Paul's Gospel

[Eternally Grateful]

Indoctrinated is the exact thing we see here. The words couldn't be more clear but to those who have been brainwashed ....

This is you 100 %

Don;t be a hypocrite accusing others of what you have done..

 

[dak]

lol. Abraham was saved in gen 15. Not in gen 22.

when will you people realize this, then see your interpretation of james is off base?

Abraham was saved completely in Gen 15

Paul explains this quote well in Rm 4: 4

What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.
5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:

7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered;
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.”

You see you have a major problem

1. Both quote Gen 15
2. One says with works
3. The other says no works whatsoever


YOU have to resolve the major contradiction between James and Paul if both are talking about being declared righteous or about being actually saved.



Yes. But I can believe and not have faith.

Demons believe in one God. but did they trust that on God?

Biblical faith is easy to find

1. It trusts God completely with their eternity
2. It bring about Gods imputed righteousness (one is now made right with God and God will not impute sin against them)
3. It brings about change in ones life.. If I trust God with my eternity, why do I not trust God to take care of my temporal or spiritual needs ?
4. Since I trust God to take care of my spiritual needs. i am free to service and love other5s. which means my life changes, and I start to produce fruit.
5. We also can know if they do not trust God. by how they act, by how they do not change, and by what they say (they are trusting in self. not in God)



4. Since it trust God in

There is much more scripture behind what I quoted and posted from Yakob which teaches the same thing. One of those passages you ignored by saying that it doesn't matter.

1) The KJV translators did not even realize they were translating Koine Greek. In modern times the first to realize that the N/T was written in Koine Greek was a man by the name of Gustav Adolf Deissman, in the late 1800's, (please read the link if you are indeed interested in the truth). And some have brought this fact to light having written about it, but not many and not much about it, as far as I know, (for example, Everything You Wanted to Know About the King James Bible, (go down to the section called "Doctrinal Concerns" which is in bold, and from there go back up two paragraphs).

2) The KJV therefore has great difficulty with verb tenses, especially with the verb forms of γινομαι:
2a) γεγονεν, Gal 3:24, rendered as was, (it means has become in this context, shown to you previously).
2b) γεγενησθαι, Rom 15:8, again rendered as was, when it should be has become or has been made.
2c) γενεσθαι, John 8:58, again rendered as was, when it should be comes to be or comes to pass or is done.
Are these not all critical passages where these errors are found? They are, and yet you've already made one of them irrelevant in your doctrine by claiming the error in Gal 3:24, in the translation you quoted, doesn't matter.

3) The KJV translators are excused because at that time they had very limited materials to work with and no one knew it was Koine Greek until the late 1800's, (see the second link above). However modern translators have no excuse whatsoever: and those who follow the KJV in such critical places, as in Gal 3:24, are surely therefore only hiding behind the erroneous KJV in that instance by using the KJV as a supposed precedent, but in reality what they are hiding is their own antinomian bias against the Torah because they too have been indoctrinated.

In the next post I hope to bring the understanding together with several other passages that teach the same as the passage quoted previously above from the epistle of Yakob aka James, for the Galatians passage teaches the very same thing, and so does Hebrew 10:35-39, (meaning that yet again you have not correctly understood what you have posted above).

 

[Eternally Grateful]

There is much more scripture behind what I quoted and posted from Yakob which teaches the same thing. One of those passages you ignored by saying that it doesn't matter.

1) The KJV translators did not even realize they were translating Koine Greek. In modern times the first to realize that the N/T was written in Koine Greek was a man by the name of Gustav Adolf Deissman, in the late 1800's, (please read the link if you are indeed interested in the truth). And some have brought this fact to light having written about it, but not many and not much about it, as far as I know, (for example, Everything You Wanted to Know About the King James Bible, (go down to the section called "Doctrinal Concerns" which is in bold, and from there go back up two paragraphs).

2) The KJV therefore has great difficulty with verb tenses, especially with the verb forms of γινομαι:
2a) γεγονεν, Gal 3:24, rendered as was, (it means has become in this context, shown to you previously).
2b) γεγενησθαι, Rom 15:8, again rendered as was, when it should be has become or has been made.
2c) γενεσθαι, John 8:58, again rendered as was, when it should be comes to be or comes to pass or is done.
Are these not all critical passages where these errors are found? They are, and yet you've already made one of them irrelevant in your doctrine by claiming the error in Gal 3:24, in the translation you quoted, doesn't matter.

3) The KJV translators are excused because at that time they had very limited materials to work with and no one knew it was Koine Greek until the late 1800's, (see the second link above). However modern translators have no excuse whatsoever: and those who follow the KJV in such critical places, as in Gal 3:24, are surely therefore only hiding behind the erroneous KJV in that instance by using the KJV as a supposed precedent, but in reality what they are hiding is their own antinomian bias against the Torah because they too have been indoctrinated.

In the next post I hope to bring the understanding together with several other passages that teach the same as the passage quoted previously above from the epistle of Yakob aka James, for the Galatians passage teaches the very same thing, and so does Hebrew 10:35-39, (meaning that yet again you have not correctly understood what you have posted above).

I am not much worried about the the writers of the KJV wrote. nor am I worried about what they wrote.

Lets look at the verses.

Gal 3: 24. the law became - gegonan - to become, it is a verb, perfect tense active, indicative. third person singular.

Literally. in the present moment, the law has become a tutor to lead us to christ. It is a verb so it is in action, and it is active right here right now (at the time paul wrote this)

looking at it. it is just as applicable today as it was when paul wrote it. It still has become a tutor to lead us to Christ.

so everything i have said is in complete agreement with this

Rom 15: 8 - 8 Now I say that Jesus Christ has become a servant to the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made to the fathers,

again, has become, verb- perfect tense, passive (it acts on us, it is not somethign done by us) infinitive

so again, Not sure of your point, nothing has changed.

John 8: 58 58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”

again, was - to become, to take place, aorist tense Middle infinitive

Literally. before abraham came into existence. I AM

I AM - ego eimi, literally. I am who I am, or I always existed. or I already was in existence -

in saying this he claimed to Be God. it is why the people picked up rocks to stone him

again not really sure what your trying to prove, You have not shown me anything I do not already know.. and yuo have not shown me anything to change my view

 

[dak]

Gal 3: 24. the law became - gegonan - to become, it is a verb, perfect tense active, indicative. third person singular.

Literally. in the present moment, the law has become a tutor to lead us to christ. It is a verb so it is in action, and it is active right here right now (at the time paul wrote this) looking at it. it is just as applicable today as it was when paul wrote it. It still has become a tutor to lead us to Christ.
so everything i have said is in complete agreement with this

That is neither what you quoted nor what you agreed with in your commentary concerning that quote.

It was a schoolmaster or tutor. who leads us by the hand to christ. that we may be justified by faith (christ took the curse for us)

24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

You cannot tell the difference in meaning between was and has become ???
However it's good to see that you did actually learn something and have now corrected yourself.

 

[dak]

All of the following was and is written to believers.

Hebrews 10:31-34 KJV
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
32 But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions;
33 Partly, whilst ye were made a gazingstock both by reproaches and afflictions; and partly, whilst ye became companions of them that were so used.
34 For ye had compassion of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that ye have in heaven a better and an enduring substance.

So when the author mentions in the next verse below, "Cast not away therefore your confidence", he speaks of their former confidence, which is why he has just reminded them of their own past afflictions, (for it appears they were beginning to lose that former confidence which they had at one time). After clarifying this he explains the journey they are on and how it is to come to its conclusion, but first a critically important background passage:

Habakkuk 2:1-4 KJV
1 I will stand upon my watch, and set me upon the tower, and will watch to see what he will say unto me, and what I shall answer when I am reproved.
2 And the LORD answered me, and said, Write the vision, and make it plain upon tables, that he may run that readeth it.
3 For the vision is yet for an appointed time, but at the end it shall speak, and not lie: though it tarry, wait for it; because it will surely come, it will not tarry.
4 Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.

Habakkuk 2:1-4 LXX-Septuagint (Brenton Translation)
1 I will stand upon my watch, and mount upon the rock, and watch to see what he will say by me, and what I shall answer when I am reproved.
2 And the Lord answered me and said, Write the vision, and that plainly on a tablet, that he that reads it may run.
3 For the vision is yet for a time, and it shall shoot forth at the end, and not in vain: though he should tarry, wait for him; for he will surely come, and will not tarry.
4 If he should draw back, my soul has no pleasure in him: but the just shall live by my faith.

Hebrews 10:35-39 KJV
35 Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.
36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
37 For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry. [Hab 2:3 LXX]
38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. [Hab 2:4 LXX]
39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

We enter into the family of Elohim as newborns, as infants, and then grow into children. However no father sets his own babe or child in charge of all his goods: there must first come age with experience and learning, and then eventually there comes a time of testing, the time appointed of the Father when a child becomes an adult, a proven, tried and true son of the Father. There is an appointed time coming, a time appointed of the Father, (Gal 4:2), and no one knows the day or hour: but first we must each do the will of Elohim before we can receive the Promise, (Heb 10:36).

What is the will of Elohim in this regard? Paul writes regarding this also:

1 Thessalonians 4:1-8 KJV
1 Furthermore then we beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Lord Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please God, so ye would abound more and more.
2 For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus.
3 For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:
4 That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;
5 Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God:
6 That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified.
7 For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.
8 He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.

Paul also makes the Hebrews 10:35-39 passage point plain as day, but modern mainstream doctrine and its preachers and teachers seem to just ignore it, (likely because their congregations do not want to hear it), so you will not likely hear this in any church or from any mainstream preachers and teachers because it is clearly not the same easy path that they themselves teach and preach.

Galatians 4:1-2 KJV
1 Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;
2 But is under tutors [Torah and Prophets] and governors [Writings (e.g. Psalms)] until the time appointed of the father.

Moreover this passage is a continuation of the previous chapter, (23), so the chapter break can be deceptive for the casual reader because it breaks off the end of the passage and places it in the passage above, at the top of chapter four. The above statement is the begging of the conclusion of what was said in the previous chapter.

Galatians 3:21—4:7
21 [Is] the Law, then, against the promises of God? Let it not be! For if a law was given that was able to make alive, truly there would have been righteousness by law,
22 but the Writing shut up the whole under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ may be given to those believing.
23 And before the coming of faith, we were being kept under law, shut up to the faith about to be revealed,
24 so that the Law became our tutor—to Christ, that we may be declared righteous by faith,
25 and faith having come, we are no longer under a tutor,
26 for you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus,
27 for as many as were immersed into Christ put on Christ;
28 there is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither servant nor freeman, there is neither male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus;
29 and if you [are] of Christ then you are seed of Abraham, and heirs according to promise. [Heb 10:36]
01 And I say, now as much time as the heir is a child, he differs nothing from a servant, [though] being lord of all,
02 but is under tutors and stewards until the time appointed of the father,
03 so we also, when we were children, were in servitude under the elements of the world, [natural-minded interpretations of the Torah: Pharisees, Sadducees, Scribes]
04 and when the fullness of time came, God sent forth His Son, come of a woman, come under law,
05 that He may redeem those under law, that we may receive the adoption as sons;
06 and because you are sons, God sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying, "Abba! Father!"
07 So that you are no longer a servant, but a son, and if a son, also an heir of God through Christ.

"No longer a servant", (the statement directly above), points the reader back to what was said in Gal 4:1-2. Therefore one is not a tried, true, bona fide son until the time appointed of the Father when a child becomes a son: for it is only at that point that he is no longer a servant. This same appointed time of testing is also said to be the timing of the saving of the soul in Hebrews 10:39, (take heed, it speaks of a vision). This appointed time is also extremely likely to be the time when one overcomes, mentioned to all of the assemblies in the Apocalypse, and it is personal and individual, "the one who overcomes...", to each in his or her own appointed times appointed by the Father. This in no way can be the day wherein one first believed: such reasoning throws the patient endurance and faith of the believer in Meshiah out the window, and what happens when believers are taught that they have already overcome just by an initial statement of faith? Typically it is time to eat, drink, and rise up to play, (an extremely negative and ominous Hebrew idiom, Exo 32:6).

The two main texts above are teaching the same as Yakob-James previously quoted and commented on in Reply#58. We have now three scripture witnesses telling us that the time when we first believed is not the end-all: and this is including the context wherein those three witness are found, and there is more in the writings of Paul, (see: the earnest of the Spirit, and the earnest of our inheritance, for example, for those passages are related to this theme).

 

[Behold]

the time when we first believed is not the end-all:

When you believe IN Jesus........your "Faith is counted by God, as (Christ's) Righeousness" on your behalf.

So, your sin is forgiven, and God causes the new birth of the Spirit in the person, which becomes "one with God".

This is eternal.......its completed........ as Born...again,= as a "new creation in Christ".

What isn't competed is .........you dont have your new body yet, and there is inheritance in heaven that is waiting.
You haven't been to the be BEMA seat yet... and the Christian is not "conformed into the image of Christ" yet.

Also, your disciplship isn't completed as it just began, as soon as you were born again.

 

[dak]

When you believe IN Jesus........your "Faith is counted by God, as (Christ's) Righeousness" on your behalf.

So, your sin is forgiven, and God causes the new birth of the Spirit in the person, which becomes "one with God".

This is eternal.......its completed........ as Born...again,= as a "new creation in Christ".

What isn't competed is .........you dont have your new body yet, and there is inheritance in heaven that is waiting.
You haven't been to the be BEMA seat yet... and the Christian is not "conformed into the image of Christ" yet.

Also, your disciplship isn't completed as it just began, as soon as you were born again.

Too many assumptions, not enough scripture, (in fact, none). If you are not able to explain your positions from the scriptures in their contexts then you are merely offering your opinions. When it comes to scripture and scripture doctrine I cannot accept the testimony of men without any scripture in support of their opinions.

 

[PS95]

When you believe IN Jesus........your "Faith is counted by God, as (Christ's) Righeousness" on your behalf.

So, your sin is forgiven, and God causes the new birth of the Spirit in the person, which becomes "one with God".

This is eternal.......its completed........ as Born...again,= as a "new creation in Christ".

What isn't competed is .........you dont have your new body yet, and there is inheritance in heaven that is waiting.
You haven't been to the be BEMA seat yet... and the Christian is not "conformed into the image of Christ" yet.

Also, your disciplship isn't completed as it just began, as soon as you were born again.

Behold, you are beginning to get it!!!

What isn't completed yet, is your sanctification which is a part of being born again.. to walk in new life..
We are sanctified- but are also being sanctified as we put to death the sins of the flesh by the Spirit.....( seems you call that discipleship?)
Just as it says we are glorified, but we are not yet.- we will be.
This is a process that is throughout our lives as we abide in Christ.
It includes repenting of sins by the Spirit and walking in newness of life- all as PAUL taught!
Our behavior after initial salvation DOES matter. --We must ABIDE in Christ's teachings and walk in the Spirit and kill sins.
We are being MADE HOLY.
Those who live in their sins will not enter God's Kingdom.
If you teach otherwise you are rejecting God who gives us the Holy Spirit.

Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who submit to or perform homosexual acts, / nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor verbal abusers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. --1 Cor 6

The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity, and debauchery; / idolatry and sorcery; hatred, discord, jealousy, and rage; rivalries, divisions, factions, / and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. --Galatians 5:19-21

But among you, as is proper among the saints, there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed. / Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk, or crude joking, which are out of character, but rather thanksgiving. / For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure, or greedy person (that is, an idolater) has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Eph 5:3-5

Therefore put to death your members which are on the earth: fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. --Colossians 3:5

For you know what commandments we gave you by the authority of the Lord Jesus. For this is the will of God, your sanctification; that is, that you abstain from sexual immorality; that each of you know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor, not in lustful passion, like the Gentiles who do not know God; and that no man transgress and defraud his brother in the matter because the Lord is the avenger in all these things, just as we also told you before and solemnly warned you. For God has not called us for the purpose of impurity, but in sanctification. So, he who rejects this is not rejecting man but the God who gives His Holy Spirit to you.
1 Thes 4:2-8

Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its desires. / Do not present the parts of your body to sin as instruments of wickedness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and present the parts of your body to Him as instruments of righteousness.

For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Ro 8:13

 

[Gary Mac]

From what I read of Paul compared to who Jesus said he was in God, somethings do not match. Paul used trickery to get people to follow him instead of who Jesus said he was in God. 2 Cor 12:16 Be that as it may, I have not been a burden to you. Yet, crafty fellow that I am, I caught you by trickery!

Trickery is lies. Sooth saying, witchcraft. Jesus had it right when he said this of himself and about his God who sent him.

John 12:49: For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

John 12:44-45. who believes in me, does not believe in me but in Him who sent me. He who sees me sees Him who sent me.

John 7:16. Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.

John 5 :17 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

John 5:19. “Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.”

John 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

John 17:2-21, the kingdom of God doesnt come withj observation, it is withn you

John 16:23. And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.

John 14:16. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Matt 11:25. At that time Jesus declared, “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because You have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.

John 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one.

As for me, Jesus has it right. Jesus is the one I identify with in my own self. Same Spirit of God, mind, is in me who was in Jesus. My identity is with the same God he was identified with. He was clear in that in what he said of himself and his God quoted above.

 

[Toro55]

While salvation is a free gift, the concept of "rewards" in heaven suggests that believers will be evaluated based on their actions and service during their lives. This is often linked to the idea of different levels of glory or positions in heaven, though not in a way that undermines the initial salvation


Your free to do nothing if you want but you will not gain any reward.

 

[Muna]

From what I read of Paul compared to who Jesus said he was in God, somethings do not match. Paul used trickery to get people to follow him instead of who Jesus said he was in God. 2 Cor 12:16 Be that as it may, I have not been a burden to you. Yet, crafty fellow that I am, I caught you by trickery!

Ever read any commentaries on that verse?

2 Corinthians 12:16 Commentaries: But be that as it may, I did not burden you myself; nevertheless, crafty fellow that I am, I took you in by deceit.

 

[nedsk]

While salvation is a free gift, the concept of "rewards" in heaven suggests that believers will be evaluated based on their actions and service during their lives. This is often linked to the idea of different levels of glory or positions in heaven, though not in a way that undermines the initial salvation


Your free to do nothing if you want but you will not gain any reward.

People will be evaluated on their actions. Scripture is crystal clear in that regard. Matt 25: 31-46

If people do "nothing" they get nothing. The parable of the talents matt 25:24-30

 

[Eternally Grateful]

From what I read of Paul compared to who Jesus said he was in God, somethings do not match. Paul used trickery to get people to follow him instead of who Jesus said he was in God. 2 Cor 12:16 Be that as it may, I have not been a burden to you. Yet, crafty fellow that I am, I caught you by trickery!

Trickery is lies. Sooth saying, witchcraft. Jesus had it right when he said this of himself and about his God who sent him.

John 12:49: For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

John 12:44-45. who believes in me, does not believe in me but in Him who sent me. He who sees me sees Him who sent me.

John 7:16. Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.

John 5 :17 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

John 5:19. “Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.”

John 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

John 17:2-21, the kingdom of God doesnt come withj observation, it is withn you

John 16:23. And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.

John 14:16. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Matt 11:25. At that time Jesus declared, “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because You have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.

John 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one.

As for me, Jesus has it right. Jesus is the one I identify with in my own self. Same Spirit of God, mind, is in me who was in Jesus. My identity is with the same God he was identified with. He was clear in that in what he said of himself and his God quoted above.

what did Paul say that Jesus did not say?

 

[nedsk]

what did Paul say that Jesus did not say?

1 Corinthians 11:1-2

2 Thessalonians 2:15-17
I especially like v 17 "...comfort your hearts and strengthen you in every good deed and word."

If faith is sufficient why would you need strength to do good deeds?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

1 Corinthians 11:1-2

so this counters what Jesus said?

2 Thessalonians 2:15-17
I especially like v 17 "...comfort your hearts and strengthen you in every good deed and word."

So Jesus did not say this? This counters what Jesus said?

If faith is sufficient why would you need strength to do good deeds?

Faith is the strength by which we do good deeds.

Without faith it is impossible to please God

But you want to do works apart from the power of God and take credit for yourself

Yeah, Not of works lest anyone should boast.

who is boasting of their works.? Not I.

 

[nedsk]

so this counters what Jesus said?


So Jesus did not say this? This counters what Jesus said?

Faith is the strength by which we do good deeds.

Without faith it is impossible to please God

But you want to do works apart from the power of God and take credit for yourself

Yeah, Not of works lest anyone should boast.

who is boasting of their works.? Not I.

You switched the goal posts. You said what did Paul teach that Jesus didn't. You didn't ask what Paul said that "counters" what Jesus said. You can't even understand your own writing but I'm supposed to think you understand Paul or Jesus???? LMBO. I didn't realize this was a comedy thread.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You switched the goal posts. You said what did Paul teach that Jesus didn't.

Actually no. I responded to a post from a member who made this statement

From what I read of Paul compared to who Jesus said he was in God, somethings do not match. Paul used trickery to get people to follow him instead of who Jesus said he was in God. 2 Cor 12:16 Be that as it may, I have not been a burden to you. Yet, crafty fellow that I am, I caught you by trickery!

Trickery is lies. Sooth saying, witchcraft. Jesus had it right when he said this of himself and about his God who sent him.

so i asked him what Paul taught that Jesus did not

You didn't ask what Paul said that "counters" what Jesus said. You can't even understand your own writing but I'm supposed to think you understand Paul or Jesus???? LMBO. I didn't realize this was a comedy thread.

You did not pay attention to who I asked the question to or why. You just wanted to continue your attack against me.

and just made a huge mistake.

 

[nedsk]

Actually no. I responded to a post from a member who made this statement



so i asked him what Paul taught that Jesus did not




You did not pay attention to who I asked the question to or why. You just wanted to continue your attack against me.

and just made a huge mistake.

I just showed you what Paul taught that Jesus did not. It doesn't counter anything.

I'm not "attacking" you I just don't fall for your nonsense. I've been through too many rodeos with you people. It's the same tired story every time.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I just showed you what Paul taught that Jesus did not. It doesn't counter anything.

lol.

dude, sorry but you have a massive pride problem

The poster said Paul tried to decieve people by teaching things Jesus did not

You did not show me anything that Paul taught that was against Jesus own words.

I'm not "attacking" you I just don't fall for your nonsense. I've been through too many rodeos with you people. It's the same tired story every time.

lol.. As I have been with you people. why do you think it is so easy for me to refute you..

I just proved you can not even understand a basic conversation.. But sadly. You will not see it. and not even try to repent..

Like I said. all I have to do is let you talk..

 

[nedsk]

lol.

dude, sorry but you have a massive pride problem

The poster said Paul tried to decieve people by teaching things Jesus did not

You did not show me anything that Paul taught that was against Jesus own words.



lol.. As I have been with you people. why do you think it is so easy for me to refute you..

I just proved you can not even understand a basic conversation.. But sadly. You will not see it. and not even try to repent..

Like I said. all I have to do is let you talk..

You can "refute" me with passages that don't say what you think they say. If faith is all that's needed then it doesn't matter how in behave otherwise I have reason to boast correct? My behavior is irrelevant to my salvation if faith is sufficient. You people want it both ways and that's where you fall way short of the mark. I feel bad for you but it's your problem not mine.