WHAT IS THE WATER IN JOHN 3:5?

[XtraPercept]

It is the life giving water Jesus offered to the Samaritan woman at the well. It is the same water that flows as a fountain from within. The water is truth. It is the manna from heaven. It is the everlasting propitiatory sacrifice, our food and drink. It is an image of the function and method of His purpose.

Let's expound on this, because philosophy is based on how truth is defined. If you boiled the entire idea of philosophy down to its essence, it is asking in so many words what truth is. From the Greek 'philo' and 'sophy,' which essentially means the love of study. Look into sophistry to see an example of the ancient YT intellectual grifter.

The love is a passion, a desire, an intense sensation of need or want or draw or appeal. The life giving water is simply that which is true. It is the refreshment of a "truism" or a "self-evident truth." If you love truth, you will seek it through any pain or shame or fear.

Once you have sought enough, hurt enough, been humiliated enough, sweat enough, bled enough, and hated the lie enough such that you would even die enough, you might see the Truth.

He promises us this, among so many glorious certainties, that in the wholehearted pursuit of His desire we cannot fail.

 

[Fred J]

And this is why I am never going to agree with you. I'm going to agree with the rest of Christianity outside of America.

You need not agree with me as i don't you, am doing it for other silent readers who are truly born again and humble.

And as far as the question Nicodemus asked....
Most of those in this Born from Above Caste had parents who talked personally with angels and prophets. His parents had not. Those of this Caste usually lived lives of exceptional purity such as Sampson with the Nazarite vows. (Which he failed at miserably)

They also had the tendency to talk to satan and his angels who are masters of disguise.

This is why Nicodemus was asking about a whole life "do over"....he didn't know anything that made his life special...except for his recognition of Jesus's miracles being from God.

Well, Nicodemus a teacher of Israel was wrong about a whole life "do over".....

whole life "do over", Nicodemus could have consulted a beautician guru at that time.

Apparently you too add words to the scripture, when you claim you don't, isn't that a 'hypocrite'?

This is also another reason why Americans have a difficult time with this section. We are not accustomed to having Caste life here in our society.

You blow your own horn, talk for yourself, haughty and wise in your own conceit.

Usually a learned person of this world tend to do so with the unlearned of GOD from above.

Mind you, not all Americans have a difficult time, you just stretched it out a bit unwisely.

There are those Christ like and wise, who waste not time with Nicodemus alike, even here, since will be going back forth and never come to the agreement or knowledge of the truth.

For they rather fellowship with true saints of Christ and edify one another even scripturally, while we unworthy servants, even here, are merely doing our duty.

The end, i believe it's best you continue with those of your caliber, no thank you.

Shalom in the name of Lord Jesus Christ

 

[Fred J]

FYI Jesus as much as told nicodemus as a teacher he should have already known this.

But Nicodemus did not know 'this', since he's apparently not born again from above.

And Jesus left it at that and merely pointed out verse 3&5, as generally every man including Nicodemus should have attained.

Nicodemus as all the leaders of Israel are 'learned', but were 'blind guides' for Israel, according to Jesus in the New Testament. (But in the Old, the book of Ezekiel refers to them as 'hired shepherds', who fatten themselves and starve the lambs and sheep)

Ones in the time of Jesus, were unable to 'see' nor 'enter' the Kingdom of GOD. (where only one can be saved by grace and through faith the gift of GOD, and not on their own).

Even in the case of Nicodemus, Jesus' very nature kicks in, responds him like all the other leaders, when they question, apparently He question them back, as to 'rebuke' or 'correct'.

Jesus never let any one get the best out of Him, to whom the FATHER sends in faith, He responds making them and things 'wholesome'.

Shalom in the name of Jesus Christ

 

[JohnDB]

You need not agree with me as i don't you, am doing it for other silent readers who are truly born again and humble.

They also had the tendency to talk to satan and his angels who are masters of disguise.

Well, Nicodemus a teacher of Israel was wrong about a whole life "do over".....

whole life "do over", Nicodemus could have consulted a beautician guru at that time.

Apparently you too add words to the scripture, when you claim you don't, isn't that a 'hypocrite'?

You blow your own horn, talk for yourself, haughty and wise in your own conceit.

Usually a learned person of this world tend to do so with the unlearned of GOD from above.

Mind you, not all Americans have a difficult time, you just stretched it out a bit unwisely.

There are those Christ like and wise, who waste not time with Nicodemus alike, even here, since will be going back forth and never come to the agreement or knowledge of the truth.

For they rather fellowship with true saints of Christ and edify one another even scripturally, while we unworthy servants, even here, are merely doing our duty.

The end, i believe it's best you continue with those of your caliber, no thank you.

Shalom in the name of Lord Jesus Christ

I don't think that you know what that word "Shalom " means.

Just an opinion....
Not a fact.

And I have not and will not add words to scripture....I've used scripture to prove what was said, why it was said in the way that it was said. No scissors, no writing in the margins to add words or intent. And very obvious, blatant, and commonly known anthropology that some of which still happens in Israel today.

Then there's the translations into other languages in other countries....and the whole "Born again" theology is unique to the USA only....nobody else has ever heard of this anywhere else in the world.

So....after my travels I did some digging.

I once was like you in my beliefs....but I was willing to admit that I could be wrong...and discovered I WAS WRONG....and I changed and found that with the new information the passage now seems more congruent with the rest of John's Gospel, Peter's letter, Paul's writings and many other passages of scriptures.

And I also discovered that the whole "Born again" theology was a portion of an advertising campaign for proselytizing.

These days it's turned into complete sermons. Uggghhhh....

But I'm not worried....bad theologies have been going on since the beginning. 7,000 have been reserved who haven't kissed the calf of Jehoram the son of Nebat.

And today, the characters of the New Testament Gospel accounts still exist. They have ALWAYS existed but just with different names and their behaviors, where more nuanced, are exactly the same....just different names and titles handed out to everyone.

 

[Fred J]

If water in 3: 5 means water baptism Jesus should have said something like above. The fact he did not proves water does not equal baptism in water

Well He did mention, 'be born of water'.

John the Baptist is the 'best man' for the Bridegroom(Jesus), and was water baptizing the 'brides'(Jews) before His arrival.

And after His arrival, the 'Bridegroom' and 'friends'(disciples) were water baptizing the 'brides'(Jews) too.

Then when the 'Bridegroom' went to 'a far away country'(ascended into Heaven), His 'friends'(disciples) remain and were water baptizing 'brides'(Jews & Gentiles) furthermore.

Apostle Paul himself confessed, that Christ sent him not to baptize but preach the Gospel. (1 Corinthians 1:17)

Yet is written, water baptism continued through to the book of Acts, and i have repeated testifying this again and again.

Seems like there are many false teachers who're heart-hardened', or wanna be, even here, who apparently will be greatly judged. (Seeds that are sown these 'folly' are 'scattering' it)

 

[Fred J]

If you insist Fred...but this is not what this thread is about....

So you say teacher, am leaving you with this...

The correct translation for
John 3:3 is BORN FROM ABOVE.

So what the correct translation is 'BORN FROM ABOVE'?

Simple understanding like a child would be fine, 'BORN AGAIN' has been fine by the church saints having the Holy Ghost themselves since, and 'none' of them are condemned.

Other verses where this word is used:

John 3:31
He who comes from ABOVE

Only Jesus the firstborn from above and came down from above, and we apparently came from below and born again on earth.

And we never travelled above to be born from above and sent down to earth, to proclaim, we're 'born from above', unlike Jesus.

John 19:11
Unless it had been given to you from ABOVE

'Power' can come down from above, and we're not 'born from above' and come down to earth.

The Kingdom of GOD apparently came down to earth and was 'at hand' through the Son and saints.

And the Holy Ghost from above descended on a saved person here on earth as well, suites the 'born again' on earth.

Therefore only when the 'intervention of above' fully came down to earth, and divinely the 'born again' takes place on earth.

Henceforth, a born again new creature/creation the 'spirit-man' here on earth, can proclaim in a way he is also 'born from above'.

Therefore what difference does it make, whether the translation is 'born from above' or 'born again'?

As i've testified, based on the context of the scripture, both are referring to 'spiritual birth', whether came from 'above' and happened 'below'.

On the other hand in the time of Jesus, Nicodemus is neither 'born from above' nor 'born again', since he's unable to 'see' and 'enter' the Kingdom of GOD.

Same i was once 'blind' and unable to 'see' the Kingdom of GOD in content and by context in the Holy Bible.

But once i became transformed, 'born again' or 'born from above' here on earth in the same body, now am able to 'see' the Kingdom of GOD in 'full color'.

And furthermore responded in faith, be born of water baptism and of the Holy Ghost baptism becoming a 'child of GOD'.

Hence like the prodigal son yet physically present on earth have returned, merely spiritually and scripturally in faith inwardly one discerns.

That one have just merely spiritually 'entered' the gate into the Kingdom of the FATHER in Heaven.

Therefore in my lifetime here on earth, spiritually am to take the 'narrow path' ahead of me.

Where the way ahead to pass through is hard and difficult to follow, just to make it to GOD's house.

Besides to workout one's salvation in fear and trembling, why like clueless 'kids', stand on one foot just to ensure it should be 'born from above' and not 'born again?

Due to that so called 'error' to some, has not made the 'foundation of the scripture to collapse', nor one's 'faith is in vain' all along, period

i thought you were better than that, looks like you gotta add to your faith knowledge from above, move from 'milk' to 'meat', or be left behind.

May GOD in Jesus name forbid and help.

2 Timothy 3:
7. Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Shalom in the name of Adonai Yeshua

 

[JohnDB]

So you say teacher, am leaving you with this...

So what the correct translation is 'BORN FROM ABOVE'?

Simple understanding like a child would be fine, 'BORN AGAIN' has been fine by the church saints having the Holy Ghost themselves since, and 'none' of them are condemned.

Only Jesus the firstborn from above and came down from above, and we apparently came from below and born again on earth.

And we never travelled above to be born from above and sent down to earth, to proclaim, we're 'born from above', unlike Jesus.

'Power' can come down from above, and we're not 'born from above' and come down to earth.

The Kingdom of GOD apparently came down to earth and was 'at hand' through the Son and saints.

And the Holy Ghost from above descended on a saved person here on earth as well, suites the 'born again' on earth.

Therefore only when the 'intervention of above' fully came down to earth, and divinely the 'born again' takes place on earth.

Henceforth, a born again new creature/creation the 'spirit-man' here on earth, can proclaim in a way he is also 'born from above'.

Therefore what difference does it make, whether the translation is 'born from above' or 'born again'?

As i've testified, based on the context of the scripture, both are referring to 'spiritual birth', whether came from 'above' and happened 'below'.

On the other hand in the time of Jesus, Nicodemus is neither 'born from above' nor 'born again', since he's unable to 'see' and 'enter' the Kingdom of GOD.

Same i was once 'blind' and unable to 'see' the Kingdom of GOD in content and by context in the Holy Bible.

But once i became transformed, 'born again' or 'born from above' here on earth in the same body, now am able to 'see' the Kingdom of GOD in 'full color'.

And furthermore responded in faith, be born of water baptism and of the Holy Ghost baptism becoming a 'child of GOD'.

Hence like the prodigal son yet physically present on earth have returned, merely spiritually and scripturally in faith inwardly one discerns.

That one have just merely spiritually 'entered' the gate into the Kingdom of the FATHER in Heaven.

Therefore in my lifetime here on earth, spiritually am to take the 'narrow path' ahead of me.

Where the way ahead to pass through is hard and difficult to follow, just to make it to GOD's house.

Besides to workout one's salvation in fear and trembling, why like clueless 'kids', stand on one foot just to ensure it should be 'born from above' and not 'born again?

Due to that so called 'error' to some, has not made the 'foundation of the scripture to collapse', nor one's 'faith is in vain' all along, period

i thought you were better than that, looks like you gotta add to your faith knowledge from above, move from 'milk' to 'meat', or be left behind.

May GOD in Jesus name forbid and help.

2 Timothy 3:
7. Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Shalom in the name of Adonai Yeshua

You keep asking but are uninterested in hearing. So you willingly refuse to hear. But you claim that we refuse to hear the exact same thing in multiple pulpits in many denomination churches across America.

What Grace and I have been saying is something different. It's what is taught outside of America.

And it goes to the pre-ordination of our immortal souls but more importantly to God's timelessness and omniscience. God knew us before we were born and has ordained tasks for us to perform once we were born.

Some people will hear and see and some will not. It is daughter against their own mother and sons against their father; a person's enemies will come from their own house.

(As Jesus discussed in Matthew 13)

Blessed are the Holy of heart for they shall see God.

 

[Gary Mac]

It is the life giving water Jesus offered to the Samaritan woman at the well. It is the same water that flows as a fountain from within. The water is truth. It is the manna from heaven. It is the everlasting propitiatory sacrifice, our food and drink. It is an image of the function and method of His purpose.

Let's expound on this, because philosophy is based on how truth is defined. If you boiled the entire idea of philosophy down to its essence, it is asking in so many words what truth is. From the Greek 'philo' and 'sophy,' which essentially means the love of study. Look into sophistry to see an example of the ancient YT intellectual grifter.

The love is a passion, a desire, an intense sensation of need or want or draw or appeal. The life giving water is simply that which is true. It is the refreshment of a "truism" or a "self-evident truth." If you love truth, you will seek it through any pain or shame or fear.

Once you have sought enough, hurt enough, been humiliated enough, sweat enough, bled enough, and hated the lie enough such that you would even die enough, you might see the Truth.

He promises us this, among so many glorious certainties, that in the wholehearted pursuit of His desire we cannot fail.

Water is interesting in that it give life, but when one looks at its spiritual connotations it is more then jut life, it is related to power. When we have this mental picture of a man walking on water, which we all know is impossible and look at the spiritual connotation in it, we see a man walking on the eruptions that storms of life create in it. Disrupting the serenity of calm waters challenging the very intent.

Even in the story of troubling the calm water with a staff so the sheep would drink has a message of self awareness. When a sheep goes to water and see his own reflection he will not drink, so the shepherd takes his staff and ripples the water to distort the sheeps own image. That is exactly the message that Jesus brought. He always was very clear in that when he made these remarks.

John 12:49: For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

John 12:44-45. who believes in me, does not believe in me but in Him who sent me. He who sees me sees Him who sent me.

John 7:16. Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.

John 5 :17 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

John 5:19. “Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.”

John 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

John 17:2-21, the kingdom of God doesnt come withj observation, it is withn you

John 16:23. And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.

John 14:16. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Matt 11:25. At that time Jesus declared, “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because You have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.

John 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one.

And anytime God is revealed in man God come out from behind those clouds that has Him hidden from mans spiritual sight. Clouds are water.

The woman at the well, or turning water to wine, or parting a sea and drawing a whole army of aggressors, and that list goes on. It is all about the spiritual connotations in those stories, metaphors for who we are supposed to be where no storm can ripple the waters to extinction, where we walk on those storms with a fervent mind that is Gods own mind, or Spirit, the mind of, that He creates man to be in His same Spiritual image.

Jesus at the river Jordan went into that troubled water seeking refuge from the laws of the Jews that he was rabbi of even from a young age and what troubled him was those laws of man to regulate their god. He came out of what troubled him and it wasnt the water that cleansed him from those laws, it was knowledge that he gained from God Himself open in him all of His heaven instead of the restrictions of the laws of man for a god, and was freed from the law of. He went into the water a son of god, and came out of the water a wet son of God, the other God that cleansed his mind from the laws where all the laws was fulfilled in that man and he became a different person with a different mentality, born again.

After that event in his renewing of his mind from the God of Love, Jesus made the statement that ye must be born again with that same renewing of our mind that he received from God Himself in Matt 3:16.

How many has actually encountered the very same God as Jesus did in Matt 3;16 that they may walk as he walked in His same light having the mind of the creator of it as Jesus became, Adam became in Gen 3:22, as Abraham became, Moses became, Mary became, 120 in an upper room, all of these encountered the very same Spirit of God as Jesus did in Matt 3:16 and we all today encounter that same knowledge who has set aside their own image for a god, rippled that water so they do not see their own reflection but drink from the one they cannot see?

Does that same river flow out from you who flowed out from Jesus as rivers of living waters? It is supposed to! Walk as He walks in His same light as Jesus did, pick up that cross and continue on where Jesus left off?

How many actually follows the ways of Jesus? It is very clear that few who find His ways. Most has created their gods in their image they can control and regulate instead of being like Him as He commands of us to be ye therefore perfect even as your Father ion haven is perfect. Matt 5:48. Ask yourself do you really follow the ways of Jesus to walk as he did in the Father of it?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

This is where a smidgen of knowledge of Hebrew has its perks.

Torah....God's Law....sometimes translated as "Book of the Law" as commonly seen in Joshua 1:8. But in original Hebrew it says "Torah"....meaning the exact same thing.

What we don't see or customarily know is that in Hebrew there is a word meaning ceremonially clean. (What handwashing was supposed to provide but a Mikveh did for the priests before they put on priestly robes)
Tohörah is the word.
Basically it's the word Torah but with a little breath in the middle of it. (Breath/wind also an equivalent to Spirit)

The two words together made a once common "tongue twister" learned in gradeschool...about 2,000 years ago in Ancient Israel by children.

But it basically was inferring that knowing God's word will make you spiritually clean.

If you look at when Moses consecrated the priests and Arron as high priest. You see the symboligy

They were washed in the Jordan. Literally the first baptism

The sacrifice was given

Finally they were anointed with oil (HS)

This is literally how we are saved. Through the sacrifice and us being baptized into Christ completed by the anointing of the spirit.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

LOL
Someone on another Forum just stated that Jesus died to be our Savior
NOT so that we could change!

It's just too much EG.

The whole point of knowing Jesus is so that we CAN change!

so you do not believe Jesus died so you can be saved.

and through this salvation. God is now free to change us, and he will?

Knowing Jesus.. Are you still not refusing to give yourself up so God can change you? If knowing Jesus is all that is required. it should be quite easy..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

LOL
Because those of 2 thousand years ago were taught by THE APOSTLES!!

As written in the BIBLE

The Apostles were taught by JESUS!!

Yes. and there words are there in the bobe for ALL TO SEE

so why do you look at history. when you have the word in your hands?

This means nothing to you?
I used to agree...until I started to read.

Started to read what?

the bible? Or history books written by men not inspired by God who claimed they were taught by the apostles?

 

[JohnDB]

If you look at when Moses consecrated the priests and Arron as high priest. You see the symboligy

They were washed in the Jordan. Literally the first baptism

The sacrifice was given

Finally they were anointed with oil (HS)

This is literally how we are saved. Through the sacrifice and us being baptized into Christ completed by the anointing of the spirit.

Ummmm....I'm not understanding of how you can say that some sort of baptism is a requirement for salvation.

This passage clearly indicates that Jesus/God knew Nicodemus 600-700 years before Nicodemus was born plus had a task for Nicodemus to perform. That's literally the definition of "Born from Above".

Nicodemus didn't need to be baptized.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Those who do NOT believe, do NOT obey.

exactly.

And they are not saved, because they do not believe (not because they do not obey)

they do not obey, as a result of their condemned state. they can not love, because they have yet to experience the love of God.

In Greek,,,,to disbelieve means to disobey.

YOU should focus on what it means to disobey EG.

I have

when will you?

It means the person is not saved.

This is needed for salvation.

1. Belief in God.
2. Obedience to God.

See.
Easy.

Yes. But as many as have recieved him (obey) to them he gave the right.

Have you done this?

We can't do anything without the power of God.
Why bring up this strawman?

Because you and others are claiming we must obey all these commands by our own power. or God will cast us out.

Who ever said otherwise??

WORKS are added to belief.

No

Works are a result of faith. Not added

when you add works as a requirement for salvation, you counteract grace. and make it null and void.

Paul is clear..

Rom 11: 6 And IF BY GRACE, THAN IT IS NO LONGER OF WORKS, ; otherwise GRACE IS NO LONGER GRACE.
But IF IT IS OF WORKS, THEN IT IS NO LONGER OF GRACE. OTHERWISE WORK IS NO LONGER WORK

AS i HAVE SAID NUMEROUS TIME, GRACE + WORKS = WORKS.. GRACE AND WORKS CAN NOT MIX IN THE AREA OF BEING OR KEEPING SALVATION

Jesus spoke about works.....
I'm just posting what Jesus said.

Your not. Because Jesus never taught about works as a means of salvation. He called those who did whitewashed tombs.. etc etc..

Take heed.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Ummmm....I'm not understanding of how you can say that some sort of baptism is a requirement for salvation.

John 6. Or do you not know you were baptized into Christ. and his death.

Gal - we were baptized into Christ

1 Cor 12. We were baptized into his body.

the baptism of the Holy Spirit is what is symbolized by the washing in the river Jordan (and also symbolized by our water baptism)

This passage clearly indicates that Jesus/God knew Nicodemus 600-700 years before Nicodemus was born plus had a task for Nicodemus to perform. That's literally the definition of "Born from Above".

Nicodemus didn't need to be baptized.

I never said he did now did I.

 

[JohnDB]

John 6. Or do you not know you were baptized into Christ. and his death.

Gal - we were baptized into Christ

1 Cor 12. We were baptized into his body.

the baptism of the Holy Spirit is what is symbolized by the washing in the river Jordan (and also symbolized by our water baptism)

I never said he did now did I.

That WAS confusing....when you mix Biblical metaphors with modern vernacular it WILL cause a lot of confusion....and I wish to be clear because today Biblical Hermeneutics are not what they once were.

Also, we are conversing with English speaking people from all over the planet where English is not their primary language.

Meaning a bit of extra work of explaining ourselves helps them understand what we are saying. They may not have a full computer available to them but they will have access to a cell phone....and will read what we are saying to each other.

I'm somewhat horrible as I will allude to scriptures when explaining but not give book, chapter and verse of the scriptures I'm alluding to.

 

[Fred J]

You keep asking but are uninterested in hearing. So you willingly refuse to hear. But you claim that we refuse to hear the exact same thing in multiple pulpits in many denomination churches across America.

What Grace and I have been saying is something different. It's what is taught outside of America.

And it goes to the pre-ordination of our immortal souls but more importantly to God's timelessness and omniscience. God knew us before we were born and has ordained tasks for us to perform once we were born.

Some people will hear and see and some will not. It is daughter against their own mother and sons against their father; a person's enemies will come from their own house.

(As Jesus discussed in Matthew 13)

Blessed are the Holy of heart for they shall see God.

Am i missing something here, are you GodsGrace, or both of you have something going on?

This is because i happen to notice your 'likes' in every one of her posts, and now you're answering her letters?

Anyway would appreciate you get it, that i disagree with your version all the way, since you're not listening too.

At least GodsGrace listens and gives me the benefit of the doubt and we have some dialogue, to agree or disagree.

But it's okay am not serving the Kingdom of GOD in Jesus name, to entertain 'bullies' and please 'itching ears'.

i can be a little off sometimes, am sorry, nevertheless, am also aware scripturally who taught me, and that true born again believer need no teacher the teach them. (1John2:27)

We don't cherry pick scriptures to defend, but at the right time the scripture and wisdom will be given to us to defend our standing in Christ. (Mark 13:11)

i may be sloppy in my walk with Christ, and am to work on it, but am not without knowledge about the Holy Bible.

Is given to us in discipleship by the our 'Good Shepherd', so that we'll hear His voice and follow Him.

And not stranger's, naturally we'll run away from, prevention from getting beguiled, bewitched and fallen in a ditch.

Glory be alone to GOD the FATHER of our Lord Jesus Christ, and am just HIS ordinary earthen vessel. Amen.

Many 'shortsighted' believers tend to be 'bullies', 'itching hearers' and 'ever seeking pleasurable teachers', example 'hired shepherd'.

Due to their circumstances they're unable to distinguish between the true and false teachers or man of GOD testifying.

Sadly they're unaware that the prophecy of Ezekiel has come to pass in the Gospel and supposedly should've been accomplished in them.

In the Old Testament, GOD appointed 'hired shepherd', to shepherd HIS lambs and sheep. (and it was like that until the coming of the Messiah Jesus)

What was the complaint of GOD, and what was HIS solution HE planned in the future, that HE poured out to Ezekiel that day?

Messiah Jesus was the Word of GOD the FATHER who spoke to Ezekiel that day, and the same Word was made flesh in the Gospel.

And in the Gospel, GOD is that 'Good Shepherd' as promised, HIMSELF will shepherd HIS lambs and sheep from then on.

No longer HE requires 'hired shepherd' again, to eradicate in the Gospel HE 'rebuked' and 'corrected' them 'harshly' desiring them to repent.

Among the many episodes in the Gospel, Matthew chapter 23, is a thorough one to get their attention and come to senses.

Since they're 'puffed up in knowledge', they hardened their hearts, and the more they device plans to have GOD killed. (For the record, they did not murder GOD but handed HIM over to the Gentile Romans to do the job. Moreover, partial blindness was also upon them to hand GOD over)

Nevertheless, only through that ordeal GOD victoriously purged the sins of the world forever, that is unless they believe.

Am part of the lambs and sheep and GOD in Jesus name is our 'Good Shepherd', and no longer require 'hired shepherds' again.

Shalom in the name of Jesus Christ

 

[Fred J]

I don't think that you know what that word "Shalom " means.

Just an opinion....
Not a fact.

And I have not and will not add words to scripture....I've used scripture to prove what was said, why it was said in the way that it was said. No scissors, no writing in the margins to add words or intent. And very obvious, blatant, and commonly known anthropology that some of which still happens in Israel today.

Then there's the translations into other languages in other countries....and the whole "Born again" theology is unique to the USA only....nobody else has ever heard of this anywhere else in the world.

So....after my travels I did some digging.

I once was like you in my beliefs....but I was willing to admit that I could be wrong...and discovered I WAS WRONG....and I changed and found that with the new information the passage now seems more congruent with the rest of John's Gospel, Peter's letter, Paul's writings and many other passages of scriptures.

And I also discovered that the whole "Born again" theology was a portion of an advertising campaign for proselytizing.

These days it's turned into complete sermons. Uggghhhh....

But I'm not worried....bad theologies have been going on since the beginning. 7,000 have been reserved who haven't kissed the calf of Jehoram the son of Nebat.

And today, the characters of the New Testament Gospel accounts still exist. They have ALWAYS existed but just with different names and their behaviors, where more nuanced, are exactly the same....just different names and titles handed out to everyone.

For the record, obviously translation issues overtime in English, words can differ, even stretched, from time to time and over the years.

GOD is 'omniscience', 'omnipotent' and 'omnipresent', therefore one can do the math, figuratively speaking.

It has taken place under HIS very knowledge to know, very power to change and very presence to happen, and HE did nothing about it.

HE's our Good Shepherd, the Holy Bible is HIS, given to us lambs and sheep, and that's where we found Him and learnt HIS voice to follow. (2Timothy3:16&17)

And the Holy Ghost in us is the 'Helper' and 'Comforter', who'll lead us into the full truth, will tell us about things to happen and what of Christ He'll declare to us.

Therefore mind you, it has never caused the foundation of the Holy Bible in context or in sound doctrine to 'collapse'.

Neither have caused all along our father's or our faith to have been in vain, and furthermore GOD is to be 'mocked'.

The unstable and the unlearned among us who 'wrest' the sound doctrine and scripture in context to their destruction, the 'stranger' and 'troublemaker'.

And the unbelievers have picked on this 'wrest', calling out the discrepancy of the Holy Bible. and the GOD of it's making is 'mocked'.

You sound to us like that 'stranger' and 'troublemaker', JohnDB, stop while you can or you'll be 'shipwrecked'.

 

[JohnDB]

For the record, obviously translation issues overtime in English, words can differ, even stretched, from time to time and over the years.

GOD is 'omniscience', 'omnipotent' and 'omnipresent', therefore one can do the math, figuratively speaking.

It has taken place under HIS very knowledge to know, very power to change and very presence to happen, and HE did nothing about it.

HE's our Good Shepherd, the Holy Bible is HIS, given to us lambs and sheep, and that's where we found Him and learnt HIS voice to follow. (2Timothy3:16&17)

And the Holy Ghost in us is the 'Helper' and 'Comforter', who'll lead us into the full truth, will tell us about things to happen and what of Christ He'll declare to us.

Therefore mind you, it has never caused the foundation of the Holy Bible in context or in sound doctrine to 'collapse'.

Neither have caused all along our father's or our faith to have been in vain, and furthermore GOD is to be 'mocked'.

The unstable and the unlearned among us who 'wrest' the sound doctrine and scripture in context to their destruction, the 'stranger' and 'troublemaker'.

And the unbelievers have picked on this 'wrest', calling out the discrepancy of the Holy Bible. and the GOD of it's making is 'mocked'.

You sound to us like that 'stranger' and 'troublemaker', JohnDB, stop while you can or you'll be 'shipwrecked'.

GodsGrace and I have been friends for decades. She has cheered for me and I for her. She has extensive knowledge of the Church Fathers while I have extensive knowledge of hermeneutics both Old and New Testament which requires extensive knowledge of the sciences....but the Holy Spirit has been extra kind and GENEROUS to me with wisdom to understand what it all means when put together.

Which is what we, together have been patiently trying to explain this passage. And the various metaphors Jesus uses.

And yet, you insist upon the teachings of men from pulpits. (Which has been incorrect for 100 years but ONLY in America)

We have explained the resulting theologies. The extreme importance of why this passage needs to be understood correctly.

And considering that it's the "red letters" it's probably worth knowing on a fundamental level. You have yet to seriously consider what I have been explaining.

Paul is the ONLY person in scripture to use the term "Born anew" Jesus did not.

John's Gospel is the theology gospel. Which is why it is placed last among the 4 gospel accounts. It's not a "what happened" gospel as much as "what it means" gospel account. John wrote it to dispel every tenant of the Gnostics. Gnosticism exists today and is flourishing to the point of ridiculousness....
which is why we need accurate hermeneutics today. Which is what I have provided you with.

We both have an extreme reverence of scripture. Because we both have an extreme fear/respect for God. GodsGrace is often more "polite" than me. She is always kind when I'm more of a bulldog. (Blunt and to the point....all the finesse of a bowling ball)

Which is why I'm going to request that you just once seriously consider the theology we have put out there.

God knew you long before you were even born and knew you so much that He assigned tasks for you to perform. That this is the place in scripture that Jesus point blank explains it and says it.
AND
That the ability to see God and his work is only capable by those who are God's kids chosen a LONG time ago.

 

[Fred J]

GodsGrace and I have been friends for decades. She has cheered for me and I for her. She has extensive knowledge of the Church Fathers while I have extensive knowledge of hermeneutics both Old and New Testament which requires extensive knowledge of the sciences....but the Holy Spirit has been extra kind and GENEROUS to me with wisdom to understand what it all means when put together.

Which is what we, together have been patiently trying to explain this passage. And the various metaphors Jesus uses.

And yet, you insist upon the teachings of men from pulpits. (Which has been incorrect for 100 years but ONLY in America)

We have explained the resulting theologies. The extreme importance of why this passage needs to be understood correctly.

And considering that it's the "red letters" it's probably worth knowing on a fundamental level. You have yet to seriously consider what I have been explaining.

Paul is the ONLY person in scripture to use the term "Born anew" Jesus did not.

John's Gospel is the theology gospel. Which is why it is placed last among the 4 gospel accounts. It's not a "what happened" gospel as much as "what it means" gospel account. John wrote it to dispel every tenant of the Gnostics. Gnosticism exists today and is flourishing to the point of ridiculousness....
which is why we need accurate hermeneutics today. Which is what I have provided you with.

We both have an extreme reverence of scripture. Because we both have an extreme fear/respect for God. GodsGrace is often more "polite" than me. She is always kind when I'm more of a bulldog. (Blunt and to the point....all the finesse of a bowling ball)

Which is why I'm going to request that you just once seriously consider the theology we have put out there.

God knew you long before you were even born and knew you so much that He assigned tasks for you to perform. That this is the place in scripture that Jesus point blank explains it and says it.
AND
That the ability to see God and his work is only capable by those who are God's kids chosen a LONG time ago.

No thank you.

All you say about me is 'untrue' and 'false', it's your say and not mine.

You also don't read mine and take under consideration, so let's leave it as it is.

 

[JohnDB]

No thank you.

All you say about me is 'untrue' and 'false', it's your say and not mine.

You also don't read mine and take under consideration, so let's leave it as it is.

If it's so untrue....then why have you, by choice, not read or analyzed what I've said. That's all I've said about you. I'm not exactly sure how it's so false.

I have read yours. It's basically SOP of pulpit teachings.

But you have yet to understand or try to understand anything we have said.