In Defense of OSAS – Why "Once Saved, Always Saved" Is the Heart of the Gospel

[BeforeThereWas]

You said "Perhaps the better way to state what I said is that, even though quoting Jesus, misapplication is still a means for introducing error."

I said "I disagree. Jesus' is the Word of God. There are no mistakes in His perfect Will of the Father. You cannot disagree with one thing Jesus said. It is as solid as He is the Rock:".

You said "You are inventive to come up with things that I never said, so I am left wondering what other things you invent that not even Jesus said...

I then summarized everything I said in scripture. Jesus is the Word of God, Perfect Will of the Father, and Jesus is the Rock

John 1:1-3 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.

Romans 12:2 - And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.

Matthew 7:24-Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock: 25 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock.

Psalms 18:2 -
The Lord is my rock and my fortress and my deliverer;
My God, my [a]strength, in whom I will trust; -
My shield and the [b]horn of my salvation, my stronghold.

1 Corinthians 10:4 - and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ.

There you go again. I s1aid that you invented things that I never said, not the Bible.

BTW

 

[DJT_47]

My comment makes perfect sense and there was no contradiction. You just don't understand because you teach performance based works salvation. The phrase "sins that are past" refers to sins that were committed before the sacrifice of Jesus, particularly of Old Testament believers. In God's forbearance, He did not immediately punish those sins but instead, passed over them, holding back His wrath. This was temporary as God's justice would ultimately be satisfied through Jesus' sacrificial death on the cross. Try not to over think this.

Sure, got it. Goodbye

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Past as in sins previously committed before Jesus’ crucifixion. Again, this does not mean that Jesus' death was only for past sins or that only our past sins are cleansed by the blood of Christ and something further is needed.

Sins for given ?
They can only be forgiven, if you know and have acknowleged your own Sins.
Once one understands the offence, then one starts to grow ! one may not of mastered such a thing that you are weak in dealing with such ? and you find yourself failed once again ! but as one matures you may master such dealings and not fall for the majority of their temptations.
The peer group pressures ? or immature wants.

Some of the biggest bastards have became Saints, because they had a handle on such ! and could talk to many others on their level, so as to come across to them, in a frutful way for them to more clearly see, where they were at ?

I came to understand where a mate was at ? but it took me me years to work out just how depraved he truly was, I never thought on that level of depravity ? and then the penny droped, I could understand where all such people are truly at !
It was like, Oh this is what drives them ! that's why they are as such ! Under a Curse ! that's why they do as they do !

 

[Muna]

Matthew 7:24-Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock: 25 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock.

And you know, if you rehilight that verse this way

Matthew 7:24 Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock: 25 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock.

Being founded on the rock includes more than just the hearing of his words but the doing of them there

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Sins for given ?
They can only be forgiven, if you know and have acknowleged your own Sins.

so you know every sin you ever commited?

Once one understands the offence, then one starts to grow ! one may not of mastered such a thing that you are weak in dealing with such ? and you find yourself failed once again ! but as one matures you may master such dealings and not fall for the majority of their temptations.
The peer group pressures ? or immature wants.

Some of the biggest bastards have became Saints, because they had a handle on such ! and could talk to many others on their level, so as to come across to them, in a frutful way for them to more clearly see, where they were at ?

I came to understand where a mate was at ? but it took me me years to work out just how depraved he truly was, I never thought on that level of depravity ? and then the penny droped, I could understand where all such people are truly at !
It was like, Oh this is what drives them ! that's why they are as such ! Under a Curse ! that's why they do as they do !

so God changed them, because they were actually saved?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

And you know, if you rehilight that verse this way

Matthew 7:24 Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock: 25 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock.

Being founded on the rock includes more than just the hearing of his words but the doing of them there

what the first thing we must do?

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

this does not mean that Jesus' death was only for past sins or that only our past sins are cleansed by the blood of Christ and something further is needed.

Going forward if we do not confess and forsake our sins (after getting born again), then we will be held guilty of those sins.

Sins are not automatically forgiven without us confessing and forsaking them.

Proverbs 28:13
He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Hebrews 10:28-31
He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

 

[mailmandan]

Going forward if we do not confess and forsake our sins (after getting born again), then we will be held guilty of those sins.

Sins are not automatically forgiven without us confessing and forsaking them.

Proverbs 28:13
He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Hebrews 10:28-31
He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

If forsaking our sins means sinless perfection, then 1 John 1:8-10 is superfluous. Proverbs 28:13 is an exhortation for believers to confess and forsake their sins, acknowledging their need for God's grace and mercy in their struggle against sin, rather than promoting the idea they can and must achieve sinless perfection in this life.

Notice that - "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness" (1 John 1:9) is in contrast to - If we say that we have no sin, (present tense) we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us (1 John 1:8) and - If we say that we have not sinned, (past tense) we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. (1 John 1:10)

Certain folks seem to misunderstand verse 9 to mean that we "must confess each and every sin that we commit as we commit them" (keep a specific inventory of every sin) as an "additional requirement" to "remain cleansed" and "if we forget a sin, we are toast!" Who could actually write an exhaustive list of every sin they have ever committed or ever will commit? Sin is not only missing the mark by what we do but also what we fail to do. (James 4:17)

Believers "confess" (Greek - homologeó) speak the same/acknowledge/agree with God's perspective about their sins and have a settled recognition and ongoing acknowledgment that one is a sinner in need of cleansing and forgiveness in contrast with saying that we have no sin or that we have not sinned. (1 John 1:8-10)

In regard to Hebrews 10:26, to "sin willfully" in the Greek carries the idea of deliberate intention that is habitual, which stems from rejecting Christ deliberately. This is continuous action, a matter of practice. Now we don't walk along our daily life and "accidentally" fall into a pit called sin. We exercise our will but, the use of the participle clearly shows a ongoing, willful, habitual action. The unrighteous practice sin (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-21); not the righteous, who are born of God (1 Corinthians 6:11; 1 John 3:9). *Hermeneutics.

If the word 'sanctified' in Hebrews 10:29 is used to describe saved people who lost their salvation as eternal IN-securists teach, then we have a contradiction because the writer of Hebrews in verse 10 said "sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all" (Hebrews 10:10) and in verse 14, we read, "perfected for all time those who are sanctified." (Hebrews 10:14) So, in Hebrews 10:10, we clearly read ..WE have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. In Hebrews 10:14, we read - For by one offering He has perfected for all time THOSE who are sanctified. To go from sanctified back to un-sanctified would be in contradiction here.

*NOWHERE in the context does it specifically say the person who "trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant" was "saved" and/or "lost their salvation." The reference to "the blood of the covenant that sanctified him" in verse 29 "on the surface" appears to be referring to a Christian, but this overlooks the fact that the word translated "sanctified" (which is the verb form of the adjective "holy") which means "set apart," and doesn't necessarily refer to salvation.

Strong's Concordance
hagiazó: to make holy, consecrate, sanctify
Original Word: ἁγιάζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: hagiazó
Phonetic Spelling: (hag-ee-ad'-zo)
Definition: to make holy, consecrate, sanctify
Usage: I make holy, treat as holy, set apart as holy, sanctify, hallow, purify.

*In 1 Corinthians 7:14, Paul uses it to specifically refer to non-Christians who are "sanctified" or "set apart" by their believing spouse. (And by this Paul does not mean that they are saved). A non-Christian can be "set apart" from other non-Christians without experiencing salvation as Paul explained. So the word "sanctified" means to be "set apart." If the word "sanctified" simply meant saved, then you would have to say that the seventh day was saved (Genesis 2:3), the tabernacle was saved (Exodus 29:43), Moses saved the people after coming down off the mountain (Exodus 19:14), the priests and the Levites saved themselves (1 Chronicles 15:14), the Father saved the Son (John 10:36), the Son saved Himself (John 17:19) and many other things that do not line up with scripture.

In verse 39, the writer of Hebrews sets up the CONTRAST that makes it clear to me that he was referring to make believers/nominal Christians, not saved people: But WE are not of those who draw back to perdition, but OF THOSE who believe to the saving of the soul. Those who draw back to perdition do not believe to the saving of the soul and those who believe to the saving of the soul do not draw back to perdition.

So after considering the CONTEXT, it seems most likely that "he was sanctified" should be understood in the sense of someone who had been "set apart" or identified as a professing believer in the Hebrew community of believers, but later renounces his identification with other believers, by rejecting the "knowledge of the truth" that he had received, and trampling under foot the work and the person of Christ himself. This gives evidence that his identification with the Hebrew community of believers was only superficial and that he was not a genuine believer.

 

[Muna]

what the first thing we must do?

Concerning what part of the verse?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Concerning what part of the verse?

The saying of Jesus

what is the first thing he tells us to do?

 

[Muna]

The saying of Jesus

what is the first thing he tells us to do?

Are you having difficulty reading the verse?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Are you having difficulty reading the verse?

No

He said those who do the works

which work would come first.

are you having a hard time understanding my question?

 

[Muna]

No

He said those who do the works

which work would come first.

are you having a hard time understanding my question?

What are you even talking about? I simply rehighlighted an already posted verse and that has somehow triggered you to respond to me about questions concerning the verse.

Lets look at the entire thing,

Luke 6:47 Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:

Luke 6:48 He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.

Luke 6:49 But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell;
and the ruin of that house was great.

What is your question to me that the verses cannot answer for you that you need to contend with me over a verse of scripture?

Edit typo

 

[Eternally Grateful]

What are you even talking about? I simply rehighlighted an already posted verse and that has somehow triggered you to respond to me about questions concerning the verse.

Lets look at the entire thing,

Luke 6:47 Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:

Luke 6:48 He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.

Luke 6:49 But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell;
and the ruin of that house was great.

What is your question to me that the verses cannot answer for you that you need to contend with me over a verse of scripture?

Edit typo

Are you really confused

You said being found on the rock is more that just hearing the words but doing

What is the first thing we must do. I e. What gets us on the rock to begin with

 

[Muna]

Are you really confused

You said being found on the rock is more that just hearing the words but doing

What is the first thing we must do. I e. What gets us on the rock to begin with

What did I say? Can you please quote my words?

 

[Behold]

In the verses below you will find this word......"noone"........and you will find....."never perish."

So, if you read the verses, understand that the "noone" includes the person. In other words.......not even the person can "pluck themselves from Jesus's hand".......and remember that "Eternal Life"......is not temporary, and Salvation, is Eternal life..
-
New International Version
I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

New Living Translation
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one can snatch them away from me,

English Standard Version
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.

Berean Standard Bible
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one can snatch them out of My hand.

Berean Literal Bible
And I give them eternal life, and never shall they perish to the age, and never will anyone seize them out of My hand.

King James Bible
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

New King James Version
And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.

New American Standard Bible
and I give them eternal life, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.

NASB 1995
and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.

NASB 1977
and I give eternal life to them, and they shall never perish; and no one shall snatch them out of My hand.

Legacy Standard Bible
and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish—ever; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.

Amplified Bible
And I give them eternal life, and they will never, ever [by any means] perish; and no one will ever snatch them out of My hand.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

What did I say? Can you please quote my words?

And you know, if you rehilight that verse this way

Matthew 7:24 Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock: 25 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock.

Being founded on the rock includes more than just the hearing of his words but the doing of them there

Again what gets us on the rock. What’s the first work

 

[Muna]

Again what gets us on the rock. What’s the first work

Those are not my words, those are Jesus words

And let me bring the picture back just one more verse


Luke 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

Luke 6:47 Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:

Luke 6:48 He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.

Luke 6:49 But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell;
and the ruin of that house was great.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Those are not my words, those are Jesus words

And let me bring the picture back just one more verse


Luke 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

Luke 6:47 Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:

Luke 6:48 He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.

Luke 6:49 But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell;
and the ruin of that house was great.

lol

So you do not know how to get saved

Got it

The Pharisee could quote scripture but they did not know it

It does no good to do works unless your saved

Your not part of the rock if your not adopted by the rock

Your works are filthy rags

If you want to offer that feel free

You can be like those who pumped their chest and tried to argue with Jesus about all their great works. And Jesus said depart from me

 

[Muna]

lol

So you do not know how to get saved

Got it

The Pharisee could quote scripture but they did not know it

It does no good to do works unless your saved

Your not part of the rock if your not adopted by the rock

Your works are filthy rags

If you want to offer that feel free

You can be like those who pumped their chest and tried to argue with Jesus about all their great works. And Jesus said depart from me

This is your response to Jesus words?