God and the issue of Evil

[Hiddenthings]

This OP builds on two threads initiated by a member who adheres to fallen angel theology. The purpose of this thread is to delve into the nature of evil, its origins, and how God deals with it.

Thread one: Christadelphians, the Devil and Satan

Thread two: Contending with the devil

Many forum members (and religions), including various branches of Christianity, hold to the belief in a being, often referred to as the Devil or Satan, who is believed to be the source of the world's problems and the origin of the sin we commit. However, the Bible clearly teaches that God is all-powerful, and it has been demonstrated that angels cannot sin (as seen in previous threads). If we truly believe in these truths, it becomes impossible to accept the idea of a supernatural being in opposition to Almighty God, as doing so would imply a challenge to God’s supremacy.

The understanding of the devil and Satan is vital, as Hebrews 2:14 states that Jesus destroyed the devil through his death. Without the correct understanding of the devil, we cannot fully comprehend the nature and work of Jesus.

Hebrews 2:14 "Since therefore the children share in flesh and blood, he himself likewise partook of the same things, that through death he might destroy the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil."

In much of the world, particularly within the so-called 'Christian' world, there exists the idea that good comes from God, while evil comes from the Devil. This dualistic belief, however, is not unique to Christianity. The ancient Babylonians, for example, believed in two gods: one of good and light, and one of evil and darkness. Even Cyrus the Great, King of Persia, shared this idea. But God, in Isaiah 45:5-7, made it clear:

"I am the Lord, and there is no other; there is no God besides me... I form the light and create darkness; I make peace and create evil (or disaster in NIV); I, the Lord, do all these things."

Here, God is asserting that He is the creator of both light and darkness, peace and disaster. God is the ultimate source of what is sometimes termed as "evil" in this context, though sin, which is humanity's fault, entered the world because of man's actions (Romans 5:12).

God further declares that there is "no other God beside me," and the Hebrew word 'el' for "God" fundamentally means "strength" or "source of power." Therefore, God is affirming that there is no other source of power apart from Him. This understanding leads to the conclusion that a true believer in God cannot accept the idea of a supernatural devil or demons, as it implies a source of power outside of God’s control.

 

[Hiddenthings]

Isaiah 45:5-7, is a real problem for fallen angel believers because they must believe that God forms and shapes evil as well as their supernatural evil creature. On some level you must believe that God is incapable of controlling His Creation.

"I am the Lord, and there is no other; there is no God besides me... I form the light and create darkness; I make peace and create evil (or disaster in NIV); I, the Lord, do all these things."

Here is an example:

Look at the precision in which God brings trials upon Job. (read it carefully)

13 One day when Job’s sons and daughters were feasting and drinking wine at the oldest brother’s house, 14 a messenger came to Job and said, “The oxen were plowing and the donkeys were grazing nearby, 15 and the Sabeans attacked and made off with them. They put the servants to the sword, and I am the only one who has escaped to tell you!”

16 While he was still speaking, another messenger came and said, “The fire of God fell from the heavens and burned up the sheep and the servants, and I am the only one who has escaped to tell you!”

17 While he was still speaking, another messenger came and said, “The Chaldeans formed three raiding parties and swept down on your camels and made off with them. They put the servants to the sword, and I am the only one who has escaped to tell you!”

18 While he was still speaking, yet another messenger came and said, “Your sons and daughters were feasting and drinking wine at the oldest brother’s house, 19 when suddenly a mighty wind swept in from the desert and struck the four corners of the house. It collapsed on them and they are dead, and I am the only one who has escaped to tell you!”

The precision and timing could only communicate to Job that God was in control of these events. No-one else could organize and achieve this type of precision unless God was the initiator.

Now the Devil believer wants to place these events in the hands of a rebel angel who is said to be the arch enemy of God and yet we see them talking together

Job offers no evidence for an arch-enemy of God, and is better understood as an acquaintance of Job who was envious of his prosperity and believed that God was protecting him.

So does Job 1 speak to Isaiah 45:5-7?

The answer is a definitive yes!

 

[Hiddenthings]

The precision and timing could only communicate to Job that God was in control of these events. No-one else could organize and achieve this type of precision unless God was the initiator.

 

[Hiddenthings]

Job is a great example of where God directly brings "evil" or hardship into a persons life.

Another is Amos 3:6 states that if evil befalls a city, God is responsible for it.

It's messages like these which make it impossible for fallen angel believers to substantiate their claims.

Micah 1:12 speaks of "evil" coming from the Lord,

As we have seen, Job recognized that both good and evil come from God: "The Lord gave, and the Lord hath taken away" (Job 1:21).

Nowhere in the Book of Job is the Adversary identified or given explanation to Job - from start to finish God is in control!

Even when Job's friends comforted him, they acknowledged that the "evil" had come from God (Job 42:11).

God is the ultimate source and permitter of life's trials.

 

[Hiddenthings]

In Hebrews 12:6-11, we learn that God allows hardships to develop spiritual growth in believers.

The idea of a devil causing sin and suffering contradicts this, as the trials we face, even if difficult, ultimately lead to peace and righteousness.

Scripture also presents passages like 1 Corinthians 5:5 and 1 Timothy 1:20, where believers are "delivered to Satan" for their spiritual benefit, which would be inconceivable if Satan were purely a force of evil.

There’s a lot to consider in these early posts, and I’m sure you’ve all reflected on the contradictions that arise from believing in a fallen angel according to the Bible.

 

[Hiddenthings]

The book of Romans deals deeply with the subject of sin, its nature, its consequences, and how to overcome it. Notably, Paul says almost nothing about "the Devil" or "Satan" in this context. If an external being were responsible for human sin, surely Paul would have mentioned him at length. But he doesn’t, because Paul’s focus is on human nature, or “the flesh,” as the true source of sin.

 

[soberxp]

God said that" I hate evil so I created it."
sounds nonsense to me.

For example, the function of procreation, when this function is used in love and marriage, this is normal, when used in adultery or something else, what is the problem?

 

[Jericho]

However, the Bible clearly teaches that God is all-powerful, and it has been demonstrated that angels cannot sin (as seen in previous threads).

I addressed that assertion in the pervious thread, but you never responded.

 

[Hiddenthings]

God said that" I hate evil so I created it."
sounds nonsense to me.

For example, the function of procreation, when this function is used in love and marriage, this is normal, when used in adultery or something else, what is the problem?

He actually said He created darkness and forms evil.

It means he shapes it into whatever He wants and bring good out of it.

You get this right?

 

[soberxp]

It means he shapes it into whatever He wants and bring good out of it.

I agree and understand what that means,

But I couldn't agree more about God created the evil.

Of course, God created the tree of knowledge of good and evil, but it doesn't mean God created the evil.

It's like in heaven people only obey the good, never know what evil is, and never give birth to evil things and people.

Since the cunning of the devil brought the knowledge of good and evil where it should not have existed, true evil was born.

But it still not God who created evil.

For example, the function of procreation, when this function is used in love and marriage, this is normal, when used in adultery or something else, what is the problem?the tree of knowledge of good and evil,

You could say that God created the tree of knowledge of good and evil,

But never say that God created the evil....

 

[Hiddenthings]

Since the cunning of the devil brought the knowledge of good and evil where it should not have existed, true evil was born.

You mean the serpent, right?

 

[soberxp]

You mean the serpent, right?

Right.
I mean the serpent.

There was, there is not, and there will be.

 

[Hiddenthings]

Right.
I mean the serpent.

There was, there is not, and there will be.

It's a common problem. Jesus and Paul only ever refer to the Serpent as the Serpent only those who want it to be infer a fallen angel.

 

[Hiddenthings]

When we place these passages side by side, we see that the world, in its current sinful condition, reflects the character of the devil. Scripture tells us that everything in the world, "the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life" (1 John 2:16) is not from God. Therefore, the devil is identified with these corrupt forces at work among humanity.

These destructive tendencies are summed up and personified in what Paul calls "the old man, which is corrupt according to deceitful lusts" (Ephesians 4:22). This "old man" is the embodiment of evil, not a single individual, but a collective figure made up of the entire population of the world alienated from God. Just as the “new man” refers to the collective identity of all who are in Christ, the “old man” represents the mass of humanity living under the influence of sin.

This understanding sheds light on why friendship with the world is enmity with God (James 4:4). To align ourselves with the world is to align ourselves with the Evil One.

This has very practical implications. If we correctly identify the Evil One as the spirit and system of the world in its fallen state, we are equipped to adopt the posture of separation that Jesus both taught and modeled. But if we mistakenly look for the devil only in some mysterious or invisible being whose influence we can’t clearly discern, we risk missing the true danger. We may end up praying for deliverance from evil, while at the same time embracing the very world, and its values, from which Jesus calls us to separate.