Is it possible to lose salvation?

[nedsk]

there you go. you just once again you save yourself by works.

No. the cross is sufficient to save us

Atonement is by the blood. not by my works.

again, Paul said if we work, we incur debt, not forgiveness..

You do not understand james at all.. and you continue to ignore paul and jesus

Did I write this?

22 Thus, you can see that his faith and his works were active together; his faith was brought to completion by works.

I have pity on people that struggle to read but I have no patience for people who refuse to read.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

If faith is all I need (sufficient) for salvation then how I behave is irrelevant just like you people say .

I am done with this reasoning

respond to pauls words.

resolve the conflict.

 

[nedsk]

Faith is completred. Not salvation.

We start with faith of a mustard seed. that saves. But our faith in God grows every day (or it should)

look what all abraham had to do to get to the point he offered his son. because God understood his promise.. was abraham this trustworthy in the begining?

of course not

a licentious person is one who claims they have faith. but lives like the world.. You know a hearer not a doer.

what did the people james spoke of do?

Yes faith is completed by works and faith is what saves just as you say. Glad we agree

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Did I write this?

22 Thus, you can see that his faith and his works were active together; his faith was brought to completion by works.

I have pity on people that struggle to read but I have no patience for people who refuse to read.

Show me the words his salvation was completed by works..

 

[nedsk]

I am done with this reasoning

respond to pauls words.

resolve the conflict.

There is no conflict. No where does Paul say alone. You infer it.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Yes faith is completed by works and faith is what saves just as you say. Glad we agree

my faith was not completed when I was saved. nor was yours.

last comment on this nonsense.

ames 2:
14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

Paul romans 4:

rom 4: 3 For what does the Scripture say? “ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD AND HE ACOUNTED IT TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.” 4 Now TO HIM WHO WORKS, THE WAGES ARE NOT COUNTED AS GRACE BUT DEBT (Works cancels out grace. and makes it a wage) 5 But TO HIM WHO DOES NOT WORK but BELIEVES ON HIM WHO JUSTIFIES THE UNGOLDY , his HIS FAITH IS ACCOUNTED FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS

romans 11
Rom 11: 6 And IF BY GRACE, THAN IT IS NO LONGER OF WORKS, ; otherwise GRACE IS NO LONGER GRACE.But IF IT IS OF WORKS, THEN IT IS NO LONGER OF GRACE. OTHERWISE WORK IS NO LONGER WORK

You must resolve this issue of contradiction.

Why are paul and james saying the total opposite of what the other said? Why are they in contradiction (or appear to be) resolve the conflict.

or continue to show who is really Obstinant (your word)

Resolve the conflict. or prove you can not

 

[Eternally Grateful]

There is no conflict. No where does Paul say alone. You infer it.

so no works does not mean no works..

got it

I would like to be there when you try to explain this to Jesus. although it will be a sad day

 

[nedsk]

Show me the words his salvation was completed by works..

I have 100 times. You say faith is all that needed for salvation. James says faith without works is dead. How can a dead faith be salvific?

 

[nedsk]

my faith was not completed when I was saved. nor was yours.

last comment on this nonsense.

ames 2:
14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

Paul romans 4:

rom 4: 3 For what does the Scripture say? “ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD AND HE ACOUNTED IT TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.” 4 Now TO HIM WHO WORKS, THE WAGES ARE NOT COUNTED AS GRACE BUT DEBT (Works cancels out grace. and makes it a wage) 5 But TO HIM WHO DOES NOT WORK but BELIEVES ON HIM WHO JUSTIFIES THE UNGOLDY , his HIS FAITH IS ACCOUNTED FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS

romans 11
Rom 11: 6 And IF BY GRACE, THAN IT IS NO LONGER OF WORKS, ; otherwise GRACE IS NO LONGER GRACE.But IF IT IS OF WORKS, THEN IT IS NO LONGER OF GRACE. OTHERWISE WORK IS NO LONGER WORK

You must resolve this issue of contradiction.

Why are paul and james saying the total opposite of what the other said? Why are they in contradiction (or appear to be) resolve the conflict.

or continue to show who is really Obstinant (your word)

Resolve the conflict. or prove you can not

There is no conflict because Paul never says faith alone. You're still inferring it

 

[Eternally Grateful]

There is no conflict because Paul never says faith alone. You're still inferring it

you have not resolved the conflict

Unless you can show me how NO WORKS, equals even 1 work

then by defenition. no works = faith alone

 

[GRACE ambassador]

and we should walk in them

Correct.....

And if we don't, are not obedient, we don't walk the walk, then what happens with our saved state?

We are cut off, right?

Are we out?

No, The LORD Jesus Christ Does Not "cut off" any of HIS "Body Parts [ members ]!":

All [ faithful And unfaithful ] "members of The Complete Body Of Christ" will be at

The Bema Judgment Seat Of Christ! = 1 Corinthians 3:8-15 AV ​

Those who DID NOT "do what they should" will be saved, yet have NO rewards (vs 12 and 15).

Amen.



More study: God's ALL-Sufficient BLOOD!

 

[pandaflower]

lol

people make me laugh

attack others. then sit there with a serious face they are not doing something they do every day..

and we should listen to you?

No,we shouldn't.

They're not here to bring faith and respect into our discussions.

They appear to be minor children. That one is not alone here.

They make assertions regarding the Bible. Then when their errors are corrected they claim the ones correcting them made the errant assertions.

That's childish play among adult Christians.
It is summer vacation for the public schools you know.

 

[pandaflower]

and we should walk in them

Correct.....

And if we don't, are not obedient, we don't walk the walk, then what happens with our saved state?

We are cut off, right?

Are we out?

No, we're not out.
If we are out then we're not in God's saving grace.

We are sealed by the holy spirit. There is no conditions attached.

Work if you feel led to feel insecure in Christ.

Fear every word you utter,every step you take,every thing you do,that it will erase your grace in God's salvation. Live that way as evidence your flesh and ego consumes itself with thoughts the perishable must labor to sttain the imperishable.

Live that news you manufacture on your image and likeness.

However,don't think you will find converts to your way of thinking here.

We follow Christ.
No matter how hard you work to obscure in your mind his truth, you fail.

You live with it.

 

[ProDeo]

who does not walk in it?

What does this mean?

And who saved us? If God saved us and we do not earn it, is that our fault or Gods?

who's reputation is on the line?

what happens is we become like prodigal children. but a child is still a child..

Efez 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
Efez 2:9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Efez 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

About verse 10, you asked -- What does this mean? --

Are you a baby in Christ? I think not.

Okay, let's do some basics then on WORKS | FRUITS walking the walk fortunately with to the help of the indwelling Holy Spirit.

Working on self : the DONT's

Gal 5:16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.
Gal 5:17 For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do.
Gal 5:18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality,
Gal 5:20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions,
Gal 5:21 envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

What are the main sins (traps) for Christians with reference to v19-21 ?

1. Sex, named first by Paul.
2. Watching porn.
3. Sexual fantasies -- Matt 5:28
4. Adultery.
5. Divorce and unbiblical remarriage.

We are created as sexual beings with a need, a big obstacle for many Christians, I know from experience. Make sure to overcome. And the Lord is patient, willing to forgive. Who never has sinned against [3] may speak. If you still do go to the throne of forgiveness.

v21 - that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Working on self : the DO's

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
Gal 5:23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
Gal 5:25 If we live by the Spirit, let us also keep in step with the Spirit.

Those are also WORKS and FRUITS, how to develop the fruits ?

Rom 8:12 So then, brothers, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh.
Rom 8:13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

How much fruits ?

Matt 13:23 As for what was sown on good soil, this is the one who hears the word and understands it. He indeed bears fruit and yields, in one case a hundredfold, in another sixty, and in another thirty.”

But fruits there shall be, in fact the proof of a reborn is a changed life.

and we should walk in them

Correct.....

And if we don't, are not obedient, we don't walk the walk, then what happens with our saved state?

We are cut off, right?

Are we out?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

No,we shouldn't.

They're not here to bring faith and respect into our discussions.

They appear to be minor children. That one is not alone here.

They make assertions regarding the Bible. Then when their errors are corrected they claim the ones correcting them made the errant assertions.

That's childish play among adult Christians.
It is summer vacation for the public schools you know.

they did the same to Jesus and the apostles

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Efez 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
Efez 2:9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Efez 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

About verse 10, you asked -- What does this mean? --

No I did not ask you what it means, I know what it means

We have been saved, a completed action. as a result of grace. it was recieved in faith. not of works.

for we (those saved by grace) are his workmanship created anew in christ for good works..

its simple logic.

Are you a baby in Christ? I think not.

Okay, let's do some basics then on WORKS | FRUITS walking the walk fortunately with to the help of the indwelling Holy Spirit.

Working on self : the DONT's

Gal 5:16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.
Gal 5:17 For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do.
Gal 5:18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality,
Gal 5:20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions,
Gal 5:21 envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

What are the main sins (traps) for Christians with reference to v19-21 ?

1. Sex, named first by Paul.
2. Watching porn.
3. Sexual fantasies -- Matt 5:28
4. Adultery.
5. Divorce and unbiblical remarriage.

We are created as sexual beings with a need, a big obstacle for many Christians, I know from experience. Make sure to overcome. And the Lord is patient, willing to forgive. Who never has sinned against [3] may speak. If you still do go to the throne of forgiveness.

v21 - that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Working on self : the DO's

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
Gal 5:23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
Gal 5:25 If we live by the Spirit, let us also keep in step with the Spirit.

Those are also WORKS and FRUITS, how to develop the fruits ?

Rom 8:12 So then, brothers, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh.
Rom 8:13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

How much fruits ?

Matt 13:23 As for what was sown on good soil, this is the one who hears the word and understands it. He indeed bears fruit and yields, in one case a hundredfold, in another sixty, and in another thirty.”

But fruits there shall be, in fact the proof of a reborn is a changed life.

If your working to earn or keep your salvation.

Then your not doing works of righteousness, your doing self righteous works.

Your not working out of faith in christ or to serve God or others

But to serve self.

 

[Behold]

Silliness. What other people see is utterly irrelevant. If faith alone was sufficient there is no reason for James to write, faith is completed by works and that a man is saved by works AND not by "faith alone". You people just ignore what you dont like.

Jesus completed all the "works" on The Cross.

The works that James speaks about.......notice..... "I'll show YOU my faith, by my works'.

See that?
That is how you understand what James is teaching..........He said......."I will show YOU.. my works".

So, James means that the Christians are to "bear fruit" as a witness before others........not before God......and when this is not happening, then their faith is not being proven before others.

Look again.

"I will show YOU.......my faith..........by my works"..

That is the context of "works".........that James is describing.

Whereas a Christian is "justified by Faith", alone... before GOD... ....= no works.......no commandment keeping......no water baptism.
This is because we are justified completely and forever, by Jesus's CROSS, that is His Sacrifice of HIMSELF To God for us all.

 

[pandaflower]

they did the same to Jesus and the apostles

True. Jesus warned this would happen .

 

[GodsGrace]

OSAS.......is a cunning Jewish Religious Leadership deception, that is 2000 yrs old... whereby they redefine God's Grace, as : "licentiousness".
In other words.......they created this mind blindng demonic teaching that causes a person to perceive "God's Grace" as...>>"you can live in sin".. . so that keeps them from understanding God's Grace correclty.
Thats the Goal of the "OSAS" Lie.

That is the actual definiation of OSAS,.........and who created it.

If you had deeply studied Paul's Teachings, and the little book by JUDE........you would have read that JUDE is the Apostle who gives the revelation regarding what OSAS means.
He talks about those jewish deceivers who came into the early church and twisted God's Grace, so that weak believers...who are self righteous, will become deceived by their teaching.



The reason you post innuendo , wiith no quotes is because , You're carnal, and you just want to go from forum to forum ranting your little obsession with..... "i can lose my salvation, and so can you".
This is your entire reason to be on a forum. Its to find a OSAS Type Thread, and live on it.
You're on one now.... @GodsGrace ,
You should consider getting a better ministry, as that one is not of God.

We'll let God be the judge of HIS truth.

 

[Marymog]

my faith was not completed when I was saved. nor was yours.

last comment on this nonsense.

ames 2:
14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

Paul romans 4:

rom 4: 3 For what does the Scripture say? “ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD AND HE ACOUNTED IT TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.” 4 Now TO HIM WHO WORKS, THE WAGES ARE NOT COUNTED AS GRACE BUT DEBT (Works cancels out grace. and makes it a wage) 5 But TO HIM WHO DOES NOT WORK but BELIEVES ON HIM WHO JUSTIFIES THE UNGOLDY , his HIS FAITH IS ACCOUNTED FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS

romans 11
Rom 11: 6 And IF BY GRACE, THAN IT IS NO LONGER OF WORKS, ; otherwise GRACE IS NO LONGER GRACE.But IF IT IS OF WORKS, THEN IT IS NO LONGER OF GRACE. OTHERWISE WORK IS NO LONGER WORK

You must resolve this issue of contradiction.

Why are paul and james saying the total opposite of what the other said? Why are they in contradiction (or appear to be) resolve the conflict.

or continue to show who is really Obstinant (your word)

Resolve the conflict. or prove you can not

Hey EG! There is no conflict and @nedsk is right on this one.

Paul wrote we are “justified by faith apart from works of law?” When he wrote this was writing to a church in Rome struggling with a very prominent first-century heretical sect known today as the “Judaizers.” These heretics taught that belief in Christ and obedience to the New Covenant was not enough to be saved. A man also had to keep the Mosaic Law (which, according to Hebrews 7:11-12, has been superseded in Christ) and be circumcised in order to be saved (cf. Acts 15:1-2). Paul gave us one clue—among many—that he had this sect in mind when he wrote in Romans 2:28-29, “For he is not a real Jew who is one outwardly, nor is true circumcision something external and physical. He is a Jew who is one inwardly, and real circumcision is a matter of the heart, spiritual and not literal . . . ” Paul told us in Colossians 2:11-12 that this true “circumcision of Christ” is baptism. It is in this context that Paul says we are “justified by faith apart from works of law.” He did not in any sense say that works are unnecessary. He specified works of law because these were the works without which the Judaizers were claiming one “cannot be saved.”

As Scripture says, faith, without works, is dead and you can lose your salvation if you don't do the works. This FACT is made clear in Matthew 25:31-46! ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’ ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’

And this bit in Romans: 5 But by your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath, when God’s righteous judgement will be revealed. 6 For he will repay according to each one’s deeds: 7 to those who by patiently doing good seek for glory and honour and immortality, he will give eternal life; 8 while for those who are self-seeking and who obey not the truth but wickedness, there will be wrath and fury. 9 There will be anguish and distress for everyone who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, 10 but glory and honour and peace for everyone who does good,

The only conflict is in your improper interpretation of Scripture and your cherry-picking of Scripture to fit what you already believe.

God bless.....Mary