Daniel's 1260 vs. 1290 vs. 1335 vs 2300 Days Prophecies (Abomination of Desolation Was the Crucifixion)

[Wish-it]

I've heard that, but I don't see how that is possible? Dan 8 and 11 are recognized as historically fulfilled prophecies, and in some cases even named as such.

Since when does "prophecy" by definition have to refer to "future prophecies?" For example, prophecies given in the bible to predict Christ's birth do not stop becoming "prophecy" just because it was fulfilled in the past.

That is called the "Millennial-Day Theory." It does seem to have some justification.

The focus in Daniel is on the 4th Kingdom, which I believe to be the Roman Imperial Culture, manifesting through history in both Eastern and Western Europe in the form of empires. Even today Russia sees itself as a kind of "empire."

Yes, these are "neighbors" of Israel on a smaller scale than "superpowers." They do not, in my opinion, fulfil the qualifications necessary to be attached to the 4th Kingdom, which I believe is in Europe.

Thanks for your thoughts. We see through a glass darkly (KJV).

Islam to me is the big foe, why, the blessings of Ishmael and Esau, plus Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the pregnancy of Rebekah. The book of Obadiah, Malachi 1. HE has given us the end from the beginning, the clues are there. Europe or Rome, USA etc will be proxy players for sure, as we are seeing now, as the whole world, supports Gaza, and appears to hate Israel. This is a family battle. The beast of Rev 13, made up of a combination of Islamic nations.
I don't accept, tho I used to, that the prophecies are historically accepted as fulfilled. What if Dan 12.4 was opened yet. And even Dan 8.17,19,26 explains WHEN the vision of the goat and the ram is for, specifically the "time of wrath" as quoted in Dan 11.36 about the AC. Our forefathers had the same Spirit you and I have, and they, like us, can be wrong. So why use the middle man.
The fourth beast, Islamic coalition like the Ottoman empire, once was, now is not,but will come again.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Islam to me is the big foe, why, the blessings of Ishmael and Esau, plus Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the pregnancy of Rebekah. The book of Obadiah, Malachi 1. HE has given us the end from the beginning, the clues are there. Europe or Rome, USA etc will be proxy players for sure, as we are seeing now, as the whole world, supports Gaza, and appears to hate Israel. This is a family battle. The beast of Rev 13, made up of a combination of Islamic nations.
I don't accept, tho I used to, that the prophecies are historically accepted as fulfilled. What if Dan 12.4 was opened yet. And even Dan 8.17,19,26 explains WHEN the vision of the goat and the ram is for, specifically the "time of wrath" as quoted in Dan 11.36 about the AC. Our forefathers had the same Spirit you and I have, and they, like us, can be wrong. So why use the middle man.
The fourth beast, Islamic coalition like the Ottoman empire, once was, now is not,but will come again.

I see the Islamic powers as significant--just at a lower scale than the superpowers. Israel was the model for Christian Europe, and Israel's early neighbors, such as Syria and Egypt, were models for the Islamic Middle East. God started with locals and ended up with the world. When Christian Europe falls, just as Israel fell, then we're in the last of the last days, from my perspective.

Put another way, I think the Mediterranean region God used as a starting point from which to expand outwards to the world. The Mediterranean world therefore was a microcosm of what would be in the last days, when Christianity has expanded out to include lands beyonds the oceans.

Even Roman culture was sort of confined to Europe, East and West. However, European Civilization has expanded across the world, reaching as far as Australia and remote parts of Russia. So we're no longer just talking about Israel and the Middle East. Even Islam has reached as far as Indonesia and various parts of Africa, but its power is still somehwat "3rd world."

Again, Dan 8 and 11 were virtually identified as ancient powers. Using their descriptions for modern developments confuses the prophecies for me. But we'll all have to interpret it the best we can.

 

[Wish-it]

I see the Islamic powers as significant--just at a lower scale than the superpowers. Israel was the model for Christian Europe, and Israel's early neighbors, such as Syria and Egypt, were models for the Islamic Middle East. God started with locals and ended up with the world. When Christian Europe falls, just as Israel fell, then we're in the last of the last days, from my perspective.

Put another way, I think the Mediterranean region God used as a starting point from which to expand outwards to the world. The Mediterranean world therefore was a microcosm of what would be in the last days, when Christianity has expanded out to include lands beyonds the oceans.

Even Roman culture was sort of confined to Europe, East and West. However, European Civilization has expanded across the world, reaching as far as Australia and remote parts of Russia. So we're no longer just talking about Israel and the Middle East. Even Islam has reached as far as Indonesia and various parts of Africa, but its power is still somehwat "3rd world."

Again, Dan 8 and 11 were virtually identified as ancient powers. Using their descriptions for modern developments confuses the prophecies for me. But we'll all have to interpret it the best we can.

Its a book about the middle east and about the family of Abraham. God said, I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come.
Isa 45.21 Declare what is to be, present it-let them take counsel together.
Who foretold this long ago, who declared it from the distant past. Was it not I , the Lord.
Show scripture that confirms Europe and Rome in the early books of scripture. Ishmael and Esau blessings reveals here this will end.
Dan 7.7

I see the Islamic powers as significant--just at a lower scale than the superpowers. Israel was the model for Christian Europe, and Israel's early neighbors, such as Syria and Egypt, were models for the Islamic Middle East. God started with locals and ended up with the world. When Christian Europe falls, just as Israel fell, then we're in the last of the last days, from my perspective.

Put another way, I think the Mediterranean region God used as a starting point from which to expand outwards to the world. The Mediterranean world therefore was a microcosm of what would be in the last days, when Christianity has expanded out to include lands beyonds the oceans.

Even Roman culture was sort of confined to Europe, East and West. However, European Civilization has expanded across the world, reaching as far as Australia and remote parts of Russia. So we're no longer just talking about Israel and the Middle East. Even Islam has reached as far as Indonesia and various parts of Africa, but its power is still somehwat "3rd world."

Again, Dan 8 and 11 were virtually identified as ancient powers. Using their descriptions for modern developments confuses the prophecies for me. But we'll all have to interpret it the best

I see the Islamic powers as significant--just at a lower scale than the superpowers. Israel was the model for Christian Europe, and Israel's early neighbors, such as Syria and Egypt, were models for the Islamic Middle East. God started with locals and ended up with the world. When Christian Europe falls, just as Israel fell, then we're in the last of the last days, from my perspective.

Put another way, I think the Mediterranean region God used as a starting point from which to expand outwards to the world. The Mediterranean world therefore was a microcosm of what would be in the last days, when Christianity has expanded out to include lands beyonds the oceans.

Even Roman culture was sort of confined to Europe, East and West. However, European Civilization has expanded across the world, reaching as far as Australia and remote parts of Russia. So we're no longer just talking about Israel and the Middle East. Even Islam has reached as far as Indonesia and various parts of Africa, but its power is still somehwat "3rd world."

Again, Dan 8 and 11 were virtually identified as ancient powers. Using their descriptions for modern developments confuses the prophecies for me. But we'll all have to interpret it the best we can.

But isn't Israel the model of Israel, its a Middle Eastern book about the family of Abraham. Why was Ishmael born, what does his blessings from Abraham say, Gen 16.12+ He will be a wild donkey of a man; his hand will be against everyone
and everyone’s hand against him, and he will live in hostility toward all his brothers.” Who are his brothers
Esau's blessing, Gen 27.40 You will live by the sword and you will serve your brother.
But when you grow restless, you will throw his yoke from off your neck.”
Rebekah pregnancy, Gen 25.23+
"Two nations are in your womb,
and two peoples from within you will be separated; one people will be stronger than the other, and the older will serve the younger.”
Islam is the descendants of Ishmael and Esau, read Obadiah, Malachi 1. The theme throughout scripture.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Its a book about the middle east and about the family of Abraham. God said, I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come.
Isa 45.21 Declare what is to be, present it-let them take counsel together.
Who foretold this long ago, who declared it from the distant past. Was it not I , the Lord.
Show scripture that confirms Europe and Rome in the early books of scripture. Ishmael and Esau blessings reveals here this will end.
Dan 7.7

But isn't Israel the model of Israel, its a Middle Eastern book about the family of Abraham. Why was Ishmael born, what does his blessings from Abraham say, Gen 16.12+ He will be a wild donkey of a man; his hand will be against everyone
and everyone’s hand against him, and he will live in hostility toward all his brothers.” Who are his brothers
Esau's blessing, Gen 27.40 You will live by the sword and you will serve your brother.
But when you grow restless, you will throw his yoke from off your neck.”
Rebekah pregnancy, Gen 25.23+
"Two nations are in your womb,
and two peoples from within you will be separated; one people will be stronger than the other, and the older will serve the younger.”
Islam is the descendants of Ishmael and Esau, read Obadiah, Malachi 1. The theme throughout scripture.

The Bible is not just a Middle East book, and is not just about Israel and Ishmael/Esau. That was just a beginning point in the plan of redemption. The Bible actually begins with Adam and Noah, encompassing the world--not just Abraham's descendants.

But the expansion of Israel to the world does not leave Israel and Ishmael behind. The Jewish influence and the Mohammedan influence continues to this very day. The plan of redemption, however, involves Christ, and encompasses the entire world. Europe has embraced Christianity, and the East has largely rejected it.

When European Christianity, which has spread across the world, abandons the Christian faith, we will have the fullest extent of apostasy, whch will lead to the arrival of a European Antichrist with global superiority.

The Scriptures were completed at the time Christ arrived and Rome was in power, which succeeded the previous 3 kingdoms of Dan 2 and 7, alredy identified as Babylon, Persia, and Greece. Rome was self-idenitified in the NT Scriptures as the power who not only succeeded Greece, but also opposed Christ.

It was not specifically named as "the 4th Kingdom" because it would make Christians appear to be treasonous in a time Rome ruled over them. But the book of Revelation uses cryptic language to identify the "Harlot" as Rome in ch. 17.

It is the city that rules the world--obviously Rome. It is a 7-hilled city--obvioiusly Rome. And counting 7 biblical kingdoms, Rome is the 6th kingdom.

It is also the empire that martyred the early Christian saints. This all adds up to Rome, in my view.

 

[Wish-it]

The Bible is not just a Middle East book, and is not just about Israel and Ishmael/Esau. That was just a beginning point in the plan of redemption. The Bible actually begins with Adam and Noah, encompassing the world--not just Abraham's descendants.

But the expansion of Israel to the world does not leave Israel and Ishmael behind. The Jewish influence and the Mohammedan influence continues to this very day. The plan of redemption, however, involves Christ, and encompasses the entire world. Europe has embraced Christianity, and the East has largely rejected it.

When European Christianity, which has spread across the world, abandons the Christian faith, we will have the fullest extent of apostasy, whch will lead to the arrival of a European Antichrist with global superiority.

The Scriptures were completed at the time Christ arrived and Rome was in power, which succeeded the previous 3 kingdoms of Dan 2 and 7, alredy identified as Babylon, Persia, and Greece. Rome was self-idenitified in the NT Scriptures as the power who not only succeeded Greece, but also opposed Christ.

It was not specifically named as "the 4th Kingdom" because it would make Christians appear to be treasonous in a time Rome ruled over them. But the book of Revelation uses cryptic language to identify the "Harlot" as Rome in ch. 17.

It is the city that rules the world--obviously Rome. It is a 7-hilled city--obvioiusly Rome. And counting 7 biblical kingdoms, Rome is the 6th kingdom.

It is also the empire that martyred the early Christian saints. This all adds up to Rome, in my view.

So when will Rome surrounded Israel, led by an aged Pope? And not a mention in scripture but does mention Ezekiel 38,39, Zechariah 12-14, Rev 16, Psalm 83. All predominately islam nations.

 

[Randy Kluth]

So when will Rome surrounded Israel, led by an aged Pope? And not a mention in scripture but does mention Ezekiel 38,39, Zechariah 12-14, Rev 16, Psalm 83. All predominately islam nations.

The Roman Army surrounded Jerusalem in the time immediately following after the "cutting off" of Christ (70 AD), just as Dan 9 predicted and just as Luke 21 indicated it would take place. Like vultures on a corpse, the Roman Army set its abominable forces in the "holy place," ie in the area of Jerusalem and the Temple. Then they destroyed both the city and the sanctuary, as we read in Dan 9 and just as Jesus predicted, "not one stone will remain on another."

In the endtimes, the nations will gather against Jerusalem at Armageddon in Israel. This may or may not be the destruction of Gog, who may be the Antichrist--I don't know? But this final world battle will highlight the Antichrist, who is the last Roman emperor, in my view.

 

[Wish-it]

The Roman Army surrounded Jerusalem in the time immediately following after the "cutting off" of Christ (70 AD), just as Dan 9 predicted and just as Luke 21 indicated it would take place. Like vultures on a corpse, the Roman Army set its abominable forces in the "holy place," ie in the area of Jerusalem and the Temple. Then they destroyed both the city and the sanctuary, as we read in Dan 9 and just as Jesus predicted, "not one stone will remain on another."

In the endtimes, the nations will gather against Jerusalem at Armageddon in Israel. This may or may not be the destruction of Gog, who may be the Antichrist--I don't know? But this final world battle will highlight the Antichrist, who is the last Roman emperor, in my view.

Interesting perspective. The thing i like about mine, is it doesn't place emphasis on the past, and so may help in understanding what God is saying to us today. I also find the islam perspective fits well, from Genesis to Revelation, the fight between the brothers is seen through out.
Even the AC becomes obvious, Islamic once again, even the mark fits the narrative. Christians will be asked, Can you say, there is one God, and his name is Allah, and Mohamed is his prophet. The king of Assryia is treated as the AC in scripture. Assyria is the last nation named in Psalm 83. The beasts of Dan 7, the nations surrounding Israel all Islamic. The Rev 13 beast, part Babylon, part Mede Persia part Javan. Scripture confirming itself. Obdiah 18, Jacob will be a fire, Joseph a flame. Esau will be stubble. Malachi 1 Yet, I have loved Jacob, but Esau I have hated, even Dan 11.20 a tax collector fits with Islam's pillars of faith, the Zakat, by the leader prior to Dan 11.22 acknowledgement of the AC.
Gen 27.39,40 the older will serve the younger, but when he gets restless he will throw off his brothers yoke. Is that what we are seeing on our TV screens at this time. I consider it probable.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Interesting perspective. The thing i like about mine, is it doesn't place emphasis on the past, and so may help in understanding what God is saying to us today. I also find the islam perspective fits well, from Genesis to Revelation, the fight between the brothers is seen through out.
Even the AC becomes obvious, Islamic once again, even the mark fits the narrative. Christians will be asked, Can you say, there is one God, and his name is Allah, and Mohamed is his prophet. The king of Assryia is treated as the AC in scripture. Assyria is the last nation named in Psalm 83. The beasts of Dan 7, the nations surrounding Israel all Islamic. The Rev 13 beast, part Babylon, part Mede Persia part Javan. Scripture confirming itself. Obdiah 18, Jacob will be a fire, Joseph a flame. Esau will be stubble. Malachi 1 Yet, I have loved Jacob, but Esau I have hated, even Dan 11.20 a tax collector fits with Islam's pillars of faith, the Zakat, by the leader prior to Dan 11.22 acknowledgement of the AC.
Gen 27.39,40 the older will serve the younger, but when he gets restless he will throw off his brothers yoke. Is that what we are seeing on our TV screens at this time. I consider it probable.

I think Islam will obviously play a big role in endtimes prophecy. I just think Antichrist will be a bigger player. European Civilization has always triumphed over Islam, in my view. And when Europe goes "south," I think it will be a competition between one Antichrist and another Antichrist. I think the post-Christian Civilization of Euroope will, once again, win out over Islam. After all, Antichrist will see himself as God, which is something Islam will not countenance. But this is all speculative for me at this point. Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[Wish-it]

I think Islam will obviously play a big role in endtimes prophecy. I just think Antichrist will be a bigger player. European Civilization has always triumphed over Islam, in my view. And when Europe goes "south," I think it will be a competition between one Antichrist and another Antichrist. I think the post-Christian Civilization of Euroope will, once again, win out over Islam. After all, Antichrist will see himself as God, which is something Islam will not countenance. But this is all speculative for me at this point. Thanks for your thoughts.

I agree from one of your previous posts that Gods plan encompasses the whole of civilisation, but that most of it will centre on Israel and Jerusalem. Rev 17 to me, with an Islamic AC shows that he will tolerate being led by the woman on its back, but only for a period time, while its useful to him then Rev 17.16,17 will kick in. Islam won't allow the woman to reign any longer. Even Dan 2 shows me the iron (Islamic coalition Dan 8.8,22, Dan 11.4) will make the treaty of Dan 9.27 with Israel (the clay) (Ezek 4.1-3) and it will not remain united, preceding Zech 12-14, and the coming of the Lords army (us) Rev 19 to smite the feet of the rock, the time of Jacob, and Dan 2.44, It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it will itself endure forever.

 

[Randy Kluth]

I agree from one of your previous posts that Gods plan encompasses the whole of civilisation, but that most of it will centre on Israel and Jerusalem. Rev 17 to me, with an Islamic AC shows that he will tolerate being led by the woman on its back, but only for a period time, while its useful to him then Rev 17.16,17 will kick in. Islam won't allow the woman to reign any longer. Even Dan 2 shows me the iron (Islamic coalition Dan 8.8,22, Dan 11.4) will make the treaty of Dan 9.27 with Israel (the clay) (Ezek 4.1-3) and it will not remain united, preceding Zech 12-14, and the coming of the Lords army (us) Rev 19 to smite the feet of the rock, the time of Jacob, and Dan 2.44, It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it will itself endure forever.

Okay, I see where we differ. I see Dan 8 and 11 as prophecies already fulflled in history. I suppose it's possible, if I'm right, that they form an endtime pattern in whicht these things will sort of parallel previous events? But I don't know. Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[Wish-it]

Okay, I see where we differ. I see Dan 8 and 11 as prophecies already fulflled in history. I suppose it's possible, if I'm right, that they form an endtime pattern in whicht these things will sort of parallel previous events? But I don't know. Thanks for your thoughts.

I think exactly that, that the prophecies especially Dan 2, 7, 8, 11 are for us today, though they also possibly had revelation to a previous time. Is our God not so great He can given them a double purpose.
Too many read them as past history, Gods concern for us today as He was in their day, why do we concentrate on their day. Look at Dan 2. It appeared to apply in Nebuchadnezzers day, some say it applied in other days, why not today.When we look at the nations involved, Babylon (Iraq), Mede-Persia (Iran) Javan (Turkey). The same nations as today, Iraq-no longer the strong man, Iran slowly losing its grip on power, Turkey, rising as a major power in the Middle East. Following the statue perfectly... yet to come the fall of Turkey and the establishment of the four prominent horns of Dan 8.8, then the treaty between the iron and the clay (Israel) which will not remain united, any more than iron mixes with clay.
And when the statue collapses it all collapses, Dan 2.35 then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver and the gold were all broken to pieces. Why they're all involved, they're all hear at the same time as the Lord coming Dan 2.44.
Hallelujah.

 

[Randy Kluth]

I think exactly that, that the prophecies especially Dan 2, 7, 8, 11 are for us today, though they also possibly had revelation to a previous time. Is our God not so great He can given them a double purpose.
Too many read them as past history, Gods concern for us today as He was in their day, why do we concentrate on their day. Look at Dan 2. It appeared to apply in Nebuchadnezzers day, some say it applied in other days, why not today.When we look at the nations involved, Babylon (Iraq), Mede-Persia (Iran) Javan (Turkey). The same nations as today, Iraq-no longer the strong man, Iran slowly losing its grip on power, Turkey, rising as a major power in the Middle East. Following the statue perfectly... yet to come the fall of Turkey and the establishment of the four prominent horns of Dan 8.8, then the treaty between the iron and the clay (Israel) which will not remain united, any more than iron mixes with clay.
And when the statue collapses it all collapses, Dan 2.35 then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver and the gold were all broken to pieces. Why they're all involved, they're all hear at the same time as the Lord coming Dan 2.44.
Hallelujah.

Sorry, but I get confused when I try to interpret prophecies in "dual fashion." Who talks that way? I'm telling you one thing, but really meaning two things? It seems like a very poor way to interpret biblical prophecy. But I suppose it could be as such.

I don't practice "dual prophecy interpretation" for the simple reason that it makes more sense interpreting things literally, in a single application, without any need to do "dual application." Dan 8 and 11 make perfect sense as applied to Persia or Greece or Egypt.

To add some "future element" just confuses the interpretation for me. If you add in some X interpretation that applies to the future you could be adding your own words to the Bible! You could fill in whatever you want it to apply to that sounds like what the actual interpretation meant to say!

To just say we need to apply past prophecies to the future is a bit misleading to me. Yes, we should read past prophecies to derive certain spiritual and moral principles that help us today. But that is a far cry from seeing those past, fulfilled prophecies also apply as "future prophecies!" This is *God's word* and we should be very careful not to take excessive liberties with it, applying speculations as if they are God's word. Just sayin.'

That being said, there are loads of cryptic-kinds of prophecies that had application to some event in history, but also looked forward, cryptically, to the Messiah's Coming. For example, when Israel came out of Egypt, that was an historical event. But a prophet applied that to Jesus going down to Egypt as a baby and coming back out. This is, i thinnk, a more legitimate way of applying a kind of "dual prophecy."

 

[Wish-it]

Sorry, but I get confused when I try to interpret prophecies in "dual fashion." Who talks that way? I'm telling you one thing, but really meaning two things? It seems like a very poor way to interpret biblical prophecy. But I suppose it could be as such.

I don't practice "dual prophecy interpretation" for the simple reason that it makes more sense interpreting things literally, in a single application, without any need to do "dual application." Dan 8 and 11 make perfect sense as applied to Persia or Greece or Egypt.

To add some "future element" just confuses the interpretation for me. If you add in some X interpretation that applies to the future you could be adding your own words to the Bible! You could fill in whatever you want it to apply to that sounds like what the actual interpretation meant to say!

To just say we need to apply past prophecies to the future is a bit misleading to me. Yes, we should read past prophecies to derive certain spiritual and moral principles that help us today. But that is a far cry from seeing those past, fulfilled prophecies also apply as "future prophecies!" This is *God's word* and we should be very careful not to take excessive liberties with it, applying speculations as if they are God's word. Just sayin.'

That being said, there are loads of cryptic-kinds of prophecies that had application to some event in history, but also looked forward, cryptically, to the Messiah's Coming. For example, when Israel came out of Egypt, that was an historical event. But a prophet applied that to Jesus going down to Egypt as a baby and coming back out. This is, i thinnk, a more legitimate way of applying a kind of "dual prophecy."

One example could be considered is Joel 2.28-32, the same scripture was spoken by Peter at Pentecost, yet is also is talking about the Day of the Lord. A dual application.
Many see Dan 2 as being an initial indication of the empires being around the time of Alexander. And so it may be. Yet Dan 2.44 says " In the times of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed. It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it will itself never be destroyed." But Jesus had not been born at that time, how could his kingdom be set up, and also the rock hasn't struck the statue on its feet of iron and clay. So presumably is yet to come.

 

[Randy Kluth]

One example could be considered is Joel 2.28-32, the same scripture was spoken by Peter at Pentecost, yet is also is talking about the Day of the Lord. A dual application.
Many see Dan 2 as being an initial indication of the empires being around the time of Alexander. And so it may be. Yet Dan 2.44 says " In the times of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed. It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it will itself never be destroyed." But Jesus had not been born at that time, how could his kingdom be set up, and also the rock hasn't struck the statue on its feet of iron and clay. So presumably is yet to come.

I don't see Joe 2/Acts 2 as a "dual fulfillment." The "last days" actually began with the completion of Jesus' earthly ministry, which associated the NT time of Salvation with the "last days." All of this period of NT Salvation precedes the "Day of the Lord," aka Christ's 2nd Coming. It is a period characterized by the fall of temporal institutions, including human kingdoms that are in rebellion against the Lord.

Also, I agree with you that Dan 2 is all about history leading up until the endtimes. Babylon, Persia, Greece, and Rome were ancient kingdoms. And yet the Roman kingdom was viewed as continuing up until the coming of Christ's Kingdom.

I actually think that despite the fall of the city of Rome itself in 476 AD, the Roman Kingdom, East and West, has continued up until modern European history. So this is not a "dual fulfillment," but rather, an actual sense of where history has been going since Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon, and continuing up until the coming of Christ's Kingdom.to destroy the Roman Antichrist.

 

[ewq1938]

In the endtimes, the nations will gather against Jerusalem at Armageddon in Israel. T

Arm is 66 miles from Jerusalem. How can they gather at Arm to be against Jerusalem? Also, isn't this at the end of the trib and wasn't the Ac in control of Jerusalem? Why would he leave Jerusalem to be at Arm to be against Jerusalem? Why do you even mention Jerusalem regarding Arm?

 

[Douggg]

Arm is 66 miles from Jerusalem. How can they gather at Arm to be against Jerusalem? Also, isn't this at the end of the trib and wasn't the Ac in control of Jerusalem? Why would he leave Jerusalem to be at Arm to be against Jerusalem? Why do you even mention Jerusalem regarding Arm?

Armageddon is the location where the kings of the earth will gather their armies to prepare to make war on Jesus and his army (read Revelation 19:19).

They will gather and prepare for 45 days.



Revelation 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

Part of the kings of the earth strategy to keep Jesus from executing judgment on them will be to move part of their armies gathered at Armageddon down to surround Jerusalem and take half of Jerusalem captive as hostages.

Zechariah 14:
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

The beast-king will meet his end there on the temple mount in Jerusalem, the glorious holy mount between the seas. All the armies of the world still will not be able to help him from Jesus executing judgment on him. Daniel 11:45

Daniel 11:45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Arm is 66 miles from Jerusalem. How can they gather at Arm to be against Jerusalem? Also, isn't this at the end of the trib and wasn't the Ac in control of Jerusalem? Why would he leave Jerusalem to be at Arm to be against Jerusalem? Why do you even mention Jerusalem regarding Arm?

Don't really know. All I know is that Zechariah says that all nations will be gathered against Jerusalem. Maybe as armies are on the way to Jerusalem a battle takes place at Armageddon? You tell me?

 

[ewq1938]

Don't really know. All I know is that Zechariah says that all nations will be gathered against Jerusalem. Maybe as armies are on the way to Jerusalem a battle takes place at Armageddon? You tell me?

Does the trib happen before Arm?

 

[Randy Kluth]

Does the trib happen before Arm?

In my opinion, yes. But I have a different view of "the Tribulation" than most during the current phase in prophetic interpretation. I go back to Luke 21, where Jesus defined "the Great Tribulation" as a Jewish punishment beginning in 70 AD and ending at his 2nd Coming.

The Reign of Antichrist, lasting 3.5 years, precedes the mobilization of eastern armies to Armageddon in Israel. The period of mobilization could take many months following the unquestioned reign of Antichrist. My assumption is that after 1260 days nations in the world rebel against the Antichrist's authority, precipitating the Battle of Armageddon.

 

[ewq1938]

The Reign of Antichrist, lasting 3.5 years, precedes the mobilization of eastern armies to Armageddon in Israel.

And where does the AC reign from during that 3.5 year period?