No one? No, not so much as one
- Thread starter Matthias
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And? We all fall short of the glory of God, even those who profess to be Christian. God still loves us and wants us to be with him but it's not as simple as saying I want it or I believe it.
What is Paul talking about? The world contained people in his day who had sought, and were seeking, God. There are billions of people who have sought, and are seeking, God in our day.
I’m just asking what Paul is talking about.
If I were to ask you: “Have you sought God?” - would you say that you haven’t?
If I were to ask you: “Do you know anyone who has sought God?” - would you say that you don’t?
If I were to ask you: “Do you know anyone who is seeking God?” - would you say that no one is?
I thought about starting this thread in the Christian Newbies forum but I decided it might be too tough for someone who is just starting out and that it might discourage them or cause them to doubt.
I told you what he's talking about, we may seek God but we fall short. We have to constantly be in pursuit of God thats why once saved always saved is dangerous doctrine.
Thanks. I appreciate your comments but I think there’s more in addition to that.
Lambano
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- Jul 13, 2021
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The stated purpose of Romans Chapter 3 (see verses 1 and 9) is to show God's people (his target audience for this section would be the Jewish Christians in Rome), using their own scriptures, that they have no advantage over their Gentile brethren before God. Despite having possession of those scriptures, which show that they too fall short of the glory of God.
Whether some do seek God (which is likely a calculated hyperbole by the Psalmist and by Solomon in the Ecclesiastes quote) is irrelevant to that argument.
Say what?
Whether some do seek God (which is likely a calculated hyperbole by the Psalmist and by Solomon in the Ecclesiastes quote) is irrelevant to that argument.
Say what?
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Paul, as I’m sure you know, is quoting a passage from the Hebrew Bible. Going back to the passage for context provides us with some useful information.
But hes writing to a different audience. Its never as complicated as you people make it out to be.
He is writing to a different audience. Same lesson, different crowd. Or wider application, if you prefer.
You people?
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Yes you people. You read the words but you always think they mean something else.
pandaflower
Well-Known Member
Not that I ever heard Origen laugh, but he’d be falling all over the place if he could hear you saying that about me.
Show me something Origen wrote that agrees with any of the drivel you people believe. I'll wait here
Wick Stick
Well-Known Member
And David's.
See Psalm 53
2 God looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were [any] that did understand, that did seek God. 3 Every one of them is gone back: they are altogether become filthy; [there is] none that doeth good, no, not one.
I started this thread because of something I‘m reading and thinking about.
”God created humankind as naturally, inherently, and incurably religious. It is our nature, made in the image of God, to seek him. … All persons know God precognitively, and most acknowledge him cognitively as well. …
If God created us to seek him and expects us to do so, what can Paul mean when he says that ‘there is no one … who seeks God’ (Ro 3:11, citing Ps 14:53)? That does not sound like Paul believes humans are religious beings naturally seeking God. Is this a contradiction? I think not. First, Paul cannot be denying that millions of Jews and Christians (to mention no others) have sought and found God in the course of human history. The Old Testament gives many examples of them. Today there are millions of believers who have sought God and found him. Paul must be saying something a little different. Second, Paul is surely not denying a large number of verses which invite us to seek God and promises to reward those who do. Isaiah says, ‘Seek the Lord while he may be found; call on him while he is near’ (55:6). Jeremiah prophecies, ‘You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart’ (29:13). Hebrews states, ‘God … rewards those who earnestly seek him’ (11:6). Again, Paul must be meaning something a little different. The solution is found when we recognize that Paul in Romans 3:11 is referring to the fool described in Psalms 14 and 53, the text he cites. Paul is saying that sinners left entirely on their own without the prevenient grace of God do not naturally seek him. Those who seek God do so because of a divine work within them, not because they are free of the tendency of sinners to deny God. Apart from divine grace sinners do not have the inclination to seek God, but under the influence of prevenient grace they may choose to do so. Calvinists use the idea of common grace to account for goodness and justice in sinners, while Wesleyans prefer to speak of prevenient grace. Either way, it means that the grace of God mitigates the effects of sin in human life and preserves the creature from self-destruction.”
(Clark H. Pinnock, A Wideness in God’s Mercy: The Finality of Jesus Christ in a World of Religions, pp. 102,103)
Bold is mine - and that bolded statement made by Pinnock is what caused me to bring this thread into being.
”God created humankind as naturally, inherently, and incurably religious. It is our nature, made in the image of God, to seek him. … All persons know God precognitively, and most acknowledge him cognitively as well. …
If God created us to seek him and expects us to do so, what can Paul mean when he says that ‘there is no one … who seeks God’ (Ro 3:11, citing Ps 14:53)? That does not sound like Paul believes humans are religious beings naturally seeking God. Is this a contradiction? I think not. First, Paul cannot be denying that millions of Jews and Christians (to mention no others) have sought and found God in the course of human history. The Old Testament gives many examples of them. Today there are millions of believers who have sought God and found him. Paul must be saying something a little different. Second, Paul is surely not denying a large number of verses which invite us to seek God and promises to reward those who do. Isaiah says, ‘Seek the Lord while he may be found; call on him while he is near’ (55:6). Jeremiah prophecies, ‘You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart’ (29:13). Hebrews states, ‘God … rewards those who earnestly seek him’ (11:6). Again, Paul must be meaning something a little different. The solution is found when we recognize that Paul in Romans 3:11 is referring to the fool described in Psalms 14 and 53, the text he cites. Paul is saying that sinners left entirely on their own without the prevenient grace of God do not naturally seek him. Those who seek God do so because of a divine work within them, not because they are free of the tendency of sinners to deny God. Apart from divine grace sinners do not have the inclination to seek God, but under the influence of prevenient grace they may choose to do so. Calvinists use the idea of common grace to account for goodness and justice in sinners, while Wesleyans prefer to speak of prevenient grace. Either way, it means that the grace of God mitigates the effects of sin in human life and preserves the creature from self-destruction.”
(Clark H. Pinnock, A Wideness in God’s Mercy: The Finality of Jesus Christ in a World of Religions, pp. 102,103)
Bold is mine - and that bolded statement made by Pinnock is what caused me to bring this thread into being.
Wick Stick
Well-Known Member
What is the beginning of all things except our Lord and Saviour of all? Jesus Christ the firstborn of every creature.
-Origen, from Homily 1, commenting on Genesis 1:1
Pretty sure most of us agree with that.
You could make the question a little harder. Would you like to hear Origen on universalism? We hear that "drivel" here with some regularity.