pandaflower
Well-Known Member
Then stop playing as if it is one. If you want honest debate don't excise part of my reply and then scrutinize falsely what you chose to intentionally misrepresent of my opinion by resorting to such tactics.
Is it possible to lose salvation?
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If faith was sufficient it woulnt need completion like James says.
If faith was sufficient is sufficient it doesnt need to be proved or shown. God doesnt know it you have fait that you have to rove it to him or show him your faith? You make absolutely no sense whatsoever.
And what good is it to prove or show someone elese you have faith if faith was sufficient? You cant just say stuff it has to actually make some sense
BreadOfLife
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Key word there is “Apart”. That’s what I said before . . .
I know plenty of non-believers and outright atheists who would give you the shirt off their backs. Unfortunately, that means nothing without God because those are THEIR works – NOT the works HE prepared in advance as an element of Faith.
Faith is NOT a 1-legged stool . . .
pandaflower
Well-Known Member
Maybe it will help to note,those who insist we can lose our salvation are Roman Catholic.
Their church teaches mortal sin can cost salvation. But,salvation can be regained through repentance.
Something Jesus never said .
Their church teaches mortal sin can cost salvation. But,salvation can be regained through repentance.
Something Jesus never said .
And maybe it will be helpful to note those who insist we cant lose out salvation are protestants, meaning NOTHING they believe was taught before the 1500s
Jesus didnt but scripture does. Jesus also never said sola scriptura or sola fide.
Fact is you're the by product of a heretic
5 false statements | accusations in one sentence, how Christian of you.
Tell you something, one more post of such and I will report you.
pandaflower
Well-Known Member
Projection.
Implying I'm not Christian there may backfire on you.
Especially if they read your post first.
Bye.
Marymog
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(cherry picking) Ronald,
You and your unbiblical teaching concerns me. You do know that sins such as murder, stealing, having other Gods before thee, adultery etc (you know, those pesky 10 commandments) are sins? He did NOT take away from you and laid to His account (whatever that means in your bizarre world) all your sins. You do realize that kiddo....don't you?
You do know that committing sin (violation of the 10 commandments) does send you to hell?..........Your Protestant men have lied to you, and I feel bad that you drank their Kool aide if you don't believe that "sin does not send anyone to hell" (your antibiblical words, not mine).
Let me help you out: Writings Of The Apostolic Fathers - ✟ Christian Writings ✟ Stop listenig to your Protestant men and start listening to men who lived closest to the times of the Apostles. You will learn A LOT........
Read their writings instead of the writings of your Protestant men from the fifteen hundreds. Then get back with me. Until then....I don't want to hear from you again.
Keeping it real with the truth and biblical facts instead of lies from the men of the Reformation...........Mary
Marymog
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Yup, throw out anything else written in Scripture and you are right. Congratulations Ronald!!! Woot woot!
You are the winner of the coveted 2 Peter 3:16 award given out weekly by Marymog.We are saved by grace through faith and not works............the rest of Scripture be damned by Ronald Nolette because it doesn't fit what his Protestant liars have taught him.
good job Ronald
Another false accusation, I never said that, nor implied that.
Judas 1:17 But you must remember, beloved, the predictions of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Judas 1:18 They said to you, “In the last time there will be scoffers, following their own ungodly passions.”
Judas 1:19 It is these who cause divisions, worldly people, devoid of the Spirit.
For the record, that's not about you or GG, the below is.
Judas 1:20 But you, beloved, building yourselves up in your most holy faith and praying in the Holy Spirit,
Judas 1:21 keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ that leads to eternal life.
Judas 1:22 And have mercy on those who doubt;
Judas 1:23 save others by snatching them out of the fire; to others show mercy with fear, hating even the garment stained by the flesh.
Judas 1:24 Now to him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you blameless before the presence of his glory with great joy,
Judas 1:25 to the only God, our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion, and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen.
That's where my faith is, trusting the Lord He will keep me from falling.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
or spoken to a church who had believers and non believers who were in attendance, and like any good church, we need to warn the non believers who had not made a decision yet.
also. look what he said next. And such were some of you. But you have been WASHED, SANCTIFIED, and JUSTIFIED (he said they were saved in spite of these sins. and he never said they stopped. In fact the letter was written to many who still struggled with those sins.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Yes.
Who are we?
those who HAVE BEEN SAVED (a completed action) By Grace through faith. Not of works.
those who are saved will work.. we should walk in them. But these works do not keep us saved..
Nope
they are not equal
eph 2:
eph 2: 4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses,MADE US ALIVE together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and RAISED US UP TOGETHER , and MADE US SIT TOGETHER IN HEAVENLY PLACES 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For BY GRACE YOU HAVE BEEN SAVED (A COMPLETED ACTION) THROUGH FAITH , (AS MANY AS HAVE RECIEVED) and that NOT OF YOURSELVES ; it IS THE GIFT OF GOD, 9 NOT OF WORKS LEST ANYONE SHOULD BOAST (NO WORKS)
rom 4: 3 For what does the Scripture say? “ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD AND HE ACOUNTED IT TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.” 4 Now TO HIM WHO WORKS, THE WAGES ARE NOT COUNTED AS GRACE BUT DEBT (Works cancels out grace. and makes it a wage) 5 But TO HIM WHO DOES NOT WORK but BELIEVES ON HIM WHO JUSTIFIES THE UNGOLDY , his HIS FAITH IS ACCOUNTED FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS (AGAIN NO WORKS. PERIOD)
rom 4: 16 Therefore IT IF OF FAITH THAT IT MAY BE ACCORDING TO GRACE , so that THE PROMISE MAY BE SURE TO ALL THE SEED not only to those who are of the law, but also TO THOSE WHO ARE OF THE FAITH OF ABRAHAM , who is the father of us all (AGAIN, NO WORKS, IT IS OF GRACE THROUGH FAITH)
Rom 4: 23 Now it was not written for his sake alone that it was imputed to him, 24 but ALSO FOR US, IT SHALL BE IMPUTED TO US WHO BELIEVE IN HIM WHO RAISED UP JESUS OUR LORD FROM THE DEAD , 25 who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was RAISED BECAUSE OF OUR JUSTIFICATION (AGAIN NO WORKS)
Rom 11: 6 And IF BY GRACE, THAN IT IS NO LONGER OF WORKS, ; otherwise GRACE IS NO LONGER GRACE.But IF IT IS OF WORKS, THEN IT IS NO LONGER OF GRACE. OTHERWISE WORK IS NO LONGER WORK (AS i HAVE SAID NUMEROUS TIME, GRACE + WORKS = WORKS.. GRACE AND WORKS CAN NOT MIX IN THE AREA OF SALVATION. ITS LIKE MIXING OIL AND WATER)
2 Tim 1: 9 who HAS SAVED US (A COMPLETED ACTION) and called us with a holy calling, NOT ACCORDING TO OUR WORKS , but ACCORDING TO HIS OWN PURPOSE AND GRACE which was GIVEN TO US in Christ Jesus BEFORE TIME BEGAN (AGAIN, NO WORKS. BUT GRACE)
Titus 3: 4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS (GOOD DEEDS) WHICH WE HAVE DONE , but ACCORDING TO HIS MERCY HE SAVED USthrough the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that HAVING BEEN JUSTIFIED BY HIS GRACE we should become HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE
(AGAIN, NO QUESTION HERE. PAUL LEAVES NO QUESTION. NO GOOD DEED CAN SAVE US,. WE ARE SAVED BY GODS MERCY, AND GIVEN THE HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE. WHICH IS PROMISED BEFORE TIME BEGAN
sorry bro. but you have paul and james apposed, which means we have a bible that we can not trust.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
lol.
You were OSAS?
when and why did you believe you had eternal life? and when and why did you stop trusting God?
How serious do I take holiness?
How serious do you take the fact you can not live up to Gods standard. Why do you think you can come to the presence of God with even one sin, let alone the sins we all commit. and think God will just look past our sin and let us in because we do some good works?
Do you know God at all?
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
legalism started with the jews, but yes.. the roman church made the same mistake..
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
or maybe we can stop looking at history. and look to the word. to see that the NT church believed in eternal security.
Webers_Home
Well-Known Member
.
Jesus has been tasked with managing a number of special sheep.
● John 10:29 . . My sheep . . my Father gave them to me
Jesus' Father expects His son to be conscientious about the sheep's safety.
● John 6:39 . .This is the will of the One who sent me: that I should not lose
anything of what He gave me.
Jesus never fails to give the One what He wants.
● John 4:34 . . My food is to do the will of the One who sent me.
● John 8:29 . . I always do what is pleasing to Him.
Now the thing is: were Jesus to lose even one of the sheep that his Father
entrusted to his care-- just one --then Jesus would not be able to say that
he "always" pleases the One who sent him. He could say that he pleases the
One most of the time, but certainly not always without fail.
People are actually casting a nay vote in regard to Jesus' competence when
they insist it's possible for him to lose some of the sheep that his Father
gave him. Were Christ an ordinary guy I would be inclined to agree with the
skeptics; but his miracles demonstrate that the good shepherd has all the
powers and abilities of the supreme being at his disposal to insure he
succeeds at keeping the sheep right where his Father wants them kept.
● John 10:9 . . I am the door; whoever enters through me shall be saved.
Were Christ an ordinary guy; then he wouldn't dare say "shall be saved" no,
he'd have to tone it down a bit and say shall be safer instead of shall be
saved. That would leave him some room for error. But when Christ says
shall be saved, he's claiming a 0.0% failure rate. That's how confident Christ
is that he will lose nothing of the sheep given to him.
FAQ: Why can't the sheep change their minds about following Christ and
leave him to follow someone else?
REPLY: Animal husbandry isn't democratic, on the contrary: it's quite despotic.
The thing is: a rancher's free will trumps his herd's free will; and the
rancher's brand burned into the animals' skins indelibly identify them with
their owner. So be advised: once someone makes the decision to unify with
Christ, they relinquish whatever sovereignty they had as a beast at large
and become Christ's property.
● 1Cor 6:19-20 . .You are not your own; you were bought at a price.
● Eph 1:13 . . In him you also-- who have heard the word of truth, the
gospel of your salvation, and have believed in him --were sealed with the
promised Holy Spirit.
And there's no going back because Jesus and his Father play for keeps. In
other words: in order for the sheep to break away from Christ, they would
need to overpower not only him but his Father also; which isn't likely.
● John 10:28-29 . . No one can take them out of my hand-- my Father, who
has given them to me, is greater than all; and no one can take them out of
the Father's hand.
_
Jesus has been tasked with managing a number of special sheep.
● John 10:29 . . My sheep . . my Father gave them to me
Jesus' Father expects His son to be conscientious about the sheep's safety.
● John 6:39 . .This is the will of the One who sent me: that I should not lose
anything of what He gave me.
Jesus never fails to give the One what He wants.
● John 4:34 . . My food is to do the will of the One who sent me.
● John 8:29 . . I always do what is pleasing to Him.
Now the thing is: were Jesus to lose even one of the sheep that his Father
entrusted to his care-- just one --then Jesus would not be able to say that
he "always" pleases the One who sent him. He could say that he pleases the
One most of the time, but certainly not always without fail.
People are actually casting a nay vote in regard to Jesus' competence when
they insist it's possible for him to lose some of the sheep that his Father
gave him. Were Christ an ordinary guy I would be inclined to agree with the
skeptics; but his miracles demonstrate that the good shepherd has all the
powers and abilities of the supreme being at his disposal to insure he
succeeds at keeping the sheep right where his Father wants them kept.
● John 10:9 . . I am the door; whoever enters through me shall be saved.
Were Christ an ordinary guy; then he wouldn't dare say "shall be saved" no,
he'd have to tone it down a bit and say shall be safer instead of shall be
saved. That would leave him some room for error. But when Christ says
shall be saved, he's claiming a 0.0% failure rate. That's how confident Christ
is that he will lose nothing of the sheep given to him.
FAQ: Why can't the sheep change their minds about following Christ and
leave him to follow someone else?
REPLY: Animal husbandry isn't democratic, on the contrary: it's quite despotic.
The thing is: a rancher's free will trumps his herd's free will; and the
rancher's brand burned into the animals' skins indelibly identify them with
their owner. So be advised: once someone makes the decision to unify with
Christ, they relinquish whatever sovereignty they had as a beast at large
and become Christ's property.
● 1Cor 6:19-20 . .You are not your own; you were bought at a price.
● Eph 1:13 . . In him you also-- who have heard the word of truth, the
gospel of your salvation, and have believed in him --were sealed with the
promised Holy Spirit.
And there's no going back because Jesus and his Father play for keeps. In
other words: in order for the sheep to break away from Christ, they would
need to overpower not only him but his Father also; which isn't likely.
● John 10:28-29 . . No one can take them out of my hand-- my Father, who
has given them to me, is greater than all; and no one can take them out of
the Father's hand.
_
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Once again you are confusing salvation with justification. They are two different things.
Now you must decide who is the liar.
Romans 5
King James Version
5 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:or James:
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
In your way of thinking one must be lying!
Romans 4
King James Version
4 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
But even "good works" done by a believer can be evil in the sight of the Lord!
Faith is not a stool but one of the legs of the stool.
Behold
Well-Known Member
But the verse does not say that salvation is dead as Eterner life is Salvation, and it can't die.
Also, faith doed not save you, so, dont give faith credit where its not due.
Jesus is the Savior.. Jesus is Salvation...... He is the reason that God will accept the BELIEVER........and this acceptance happens ONE TIME.......its not progressive........its a spiritual birth.
So, if later a person's Faith is weak, or in crisis or dead.....that is AFTER God has accepted their faith, and they are born again, as a "new creation".
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