Is it possible to lose salvation?

[Eternally Grateful]

You have the same problem as EG and all who teach this OSAS idea.

here is your tripping stone

stop tryign to fight OSAS (calvinism)

and start studying the word

What does BELIEVE mean?

I already told you

Trust, Assurance, Confidence in (the literal defenition as found in the greek)

who do you trust

God and his promise, his judgement he pronounced on you because of sin, and his salvation purchased for you with his blood

self and your works?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Of course you teach OSAS


You deny and reject the teachings of Jesus and Paul.

But must leave now.

I showed you what Jesus and paul taught
'
they taught eternal security, as sealed by the HS given to us..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Cite where Paul says "faith alone". Show it or stop saying it

Show me the word trinity

show me or stop telling me to show you the word alone.

The word trinity is not stated in the word. yet the doctrine and truth is real

Just like Paul said

Faith no works = faith alone, I do not need the word alone. to show it is faith only.. not of works les anyone should boast.

If you want to use this trick to try to stop you from seeing the truth. thats on you bro

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Silliness. What other people see is utterly irrelevant. If faith alone was sufficient there is no reason for James to write, faith is completed by works and that a man is saved by works AND not by "faith alone". You people just ignore what you dont like.

Yes there is, BECAUSE James spoke to LICENTIOUS believers. who claimed to have faith BUT HAD NO WORKS.

He used abraham, who was saved completely in Gen 15. but his faith was not alone. by using the example that by Abraham's work many years later was completed.

Faith saved.

But faith does not stop at salvation. it grows..

 

[nedsk]

Yes there is, BECAUSE James spoke to LICENTIOUS believers. who claimed to have faith BUT HAD NO WORKS.

He used abraham, who was saved completely in Gen 15. but his faith was not alone. by using the example that by Abraham's work many years later was completed.

Faith saved.

But faith does not stop at salvation. it grows..

Right. Faith is completed by works just as James says. BTW show me where James says he talking about "licentious" believers.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Wheres v24? What does it say? You people are obstinent

You're the one struggling to reconcile the two. Paul tells us faith is NECESSARY not sufficient and James tell us faith is COMPLETED by works. Perfect harmony

James 2:
14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

Paul romans 4:

rom 4: 3 For what does the Scripture say? “ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD AND HE ACOUNTED IT TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.” 4 Now TO HIM WHO WORKS, THE WAGES ARE NOT COUNTED AS GRACE BUT DEBT (Works cancels out grace. and makes it a wage) 5 But TO HIM WHO DOES NOT WORK but BELIEVES ON HIM WHO JUSTIFIES THE UNGOLDY , his HIS FAITH IS ACCOUNTED FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS

romans 11
Rom 11: 6 And IF BY GRACE, THAN IT IS NO LONGER OF WORKS, ; otherwise GRACE IS NO LONGER GRACE.But IF IT IS OF WORKS, THEN IT IS NO LONGER OF GRACE. OTHERWISE WORK IS NO LONGER WORK

You must resolve this issue of contradiction.

Why are paul and james saying the total opposite of what the other said? Why are they in contradiction (or appear to be) resolve the conflict.

or continue to show who is really Obstinant (your word)

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Ephesians 1:13-14
In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.


If someone believes that a Christian can lose their salvation they are mistaken.

The seal of the holy spirit is eternal.

amen what does it say

sealed until when?

We lost salvation?
We start sinning again
We fail to get baptized or do other christian traditions?

or resurrection day? (the day of redemption)

 

[nedsk]

James 2:
14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

Paul romans 4:

rom 4: 3 For what does the Scripture say? “ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD AND HE ACOUNTED IT TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.” 4 Now TO HIM WHO WORKS, THE WAGES ARE NOT COUNTED AS GRACE BUT DEBT (Works cancels out grace. and makes it a wage) 5 But TO HIM WHO DOES NOT WORK but BELIEVES ON HIM WHO JUSTIFIES THE UNGOLDY , his HIS FAITH IS ACCOUNTED FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS

romans 11
Rom 11: 6 And IF BY GRACE, THAN IT IS NO LONGER OF WORKS, ; otherwise GRACE IS NO LONGER GRACE.But IF IT IS OF WORKS, THEN IT IS NO LONGER OF GRACE. OTHERWISE WORK IS NO LONGER WORK

You must resolve this issue of contradiction.

Why are paul and james saying the total opposite of what the other said? Why are they in contradiction (or appear to be) resolve the conflict.

or continue to show who is really Obstinant (your word)

Why would faith need to be made perfect if it was sufficient? Oh that's right it's wouldn't.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

What I need you to do right now is copy and paste where I said works saves. What did i say works do? What does James say works do? You arent arguing with me

lol

people make me laugh

attack others. then sit there with a serious face they are not doing something they do every day..

and we should listen to you?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

So I can rob banks. Cool

All things are lawfull.

Not all things are profitable

rob a bank and see what happens.. Will pay you do not suffer the sin unto death

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Its not personal. its an observation. You need to get over it. Answer what?

Paul tells us we need a car. James tells us we need a car with an motor otherwise we go NOWHERE. The words are plain and simple. You ignore them. Thats not my fault.

actually Paul said we need a ride.

when we receive the ride. we are to do something with that ride

James said if you claim you have that ride. but have never done anything with it. What good is the ride.. did you get one at all?

probably not

 

[nedsk]

All things are lawfull.

Not all things are profitable

rob a bank and see what happens.. Will pay you do not suffer the sin unto death

If faith is all I need (sufficient) for salvation then how I behave is irrelevant just like you people say .

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Its amazing how adept some people are avoiding the point.

robing a bank
telling a little white lie

on purpose

on accident (we succumbed to the temptation and fell)

both are guilty
both are worthy of eternal death and separation.

why do you focus on one and not on the other?

have you studied the life of David, what did he do AFTER he was called the man after Gods own heart..

yeah I thought so

 

[nedsk]

actually Paul said we need a ride.

when we receive the ride. we are to do something with that ride

James said if you claim you have that ride. but have never done anything with it. What good is the ride.. did you get one at all?

probably not

But a man is saved by works AND not faith alone. Bingo!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Copy and paste from scripture where James says works "show" our faith. Do it now.

HIS FAITH IS PERFECTED

Not his salvation is assured or complete.

Abraham was saved in Gen 15. In Gen 22 (decades after he was saved)

he offered his son..

did this not prove to everyone abraham had perfected his faith?

Would you do this yourself?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Works dont save they complete faith that does save. Thats why James says faith without works is dead.

then we are saved by works

there you just said it

 

[Eternally Grateful]

and we should walk in them

Correct.....

And if we don't, are not obedient, we don't walk the walk, then what happens with our saved state?

We are cut off, right?

Are we out?

who does not walk in it?

What does this mean?

And who saved us? If God saved us and we do not earn it, is that our fault or Gods?

who's reputation is on the line?

what happens is we become like prodigal children. but a child is still a child..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The cross is sufficient to make salvation available you have to complete your salvation by works just as James said. You want to insist something is true that isnt. You haven't the foggiest idea what sufficient means

there you go. you just once again you save yourself by works.

No. the cross is sufficient to save us

Atonement is by the blood. not by my works.

again, Paul said if we work, we incur debt, not forgiveness..

You do not understand james at all.. and you continue to ignore paul and jesus

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Right. Faith is completed by works just as James says. BTW show me where James says he talking about "licentious" believers.

Faith is completred. Not salvation.

We start with faith of a mustard seed. that saves. But our faith in God grows every day (or it should)

look what all abraham had to do to get to the point he offered his son. because God understood his promise.. was abraham this trustworthy in the begining?

of course not

a licentious person is one who claims they have faith. but lives like the world.. You know a hearer not a doer.

what did the people james spoke of do?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Why would faith need to be made perfect if it was sufficient? Oh that's right it's wouldn't.

lol

So I take it you had perfect faith the moment you were saved and have perfect faith today?