Is it possible to lose salvation?

[Ronald Nolette]

You and your unbiblical teaching concerns me. You do know that sins such as murder, stealing, having other Gods before thee, adultery etc (you know, those pesky 10 commandments) are sins? He did NOT take away from you and laid to His account (whatever that means in your bizarre world) all your sins. You do realize that kiddo....don't you?

Well kiddo, let me ask you a question. How many of your sins did Jesus die for?

So according to your statement above- there are sions of yours Jesus did not pay for and you will be required to pay for yourself?

Hell is an eternity to pay!

 

[Behold]

Yes show me that my faith is "completed" by works.

James teaches that He'll ""show you his faith by his works".
But he is not saying that the works complete faith, as Salvatoin is "Grace through faith" "without works"

Salvation is Jesus on the Cross, and you can't do that, as a work.
All you can do is receive His Sacrifice by FAITH, Believing... = and God will save you.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Yup, throw out anything else written in Scripture and you are right. Congratulations Ronald!!! Woot woot! You are the winner of the coveted 2 Peter 3:16 award given out weekly by Marymog.

We are saved by grace through faith and not works............the rest of Scripture be damned by Ronald Nolette because it doesn't fit what his Protestant liars have taught him.

good job Ronald

Well it isw Jesus who did the good job.

You want to take some credit for your salvation, by presenting good deeds. Sorry but it doesn't work that way.

Maybe if you boned up on teh English language and also the Greek and Hebrew you would find out how Romanism has lied to you about your sins and that Jesus is not the propitiation for all your sins.

 

[BreadOfLife]

But even "good works" done by a believer can be evil in the sight of the Lord!

No.

ONLY works that YOU do for and by your OWN will.
Works that God prepared for you to complete (Eph. 2:10) cannot be evil in His sight.

Faith is not a stool but one of the legs of the stool.\

I used the stool as a metaphor for faith.
Faith has more elements than just “belief” (1 leg).

Belief, trust, surrender and works are ALL elements (legs) of what “Faith” is,

 

[BreadOfLife]

James teaches that He'll ""show you his faith by his works".
But he is not saying that the works complete faith, as Salvatoin is "Grace through faith" "without works"
Salvation is Jesus on the Cross, and you can't do that, as a work.

It absolutely does.

James 2:21-22
Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he DID when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made COMPLETE by what he DID.

All you can do is receive His Sacrifice by FAITH, Believing... = and God will save you.

And even the DEMONS believe (James 2:!9).
That's why James says that faith without works is DEAD (James 2:24).

 

[Behold]

Belief, trust, surrender and works are ALL elements (legs) of what “Faith” is,

Salvation is not achieved by working for it, as if it was, then God would be in your Debt.
He's not.
Salvation is a Gift., and following Salvation, all Christians are to do works that represent their status as a Christian, but never to try to stay saved.

 

[Behold]

It absolutely does.

Actually Faith is completed once you give it to God., because Jesus is the "finisher of your Faith".
Once you trust in Christ, and before you've ever been water baptized or helped the poor........before you've done any works, "faith is counted By God as (Christ's) Righteousness."""
So, the BELIEVER is born again, before they have done any works, or good deeds.
And now they are to go out and do them, as this is proof of real faith, as James teaches.

"Present your body a living sacrifice to God'...

James 2:21-22
Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he DID when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made COMPLETE by what he DID

God accepted Abrams faith before He did any work.

Let Paul explain it.., and i'll line up the verses for you, or for anyone who wants to understand "Grace through Faith".

Paul teaches.. in Romans

""Abrham believed God, and it was counted unto him as Righteousness"

"But to Him that worketh NOT... but believeth on Him that justifies the UNGODLY, their FAITH is counted for righteousness".

"For we say that (his) FAITH was reckoned to Abraham as Righteousness"

"David also considereth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth (giveth) righteousness without works."..

"and for us also, to whom (righteousness) shall be imputed (given)..if we believe on Him who raised Jesus from the Dead"

"Therefore, being Justified by Faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus The Christ"

So, this is the simple core theology that is Paul's Doctrine, regarding "Justification by Faith" alone.

And even the DEMONS believe (James 2:!9).

Only a human can be born again.
Demons are not human.

 

[GodsGrace]

here is your tripping stone

stop tryign to fight OSAS (calvinism)

and start studying the word


I already told you

Trust, Assurance, Confidence in (the literal defenition as found in the greek)

who do you trust

God and his promise, his judgement he pronounced on you because of sin, and his salvation purchased for you with his blood

self and your works?

According to Jesus,,,we are to trust HIM by doing the works HE commanded us to do.

That means that we have OUR ROLE to play.

BELIEVE means to OBEY.

IF we believe in God,,,then we must obey God.

Ephesians 4:1-2
1 Therefore I, the prisoner of the Lord, implore you to walk in a manner worthy of the calling with which you have been called,
2 with all humility and gentleness, with patience, showing tolerance for one another in love,


Paul teaches that we are TO WALK in a manner WORTHY of our calling.
Is this a work?
Or a teaching Jesus passed on to Paul?
Does Paul contradict himself? AND Jesus?


2 Timothy 2:15
15Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.

We are to do our best to be a WORKER, approved by God.


Paul states we are not SAVED by works.
But AFTER salvation ALL the NT writers taught good works and obedience to God.

How do YOU exegete the above verses?
Not much to exegete.

 

[GodsGrace]

Actually Faith is completed once you give it to God., because Jesus is the "finisher of your Faith".
Once you trust in Christ, and before you've ever been water baptized or helped the poor........before you've done any works, "faith is counted By God as (Christ's) Righteousness."""
So, the BELIEVER is born again, before they have done any works, or good deeds.
And now they are to go out and do them, as this is proof of real faith, as James teaches.

"Present your body a living sacrifice to God'...



God accepted Abrams faith before He did any work.

Let Paul explain it.., and i'll line up the verses for you, or for anyone who wants to understand "Grace through Faith".

Paul teaches.. in Romans

""Abrham believed God, and it was counted unto him as Righteousness"

"But to Him that worketh NOT... but believeth on Him that justifies the UNGODLY, their FAITH is counted for righteousness".

"For we say that (his) FAITH was reckoned to Abraham as Righteousness"

"David also considereth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth (giveth) righteousness without works."..

"and for us also, to whom (righteousness) shall be imputed (given)..if we believe on Him who raised Jesus from the Dead"

"Therefore, being Justified by Faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus The Christ"

So, this is the simple core theology that is Paul's Doctrine, regarding "Justification by Faith" alone.




Only a human can be born again.
Demons are not human.

Abraham ALWAYS did works for God.
He didn't wait until Isaac.

Abraham left his home because God told him to.


So Paul states that righteousness will be imputed to us IF WE BELIEVE ON HIM.

Yes sir.
Correct.

IF we BELIEVE in Jesus we will be saved.

IF we do not obey...it means we do not believe.

IF we disobey, we disbelieve.

AND
Justification by FAITH ALONE is nowhere to be found in the NT.
FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS A DEAD FAITH.

James 2:14-17
14 What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?
15 If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food,
16 and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, be warmed and be filled," and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that?
17 Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.

Can THAT faith save him?
What faith?
The faith that HAS NO WORKS cannot save anyone.

Again...
Faith, IF IT HAS NO WORKS...
is a DEAD FAITH.

So easy to understand...
except for those that wish to twist the words of James and every other writer of the NT.
They all AGREE.

 

[GodsGrace]

I showed you what Jesus and paul taught
'
they taught eternal security, as sealed by the HS given to us..

Not replying to anymore posts until we go through John 15.
Too much verse ping pong and not coming to any conclusion.
I spent an hour replying to your verses that do not mean what you think they mean.

Let's spend some time on John 15.
It's what JESUS taught.
Plain and simple.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Salvation is not achieved by working for it, as if it was, then God would be in your Debt.
He's not.

And NOBODY said it was.

You’re purposely ignoring Biblical truth so you won’t have to agree with a Catholic.

Salvation is a Gift.,

Salvation IS a gift – and it requires cooperation from us (Matt. 25:31-46, 2 Thess. 2:15, 1 Cor. 13:1-3, Gal 5:6).

and following Salvation, all Christians are to do works that represent their status as a Christian, but never to try to stay saved.

Salvation is a process – NOT a one-time, slam-dunk event (1 Cor. 1:8, 2 Cor. 2:15, 7:1, Phil. 2:12, Heb 12:14, Matt. 24:13, Rom. 5:9–10, 1 Cor. 3:12–15).
Works are an essential element of that process (Matt. 25:31-46, 2 Thess. 2:15, 1 Cor. 13:1-3, Gal 5:6).

 

[GodsGrace]

And NOBODY said it was.

You’re purposely ignoring Biblical truth so you won’t have to agree with a Catholic.

Salvation IS a gift – and it requires cooperation from us (Matt. 25:31-46, 2 Thess. 2:15, 1 Cor. 13:1-3, Gal 5:6).

Salvation is a process – NOT a one-time, slam-dunk event (1 Cor. 1:8, 2 Cor. 2:15, 7:1, Phil. 2:12, Heb 12:14, Matt. 24:13, Rom. 5:9–10, 1 Cor. 3:12–15).
Works are an essential element of that process (Matt. 25:31-46, 2 Thess. 2:15, 1 Cor. 13:1-3, Gal 5:6).

He doesn't agree with Protestants either.
Some on these forums make up their own religion.

 

[Behold]

You’re purposely ignoring Biblical truth so you won’t have to agree with a Catholic.

Its the Catholic doctrine that is the issue.
Some of my favorite Saints are Catholics., based on their notable relationship with God and Christ.
Doctrinallly they are just the same old MaryCult situation.....but that didnt stop some of them from being amazing Christians.

Salvation IS a gift – and it requires cooperation

Your Part in God's Salvation, that is wrought in Christ's Sacrifice is to Believe it, and receive it.
See, Salvation is a Gift, and you dont work for a Gift.

Salvation is a process –

NEVER, is Salvation a "process".

A.) Salvation is JESUS on THE CROSS, offering Himself to God as your Salvation.
Dont leave earth without it @BreadOfLife

 

[Behold]

Abraham ALWAYS did works for God.

God accepted Abrams faith before He did any work.

Let Paul explain it.., and i'll line up the verses for you, or for anyone who wants to understand "Grace through Faith".

Paul teaches.. in Romans

""Abrham believed God, and it was counted unto him as Righteousness"

"But to Him that worketh NOT... but believeth on Him that justifies the UNGODLY, their FAITH is counted for righteousness".

"For we say that (his) FAITH was reckoned to Abraham as Righteousness"

"David also considereth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth (giveth) righteousness without works."..

"and for us also, to whom (righteousness) shall be imputed (given)..if we believe on Him who raised Jesus from the Dead"

"Therefore, being Justified by Faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus The Christ"

So, this is the simple core theology that is Paul's Doctrine, regarding "Justification by Faith" alone.

 

[Behold]

The faith that HAS NO WORKS cannot save anyone.

At the moment a person becomes a Christian, they were a lifetime sinner.
Never had they done any works for God.
God saved them "while we were YET sinners"...

Now ...they are saved....and 3 seconds ago, they were an unsaved sinner.
They haven't done any works yet, and they are now going to heaven, because they are saved.

The works follow salvation...they come later.......after you have received Salvation......after you BECOME a Christian........and THEN you do the works., as that is why you do them. Its because you are already BORN AGAIN.......

 

[GodsGrace]

Its the Catholic doctrine that is the issue.
Some of my favorite Saints are Catholics., based on their notable relationship with God and Christ.
Doctrinallly they are just the same old MaryCult situation.....but that didnt stop some of them from being amazing Christians.



Your Part in God's Salvation, that is wrought in Christ's Sacrifice is to Believe it, and receive it.
See, Salvation is a Gift, and you dont work for a Gift.



NEVER.

Salvation is JESUS on THE CROSS, offering Himself to God as your Salvation.
Dont leave earth without it @BreadOfLife

Could we see some scripture please.

@BreadOfLife posts scripture.
YOU really do not.

You state that our job is to BELIEVE what Jesus did on the cross.

Behold,,,apparently you do NOT understand the meaning of the word BELIEVE.

As many on your side of the isle do not.
Try learning about it before you teach what JESUS DID NOT TEACH,,,
nor Paul nor any of the writers.

I'm really tired of posting it to you time after time.

And, BTW, most Protestants believe that works are necessary for salvation.
So stop attacking Catholic teachings please.

Poll: Most Protestants and Catholics believe faith and works are necessary for salvation

What were once church-dividing teachings no longer define the majority of American Protestant belief.

www.americamagazine.org

 

[Moryd]

You’re oversimplifying Paul. Yes, faith counts as righteousness, but Abraham’s faith wasn’t passive, he acted on it. Paul and James agree: faith without works is dead. The “ungodly” part shows faith can justify sinners, but that faith changes you. It’s not faith instead of works, but faith that leads to works. Grace through faith isn’t a free pass to do nothing

 

[GodsGrace]

God accepted Abrams faith before He did any work.

Let Paul explain it.., and i'll line up the verses for you, or for anyone who wants to understand "Grace through Faith".

Paul teaches.. in Romans

""Abrham believed God, and it was counted unto him as Righteousness"

"But to Him that worketh NOT... but believeth on Him that justifies the UNGODLY, their FAITH is counted for righteousness".

"For we say that (his) FAITH was reckoned to Abraham as Righteousness"

"David also considereth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth (giveth) righteousness without works."..

"and for us also, to whom (righteousness) shall be imputed (given)..if we believe on Him who raised Jesus from the Dead"

"Therefore, being Justified by Faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus The Christ"

So, this is the simple core theology that is Paul's Doctrine, regarding "Justification by Faith" alone.

Too bad James doesn't agree with Paul. (according to you).

Once again BAD THEOLOGY has caused a conflict in the NT....

James 1:22
22 But prove yourselves doers of the word, and not merely hearers who delude themselves.

James 2:20-24
20 But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar?
22 You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected;
23 and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "AND ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS," and he was called the friend of God.
24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.


FAITH ALONE is a non-biblical idea that came about at the Reformation.
A NEW idea that NEVER existed in the early church.
An idea invented by a man that was heretical in many of his teachings:
Martin Luther, John Calvin, John Knox
and others.

Come back to Christianity....
instead of creating conflicts due to BAD THEOLOGY.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Actually Faith is completed once you give it to God., because Jesus is the "finisher of your Faith".
Once you trust in Christ, and before you've ever been water baptized or helped the poor........before you've done any works, "faith is counted By God as (Christ's) Righteousness."""
So, the BELIEVER is born again, before they have done any works, or good deeds.
And now they are to go out and do them, as this is proof of real faith, as James teaches.

"Present your body a living sacrifice to God'...

God accepted Abrams faith before He did any work.

Let Paul explain it.., and i'll line up the verses for you, or for anyone who wants to understand "Grace through Faith".

Paul teaches.. in Romans

""Abrham believed God, and it was counted unto him as Righteousness"

"But to Him that worketh NOT... but believeth on Him that justifies the UNGODLY, their FAITH is counted for righteousness".

"For we say that (his) FAITH was reckoned to Abraham as Righteousness"

"David also considereth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth (giveth) righteousness without works."..

"and for us also, to whom (righteousness) shall be imputed (given)..if we believe on Him who raised Jesus from the Dead"

"Therefore, being Justified by Faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus The Christ"

So, this is the simple core theology that is Paul's Doctrine, regarding "Justification by Faith" alone.

And what does it mean to “Believe”??
It certainly doesn’t mean intellectual assent.

James explains WHAT Abraham’s “faith” was - NOT just that he "believed":
James 2:21-24
Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he DID. “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness and he was called God’s friend. You see that a person is considered righteous by what they DO and NOT by faith alone.

Only a human can be born again.
Demons are not human.

Correct – so it takes MORE than simply “believing” . . .

 

[GodsGrace]

At the moment a person becomes a Christian, they were a lifetime sinner.
Never had they done any works for God.
God saved them "while we were YET sinners"...

Now ...they are saved....and 3 seconds ago, they were an unsaved sinner.
They haven't done any works yet, and they are now going to heaven, because they are saved.

The works follow salvation...they come later.......after you have received Salvation......after you BECOME a Christian........and THEN you do the works., as that is why you do them. Its because you are already BORN AGAIN.......

Stop with the strawman Behold.

I'm discussing AFTER salvation.

AFTER salvation we are REQUIRED to obey Jesus.

Why?

TO OBEY GOD....
so we can CONTINUE to be saved.

No obedience to God...
No salvation.

John 3:36
36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."