Is it possible to lose salvation?

[ProDeo]

James 2:26
26 For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

Wait.............

Did James really say that?

Lemme check, one moment please..........

He did

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Did James really say that?

Actually the Lord said that.

He just instructed James to write it down.

 

[Deleted member 26788]

How can you LOSE eternal life?
How can you LOSE the promise you will never perish
How can you LOSE the idea that you will never hunger or thirst. and be assured Gods promise he will raise you on the last day
How can you LOSE the fact you who were dead are made alive. Not by works of righteousness which you do. But By Gods Mercy
How do you Lose the seal of the spirit. Gods seal placed upon you until the day of redemption (resurrections day)
How can you Lose the fact you have been adopted into Gods family. does he just kick you out on the streets and say do not come back?

more importantly., The wage of sin is death, How can you add any work, or works to make up for one sin. And finally Gods requirement is perfection. If you can not meet Gods standard at any time. How can you fall back below it to lose salvation.

how ? its not that difficult. take Judas for example. he is tost . Matthew 26:24
The Son of Man is to go, just as it is written of Him; but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been good for that man if he had not been born.”

 

[nedsk]

Correct.
Faith, without works, is a dead faith.
Seems simple enough...

James 2:26
26 For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

you would think so

 

[nedsk]

No

I was saved ( a completed action) By grace through faith not of works. so I can not boast.

Works can PROVE salvation (see James 2) but we are not saved by works

if we could be saved by works. why did God come to earth and die

why did he say it is finished (literally paid in full)

The author of hebrews helps

it is by one offering we were perfected forever (saved completely) who are we? those who are being sanctified (here is where works completes or matures. or grows a child of God. to make them more like Christ.)

but we must remember, Gods requirement is perfection. Since we will never be perfect here on earth (sinless) we will never be completely sanctified. so our works can still never complete our salvation (if they were required)

it will be when we are glorified that we are finally fully sanctified.

again, Salvation is based on the Abraham covenant, and it is a non conditional covenant, even our faith is called a work of God.

Where did I say we saved by works? You people hear "works" and the bile comes flying and your heads spin around. Copy and paste where I said works saves. Do you understand what "sufficient" means? Why does your faith need to be "PROVED" if faith is sufficient? You think God doesnt know your faith until you PROVE it through works? LMBO

 

[pandaflower]

trying to convince people who trust in the promises of God. yes. it is hopeless

when you have a God who has shown you the truth of your plight of eternity (death) who shows you the total inability of you being able to save yourself. and shows you that he and only he can save you. and he did it by dying on a cross. And put in faith receive that gift.

It is impossible to lose that faith. Thats why John said they were never of us.. You do not stop believe something like this

now trusting God in areas of our life. this is easy to do.. thats what growing in christ is, learning to trust God in everything

But our eternity does not depend on us trusting him in every area of our life. if it did. no one would be saved

anti OSAS passage?

what passage denies the eternity of the gospel and our salvation?


You can never have any security if you think salvation can be lost. You can think you can, but your fooling yourself.

The ad ersary is always at it. Trying to bring doubt I to the minds of the faithful. Working to make darkness overcast light.


Remember Jesus during his fast?
The enemy appeared then too.

If you be the son of God ...prove it to one who doubts.

Of course Jesus,God,could meet any of Satan's challenges. But why?

Would proof change the nature of that obstinate fallen angel?

No.

 

[nedsk]

The ad ersary is always at it. Trying to bring doubt I to the minds of the faithful. Working to make darkness overcast light.


Remember Jesus during his fast?
The enemy appeared then too.

If you be the son of God ...prove it to one who doubts.

Of course Jesus,God,could meet any of Satan's challenges. But why?

Would proof change the nature of that obstinate fallen angel?

No.

You think Luther was right dont you? LOL

Protestants are the most duped "believers" on the planet. You're the by-product of the most heretical person in history

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes

so if you claim to have faith, but if your a hearer only and not a doer. can faith save you? No

James said if I claim to have faith and do not even have one work.. I believe you and I and everyone who calls themselves a believer would admit, that person is not saved.

James did not speak of anyone CLAIMING to have faith.

He said that faith without works is dead.

James 2:26
26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead.

Also, some could have NO WORKS ands still be saved after being born again.
Some persons cannot do good works as we understand them.
But God knows that in their heart they are good and WOULD do good works if they could.

But James did NOT say works are required. he would contradict paul in romans 4.

Rom 4:
4 What then shall we say that Abraham our father[a] has found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.

5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,

6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:

7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered;
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.”

Then we're going to have to reconcile James 2:26 with Paul Romans 4:4-8

James said that faith without works is dead.
This means that faith without works is useless....
Just as James states in
James 2:15-16
15 If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food,
16 and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, be warmed and be filled," and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that?


He also said that faith works with works to make that faith complete...perfect.

James 2:20-22
20 But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar?
22 You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected;

Abraham ALWAYS obeyed God.
He left his home when God told Him too.
We don't have to wait for Isaac to understand that Abraham was always obedient to God.


Paul also warned that we are to do good.
There is no conflict.

Romans 2:5-8
5 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,
6 who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS:
7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life;
8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation.


Romans 4:
Paul states that we are made righteous before God BY FAITH...NOT because of our works.
Only God's grace can save us.

James states that our faith must produce works AFTER salvation...otherwise what are we saved for if not to further the Kingdom of God and be His hands on earth??
Faith, without works, is dead.
It is useless.....of no use to anyone.

God did not save us so as to be of no use to anyone.

Paul is teaching us HOW to become saved.
James is teaching us WHAT to do after we are saved.

No conflict.

Those who use James to try to insert works to grace. have james diametrically apposed to paul in romans 4.

Not true.
See above.

 

[nedsk]

James did not speak of anyone CLAIMING to have faith.

He said that faith without works dead.

James 2:26
26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead.

Also, some could have NO WORKS ands still be saved after being born again.
Some persons cannot do good works as we understand them.
But God knows that in their heart they are good and WOULD do good works if they could.



Then we're going to have to reconcile James 2:26 with Paul Romans 4:4-8

James said that faith without works is dead.
This means that faith without works is useless....
Just as James states in
James 2:15-16
15 If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food,
16 and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, be warmed and be filled," and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that?


He also said that faith works with works to make that faith complete...perfect.

James 2:20-22
20 But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar?
22 You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected;

Abraham ALWAYS obeyed God.
He left his home when God told Him too.
We don't have to wait for Isaac to understand that Abraham was always obedient to God.


Paul also warned that we are to do good.
There is no conflict.

Romans 2:5-8
5 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,
6 who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS:
7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life;
8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation.


Romans 4:
Paul states that we are made righteous before God BY FAITH...NOT because of our works.
Only God's grace can save us.

James states that our faith must produce works AFTER salvation...otherwise what are we saved for if not to further the Kingdom of God and be His hands on earth??
Faith, without works, is dead.
It is useless.....of no use to anyone.

God did not save us so as to be of no use to anyone.

Paul is teaching us HOW to become saved.
James is teaching us WHAT to do after we are saved.

No conflict.



Not true.
See above.

This cracked me up

Eternally Grateful said:
Those who use James to try to insert works to grace. have james diametrically apposed to paul in romans 4.

It could easily be said

Those that use Paul to try and insist works have no place in salvation, have Paul diametrically opposed to James in James 2

 

[GodsGrace]

This cracked me up

Eternally Grateful said:
Those who use James to try to insert works to grace. have james diametrically apposed to paul in romans 4.

It could easily be said

Those that use Paul to try and insist works have no place in salvation, have Paul diametrically opposed to James in James 2

Yes sir !
Good catch.

 

[nedsk]

Yes sir !
Good catch.

What gets me is they actually think they have the authoritative understanding of scripture but with no evidence of that authority

 

[GodsGrace]

What gets me is they actually think they have the authoritative understanding of scripture but with no evidence of that authority

I feel the same.
I was taught what I post by 3 different denominations.
The warnings are plainly in sight in the NT.
Scripture is posted and it's twisted out of shape to make it mean what it does not....
Conflicts are created when theology is not correct....

 

[nedsk]

I feel the same.
I was taught what I post by 3 different denominations.
The warnings are plainly in sight in the NT.
Scripture is posted and it's twisted out of shape to make it mean what it does not....
Conflicts are created when theology is not correct....

I was talking with another poster here and referred to a quote Jesus made. We had a disagreement about what Jesus was saying but the other poster actually said, "... what Jesus actually meant was...' and of course it agreed with their point of view.

 

[GodsGrace]

I was talking with another poster here and referred to a quote Jesus made. We had a disagreement about what Jesus was saying but the other poster actually said, "... what Jesus actually meant was...' and of course it agreed with their point of view.

Yes. It gets discouraging at times.
I often say that Jesus was a good communicator and said what He meant.
But, somehow, He just must have messed up somehow!

It's not funny actually.
The young tend to look for churches that can teach them how to live as God would want
in an effort to push-back on all that is happening in the world....all the crazy ideas we have to hear and even live with.
Which denominations are left?
Maybe the Orthodox Church?
The CC also seems to be crumbling.
Some Protestant churches are failing.

 

[nedsk]

Yes. It gets discouraging at times.
I often say that Jesus was a good communicator and said what He meant.
But, somehow, He just must have messed up somehow!

It's not funny actually.
The young tend to look for churches that can teach them how to live as God would want
in an effort to push-back on all that is happening in the world....all the crazy ideas we have to hear and even live with.
Which denominations are left?
Maybe the Orthodox Church?
The CC also seems to be crumbling.
Some Protestant churches are failing.

I would say the catholic church is not crumbling but the wheat is being separated from the chaff. A smaller stronger church is arising. The church is coming out of the liberal "Jesus is love" era. The new priests are stronger and more traditional. The extraordinary form of the Mass is gaining a stronger foothold. A Latin Mass only church was just consecrated near where I live. The masses are packed.

 

[pandaflower]

You think Luther was right dont you? LOL

Protestants are the most duped "believers" on the planet. You're the by-product of the most heretical person in history

Not a Lutheran.

Go ahead. Try again to attack my faith affiliation as you imagine it and therein show me where your god dwells.

 

[nedsk]

Not a Lutheran.

Go ahead. Try again to attack my faith affiliation as you imagine it and therein show me where your god dwells.

Did i say you were a Lutheran? Show where I made such a statement.

Im not attacking your faith affiliation I am stating a fact. Nothing you believe was taught before the looney little monk, unless of course you can show me otherwise. The fact is there are 20,000+ christian denominations because of Luther. He is the reason you are where you are.

 

[pandaflower]

Did i say you were a Lutheran? Show where I made such a statement.

Im not attacking your faith affiliation I am stating a fact. Nothing you believe was taught before the looney little monk, unless of course you can show me otherwise. The fact is there are 20,000+ christian denominations because of Luther. He is the reason you are where you are.

You're not to be taken seriously.

The Bible calls you foolish.

 

[nedsk]

You're not to be taken seriously.

The Bible calls you foolish.

So you cant show where i said works saves anyone. A decent person would admitted that and moved on but your pride wont allow it. If i were you I wouldnt take me seriously either because im right.

I am a fool. For christ

 

[pandaflower]

It is amazing to me how many open unbelievers there are.

Jesus died to bring us eternal life and salvation in him. Before Jesus we were dead in our sins. Unable to recognize a world beyond this material flesh.

Until God called us to awaken to his truth. That there is more. And we can be reborn,washed clean,and live forever in his grace.

Glorious!

And yet,there is that spirit that calls it a lie . It isn't a free gift from God and his grace. No! You have to earn it
. Work! And be afraid you will do something to make it vanish away. Insecurity in Christ.

If you think about it,you've heard that refrain before. Read it before.

Genesis.
The serpent.

"Did God really say you'd die if you ate of the tree?"

" Did God really say salvation isn't of yourselves,it is a free eternal irrevocable gift by God's grace?"


Same snake,different era.