Is it possible to lose salvation?

[nedsk]

The things Paul said are not scriptural?

BTW, addressing someone as "you people" is hardly charitable.

That's not what I said. Try again. When anything ing is presented that seems to conflict with Paul you by default defer Paul.

Well that means nothing to me after reading a post by panda bear of whatever it is

 

[nedsk]

The scriptures.

How do you know you have a correct understanding not that scripture?

 

[Rich R]

There was no one else because most Jews rejected Jesus. Their hearts were still hardened

You'd have to read more of the thread between God'sGrace and myself to get a better understanding of the conversation.

 

[pandaflower]

Ninety pages in a thread asking if Jesus lied during his ministry and was a dead failure on the cross.

Yes!
Is the simple answer for any and all replies here that insist a Christian can lose their Salvation.

 

[Rich R]

That's not what I said. Try again. When anything ing is presented that seems to conflict with Paul you by default defer Paul.

God inspired Paul to write the things he wrote after the day of Pentecost. Would you deny that Pentecost changed things? So, although we can learn from the OT and the gospels, the letters of Paul give the specific marching orders for the Christian church, and they are radically different than those of the Jews before Pentecost. That's why I don't offer animal sacrifices in the morning and evening. That was for Israel, not the church.

Well that means nothing to me after reading a post by panda bear of whatever it is

You'll have to elaborate if I'm to reply.

 

[Rich R]

How do you know you have a correct understanding not that scripture?

Technically, given that we all see through a dark glass, nobody has the full understanding. Nonetheless, I understand that which I'm confident God has revealed to me. Is it perfect understand? No. It is what it is. Anybody taking a different position on the matter is not being honest with themselves, or for that matter, with God (1 Cor 13:12). We're all in the same boat. When Jesus comes back we'll find out the whole truth. Until then we ought to love one another and not amplify any doctrinal difference. If someone confess Jesus as lord and believers God raised him from the dead (Rom 10:9), they are my brother or sister and I love them for taking a stance. I'm pretty sure that aligns with God's thinking.

 

[pandaflower]

This IS the teaching of JESUS! I cant believe you Deny this!

Matthew 19:16-19 (NKJV)​

Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?” So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.” He said to Him, “Which ones?” Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’”

---

Mark 10:17-19 (NKJV)​

Now as He was going out on the road, one came running, knelt before Him, and asked Him, “Good Teacher, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?” So Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. You know the commandments: ‘Do not commit adultery,’ ‘Do not murder,’ ‘Do not steal,’ ‘Do not bear false witness,’ ‘Do not defraud,’ ‘Honor your father and your mother.’”

---

Luke 18:18-20 (NKJV)​

Now a certain ruler asked Him, saying, “Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” So Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. You know the commandments: ‘Do not commit adultery,’ ‘Do not murder,’ ‘Do not steal,’ ‘Do not bear false witness,’ ‘Honor your father and your mother.’”

In all three Gospels, Jesus clearly ties eternal life to obedience to the commandments. This shows that keeping God’s commandments is part of salvation—not as a replacement for grace, but as the response of love and faithfulness that Jesus requires.

even Paul says so;

• 1 Corinthians 7:19: “Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.”
• Ephesians 6:1-2: “Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. ‘Honor your father and mother,’ which is the first commandment with promise.”
  (This is a direct quote of the fifth commandment.)
• Romans 2:13: “For not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified.”
• Romans 7:12: “Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.”
• Romans 3:31: “Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.”

You are really obstinate..

Believe it.

Ready for a real shocker?

He claims to be a preacher.

 

[complete]

Subject Heading, 'Is It Possible To Lose Salvation?'

'And grieve not the holy Spirit of God,
whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.'
(Eph 4:30)

 

[Behold]

'And grieve not the holy Spirit of God,

How do you "grieve the Holy Spirit, Reader?

Well, you refuse to believe that Jesus who saved you, is the only way you will stay saved.
You believe that Jesus the SAVIOR, only started your salvaiton, and now you have to work and perform and do this, and keep that..to try to save yourself, the rest of the way.
That is the #1 way you "grieve the Holy Spirit".

Other ways to "Grieve the HS"?

You post Threads and Posts and write Sermons and Commentaries and make Videos and online sites, where you deceive belivers out of faith in Christ and have them "trying to be obedient" and "keep Commandments".. "and Trying to Abide"... so that they try to keep themselves saved this way.....instead of having REAL Faith in Christ.

So, in other words, when you RUIN the faith of Real Christians, you have "grieved the Holy Spirit".

Another way to define it, is to "blaspheme the Holy Spirit'.

Another way to blaspheme or "Grieve" the HS, is to teach a false Gospel, such as Universalism.

 

[Rich R]

How do you "grieve the Holy Spirit"?

Well, you refuse to believe that Jesus who saved you, is the only way you will stay saved.
You believe that Jesus the SAVIOR, only started your salvaiton, and now you have to work and perform and do this, and keep that..to try to save yourself, the rest of the way.
That is the #1 way you "grieve the Holy Spirit".

Other ways to "Grieve the HS"?

You post Threads and Posts and write Sermons and Commentaries and make Videos and online sites, where you deceive belivers out of faith in Christ and have them "trying to be obedient" and "keeping Commandments".. "and Trying to Abide"... so that they try to keep themselves saved this way.....instead of having REAL Faith in Christ.

So, in other words, when you RUIN the faith of Real Christians, you have "grieved the Holy Spirit".

Another way to define it, is to "blaspheme the Holy Spirit'.

Another way to blaspheme or "Grieve" the HS, is to teach a false Gospe, such as Universalism.

I think he was pointing out the second phrase, "whereby you are sealed unto the day of redemption."

As you say, we ought not to grieve that holy spirit which made us sealed. But there's nothing in that verse that says we will become unsealed if we do grieve the spirit. We ought not to grieve our earthly father either, but if we do we are still "sealed" in the sense that we are still our father's son or daughter.

God and Jesus went to a lot of trouble to save us. Christians ought to be grateful and obey Him. But God wants obedience from a heart of love, not from obligation, and certainly not from fear of becoming unsealed.

Walking in love casts our fear (1 John 4:18). I can't believe that anyone who thinks they can lose the salvation is not walking in fear. Nobody knows what they will be doing tomorrow, next year, or next decade. Anybody can walk away from their faith and go the way of the world. To think not is to greatly underestimate the power of our adversary, the devil.

 

[Behold]

We ought not to grieve our earthly father either, but if we do we are still "sealed"

One of the reasons that you have a type of Legalist (self saving) Chrisitan who wants to try to prove that they have to keep themselves saved, is because they do not really understand something regarding God's Salvation.

1.) That to become "IN CHRIST", is to become "ONE with God"......and that is eternal, because its not based on behavior.....its based on "new Birth"......born again.... spiritually
So, because they dont understand that this is eternal spiritual union, which is why the verse says we are "ONE with " and "IN".....them, who are eternal., they can only conceive of themselves down here, in their body, carnally minded and trying to be good so that God will keep them if they can be good enough.
They have never understood that what Qualifies all of us to become A Christian is to be BAD.....a sinners......sinning... Lost and Hell bound.
So, God saves a SINNER, and now this Confused Christian, is trying to do works to "stay saved"... by being good enough....when they have already been accepted by God "while we were YET SINNERS".

They can't comprehend this wonder of Salvation. (God's Grace)... because they are mind blinded and stumbling around inside their own Self Righteousness, tripping over bible verses.
They dont understand the ETERNAL situaton that is to become "IN" Christ and "ONE with God".
The dont understand that Christ Regained ETERNAL Spiritual Union with Himself and With God, for them.

Welcome To : Salvation
Welcome To : The Preaching of The Cross.

 

[complete]

'There is no fear in love;
but perfect love casteth out fear:
because fear hath torment.
He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
We love Him, because He first loved us.'
(1Jn 4:18-19)

Hello @Rich R,

Reading the word of God is my answer when my love grows cold: for when I read God's word prayerfully, I see the Lord Jesus Christ, The Father and the Holy Spirit appearing in print before my eyes, and as I read my heart melts, and gratitude takes the place of hardness of heart, and blessing pours in.

I have known the Lord Jesus Christ as my Saviour for many years now, and the Holy Spirit has brought the things of Christ, and made them mine, and has revealed the love of God in the person of His Son the Lord Jesus Christ. His Faithfulness and infinite patience is overwhelming in it's depth and fulness. Like Job, I can say, I know that my Redeemer liveth, and one day I shall see Him. He has promised me the gift of life, and that life is in His Son, and by His grace He has placed me in Him. How secure is that?

'But of Him are ye in Christ Jesus,
Who of God is made unto us
wisdom, and righteousness,
and sanctification, and redemption:
That, according as it is written,
He that glorieth, let Him glory in the Lord.'
(1Co 1:30-31)

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[nedsk]

Technically, given that we all see through a dark glass, nobody has the full understanding. Nonetheless, I understand that which I'm confident God has revealed to me. Is it perfect understand? No. It is what it is. Anybody taking a different position on the matter is not being honest with themselves, or for that matter, with God (1 Cor 13:12). We're all in the same boat. When Jesus comes back we'll find out the whole truth. Until then we ought to love one another and not amplify any doctrinal difference. If someone confess Jesus as lord and believers God raised him from the dead (Rom 10:9), they are my brother or sister and I love them for taking a stance. I'm pretty sure that aligns with God's thinking.

We should love one another but that panda thing sure doesnt.

 

[nedsk]

Ninety pages in a thread asking if Jesus lied during his ministry and was a dead failure on the cross.

Yes!
Is the simple answer for any and all replies here that insist a Christian can lose their Salvation.

If I can't lose it then I can behave any way I like once im saved.

 

[Rich R]

If I can't lose it then I can behave any way I like once im saved.

You can behave any way you like. But if you really love God you will behave like His son. Obviously the latter is better, but either way you are still His son. You can't "un-son" yourself from your earthly father, nor your heavenly Father. A son is a son regardless of their behavior. You can't take the seed of either either father out of you. It's kinda stuck in there.

 

[Rich R]

We should love one another but that panda thing sure doesnt.

What is the "panda thing?" Sounds interesting.

 

[LoveYeshua]

Agreed re the Last Supper...this is also my understanding.

I agree since I believe you're saying that the NC is in EFFECT right now.
§This is what I know...If we want to say that it will be FULFILLED in a future time,,,that's fine with me.
I used to teach the Covenants but have forgotten a lot.

I must admit, it surprised me to learn that the fullness of the New Covenant will only be realized when Jesus returns. I discovered this recently while reading the book of Jeremiah in its entirety. It makes sense, because today many people do not believe that we are required to keep God’s commandments—the very covenant He gave. Yet Scripture shows that we must not only keep them but also teach them since People do not know.

Jeremiah 31:34 says:

“No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

This is clearly not the case right now. If it were, everyone would already know the Lord, and there would be no need for teaching. But this forum—and the many debates we see—prove that people still argue about whether the commandments must be kept, even though God plainly states that His covenant is the Ten Commandments.

However, the New Covenant is in effect. Jesus inaugurated it with His blood, and that is why we have a mission today—to spread the truth, grow the Kingdom, and plant the seeds of His wonderful gospel. The fullness will come when Christ returns, but until then, we must teach and live by His covenant.

Blessings.

 

[complete]

I must admit, it surprised me to learn that the fullness of the New Covenant will only be realized when Jesus returns. I discovered this recently while reading the book of Jeremiah in its entirety. It makes sense, because today many people do not believe that we are required to keep God’s commandments—the very covenant He gave. Yet Scripture shows that we must not only keep them but also teach them since People do not know.

Jeremiah 31:34 says:

“No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

This is clearly not the case right now. If it were, everyone would already know the Lord, and there would be no need for teaching. But this forum—and the many debates we see—prove that people still argue about whether the commandments must be kept, even though God plainly states that His covenant is the Ten Commandments.

However, the New Covenant is in effect. Jesus inaugurated it with His blood, and that is why we have a mission today—to spread the truth, grow the Kingdom, and plant the seeds of His wonderful gospel. The fullness will come when Christ returns, but until then, we must teach and live by His covenant.

Blessings.

Hello @loveYeshua,

The commandments were not given to the Gentiles, and we are not bound by a covenant to keep them. The Lord will forgive the iniquity of Israel, and remember their sins no more, when they come to repentance. Praise God! The new covenant is in abeyance at this time, and await that day, which is yet future. Though the blood of the covenant has been shed, by the Lord Jesus Christ: Peter's words in Acts 3:18-20 has not been obeyed, so it will yet be made with Israel and Judah in that day that Jeremiah describes.

In Christ Jesus
our risen and glorified
Saviour, Lord and Head.
Chris

 

[nedsk]

You can behave any way you like. But if you really love God you will behave like His son. Obviously the latter is better, but either way you are still His son. You can't "un-son" yourself from your earthly father, nor your heavenly Father. A son is a son regardless of their behavior. You can't take the seed of either either father out of you. It's kinda stuck in there.

None of that means you can't lose your salvation

 

[LoveYeshua]

Hello @loveYeshua,

The commandments were not given to the Gentiles, and we are not bound by a covenant to keep them. The Lord will forgive the iniquity of Israel, and remember their sins no more, when they come to repentance. Praise God! The new covenant is in abeyance at this time, and await that day, which is yet future. Though the blood of the covenant has been shed, by the Lord Jesus Christ: Peter's words in Acts 3:18-20 has not been obeyed, so it will yet be made with Israel and Judah in that day that Jeremiah describes.

In Christ Jesus
our risen and glorified
Saviour, Lord and Head.
Chris

The statement you shared is in direct conflict with the words of Jesus Christ and the testimony of Scripture. To say that Gentiles are not bound to God’s commandments is to reject the very foundation of the new covenant, because Jesus Himself said, “If you love Me, keep My commandments” (John 14:15, NKJV). He did not say, “If you are Jewish, keep My commandments,” but spoke to all who would follow Him.

Jesus gave the Great Commission to His eleven apostles after His resurrection, commanding them: “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations… teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you” (Matthew 28:19–20, NKJV). “All things” includes His commandments, which are rooted in the Law of God, because Jesus declared: “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill”(Matthew 5:17). Fulfill does not mean abolish, because He immediately warned that “Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven” (Matthew 5:19).

The idea that the commandments are not for Gentiles is completely false. Jesus said plainly that His words will judge everyone: “He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him—the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day” (John 12:48). His words include the commandments of God, which He never annulled but affirmed throughout His ministry.

The Book of Revelation, written decades after the resurrection and ascension of Christ, makes it clear that the commandments remain binding for all who follow Jesus. In describing the true saints, John wrote: “Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus” (Revelation 14:12). Again in Revelation 22:14, a blessing is pronounced: “Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.” This proves beyond doubt that the commandments are not temporary, not for one nation only, and not optional—they are the very mark of God’s faithful people at the end of the age.

The claim that the new covenant is “in abeyance” is equally unscriptural. Jesus declared that the covenant was sealed with His blood: “For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins” (Matthew 26:28). The covenant is not waiting for some future day to take effect—it was ratified at the cross, confirmed by His resurrection, and applied when the Holy Spirit was given at Pentecost. To say otherwise is to deny the words of Christ and the outpouring of the Spirit that began the church.

Anyone who teaches that the commandments are not for Gentile believers is not teaching the gospel that Jesus preached. Jesus Himself said the gospel of the kingdom must go to “all nations” (Matthew 24:14), and that includes the laws of the kingdom.

To reject God’s commandments is to reject His authority. Jesus said clearly: “If you want to enter into life, keep the commandments” (Matthew 19:17). He spoke these words not to Israel alone, but to anyone who desires eternal life.

Therefore, let no one deceive you with empty words. The new covenant is not lawlessness. It is the law of God written on the heart, as Jeremiah prophesied and as Jesus confirmed (Jeremiah 31:33; Hebrews 8:10). True disciples of Christ obey His voice and walk as He walked—in obedience to the Father’s will.