Christadelphians, the Devil and Satan

[Hiddenthings]

I was recently reminded that, for some, the borderline between mental illness and demonic harassment is more than just an academic theological exercise.

Imagine a believer suffering because of a misdiagnosis, such a misunderstanding could cause them to fear something that isn’t real, while preventing them from truly understanding what is.

 

[Lambano]

Imagine a believer suffering because of a misdiagnosis, such a misunderstanding could cause them to fear something that isn’t real, while preventing them from truly understanding what is.

Maybe. Which one carries more of a stigma?

 

[dak]

Nothing untrue about my reply.

Did you copy and paste? Yes!

Will this help you? No!

You do not realize that when you make such judgments about others that you are automatically comparing them against yourself? You can only do such a thing by assuming that you are right; and that is the standard which you employ in order to judge another as "without (having) an understanding of the Word". The only way you can make that judgment is by assuming that you yourself do indeed have an understanding of the Word but that isn't enough to actually prove that your understanding is correct. That kind of judgment is a catastrophic mistake if and when your assumption concerning yourself and your understanding is incorrect. I've posted scripture in support of the things I have offered herein.

Copying and pasting without an understanding of the Word will not help you.

 

[Matthias]

I was recently reminded that, for some, the borderline between mental illness and demonic harassment is more than just an academic theological exercise.

I’ve spoken with every person who has posted in this thread. None of them come across as being mentally ill. There is, however, demonic harassment happening in the thread.

 

[Lambano]

I’ve spoken with every person who has posted in this thread. None of them come across as being mentally ill. There is, however, demonic harassment happening in the thread.

I was referring to a prayer request in the Prayer forum. Real s*** going down. Somebody hurting bad. Not an academic exercise.

That's the downside of cultivating a reputation for snarkiness.

 

[Matthias]

I was referring to a prayer request in the Prayer forum. Real s*** going down. Somebody hurting bad. Not an academic exercise.

That's the downside of cultivating a reputation for snarkiness.

I’m aware of the situation and I’m praying for the member. One of the few drawbacks for me (a primitive Christian living in a Nicene Christian environment) being registered as an “Other Faith” member is that I don’t have the privilege of posting (or even reacting) in that forum.

 

[Lambano]

I’m aware of the situation and I’m praying for the member. One of the few drawbacks for me (a primitive Christian living in a Nicene Christian environment) being registered as an “Other Faith” member is that I don’t have the privilege of posting (or even reacting) in that forum.

Okay; I understand your situation. And thank you for praying.

 

[Matthias]

Mental illness is real. So too is the Satan and the demons. I come across people in both categories (more by far falling in the first category than in the second) in my volunteer work with neglected, abused and at risk children.

 

[Matthias]

What is the difference between mental illness and demonic possession? The linked article gives a well-balanced answer from a pastor’s / non-Christadelphian perspective.

A Pastor's Reflections: Demon Possession and Mental Illness - Westminster Seminary California

I can remember sitting in church as a young teenager as my pastor posed a question about the possible links between demon possession and mental illness.

www.wscal.edu

 

[Matthias]

“You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe and shudder!”

(James 2:19, LEB)

Remember that - for the Christadelphian - “demon” is human nature.

You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the [human natures] believe and shudder!

How does sound in your ears?

 

[talons]

I’ve spoken with every person who has posted in this thread. None of them come across as being mentally ill. There is, however, demonic harassment happening in the thread.

After being numbered with "the crazies " in a reply I lost my desire to converse with the one who numbered me .

I once spent a little more than a couple of week in a hospital on a limited access floor , a lot of the patients on that floor were having mental problems . I did have a slight psychosis going on , it was partly my fault . The other culprit in my problems was Satan . God had given me something to do and placed me in just the right spot at just the right time to throw a monkey wrench in what Satan was up to . Upon this happening Satan wanted me out of the picture , I fought Satan with my own power and I was quite over matched . I lived and learned .
I interacted with the other patients with a lot worse problems than mine , we could walk the halls and visit other patients .
The nurses were great , I spent a lot of time talking with them . I played games and had talk sessions with the other patients , I prayed for the other patients and nurses and doctors . I never thought of the other patients as crazies .

Here is a link to the dream I had about being in the hospital about six months before I was actually in the hospital .

How do you know if your dream is really from God?

Well, I don't doubt you had this dream and it was as you described it. But, I wouldn't involve God with it. The problem is that we all have dreams, some more than others, but I really don't think that God is behind these dreams, it is just part of being human. No this wasnt a pizza dream nor...

www.christianityboard.com

 

[Matthias]

After being numbered with "the crazies " in a reply I lost my desire to converse with the one who numbered me .

Same here. I just want to stress again that that is atypical behavior in my experience with the Christadelphians. I’m denied fellowship with them because I reject their dogma concerning Satan and the demons but I do have a lot in common with them. They are primitive Christians and I harbor no personal animosity against them.

I once spent a little more than a couple of week in a hospital on a limited access floor , a lot of the patients on that floor were having mental problems . I did have a slight psychosis going on , it was partly my fault . The other culprit in my problems was Satan . God had given me something to do and placed me in just the right spot at just the right time to throw a monkey wrench in what Satan was up to . Upon this happening Satan wanted me out of the picture , I fought Satan with my own power and I was quite over matched . I lived and learned .
I interacted with the other patients with a lot worse problems than mine , we could walk the halls and visit other patients .
The nurses were great , I spent a lot of time talking with them . I played games and had talk sessions with the other patients , I prayed for the other patients and nurses and doctors . I never thought of the other patients as crazies .

Thank you for sharing this with your readers. I’m sure it will be received as a blessing to many.

 

[TrevorHL]

Greetings Matthias,

Remember that - for the Christadelphian - “demon” is human nature.
You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the [human natures] believe and shudder!
How does sound in your ears?

I do not accept that "demon" is human nature. We must consider each context. Some suffered from being deaf and dumb, and I consider that this would be a physical impairment. Some are mentally sick. Again this is not "human nature" but there are many different types of mental illness. I have suffered two sessions over 40 years ago, perhaps a mental breakdown and spent two periods of about two weeks recovering in a mental hospital, but I never considered that I was demon possessed, and none of the medical staff attempted to exorcise the demon(s), and my recovery was a slow realignment of thoughts and understanding reality. Two Pentecostals in Australia were convinced that the man's wife had a demon in her stomach and the Pastor and her husband kept on punching her stomach, but they actually killed her as result.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Matthias]

Greetings Matthias,

I do not accept that "demon" is human nature. We must consider each context. Some suffered from being deaf and dumb, and I consider that this would be a physical impairment. Some are mentally sick. Again this is not "human nature" but there are many different types of mental illness. I have suffered two sessions over 40 years ago, perhaps a mental breakdown and spent two periods of about two weeks recovering in a mental hospital, but I never considered that I was demon possessed, and none of the medical staff attempted to exorcise the demon(s), and my recovery was a slow realignment of thoughts and understanding reality. Two Pentecostals in Australia were convinced that the man's wife had a demon in her stomach and the Pastor and her husband kept on punching her stomach, but they actually killed her as result.

Kind regards
Trevor

Thanks Trevor. It’s always a pleasure speaking with you.

Let’s look at James 2:19 again.

”You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe and shudder!”

You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the _______ believe and shudder!

Who or what are the “demons”? How would you fill in the blank?

 

[Hiddenthings]

Maybe. Which one carries more of a stigma?

Blaming the devil shifts responsibility, owning your actions shows accountability

 

[Hiddenthings]

You do not realize that when you make such judgments about others that you are automatically comparing them against yourself? You can only do such a thing by assuming that you are right; and that is the standard which you employ in order to judge another as "without (having) an understanding of the Word". The only way you can make that judgment is by assuming that you yourself do indeed have an understanding of the Word but that isn't enough to actually prove that your understanding is correct. That kind of judgment is a catastrophic mistake if and when your assumption concerning yourself and your understanding is incorrect. I've posted scripture in support of the things I have offered herein.

…which is why evidence is essential, Dak. I’ve shown you what is true, what you choose to do with it is up to you. Whether you accept it, reject it, or preach it, the issue remains: your position is flawed. No matter how hard you try, you have no origin story for this being, no clear definition, and certainly no teaching from the Lord Jesus Christ instructing us to 'follow a command' regarding it. All the warnings you can muster will not overcome this reality.

 

[Hiddenthings]

Thanks Trevor. It’s always a pleasure speaking with you.

Let’s look at James 2:19 again.

”You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe and shudder!”

You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the _______ believe and shudder!

Who or what are the “demons”? How would you fill in the blank?

Why Matthias would you quote a verse which is clearly referring to the work of Christ healing people of illnesses? (Mark 3:11; Luke 4:34, 41)

And yes, even the weakness of the flesh shutters at the power of a Single All-Powerful God.

 

[David in NJ]

It does say that angels sinned here

2Peter 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment

YEP

 

[Hiddenthings]

What is the difference between mental illness and demonic possession? The linked article gives a well-balanced answer from a pastor’s / non-Christadelphian perspective.

A Pastor's Reflections: Demon Possession and Mental Illness - Westminster Seminary California

I can remember sitting in church as a young teenager as my pastor posed a question about the possible links between demon possession and mental illness.

www.wscal.edu

What’s interesting about this subject is that today, no one refers to these conditions as demon possession. Modern scholars recognize the limitations of medical understanding 2,000 years ago. In fact, the first recorded medical diagnosis of epilepsy didn’t appear until around 610 AD.

 

[David in NJ]

Thanks Trevor. It’s always a pleasure speaking with you.

Let’s look at James 2:19 again.

”You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe and shudder!”

You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the _______ believe and shudder!

Who or what are the “demons”? How would you fill in the blank?

imho, demons are the disembodied spirits of the nephilim

Fallen angels are also spirits but remain as angels, however they are now locked into Judgment with satan.