If Satan is the devil, is God responsible for all evil?

[pandaflower]

Nope. The devil is who sinned and brought in the concept of evil when he first rebelled against God in coveting God's Throne in the 'old world'.

That is why Hebrews 2:14 shows that the power of death has been assigned to the devil.

Isaiah 45:7 is about how God will USE the evil Satan created for this present 2nd world earth age. Doesn't mean God was its original author. That's why in Isaiah 10 God calls "the Assyrian" the "rod of Mine anger".

The children of darkness are the ones who try to claim that God created evil literally.

It's not the devil Isaiah 45 is referring to.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Most here are trying to use man's philosophical type thinking to explain the matter, which will not work.

If brethen do not Biblically understand what it was that Lucifer did in that 'old world' when he first rebelled in coveting God's Throne, then they will not understand how evil and death entered in. The main reason this is so is because with God's parable in Ezekiel 28 using the "king of Tyrus" as a TYPE for Lucifer in the old world, it reveals that God originally created Lucifer "perfect in his ways".

Lucifer was created a covering cherub, meaning his job was one of those winged creatures shown on the Ark of the Covenant model that was made to guard God's Throne (Ezekiel 28:14-15). Lucifer instead rebelled, and wanted to be GOD, thus coveting God's Throne for himself. That was the real first original sin that happened, as Apostle John even said that the devil sinned from the beginning (1 John 3:8).

Now the way 'how' Lucifer could sin, is about the idea of God having given the angels also the power of free will choice, and did not make the angels as robots. Thus 1/3 of the angels also sided with Lucifer in that old world and rebelled with him per Rev.12:3-4.

When you point to that “old world” I think of
Galatians 1:3-4 Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ, [4] Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:

It doesn’t say according to the will of men. It says “according to the Will of God and our Father”. And I also don’t get what you are referring to as “that old world”. I see that “old world” as that “old world” in by whom that “old world” is crucified unto me (Saul), and I (Saul) unto the world. For in Christ Jesus …Galatians 6:14-15 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world. [15] For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision avails any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. (Paul). Not that it doesn’t speak to us also but it helps (Imo) to see the difference in Saul/Paul who spoke of that old world which was crucified, and what it pertains to.

Ephesians 1:21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this (Old) world(passing away), but also in that (New World) which is to come:

Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
That shows the “old world” of spiritual wickedness(seated) in high places…exalting itself above the knowledge of God.

Hebrews 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
In regards to the “powers” of the world to come, having tasted of the kindness of the Lord: 2 Timothy 1:7 Lexicon: For God has not given us a spirit of timidity, but of power and love and discipline.

I’m not sure what you consider “that old world”. To me it’s a mindset. Interesting he was appointed a covering cherub
1 Corinthians 11:15-17 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering. [16] But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God. [17] Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that you come together not for the better, but for the worse.
1 Peter 2:16 Act as free people, and do not use your freedom as a covering for evil, but use it as bond-servants of God. —for the removal of the cloak of maliciousness
A whole study could be done on appointed as a covering. I’m sure it would lead into taking off the “old” ways of that “old world” “covering”…
And putting on the New of that (world) which is come; which fruits are by Jesus Christ. Be clothed in…? Luke 20:34-36 And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage: [35] But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: [36] Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

Love: 1 Timothy 6:8 If we have food and covering, with these we shall be content.
Being not covered in own righteousness(not my will), but covered by the righteousness of God(His Will be done). <what Paul hoped for.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

A whole study could be done on appointed as a covering. I’m sure it would lead into taking off the “old” ways of that “old world” “covering”…

Appointed as a covering ….I still think God is the best psychologist and counselor. his knowledge of what mankind uses to cover himself with that holds mankind in deception. The plague of mankind…fear of what men will do unto you.

Hiding ourself by money. Money talks. If you have wealth in this world then you are persuaded you are somebody. Yet money hides a weakness that needs healed. Watch families get broken up and swallowed up by greed when someone dies and there is an inheritance to fight over. It will consume them.

Pride, arrogance…what does it cover? A need and a weakness that is not yet strengthened and healed by God.

We tell ourself lies to shield our truth. Too afraid for others to see our truth, for then we are exposed(naked) to being less (lower)than they are. There are countless ways we hold our own self in bondage of the fear of coming clean. And we teach other to be fearful of coming clean. Appointed as covering though…”that which covers” ..what covering do we hide under appointed as it is unto death?

Knowledge…how do we hide ourselves under this great wisdom of men…as philosophers, theologians, scientists…explainers of even the blood lines and history and paint our pictures of satan and wars and fables and vain imaginations! Building ourselves up in head knowledge, yet absent of heart knowledge

 

[pandaflower]

I think what is often missed in this type discussion is the immensity of the Creator.

Nothing is of or from any source but the Creator.

 

[Behold]

I think what is often missed in this type discussion is the immensity of the Creator.

Nothing is of or from any source but the Creator.

God didnt create the evil that people enjoy doing.....all the way from Adam, till tomorrow.

 

[Hiddenthings]

Nope. The devil is who sinned and brought in the concept of evil when he first rebelled against God in coveting God's Throne in the 'old world'.

This is the lacking evidence - the Bible is clear who and what sinned from the beginning!

 

[Davy]

It's ongoing

Afraid not. The Revelation 12:7 forward Scripture is still yet to happen. Reason is because associated with that specific casting out are those who overcome by the Blood of Jesus Christ. So to try and claim that Scripture was about Satan's original fall means to wrongly assume that Jesus' 1st coming had happened back at Satan's original fall, and that also was when Jesus was crucified; but that idea is ludicrous and goes against the written Bible Scripture. It's an idea that only those who don't know their Bible timelines very well would come up with.

 

[Davy]

It's not the devil Isaiah 45 is referring to.

Your statement is irrelevant, simply because when God said Isaiah 45:7 it was for during this PRESENT WORLD TIME, after... Satan had already rebelled.

Isaiah 10 is one place where God uses the title of the flesh king of Assyria as a TYPE for Satan, calling Satan "the Assyrian", and "the rod of Mine anger". We know God uses "the Assyrian" as a type because of Isaiah 30:31-33 where He is referring to the devil using that title "the Assyrian" that Tophet has been prepared for him of old. Tophet is the symbolic perpetual burning garbage pit outside Jerusalem that Jesus used to refer to the "lake of fire", and is one of the KJV translations to the "hell" (see Gehena, Tophet = valley of Hinnom).

 

[Hiddenthings]

Your statement is irrelevant, simply because when God said Isaiah 45:7 it was for during this PRESENT WORLD TIME, after... Satan had already rebelled.

Isaiah 10 is one place where God uses the title of the flesh king of Assyria as a TYPE for Satan, calling Satan "the Assyrian", and "the rod of Mine anger". We know God uses "the Assyrian" as a type because of Isaiah 30:31-33 where He is referring to the devil using that title "the Assyrian" that Tophet has been prepared for him of old. Tophet is the symbolic perpetual burning garbage pit outside Jerusalem that Jesus used to refer to the "lake of fire", and is one of the KJV translations to the "hell" (see Gehena, Tophet = valley of Hinnom).

The concept is the "great gulf" in the Bible has led many Christians to create an origin story that isn't actually detailed in Scripture. The timing of such an event is never specified, nor is the identity of the supposed being clearly revealed, leaving the narrative largely built on assumption and tradition rather than explicit biblical teaching.

It has also distorted and concealed the true meaning of the Apocalypse, perhaps its greatest offense! leaving sincere Christians in the dark about the real enemy of God.

 

[Davy]

When you point to that “old world” I think of
Galatians 1:3-4 Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ, [4] Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:

It doesn’t say according to the will of men. It says “according to the Will of God and our Father”. And I also don’t get what you are referring to as “that old world”. I see that “old world” as that “old world” in by whom that “old world” is crucified unto me (Saul), and I (Saul) unto the world. For in Christ Jesus …Galatians 6:14-15 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world. [15] For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision avails any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. (Paul). Not that it doesn’t speak to us also but it helps (Imo) to see the difference in Saul/Paul who spoke of that old world which was crucified, and what it pertains to.

...

Study about that 'old world' per God's written Word you are going to have to get on your own asking God's help through disciplined Bible study. Me or one of the best Bible scholars can try and show it to you per the Scriptures, but unless you ask God's help to understand per His Word, you will still not grasp it. Many brethren are completely ignorant about it.

I did a Bible study paper on it many years ago, and mentioned it to some of the engineers I worked with that I knew were Christians. One guy asked for a copy and I gave it to him, as he said he was a student of science, but was still wondering about the earth's fossil record, etc. He didn't mention anything about my Bible study until about two years later.

He came to me at my work, excited to tell me, because at his Christian Church they had a Bible teacher of the Hebrew and Greek, a scholar, and that's all he did was to teach Bible. He taught it to the congregation one day. So I asked him, did you look around at the folks there and did they appear to understand? He said most kind of had like question marks on their faces. So he said he nudged his wife next him, and asked her if she understood what the guy was teaching, and she said she didn't have a clue.

The engineer told me he had been a heavy student of science, but was having problems reconciling his belief as a Christian about the creation being only 6,000 years old.

You can go to YouTube and find quite a few Bible scholars that teach about it, just type in something like 'old creationism'.

So... in case you still haven't understood what I've said above, when I say 'old world', it means God's ORIGINAL CREATION at Genesis 1:1 in the "beginning". It is not about some spiritual connotation. It is about a LITERAL previous time of God's creation PRIOR to Lucifer's original fall and rebellion, long before Adam and Eve and this present world.

Most Churches are not going to teach about it, because it is too controversial. When my younger son was born, I met a pastor at the hospital whose daughter was in the hospital, so I asked him about that 'old world', and whether or not he taught about it to his congregation. He looked me sternly in the face and said no man showed it to him, but that God showed it to him, and he said that twice to me. And he answered no, he did not teach it because only about 25% of the congregation would understand. I then asked him about that 25%, don't they deserve to have it? He wouldn't answer that.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

You can go to YouTube and find quite a few Bible scholars that teach about it, just type in something like 'old creationism'.

So... in case you still haven't understood what I've said above, when I say 'old world', it means God's ORIGINAL CREATION at Genesis 1:1 in the "beginning". It is not about some spiritual connotation. It is about a LITERAL previous time of God's creation PRIOR to Lucifer's original fall and rebellion, long before Adam and Eve and this present world.

Can you post a video that properly presents what you are teaching?

 

[Toro55]

Its a revolt in heaven by a group of Angels we are told its a war in heaven over humans receiving eternal life. Satan who was a Angel in the garden of Eden brought humanity down with original sin. Jesus came to bring eternal life back to humanity in the sacrifice he made. There was a second revolt too the watchers another group of Angels that turned from God.You can read about them in the Books of Enoch.This is all about the first group trying to keep humanity from heaven.Punishment is there but not until the end all will be thrown into the lake of fire.

Jesus brought peace in heaven when he ascended vanquishing Satan from heaven forever the bible tell you Satan lamented day and night to God how humanity is unfit for heaven and evil until Jesus entered heaven - the first soul to enter ending the war in heaven the war is on earth and its for souls now.Humanity now has a place in heaven.All those who appose will be thrown into the lake of fire Angels including their followers and those who practice evil on earth.Judgment is coming and all who are guilty will pay the price Angels and humans.So God has and will do something about it justice will be served just not our way.

Satan became jealous of Gods love for Adam and that's where it started .

 

[pandaflower]

Did you ever think you'd meet so many Christians who insist Satan isn't real?

 

[Jericho]

Satan, evil, and the suffering it produces are unfortunate byproducts of free will. There will always be those who choose to rebel against God, and that has led to suffering. But without free will, we couldn't freely choose to love God, which is what He wants. To blame God would be to negate Satan's responsibility of his actions. Satan was not created evil; he chose to rebel by his own free will choices. Could God prevent him or anyone else from doing evil before they did it? Yes, but then that wouldn't be free will; we would just be puppets in God's divine play. I don't believe that's the case. Now, that doesn't mean God can't use evil for good. If Satan or anyone else is intent on doing evil, God can and will use that for His purposes. That, however, doesn't mean God orchestrated it to be that way, only that He is working within the confines of our free will choices. We are going through a refining process, one that entails momentary evil and suffering. But in the end, that will be resolved.

 

[Jericho]

Did you ever think you'd meet so many Christians who insist Satan isn't real?

The end result of allegory.

 

[Davy]

Can you post a video that properly presents what you are teaching?

Notable Christians Open to an Old-universe, Old-earth Perspective

The following individuals—respected authors, Bible scholars, scientists, pastors, linguists, and more—hold to a diversity of views on the timing of God’s creation. And yet all have affirmed, in documented sources, that an ancient universe and Earth (including big bang cosmology) pose no threat...

reasons.org

 

[Hiddenthings]

Satan was not created evil; he chose to rebel by his own free will choices.

Evidence

 

[Jericho]

Evidence

I could cite the verse, but if you are going to turn everything into symbolism/allegory, we won't agree.

 

[MatthewG]

The absence of God is.

Ie: Darkness

 

[Hiddenthings]

I could cite the verse, but if you are going to turn everything into symbolism/allegory, we won't agree.

If it's a highly symbolic verse and you do not know the interpretation of the section of Scripture, then you are wise not to quote it.