaching shows clearly that it is possible to fall away, to be cast out, or to be found unworthy—even after receiving the truth. Jesus said,
“Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it” (Matthew 7:13–14).
The path to life is not wide or easy. It requires walking in truth, resisting sin, and obeying God.

In the same chapter, He gave this strong warning:
“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name…?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’” (Matthew 7:21–23). This clearly shows that calling Jesus “Lord” is not enough. If a person does not do the will of the Father—keeping His commandments and living righteously—they will be rejected.

Jesus told the parable of the sower to show that many people hear the word and receive it with joy, but later fall away. “But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises… immediately he stumbles” (Matthew 13:20–21).
This proves that some believe at first, but do not last—they are not saved in the end.

He also said, “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me. For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will save it” (Luke 9:23–24). Salvation is not a one-time prayer, it is a daily walk of self-denial and obedience.

When someone asked Him, “Lord, are there few who are saved?” He answered, “Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able. When once the Master of the house has risen up and shut the door… you begin to stand outside and knock… saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open for us,’ and He will answer… ‘I do not know you… Depart from Me, all you workers of iniquity’” (Luke 13:23–27). This shows that many will try to enter, even believing they belong to Him, but will be rejected because they continued in sin.

Jesus also said, “He who endures to the end shall be saved” (Matthew 24:13). Endurance is necessary. Salvation is not about beginning only, but finishing faithfully. In Revelation, He says to the churches, “Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life” (Revelation 2:10). That means the crown is not given at the beginning, but at the end—after remaining faithful through trials.

The idea that a person can never lose salvation is not from Jesus. He clearly taught that those who do not bear fruit will be cut off. “Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away… If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered” (John 15:2,6). These were branches in Him, yet they were cut off for not continuing in Him.

Therefore, the teaching of “once saved, always saved” contradicts the warnings of Jesus. Salvation is a covenant. We must remain in Him, walk in righteousness, obey the commandments, and endure to the end. Jesus is merciful and full of grace, but He will not save those who choose to turn away and live in sin. “Why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do the things which I say?” (Luke 6:46). Only those who hear His words and do them will stand.

All who call on His name take heed. The door is narrow. The way is difficult. But His grace is enough to strengthen us if we walk with Him each day, humbly, faithfully, and obediently until the end.

Blessings

 

[marks]

No. I don't teach this.
The NT teaches this.
And if I haven't offered enough scripture it's because you don't care to know what Jesus taught but prefer to learn what the new churches teach....which was NEVER taught in the early church and never taught till the 1800's.
I suppose this means nothing to you.

Faith without works is DEAD.

James 2:26
26 For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.


Works ARE required.
We are saved FOR GOOD WORKS.
You need even more scripture?

Ephesians 2:10
10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.


Matthew 5:16
16In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven.


Hebrews 13:16
16Do not neglect to do good and to share what you have, for such sacrifices are pleasing to God.


Galatians 6:9
9And let us not grow weary of doing good, for in due season we will reap, if we do not give up.


Titus 2:14
14Who gave himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people for his own possession who are zealous for good works.


How does one read the NT and then state that good works are NOT required??

Please post some verses that sustain your position that good works are not necessary.

To remain in Christ means to obey Him and further the Kingdom of God by bearing fruit.

As Jesus said and to which you've never replied:


John 15:1-2
1 "I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser.
2 "Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.


Every branch IN JESUS that does NOT bear fruit....
God takes away.

Everything in the Bible supports what I'm saying, and all of the verses you've posted, all are in harmony with this fact. None of them states that a saved person who lacks works stops being saved.

Rather, it's clear throughout, the saved person is . . . wait for it . . . born again . . . which means . . . wait for it . . . they are different. If you are not different, then what makes you think you are saved? This is what Jesus taught, what James wrote, "Make the tree good, or make the tree evil", otherwise you don't know what side of things you are on.

If the man is born again, he's been born of God and nothing in Scripture teaches that may be lost. Peter wrote we are saved by the living word of God that remains forever. John wrote things that simply become false if someone who is born from God is then lost.

Yes, every branch in Jesus that does not bear fruit, the Father "airei" which means to lift up and carry away. This is not a verse about the Father giving spiritual death back to one of His children. This is a verse about the Father carrying away the unfruitful branch.

Every verse that you think means someone who is alive by the Holy Spirit, being baptized into Christ, may later be cast away from God, it doesn't say that. They say things that sound like they could be saying that, but look more closely. And look more closely a those that assure us our baptism into Jesus' body is forever, and see that they in fact say exactly that, or words to that very effect.

Much love!

 

[pandaflower]

Panda, Jesus our Lord said clearly that few would make it, Jesus being one with God certainly told us the truth of the matter. He warned many times that entering the Kingdom of God would not be easy, and that only a few would be saved. He did not teach that salvation was a one-time event or a guarantee, but rather a walk of obedience, endurance, and faithfulness to the end. He called people to follow Him, not just believe in Him with their mouth, but to live according to His words and commandments. His teaching shows clearly that it is possible to fall away, to be cast out, or to be found unworthy—even after receiving the truth. Jesus said,
“Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it” (Matthew 7:13–14).
The path to life is not wide or easy. It requires walking in truth, resisting sin, and obeying God.

In the same chapter, He gave this strong warning:
“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name…?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’” (Matthew 7:21–23). This clearly shows that calling Jesus “Lord” is not enough. If a person does not do the will of the Father—keeping His commandments and living righteously—they will be rejected.

Jesus told the parable of the sower to show that many people hear the word and receive it with joy, but later fall away. “But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises… immediately he stumbles” (Matthew 13:20–21).
This proves that some believe at first, but do not last—they are not saved in the end.

He also said, “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me. For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will save it” (Luke 9:23–24). Salvation is not a one-time prayer, it is a daily walk of self-denial and obedience.

When someone asked Him, “Lord, are there few who are saved?” He answered, “Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able. When once the Master of the house has risen up and shut the door… you begin to stand outside and knock… saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open for us,’ and He will answer… ‘I do not know you… Depart from Me, all you workers of iniquity’” (Luke 13:23–27). This shows that many will try to enter, even believing they belong to Him, but will be rejected because they continued in sin.

Jesus also said, “He who endures to the end shall be saved” (Matthew 24:13). Endurance is necessary. Salvation is not about beginning only, but finishing faithfully. In Revelation, He says to the churches, “Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life” (Revelation 2:10). That means the crown is not given at the beginning, but at the end—after remaining faithful through trials.

The idea that a person can never lose salvation is not from Jesus. He clearly taught that those who do not bear fruit will be cut off. “Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away… If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered” (John 15:2,6). These were branches in Him, yet they were cut off for not continuing in Him.

Therefore, the teaching of “once saved, always saved” contradicts the warnings of Jesus. Salvation is a covenant. We must remain in Him, walk in righteousness, obey the commandments, and endure to the end. Jesus is merciful and full of grace, but He will not save those who choose to turn away and live in sin. “Why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do the things which I say?” (Luke 6:46). Only those who hear His words and do them will stand.

All who call on His name take heed. The door is narrow. The way is difficult. But His grace is enough to strengthen us if we walk with Him each day, humbly, faithfully, and obediently until the end.

Blessings

None of what you said conflicts with my observations.

Jesus spoke of those who left his group. They left us because they were not one of us.

There are nominal believers. Those who claim Jesus yet are not known by him.
Jesus doesn't lose those who were never in him.
Those ones are not proof we can lose our salvation. Because they were not in him,he did not know them,that means they were not saved by him.

He can't lose those whom he never had.


I think it about time someone said what thinks itself subtle here.

I find it a shame there are those here dedicated to telling actual Christians here that we are not really secure in Christ.
They're trying to lead us to believe in the flesh,not the holy spirit.

The idea we save ourselves and as such we can lose that salvation.

They are not one of us.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I learned a long time ago. When I meet someone who makes Jesus in their image and likeness,we have nothing in common.

Hopefully,there aren't that many anti-gospel advocates here.

There are a few who will drive you nuts try8ing to promote self.

sadly I think a lot are just arguing against calvinism, or fatalism. And not really the truth. But in doing so. They end up fighting the truth.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

It's self deception, or a light view of sin. The only person who thinks they are staying saved because they are not sinning doesn't understand about sin, and how it's really the outworking of the flesh, no matter how "minor" the sin may seem to them.

Much love!

Amen

they must water down the law. It’s also just like thepharisee why they get so angry. And fell they have to keep pushing. No one likes being told all their work will amount to zilch.

 

[GodsGrace]

Everything in the Bible supports what I'm saying, and all of the verses you've posted, all are in harmony with this fact. None of them states that a saved person who lacks works stops being saved.

Rather, it's clear throughout, the saved person is . . . wait for it . . . born again . . . which means . . . wait for it . . . they are different. If you are not different, then what makes you think you are saved? This is what Jesus taught, what James wrote, "Make the tree good, or make the tree evil", otherwise you don't know what side of things you are on.

If the man is born again, he's been born of God and nothing in Scripture teaches that may be lost. Peter wrote we are saved by the living word of God that remains forever. John wrote things that simply become false if someone who is born from God is then lost.

Yes, every branch in Jesus that does not bear fruit, the Father "airei" which means to lift up and carry away. This is not a verse about the Father giving spiritual death back to one of His children. This is a verse about the Father carrying away the unfruitful branch.

Every verse that you think means someone who is alive by the Holy Spirit, being baptized into Christ, may later be cast away from God, it doesn't say that. They say things that sound like they could be saying that, but look more closely. And look more closely a those that assure us our baptism into Jesus' body is forever, and see that they in fact say exactly that, or words to that very effect.

Much love!

marks,
You deny plain and simple scripture.

You deny what Jesus taught.

Why don't you post my scripture and explain how it DOES NOT state what it plainly states.

John 15:1-2 airei means to LIFT UP and CARRY AWAY???

You like Strong's?

Fine.
Then go back to Strong's and post ALL of the definitions for airei.

You'll find that you skipped over the ones that Jesus meant and posted the meaning YOU like the best.
Unfortunately, YOU are not a Greek expert - which is HOW professional translators translate...by using CONTEXT.

And trying to twist scripture with Strongs is most foolish.
It's like trying to learn or read a language using a dictionary.

I'll be waiting for the ENTIRE definition in Strongs.
Let's see how honest you are.

And, while we're waiting...
here's what airei means:

, put away, remove, take (away, up)
NASB: take, taken away, picked, pick, takes away, away, take away


And if you want a good translation it would be:
TO SEVER

 

[Eternally Grateful]

No scripture.
No conversation.

You believe in OSAS?

Jesus, Paul and the other writers did not.

The gospe according to Jesus and paul. No works included

i asked you this in another chatroom. But you seem to have disappeared. Can you answer it here.

Show me works in Jesus and pauls gospel.

then paul is a liar
Jesus is a liar

I might as well throw my bible out. I can nto trust it.

John 1: 12. But AS MANY AS HAVE RECIEVED HIM, to THEM he gave the right to become children, even TO THEM WHO BELIEVE (no works)

John 3, FOR God so loved the world he gave his only son that WHOEVER BELIEVES (trusts) in him will NEVER PERISH, and LIVE FOREVER (eternal life) for the son was not sent to judge, but that the world might be saved, he who BELIEVES is NOT CONDEMNED, he who does not believe is condemned already (no works)

John 4: 13 Jesus answered and said to her, “Whoever drinks of this water will thirst again, 14 but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will NEVER THIRST. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into EVERLASTING LIFE” (no works)

John 5: 24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he whoever HEARS MY WORD and BELIEVES IN HIM WHO SENT ME who sent Me HAS ETERNAL LIFE and SHALL NOT COME INTO JUDGMENT but HAS PASSED FROM DEATH TO LIFE (No works)

John 6: 35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. HE WHO COMES TO ME shall NEVER HUNGER and he who BELIEVES IN ME shall NEVER THIRST (NO WORKS)

John 6: 37: and THE ONE WHO COMES TO ME I WILL BY NO MEANS CAST OUT 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, thatof all He has given Me I SHAL LOSE NOTHING, but SHOULD RAISE IT UP ON THE LAST DAY. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that EVERYONE WHO SEES AND BELIEVES IN HIM MAY HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE AND I WILL (NOT MIGHT) RAISE HIM ON THE LAST DAY (NO WORKS)

John 6: 47 Most assuredly, I say to you, HE WHO BELIEVES IN ME HAS EVERLASTING LIFE. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that THAT ONE MAY EAT OF IT AND NOT DIE 51 am the living bread which came down from heaven. IF ANYONE EATS THIS BREAD HE WILL LIVE FOREVER (NO WORKS)

John 6: 63 It is the SPIRIT WHO GIVES LIFE ; the flesh profits nothing. THE WORDS THAT I SPEAK to you ARE SPIRIT AND THEY ARE LIFE (SIGNIFYING THE BREAD FROM HEAVEN, THE FLESH AND BOOD ARE THE WORDS JESUS SPOKE. NOT THE PHYSICAL FOOD OR WORKS,)

EPH 1: 13 In Him YOU ALSO TRUSTED , after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also ,HAVING BELIEVED YOU WERE SEALED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT OF PROMISE 14 who IS THE GAURANTEE OF OUR INHERITANCE until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

THE INHERITANCE HE SAID WE ALREADY HAD IN THE 1ST 12 VERSES. (AGAIN, NO WORKS)

eph 2: 4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses,MADE US ALIVE together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and RAISED US UP TOGETHER , and MADE US SIT TOGETHER IN HEAVENLY PLACES 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For BY GRACE YOU HAVE BEEN SAVED (A COMPLETED ACTION) THROUGH FAITH , (AS MANY AS HAVE RECIEVED) and that NOT OF YOURSELVES ; it IS THE GIFT OF GOD, 9 NOT OF WORKS LEST ANYONE SHOULD BOAST (NO WORKS)

rom 4: 3 For what does the Scripture say? “ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD AND HE ACOUNTED IT TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.” 4 Now TO HIM WHO WORKS, THE WAGES ARE NOT COUNTED AS GRACE BUT DEBT (Works cancels out grace. and makes it a wage) 5 But TO HIM WHO DOES NOT WORK but BELIEVES ON HIM WHO JUSTIFIES THE UNGOLDY , his HIS FAITH IS ACCOUNTED FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS (AGAIN NO WORKS. PERIOD)

rom 4: 16 Therefore IT IF OF FAITH THAT IT MAY BE ACCORDING TO GRACE , so that THE PROMISE MAY BE SURE TO ALL THE SEED not only to those who are of the law, but also TO THOSE WHO ARE OF THE FAITH OF ABRAHAM , who is the father of us all (AGAIN, NO WORKS, IT IS OF GRACE THROUGH FAITH)

Rom 4: 23 Now it was not written for his sake alone that it was imputed to him, 24 but ALSO FOR US, IT SHALL BE IMPUTED TO US WHO BELIEVE IN HIM WHO RAISED UP JESUS OUR LORD FROM THE DEAD , 25 who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was RAISED BECAUSE OF OUR JUSTIFICATION (AGAIN NO WORKS)

Rom 11: 6 And IF BY GRACE, THAN IT IS NO LONGER OF WORKS, ; otherwise GRACE IS NO LONGER GRACE.But IF IT IS OF WORKS, THEN IT IS NO LONGER OF GRACE. OTHERWISE WORK IS NO LONGER WORK (AS i HAVE SAID NUMEROUS TIME, GRACE + WORKS = WORKS.. GRACE AND WORKS CAN NOT MIX IN THE AREA OF SALVATION. ITS LIKE MIXING OIL AND WATER)

2 Tim 1: 9 who HAS SAVED US (A COMPLETED ACTION) and called us with a holy calling, NOT ACCORDING TO OUR WORKS , but ACCORDING TO HIS OWN PURPOSE AND GRACE which was GIVEN TO US in Christ Jesus BEFORE TIME BEGAN (AGAIN, NO WORKS. BUT GRACE)

Titus 3: 4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS (GOOD DEEDS) WHICH WE HAVE DONE , but ACCORDING TO HIS MERCY HE SAVED USthrough the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that HAVING BEEN JUSTIFIED BY HIS GRACE we should become HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE
(AGAIN, NO QUESTION HERE. PAUL LEAVES NO QUESTION. NO GOOD DEED CAN SAVE US,. WE ARE SAVED BY GODS MERCY, AND GIVEN THE HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE. WHICH IS PROMISED BEFORE TIME BEGAN

Titus 1: 2 in HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE which GOD WHO CAN NOT LIE PROMISED BEFORE TIME BEGAN

this is what our faith is in, the grace and mercy of God. not our deeds.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Great post MatthewG!

Some Christians fight this all the way....
I've always wondered why.

If they don't believe in sinning.....why fear losing salvation?

Maybe it's just nice to feel secure WHILE one is sinning?
And being disobedient to God.

Having to debate the necessity of obedience to God is rather alarming.

We don;t fear losing salvation because God has not given us a spirit of fear. But a sound mind

we do not fear losing salvation because God is not a spirit of fear. But our ABBA father

we do not fear losing salvation, because we know we will never meet Gods standard. So have rested from our work of trying to meet this standard. And have learned to just follow him.

those who fears losing salvation fear because they do nto trust God. If they do not trust God. How can they be saved

 

[GodsGrace]

None of what you said conflicts with my observations.

Jesus spoke of those who left his group. They left us because they were not one of us.

Do some studying pandaflower.
Try to find out WHY they were "NOT OF US".
You'd have to study some church history - which will be rather dangerous for you.
You might just find out the truth.

There are nominal believers. Those who claim Jesus yet are not known by him.
Jesus doesn't lose those who were never in him.
Those ones are not proof we can lose our salvation. Because they were not in him,he did not know them,that means they were not saved by him.

He can't lose those whom he never had.

It seems you've neglected to read one of Jesus best teachings on loss of salvation.

Let's try again - if you dare.


John 15:1-2
1 "I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser.
2 "Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.


Try to read the above listening to what JESUS is saying.

Read verse 2:
Every branch IN ME that does not bear fruit....
God takes away.

panda....
the branch is IN JESUS...
the branch is saved.

The branch, if it does not bear fruit,
will be TAKEN AWAY....cut off...severed.


It is your prerogative NOT to listen to Jesus' teaching....
It is your prerogative NOT to obey Him....
It is your prerogative to misunderstand what HE is teaching.


And, there are MANY more such verses....
but I believe you find them uncomfortable and prefer to deny them.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Correct!
Security is conditional.

no its not

because its not based on our performance. Now matter how good we are. We will never be good enough. Even if I never sinned again the rest of my life. I will still not meet Gods standard. And will still end up in hell apart from Gods grace

It's conditional on following the teachings of Jesus.

Matthew 7:46
46 "Why do you call Me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say?

I would ask a person who claims they have faith and yet are hearers and not doers the same

But its not to me to question their salvation.

and I am not going to promote legalism, and self righteousness. Because someone might misunderstand and turn to licentiousness

the problem you and those like you fail to see. Is a licentious person is just as guilty as a legalist

both, in pride. Have failed to repent. And failed to trust God.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

As I've said, I gave scripture. You deny them. As you deny the whole of the gospel message itself.

When the scriptures printed in the Bible don't reach you, and you deny scriptures I've already posted, I'll leave you to your damnation.

She likes her hand picked verses taken out of context. Which cause a lot of scripture to contradict itself

those passages hers contradict. She does not want to look at. As you will soon see.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

No. I don't teach this.
The NT teaches this.

which means YOU TEACH THIS

at least you finally admitted it


Nothing else need said